Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[EnDz0n3]

No the movie had no third act written. There might have been a draft with big ideas. Other parts of the story weren't working at all. No chemistry between Cyclops and Jean. Hence the bad screenings and eventually the reshoots.

Yea they're always rewriting scripts for these movies as they go along, that's why Singer loves filming with the X2 writers around, or more recently with Kinberg around. To have "creatives" to bounce ideas against. That's what happened with Famke's death in X2. These movies are always evolving from script to screen.

But Singer--with X-men, X2 and DOFP--made it work. He doesn't leak out info to others to have them parrot it out to the interwebs how he was treated poorly by the studio, even before his movie has come out...

 

[icekid]

I'd love the original Act 3 to be on the eventual Blu-ray. Because why not? It would make a great selling point for the Blu-ray edition to have an alternate cut on it, or at least an alternate third act. They may as well make the most of what they have.

The other films in this franchise should get revisited too for special cuts since this is gonna be the last time these films get touched. They might as well go all out before they just end up gathering dust in Disney's archives.

Maybe, maybe not. If it’s a success in the BO we likely won’t see it. If it performs what it’s tracking, we might. It’s a toss up really.

World War Z comes to mind as another film’s that had the entire third act scrapped and reshot for something entirely different. That act never saw the light of day outside of one shot from it taken out of context and used in the ending montage.

In the recent TV spot someone posted above.

She seems to be teaching a science class and causing planet models to float telekinetically. And she seems to be giving an inspirational speech.

I'm curious as to where it falls in the films aswell.

She seems stable. So I don't feel it post-space mission.

And I'm unclear if it can occur before the space mission. I know there is is "suit up" sequence before the head off. Do they possibly have them all being summoned from their classes.

I think it would be a good opening scene for Jean. Establishing her as a kind teacher and the foreshadowing of her "controlling the solar system".

I would love it if there was a scene where they’re pulled from their classes for the space mission, however the audio is from something else entirely and just edited to sync with the second of the mouth moving there. It’s happened in other various shots throughout the campaign.

 

[Nadia]

I'd love the original Act 3 to be on the eventual Blu-ray. Because why not? It would make a great selling point for the Blu-ray edition to have an alternate cut on it, or at least an alternate third act. They may as well make the most of what they have.

The other films in this franchise should get revisited too for special cuts since this is gonna be the last time these films get touched. They might as well go all out before they just end up gathering dust in Disney's archives.

I wouldn't mind an alternative cut but I don't know how likley it is.

The rogue cut was basically an extended edition with deleted scenes added in (and some minor alterations for rogue presence).

A whole new third act would require a lot of CGI to be completed (to be fair we don't know how far along it was).

The benefit is that it does seem likley the new third act simply replaced the orginal at a particular point (and no huge alterations were made to the first and second act outside Chastain motivations): it seems like all the xmen are captured leading to the train fight, whereas the original has Scott, Jean and Xavier escaped leading to the orginal UN third act.

Another benefit is it the end of the series. Unlike with "release the Snyder Cut" there is no pressure to maintain a front for future films.


Ultimately, I think it will come down how far along the CGI was in orginal third act and if there is benefit of paying for it.

 

[Nadia]

M

I would love it if there was a scene where they’re pulled from their classes for the space mission, however the audio is from something else entirely and just edited to sync with the second of the mouth loving there. It’s happened in other various shots throughout the campaign.

I think it could only be before the space mission or after but before the forest party, simply because she is teaching a class.

I hesitate to say before the space mission because that seems to be largely unchanged since the showed it last October, and I haven't seen any mention of Jean teaching a class.

But (and I haven't seen the film ) I feel after the space mission she would be shaken and begin to be unstable making her unable to teach a class.

As instated above I think it would be a could introduction to a Jean in the film. It shows time has passed as she is a teacher, she is compassionate, etc.

 

[carpenter82]

Maybe, maybe not. If it’s a success in the BO we likely won’t see it. If it performs what it’s tracking, we might. It’s a toss up really.

World War Z comes to mind as another film’s that had the entire third act scrapped and reshot for something entirely different. That act never saw the light of day outside of one shot from it taken out of context and used in the ending montage.



I would love it if there was a scene where they’re pulled from their classes for the space mission, however the audio is from something else entirely and just edited to sync with the second of the mouth moving there. It’s happened in other various shots throughout the campaign.

Rogue One's third act was also reshot. That was more of an insult since the original third act was heavily used to market the film.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Your scathing hatred of Kinberg is kind of awe-inspiring, even if I don't agree.

Then you're awed way too easily. At least I'm on-topic, talking about this film's writer/producer/director. What are you doing? Talking smack about other users? Last time I checked that wasn't allowed.

What's awe-inspiring is that Kinberg is Hollywood's go-to script-doctor. How does a Hollywood exec look at Kinberg's movies and say "This is our guy!"

According to THR, Kinberg made $8 million for each of his X-Men scripts (Apocalypse and Days of Future Past) in addition to $350,000 a week to punch up big budget scripts.

He actually makes more than his movies' stars!

 

[Cktopl33]

No the movie had no third act written. There might have been a draft with big ideas. Other parts of the story weren't working at all. No chemistry between Cyclops and Jean. Hence the bad screenings and eventually the reshoots.

Yea they're always rewriting scripts for these movies as they go along, that's why Singer loves filming with the X2 writers around, or more recently with Kinberg around. To have "creatives" to bounce ideas against. That's what happened with Famke's death in X2. These movies are always evolving from script to screen.

But Singer--with X-men, X2 and DOFP--made it work. He doesn't leak out info to others to have them parrot it out to the interwebs how he was treated poorly by the studio, even before his movie has come out...

The third act that was written as a different story.....was BEFORE filming started and scrapped when production began. That's why the third act that was originally shot (then replaced)....was not well planned. It was never in the script....because it was not part of their idea for the story. Self explanatory. The team were already doing the "big ideas" phase during post production on Apocalypse, not at the start of shooting Dark Phoenix.

Singer sure didn't make "it" work with Apocalypse. And others have 'leaked out info'.....except it's regarding his shenanigans during production which has now caught up to him professionally.

 

[EnDz0n3]

The third act that was written as a different story.....was BEFORE filming started and scrapped when production began. That's why the third act that was originally shot (then replaced)....was not well planned. It was never in the script....because it was not part of their idea for the story. Self explanatory. The team were already doing the "big ideas" phase during post production on Apocalypse, not at the start of shooting Dark Phoenix.

Others in similar situations have made it work. If Kinberg can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

And if you're Kinberg and the reason you want to direct is because JLaw told you she would only return if you directed, then that's a bigger issue.

Singer sure didn't make "it" work with Apocalypse. And others have 'leaked out info'.....except it's regarding his shenanigans during production which has now caught up to him professionally.

So this proves what? That Kinberg, not having a proper third act and making it up as he went along for Dark Phoenix, has all the potential to be bad as well? Kudos.

 

[icekid]

I think it could only be before the space mission or after but before the forest party, simply because she is teaching a class.

I hesitate to say before the space mission because that seems to be largely unchanged since the showed it last October, and I haven't seen any mention of Jean teaching a class.

But (and I haven't seen the film ) I feel after the space mission she would be shaken and begin to be unstable making her unable to teach a class.

As instated above I think it would be a could introduction to a Jean in the film. It shows time has passed as she is a teacher, she is compassionate, etc.

Can’t be after* the space mission.

Spoiler

Xavier cancels classes for the rest of the day so they can relax and celebrate when they arrive back and are greeted by the cheering students. The space mission scenes shown at NYCC we’re still edited and still after the first test screenings. I got confirmation that it is from before the space mission. Sophie is also not wearing a wig so it wasn’t a reshoot scene. Not sure if it’s in the final cut though. Remember the mall scene was still in apocalypse’s tv spots.

 

[JP]

There's really no way to spin this.

 

[icekid]

Rogue One's third act was also reshot. That was more of an insult since the original third act was heavily used to market the film.

I simply can’t get into Star Wars with the ONLY exception being that movie, which I loved. I didn’t know that, I have to look into what that third act was.

 

[Charzhin0]

Release the Kinberg cut!!1

 

[EnDz0n3]

There's really no way to spin this.

"Hold my beer."

 

[Cktopl33]

Others in similar situations have made it work. If Kinberg can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

It don't know yet if the final output work or not. Kinberg still went through with everything he was suppose to do. It's not like he quit.

And if you're Kinberg and the reason you want to direct is because JLaw told you she would only return if you directed, then that's a bigger issue.

I believe he said he wanted to direct because he couldn't see anyone else shooting his script. Of course, that was before the script had to change, but still....

So this proves what? That Kinberg, not having a proper third act and making it up as he went along for Dark Phoenix, has all the potential to be bad as well? Kudos.

It proves that you like to leave out what doesn't work if it doesn't fit your narrative. That's why you avoided mentioning the worst film of the ensemble directed by Singer while focusing only on the others as an example of him making "it" work.

Kinberg not having a proper third act during principle photography...obviously was the result of the studio not giving him time to make one after derailing his initial plan. I don't know what the potential outcome will be since I haven't seen the final product. I don't know what will be in the final cut.

 

[Cktopl33]

Can’t be before the space mission.

I wonder if there were other scenes like this that might make it in the final cut that possibly weren't screened previously.

 

[icekid]

There's really no way to spin this.

Yeah no reaction is a reaction and ain’t a good one.

 

[Nadia]

Can’t be before the space mission.

Spoiler

Xavier cancels classes for the rest of the day so they can relax and celebrate when they arrive back and are greeted by the cheering students. The space mission scenes shown at NYCC we’re still edited and still after the first test screenings. I got confirmation that it is from before the space mission. Sophie is also not wearing a wig so it wasn’t a reshoot scene. Not sure if it’s in the final cut though. Remember the mall scene was still in apocalypse’s tv spots.

I forgot about the situation if the classes after the mission.

It must be before the mission then. I guess they open with Jean when we are introduced to Xaveirs school in the film, which does make sense.

I think it will likley be in the final cut. It seems strange to include a new shots of scene (they don't intend to use) this late in the marketing. Unlike with something like IW it's not a huge misdirect.
Plus (while admittedly I doubt it was time consuming) the CGI on the solar system looks finished

 

[EnDz0n3]

Someone whose narrative about the goings-on behind the scenes of this movie, painting Kinberg as some lower-tier "Yes" man employee that is just following orders and is having things done to him and/or for him shouldn't be calling out others for "leaving out" facts.

Kinberg made $8Mil each for DOFP and Apocalypse. He's not some coffee boy.

Also, it's princiPAL photography.

 

[icekid]

I forgot about the situation if the classes after the mission.

It must be before the mission then. I guess they open with Jean when we are introduced to Xaveirs school in the film, which does make sense.

I think it will likley be in the final cut. It seems strange to include a new shots of scene (they don't intend to use) this late in the marketing. Unlike with something like IW it's not a huge misdirect.
Plus (while admittedly I doubt it was time consuming) the CGI on the solar system looks finished

Whoops I meant can’t be after, but you picked up on that. I hope it’s in, but it’s not uncommon to use scenes that won’t be in the final cut this close to release. Remember Apocalypse’s tv spot with Nightcrawler’s brain freeze?

 

[JP]

Disney is in control now and we know how Disney works. They released a stellar new poser, they've cut some pretty great tv spots that are better than any of the three FOX trailers. They're even doing the standard Marvel.com live stream of the premiere red carpet.

They also love social media reactions, and if they think a film is good they want the world to know. A day and date embargo lift with the UK/France opening day is not a good sign.

 

[icekid]

Unfortunately. I wonder what happened between what I saw and now and if Disney coming aboard was too late in the process to salvage it.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I wonder if they'll get the same hosts from marvel.com interviewing the Dark Phoenix cast for the red carpet. Those hosts are kinda awkward and it'll be fun to sit thru.

 

[Cktopl33]

Someone whose narrative about the goings-on behind the scenes of this movie, painting Kinberg as some lower-tier "Yes" man employee that is just following orders and is having things done to him and/or for him shouldn't be calling out others for "leaving out" facts.

Everybody follow the orders of the studio and everybody is a "yes" man to the studio, including Kevin Feige who's the president of Marvel Studios at Disney. The difference is in the top people making the decisions about the movies the studio releases. Kinberg himself said even he couldn't get any memorabilia from films he's worked on when an interviewer assumed just because he's the director he has the power to do that (despite all the money he made from the films). Kinberg directly stated the studio owns all of that and keep it locked away on a studio lot. So, again.....studios/studio executives are at the top of the chain and decide the course for a project.

 

[Cktopl33]

Unfortunately. I wonder what happened between what I saw and now and if Disney coming aboard was too late in the process to salvage it.

The film appear to be heavily edited. I wonder to what extent that will play in the outcome of this movie.

 

[carpenter82]

Unfortunately. I wonder what happened between what I saw and now and if Disney coming aboard was too late in the process to salvage it.
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Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic but the tweet doesn't read like a confirmation one way or the other.