Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Tymminator]

As someone who was reading the issues as they came out back in 7th/8th grade, the Dark Phoenix saga worked so well because you were following Jean Grey for several years before hand and in that time you watched her become the Phoenix, then eventually Dark Phoenix and you watched this build after considerable time. Even if you choose to retell that story, IMO it is one that should be built over time and investment.

 

[Aurakles]

A good film can make you care about a brand new character in minutes.
Although whether this will be a good film is up for debate.

 

[Jh7058622]

To be fair when the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga happened in TAS I did not really care for Jean at all. She was at best a background character. The Phoenix and Dark Phoenix saga are what made me care about her. If the film with two hours and thirty minutes can do what the TV show did in about three hours and some change I'll be satisfied.

 

[The Guard]

As someone who was reading the issues as they came out back in 7th/8th grade, the Dark Phoenix saga worked so well because you were following Jean Grey for several years before hand and in that time you watched her become the Phoenix, then eventually Dark Phoenix and you watched this build after considerable time. Even if you choose to retell that story, IMO it is one that should be built over time and investment.

This isn’t a comic book series...it’s a movie franchise. And Jean has been built up over time. Audiences have, in theory gotten to know Jean over multiple films, including the first two X-films. Beyond that, plenty of movies make people care about a character in a single film, let alone two films in the newer franchise counting Apocalypse.

 

[Tymminator]

This isn’t a comic book series...it’s a movie franchise. And Jean has been built up over time. Audiences have, in theory gotten to know Jean over multiple films, including the first two X-films. Beyond that, plenty of movies make people care about a character in a single film, let alone two films in the newer franchise counting Apocalypse.

(New) Jean in my opinion has not been built up much at all, if she works for you that’s nice, but for me except for what I choose to fill in for her, I’m not nessesariy invested, especially since (new)Jean has only really been in one previous movie. Although it obvious it’s a movie series and not a comic series, the principle is the same. It’s why people are invested in Logan, both Magento’s, and both Prof X’s, we have watched enough of them to be invested.

 

[SumT]

old movies have nothing to do with Sophie's version.

audience has to care about the actor in character, so it doesnt matter if Famke appeared in 3 movies 12 years ago. Audience has short memory and Famke was famke, and sophie is sophie. Its not connected in general viewer's minds. To expect that is a bit naive.

if XMA had a small boxoffice, most new viewers will probably watch Sophie's Jean for the first time next year, not in 2006 lol, neither in 2016.

so yeah, a long presence on a franchise leads to a bigger impact on the audience. thats common sense. And of course we can care about a character in one movie, but thats not the exact topic we are discussing. Its about the long journey of a good girl gone bad. And regarding this, the longer the audience has been watching you in character, the more they will feel your pain and the x-men pain.

the sad thing is most of general audience worldwide, as of right now, doesnt care about young Jean. mostly because most havent even watched her first movie! lol.

edited: and yeah, good example that of Logan. The impact of that movie on the fans/general viewers wouldnt have been the same if Hugh just got introduced in 2016. We are talking about the end of a 17 years old journey. Most viewers have been watching Hugh's logan for 17 years. thats why the impact of that movie was so heavy, same with Patrick's Charles end and that final scene of the 'X' with X23 leaving with her new friends. It was a real dramatic height. A lot.

We just cant expect the same impact with Sophie's second movie, lol. Lets be serious. even if Kinberg was Ridley Scott/Tarantino level, which as of right now, he is not

We gotta be realistic, Dark phoenix wont have that level of impact. its just not the same.

 

[GuestStar2004]

old movies have nothing to do with Sophie's version.

audience has to care about the actor in character, so it doesnt matter if Famke appeared in 3 movies 12 years ago. Audience has short memory and Famke was famke, and sophie is sophie. Its not connected in general viewer's minds. To expect that is a bit naive.

The audience know who Jean grey is by now, she is not a unknown character to the movie going audience and Famkes version of Jean is still within the same universe.

No one is gonna look at jean like they don't know who she is. yeah it perhaps may have been preferred to have a drawn out mid 5 film series phoenix story, but most of the audience won't be shocked to find out jean is the phoenix... impact would be waiting for that moment to happen every step of the way

We gotta be realistic, Dark phoenix wont have that level of impact. its just not the same.

It may not, but it certainly can.

It doesn't matter how long you known characters. you don't need multiple films to connect with a character.

Its like arguing we need to see Tom hollands spider-mans origin story because him just being there with his powers with no uncle ben stuff just give you less reason to care about why he is doing anything.

 

[GuestStar2004]

To be fair when the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix Saga happened in TAS I did not really care for Jean at all. She was at best a background character. The Phoenix and Dark Phoenix saga are what made me care about her. If the film with two hours and thirty minutes can do what the TV show did in about three hours and some change I'll be satisfied.

I always thought of jean as a boring character in TAS. infact i was always really puzzled what the attraction was with Wolverine lusting over her.

Although nothing against TAS as i really liked the show growing up but yeah Jean never really stood out to me.

I think many prefer to feel like they went on a long journey with a character before they hit that climatic point but you really do not need it. you didn't need it with X23 and Logan and honestly i felt the connection there more with them by the end then i did Logan and Xavier even after 17 years.

 

[Frankeh]

(New) Jean in my opinion has not been built up much at all, if she works for you that’s nice, but for me except for what I choose to fill in for her, I’m not nessesariy invested, especially since (new)Jean has only really been in one previous movie. Although it obvious it’s a movie series and not a comic series, the principle is the same. It’s why people are invested in Logan, both Magento’s, and both Prof X’s, we have watched enough of them to be invested.

Yeah I've never bought this narrative that people will associate Famke's Jean with Sophie Turner's as one in same.

The last time Famke actually had a sizable role in these movies was over a decade ago. McAvoy made me care about Xavier all over again in FC by establishing him as a character on his own, not because I thought about Stewart's Xavier. Dark Phoenix is not a plot device like the sentinel future in DOFP, it is a turning point for a character so it definitely needs build up.

 

[Cktopl33]

You don't need multiple movies or the concept of a cinematic universe to get the audience to care about a character in a film. You should be able to do it in one movie. Movies have been doing that for decades. The essence of the plot of the script is to show how the main character changes by the end of the film. The fact that they're titling this movie on the central character of the story (like they did with Logan) instead of an x-men ensemble piece might better help focus the story on her transformation. The question is....will fans not like it if it's not like an avengers movie packed full of multiple character points?

The synopsis for the film thus far keep the story focus on Jean and the x-men having to deal with the issue of her becoming corrupt with fairly high stakes of her life and the lives of the world:

Jean Grey begins to develop incredible powers that corrupt and turn her into a Dark Phoenix. Now the X-Men will have to decide if the life of a team member is worth more than all the people living in the world.

Contrast that with the Last Stand's synopsis centered on the cure:

An all-out war looms when the discovery of a cure for mutations draws a line between the followers of Charles Xavier and those of Magneto.

Days of Future Past synopsis focused on changing history and preventing a significant event with high stakes. Apocalypse synopsis is almost similar to First Class in that the x-men are trying to stop a dictator in a sense from world domination.

 

[itsrivv]

I think you can obviously create a strong story for the Dark Phoenix in a single film but the problem for me is that it is literally X-Men's biggest storyline. One of the biggest in comic book history. It deserves to be set up properly.

Infinity War would have been a great film solely for joining so many characters on screen so seamlessly while being thrilling and entertaining, but what made audiences react are the emotional connections they have to these characters that have been growing for years.

I think some of you are overestimating the current general public's familiarity with the X-Men characters right now. I would say it's popularity is at a low that it hasn't been in quite some time. Kids don't care, there is no TV show or Xmen toys or merch being churned out by Marvel like for Avengers. Teens who aren't fans of the franchise who see this movie are not going to remember Famke's Jean Grey. Sophie Turner and Tye Sheridan's Jean/Cyclops relationship didn't even begin in Apocalypse so they not only need to make the weight of why her becoming Dark Phoenix is tragic, they also need to make the audience quickly care about and believe Jean and Scott have been in love off screen for 10 years.

Not saying it is impossible, it just deserves more. Which is why from the start I thought it was pretty crazy they were jumping right into DP after just assembling the main team again. One more film in between where the X-Men grow and work as a team could have bridged the gap and set up the story in my opinion.

 

[X-Maniac]

You don't need multiple movies or the concept of a cinematic universe to get the audience to care about a character in a film. You should be able to do it in one movie. Movies have been doing that for decades. The essence of the plot of the script is to show how the main character changes by the end of the film. The fact that they're titling this movie on the central character of the story (like they did with Logan) instead of an x-men ensemble piece might better help focus the story on her transformation. The question is....will fans not like it if it's not like an avengers movie packed full of multiple character points?

I think it's not that people are expecting multiple character points, but expecting that the characters included have a viewpoint and a purpose, expressed not just through actions but through dialogue that shows personality and emotion.

Let's hear what Storm, Nightcrawler, Quicksilver, etc, have to say on the matter of Jean losing control.

 

[SumT]

some fans still dont understand the point, it seems lol.

constantly talking about avengers, or marvel this, or shading the concept of cinematic universe or this or that.

What about Kinberg not failing to the x-men for once? apparently the work he has done in 10 years wasting x-men rigth and left is not a topic of discussion

or the fact that instead of exploring x-men introduced in the previous movie, like Angel, Psylocke and Jubilee, he just dropped all of them. That basically tells us that he cant handle the x-men if he needs to drop Xmen to do "justice" to Dark Phoenix. if you cant handle 7-8 x-men, then you dont have the talent for this property.

go and write more star wars cartoons or something, if you are good at that.

 

[itsrivv]

some fans still dont understand the point, it seems lol.

constantly talking about avengers, or marvel this, or shading the concept of cinematic universe or this or that.

What about Kinberg not failing to the x-men for once? apparently the work he has done in 10 years wasting x-men rigth and left is not a topic of discussion

or the fact that instead of exploring x-men introduced in the previous movie, like Angel, Psylocke and Jubilee, he just dropped all of them. That basically tells us that he cant handle the x-men if he needs to drop Xmen to do "justice" to Dark Phoenix. if you cant handle 7-8 x-men, then you dont have the talent for this property.

I disagree. If this is a movie about Dark Phoenix I really don't care about Angel, Psylocke or Jubilee for this film. I agree that a team movie with X-Men working together and kicking ass is indeed what they should have done but since they're doing Dark Phoenix, I don't need a mini story arc about Psylocke. As it's been established clearly on this last page, there's been little set up for this storyline and a bunch of subplots about characters that have basically just been moving props up to this point wouldn't strengthen the film.

 

[EnDz0n3]

“Jean Grey begins to develop incredible powers that corrupt and turn her into a Dark Phoenix. Now the X-Men will have to decide if the life of a team member is worth more than all the people living in the world.”

Wait...is that the official premise of the film? That’s so badly written, and just plain lazy.

“...turn her into a Dark Phoenix.”

“...life of a team member is worth more than all the people living in the world.”

 

[JP]

Doubtful. They have people who get paid to write those, you know.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Thought so.

So why is Cktopl quoting it as if it was official?

 

[Cktopl33]

Because that's the information about the film reveal thus far in the First Look coming from an official source, which is slightly longer (the quote is just the IMDb version). That's why I said thus far before the quote. You have to READ Endzo....

 

[icekid]

Unfortunately and officially, there hasn’t been a sypnosis to accompany marketing materials released by the studio. All that exists is the official Mavel sypnosis of the Dark Phoenix Saga, as in the comic, either exactly (see the films announcement) or paraphrasing, which the quote seems to be the latter.

Gathered together by Professor Charles Xavier to protect a world that fears and hates them, the X-Men had fought many battles, been on adventures that spanned galaxies, grappled enemies of limitless might, but none of this could prepare them for the most shocking struggle they would ever face. One of their own members, Jean Grey, has gained power beyond all comprehension, and that power has corrupted her absolutely! Now they must decide if the life of the woman they cherish is worth the existence of the entire universe.

We likely won’t get an official studio released sypnosis until the first trailer and poster and hey haven’t been in a hurry to release one because tbh the title says it all if you know what the X-Men are.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Edit

 

[Erik Lensherr]

We need a full trailer now. It gets so boring here -.-'

 

[Cktopl33]

Unfortunately and officially, there hasn’t been a sypnosis to accompany marketing materials released by the studio. All that exists is the official Mavel sypnosis of the Dark Phoenix Saga, as in the comic, either exactly (see the films announcement) or paraphrasing, which the quote seems to be the latter.


We likely won’t get an official studio released sypnosis until the first trailer and poster and hey haven’t been in a hurry to release one because tbh the title says it all if you know what the X-Men are.

This is part of the First Look for the film which is officially released material thus far:

Set in 1992, about 10 years after the events of last year’s X-Men: Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix opens with the X-Men, including Mystique (Jennifer Lawrence), Beast (Nicholas Hoult), Storm (Alexandra Shipp), Nightcrawler (Kodi Smit-McPhee), and Quicksilver (Evan Peters), in a new, unexpected role: national heroes. Charles Xavier (James McAvoy) even lands on the cover of Time magazine. But his growing ego puts the team at risk. “Pride is starting to get the better of him, and he is pushing the X-Men to more extreme missions,” Kinberg says. After they’re dispatched to space for a rescue mission, a solar flare hits the X-Jet and the surge of energy ignites a malevolent, power-hungry new force within Jean (Game of Thrones’ Sophie Turner)— the Phoenix.

Based on that, it's suppose to have the series biggest set pieces, and the most sinister somber in the series. It states in a quote what is likely the central thematic question of the film:

“What happens when the person you love the most falls into darkness?”

“There’s a lot of sacrifice and a lot of suffering.” The movie becomes a fight for Jean’s soul as Phoenix threatens to overtake her mind and divide the X-Men, particularly Jean and her mentor, Charles.

 

[Alessia]

So Kodi's stuntman is departing for Montreal tomorrow morning for 7 weeks of reshoots according to his ig story. Whatever happened to only two weeks of reshoots?

 

[icekid]

This is part of the First Look for the film which is officially released material thus of this far

Yeah but that’s more of like a summary than a sypnosis and was created by the article writers than the studio, but based on information they learned from the cast and crew. Still very different that he “a Dark Phoenix” quote which I spotted on iMDB.

So Kodi's stuntman is departing for Montreal tomorrow morning for 7 weeks of reshoots according to his ig story. Whatever happened to only two weeks of reshoots?

I also saw the video Jesse Le Flair posted but the obvious is that he’s a stunt performer, their job takes much longer than the actors. He will likely be learning, practicing and mastering his new choreography for 2-3 weeks before they head before the cameras as they’re beefing up the 3rd act action. That’s literally their life. Also, he’s said he’s gone for 7 weeks because of reshoots not doing reshoots for 7 weeks.That confirms nothing really but solidified the 2 week reshoots. Again, span vs duration.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

So Kodi's stuntman is departing for Montreal tomorrow morning for 7 weeks of reshoots according to his ig story. Whatever happened to only two weeks of reshoots?

two weeks reshoots in 7 weeks.