Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Xeno]

Oh.....ok.....so......what is it then, Endzo?

It's not his filmography we have to defend. His filmography is predominately collaboration. No one has seen what his directing style is yet. This is the first x-men movie written by a singular writer and directed under a singular vision. And again, looking at filmography isn't a testament to how well a film will turn out. Everyone thought Bryan Singer would do great with Apocalypse based on his filmography.....but that didn't turn out so well (critically worse than X3 and no one expected such a thing possible!) And he directed several x-men films! That's what you have to defend: How is it possible that a seasoned director, who had experience directing these movies, put out a film with such low quality? I gave Singer a shot. Now I'm giving Kinberg a shot.

Kinberg has the sole credit for the Apocalypse screenplay. He is responsible for the awful dialog and characterization as well as the lackluster action set pieces. There is no way to absolve Kinberg of the blame for that film's utter failure.

 

[Aximili86]

Personal life or no (which he's been cleared on every accusation thus far, mind you), Singer's a million times the director anyone else who's helmed an X-Men movie is. Mangold's right up there though.

Yeah, X2 & DoFP don't give anything & everthing in the superhero movie genre a run for their money. Nahhh, preposterous.

I get the concerns over his personal behavior, but jesus.

 

[BaronZemo]

Singer's version is outdated. The grounded approach worked in the early 2000s but that was 20 years ago. The genre can go crazy and be taken seriously. Singer was always afraid of the more "comicbooky" elements of a property that was always comic-booky. I'm glad X1 nd 2 happened but the franchise never evolved. That's why it's considered an afterthought and most people can't wait for it to end.

When an unannounced MCU X-men movie has more anticipation than your ANNOUNCED X-MEN movie that comes out early next year, then there is a problem with your franchise.

 

[Alison Blaire]

X2 is the best Xmen.With The best Cast.Love that film!

 

[1627523]

Singer's version is outdated. The grounded approach worked in the early 2000s but that was 20 years ago. The genre can go crazy and be taken seriously. Singer was always afraid of the more "comicbooky" elements of a property that was always comic-booky. I'm glad X1 nd 2 happened but the franchise never evolved. That's why it's considered an afterthought and most people can't wait for it to end.

When an unannounced MCU X-men movie has more anticipation than your ANNOUNCED X-MEN movie that comes out early next year, then there is a problem with your franchise.

DOFP is one of the best comic book films of all time. His approach can still define telly work in modern times. In the same year as the "comic booky GOTG" came out people were saying DOFP was the best comic film of the year. Singer's least grounded x-men movie APOCALYPSE is the one that got panned. Singer's signature vision wasn't in APOCALYPSE that much compared to other films, it looked like other generic CBMS like Age of Ultron and Man of Steel rather than standing out. Grounded movies can still work today easily and i think its absolutely false to say otherwise since Logan came out in the same year as GOTG vol 2 and Thor Ragnarok, which are both filled with comic book craziness, and turned out to be miles ahead of all of them, so What's most important is writing, themes, and characters if all of them are good than you can never be outdated.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Singer's version is outdated. The grounded approach worked in the early 2000s but that was 20 years ago. The genre can go crazy and be taken seriously.

Its not outdated, infact the genre will keep changing depending on what people react well too and there is only so much comicbooky can go on before someone released a film like Logan and people said hey this is a breath of fresh air.

[When an unannounced MCU X-men movie has more anticipation than your ANNOUNCED X-MEN movie that comes out early next year, then there is a problem with your franchise.

Thats always been the case. no one wants less, everyone wants more. and the idea of mixing marvel characters is always gonna be this attractive prospect.

thats why cross overs are so gimmicky, because it takes things you never thought you would see together... and puts them together

Kinberg has the sole credit for the Apocalypse screenplay. He is responsible for the awful dialog and characterization as well as the lackluster action set pieces. There is no way to absolve Kinberg of the blame for that film's utter failure.

Surely the set pieces actually go to the director? to which actually there was quite alot of action filmed apparently but cut out. although as someone pointed i don't think Singer is an action director as even the stand out quicksilver scene in DOFP wasn't filmed by him.

As for the script, well it sounds like they were still putting the script together through even the filming of the film as things were being changed like quicksilver revealing to magneto he was his son and even on the day of shooting singer was coming up with ideas that would then go into the script or discussed with kinberg and the actors.

Does that fully change anything? i dunno. in the long run yeah Kinberg should get half the blame, but then he should also get half the blame for the success of DOFP.

would rather talk about abstract things like hope and keeping positive and crossing fingers?

Because thats the normal reaction to have when you want a film to hopefully be good. if you are just negative and crash on everyone who is being positive it just makes it appear that you don't want the film to be good.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[SumT]

Kinberg has the sole credit for the Apocalypse screenplay. He is responsible for the awful dialog and characterization as well as the lackluster action set pieces. There is no way to absolve Kinberg of the blame for that film's utter failure.

preach.

not to mention that he is the biggest producer of the franchise right now, so he has 2 reasons to blame him: the script and letting that script/movie approach to continue until the release date.

but a mediocre writer is unable to recognize a mediocre work from his producer point of view, so its like an impossible mission

 

[fobi]

A chess board, thats a cool nod to X1.

 

[GuestStar2004]

but a mediocre writer is unable to recognize a mediocre work from his producer point of view, so its like an impossible mission

Well if you look at him as a producer then you have to count Logan and Deadpool, which means he should get credit for that right?

Now personally i don't think thats how the producing works for FOX movies. i think alot of the producing is early ideas and keeping the personal freedom to it's creative teams with some things needing to be green lit by fox. Although kinberg was one of the people pushing for fox to make deadpool r-rated, which they really didn't want to do and only agreed as long as it was made for a minimal 50 million.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

X1, X2 & even X3 have some good action bits but like the one user said that was early 2000s, CBM have evolved since then. DOFP was a great film however it still failed to capture the essence of the X-Men genre, colored costumes and huge sentinels. I get Halle was pregnant but if Marvel could cgi Scarlet’s head into her (many) stunt doubles when she was pregnant then why not Fox? I really wanting Storm to be in the air taking out sentinels!!

In terms of action nowadays Marvel keeps stepping it up. So as movie director producers writers you have to be checking out what the competitors are doing and try to rival. It still bugs me that Apocalypse was not mo-cap and that the horsemen didn’t do any battle/destruction until the final battle. We all know the X-Men can let loose with there powers and fighting ability so its long overdue that we get a film where the X-Men are going all out! I want that TAS series feel when the X-Men come out of the jet ready to protect and fight.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

I guess what I’m trying to say is that some of the movies are good while others not so good. However are any of the movies epic in terms of plot characters and action? Now some of us may disagree for me X2 will always be epic because of what it set up the freaking Phoenix! Back in 03 people were like omg Jean is the Phoenix, did you see X2, I can’t wait for X3, etc. That particular film had people talking and waiting on pins and needles for X3 and sadly it didn’t deliver on what could have been a movie for future superheroe movies to rival and look at as inspiration going forward. For me my issues is that a lot of the characters are forgettable; Rogue, Scott, Deathstrike, etc they had no story, action scenes or evolution in their characters just background. What I really want from this film is to see the X-Men shine, come together as a team and everyone has their moment I truly want an epic X-Men that will make us miss the franchise that started it all.

 

[SumT]

Well if you look at him as a producer then you have to count Logan and Deadpool, which means he should get credit for that right?

Now personally i don't think thats how the producing works for FOX movies. i think alot of it goes to FOX for go ahead first and foremost. Although Kinberg was one of the people pushing FOX to make Deadpool R-rated and they really did not want to do that and only accepted aslong as it was made on a 50 million budget.

of course he is a great supporter as a producer, and can convince Fox of certain things. But we are talking about accepting his own scripts. If he can see the great quality of Logan script, why cant he recognize the lower quality of his own movies?

there is where the problem exists, mon ami. Not if he has produced good movies, we all know he has. Thats not the topic. We care about the x-men movies, not if he produced a great Agatha Christie adaptation.

 

[itsrivv]

Is Fassbender strongly against dying his hair gray or something?? Like they have temporary ones you just rub in your hair and look believable. Its such a small but easy thing to do, it just bothers me XD

 

[Frankeh]

Playing chess again? B o r i n g.

 

[SumT]

of couse Kinberg would repeat the same beats over and over

 

[Crimson99]

I like the chess nod as it shows how the franchise is coming full circle and the grand finale is near.

As for action Xmen Apocalypse spent too much time using action trying to propel the story ala disaster flick and it faltered. The only battle that felt dynamic in Xmen Apocalypse somewhat was Psylocke vs Beast. All the other action sequences were people standing around and reacting which runs counter to how X2 action was shot where opponents were literally running at each other. X2 was more realistic back and forth action sequences so yeah even Singer lost his mojo with Xmen Apocalypse.

DoFP is interesting in that it really did take risks with power displays and it payed off. The same can not be said though with Xmen Apocalypse as it was regression to what we saw with Xmen to kick start the franchise. As much as I love the original Xmen film it definitely shows its age when most action sequences people are standing around for something. Compare that to the superheroes on CW or latest comic book films and it shows that the genre has changed drastically since then.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The chess stuff is boring, they should be on VR headsets. much cooler!

 

[icekid]

A chess board, thats a cool nod to X1.

It’s like there a golden rule. If Xavier and Magneto don’t play a game of chess together, it’s going to suck.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Because thats the normal reaction to have when you want a film to hopefully be good. if you are just negative and crash on everyone who is being positive it just makes it appear that you don't want the film to be good.

It’s not about wanting the film to fail, it’s about being realistic and taking what’s happened before in order to make an educated guess about what comes next.

When your writer is the same one who wrote X3, Fant4stic and Apocalypse, then good luck. Yes he was also involved in DOFP but the odds are not in your favour.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It’s not about wanting the film to fail, it’s about being realistic and taking what’s happened before in order to make an educated guess about what comes next.

Realistically no one can predict how the film will turn out. and if someone is overly keen to feel they can its almost like that person is just waiting for it to be bad.

And if you are waiting for it to be bad then you was never really hoping it might be good in the first place.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Realistically no one can predict how the film will turn out.

I just gave you examples of how one can predict how something will turn out based on its writer/director. You refusing to see that is not my problem.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I just gave you examples of how one can predict how something will turn out based on its writer/director. You refusing to see that is not my problem.

Your problem seems less about what you are getting and more about who you are getting it from.

 

[SumT]

I just gave you examples of how one can predict how something will turn out based on its writer/director. You refusing to see that is not my problem.

Its called statistics, some people dont understand the concept.
If 90% of the study's subjects gave a negative response, the same study with the same elements a year later will likely end with the same answer.

apply this to a movie writer, if 90% of your movies are mediocre/badly reviewed, your next project will likely be mediocre too. There is around a 10% chance of it being great.

 

[Cktopl33]

Kinberg has the sole credit for the Apocalypse screenplay. He is responsible for the awful dialog and characterization as well as the lackluster action set pieces. There is no way to absolve Kinberg of the blame for that film's utter failure.

He doesn't have sole credit for the story that goes into the screenplay. Apocalypse isn't a "written by" Kinberg film. He is a co-writer on the movie who shares credit with THREE other writers who all have input in the final draft according to the credit given. Bryan Singer was right there from the beginning as the script was created. Action is determined by the director and his stunt crew, who visualize how things will look on screen. This is because what's written in script may not actually unfold the same way once sets are constructed and scenes are planned out around and within the sets. How well an action scene is shot is not determined by the screenwriter and the director has full control to change anything about the script to fit their style. Kinberg isn't absolved from contributing to the film's failure, but the director is responsible for the film's outcome because the director controls all aspects of the film making process, from script to post. Apocalypse's problems didn't only stem from script but also decisions made during production and in post.