Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[X-Maniac]

Even beyond DOFP, Mystique had purpose on "Apocalypse" and she has an even greater purpose on "Dark Phoenix":

1- She is

Spoiler

Kurt's mother

2- She is Xavier's "sister"
3- She is a public mutant hero (since DOFP)
4- She is the co-founder of the "new" X-Men and an X-Man herself
5- She

Spoiler

will sacrifice herself

The role of Mystique in these prequel films has been determined by the studio, the directors and the actress, not by the natural flow of the story.

Singer apparently wanted Mystique in First Class because of her indeterminate age meaning she could well have been around back then, and Vaughn loves women who are naked or half-dressed (every female in First Class is naked - Mystique - or half-naked - Angel Salvadore in her wings reveal scene - or in underwear - Emma Frost and also Moira in the club infiltration scene).

Then First Class underperformed and JLaw won an Oscar (February 2013). Singer had come back, quickly swept away most of First Class (they're mostly dead), made Mystique suddenly more like the Romijn version and the character/actress was given a pivotal role. Vaughn had already wanted the Sentinels to have adaptive capability based on Mystique, which was a cool idea. DoFP started filming in April 2013 so they didn't really have chance to make huge changes in light of JLaw's Oscars win, and she was blue for a lot of the movie.

Then we had X-Men Apocalypse where JLaw put her foot down about the make-up and the studio wanted more Hunger Games appeal with Raven/Katniss as a blonde in a battle-suit. (they even had a scene with Jean doing archery like the Hunger Games). This time they had time to allow for JLaw's Oscars win and she was a big enough deal for make-up demands. She became less and less like Mystique and more and more like JLaw and like Katniss Everdeen.

And of course she did these films while on a three-picture contract signed before her Oscar win, so she wasn't on an Oscar-level star salary.

And now they're bringing her back, giving her a big pay check to make up for the 'pittance' she was paid for the first three films. She more than likely helped Kinberg get the director's gig as a condition of her return. And the story still revolves around her as the mother figure and also because the consequences of her fate help turn Jean to the dark side. Mystique is a large part of the reason for Dark Phoenix.

It's nothing to do with the natural flow of story, and nothing at all to do with the source material. It's because it's JLaw. She is the Wolverine/Jackman of the prequel films.

The Fox X-Men adaptations are vehicles for certain stars, not driven by the original characters. That has been their downfall in many ways.

 

[EnDz0n3]

 

[I Am The Knight]

Oh I didn't know he was in DP.

 

[ciscostudent561]

i meant DP like Dark Phoenix not that vulgar belligerent fool with 2 swords

 

[SumT]

cant wait for Daniel playing alien #4.
hopefully makes the cut, if not, in the bluray deleted scenes.

 

[henzINNIT]

DOFP did a tremendous job with Mystique. Apocalypse did not. Her place in Dark Phoenix is an unfortunate by-product of the preceding film. Killing her off seems like a cheap move to me and I doubt it's going to resonate as intended. I don't buy the character anymore, though I'm glad it's her biting it and not Scott/Charles this time.

 

[X-Maniac]

Oh I didn't know he was in DP.

I think Cudmore's character is the one who rips the door off on the train in the trailer.

The right-hand man of Chastain's character.

I would say that I hope he's playing Gladiator but actually I hope he isn't, so that we can get a full Imperial Guard in the MCU X-Men reboot at some point.

 

[Charzhin0]

Dont care about what Mcu xmen do or dont. If Cudmore is playing Gladiator in DP then I absolutely want to see it

 

[Mutant 77]

The role of Mystique in these prequel films has been determined by the studio, the directors and the actress, not by the natural flow of the story.

It's nothing to do with the natural flow of story, and nothing at all to do with the source material. It's because it's JLaw. She is the Wolverine/Jackman of the prequel films.

The Fox X-Men adaptations are vehicles for certain stars, not driven by the original characters. That has been their downfall in many ways.

Nothing wrong with it. Her Mystique was great, the character-arc was great and the movie were great. The final result is what truly matters.

 

[magneto23]

While i would like an X-men Tv show, from a visual fx perspective I prefer the theater. A GOT like quality in terms of investment would be huge undertaking and gigantic risk. I don't know if I prefer it also because a movie I can watch in 2 hours, a tv series can be at least 10 hours.

Everything is a risk though. GOT has set a new bar for epic scale/spectacle on tv. A huge undertaking, yes. But look how rewarding its been . If they would put that much money and time into an 8-10 hours X-men show every year that'd be fantastic.

 

[carpenter82]

Everything is a risk though. GOT has set a new bar for epic scale/spectacle on tv. A huge undertaking, yes. But look how rewarding its been . If they would put that much money and time into an 8-10 hours X-men show every year that'd be fantastic.

Agreed. Daredevil proved to me that a serious live action superhero series can be awesome. I'd love to see X-Men handled in that format.

 

[Jh7058622]

@Jh7058622 I hate to repeat myself but there’s a 5 year gap between the two actresses (I got the info wrong when I said 3, one is 23, not 24 and the other is 27 but turning 28 the same year), and there’s a 5 (you say 6) year gap between the characters. In the film verse , Storm—an orphan street urchin pick pocket—has been taking care of orphans in Egypt her whole life. Jean, an extremely guarded, loner-type who seemingly is in need of guidance, is also written to be an orphan. They’re practically made for each other.

You *also* want them to have a bond. You’ve said as much. What’s the problem?

I think at the end of the day we do just want the same things it's just how we perceive it that's different. We both want them to be represented the best way possible maybe (hopefully) they will be. In the international trailer it did seem like at least Kurt had a deeper bond with Jean present. He was so regretful when he couldn't help her in the ship.

I hope all of the X-Men have that sadness and panic in when Jean's hope seems lost during that scene at the very least. I want all of them to plead with her during Jean's house scene too.

 

[Charzhin0]

The international trailer played in my Cap .marvel screening, looked so good on the big screen. The music in the trailer is a lot better than the official one, can really feel the intensity building.

 

[X-Maniac]

Dont care about what Mcu xmen do or dont. If Cudmore is playing Gladiator in DP then I absolutely want to see it

It's doubtful, as it would then mean Chastain is playing Lilandra (she stated she isn't, and Kinberg said she's a combo of other characters) and that the aliens are Shi'ar.

We can see in the trailer that Chastain's character is trying to take the Phoenix Force in that battle in the sky so she could be partly modelled on one of the other comic book characters to wield the Phoenix Force, like Diamanda Nero. That sounds a bit too clever for Fox/Kinberg though. I can't believe this film would be shaped by the comics, that's a bit of a sudden shift lol...

 

[X-Maniac]

Nothing wrong with it. Her Mystique was great, the character-arc was great and the movie were great. The final result is what truly matters.

So you're happy that only Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine and Mystique have had arcs and development?
And that Mystique is nothing like the comic book character? And played by a bad actress who quite obviously doesn't even care about the character, and can't even name any of the other X-Men?

Wow, you're very easily pleased if you can accept the poor treatment for Storm, Kurt, Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Cyclops, Emma Frost and so many others. What sort of X-Men fan could be happy with how they've been shoved into the background and not developed?

 

[Nintendo]

Just want to say I saw Captain Marvel last night for the first time at a Movie Tavern (they have Jenga, giant Scrabble, shuffleboard for their arcade), and I was super bummed that the last trailer to play before the movie was Dark Phoenix's...teaser trailer

 

[Manasrepublic]

I posted this in another thread. After seeing and understanding more about how this film is being made makes me really believe that Kinberg is the one to embrace in the future. I hope MCU directors and creative executives in charge of the future operations hire him for his talents, experience, skilled approach, knowledge and extensive investment with these characters to bring the same dark comic accurate flavors and production design to the future films. His logic of the rather bland appearing costumes from Dark Phoenix because they used 80s-90s clothing materials and styles then is simply elegant and classy. He has a highly studious, methodical, and diligent approach to his filmmaking and his design logic and vfx choices excel for that of a first time native director. I hope they carry over his approach to the new set of films.

I think a parallel dimension route would be solid and have them transplanted into the MCU via an alternative transportation method would be most appropriate for continuity purposes. Recasting and redesigning everything seems too extreme and unnecessary. We have the well-produced stock already made in cast, design, and look. Why change it up when people enjoy the flavors and are clearly looking forward to this film? (People were reacting very positively to the trailer that played with the theatrical Captain Marvel film experience

 

[SumT]

Dont care about what Mcu xmen do or dont. If Cudmore is playing Gladiator in DP then I absolutely want to see it

so you want a silent Gladiator with 5 seconds of screentime?
because thats the most you would get from the master Simon Kinberg lol

 

[carpenter82]

Just want to say I saw Captain Marvel last night for the first time at a Movie Tavern (they have Jenga, giant Scrabble, shuffleboard for their arcade), and I was super bummed that the last trailer to play before the movie was Dark Phoenix's...teaser trailer

Lame

 

[carpenter82]

The international trailer played in my Cap .marvel screening, looked so good on the big screen. The music in the trailer is a lot better than the official one, can really feel the intensity building.

Lucky. I'm in the states so I don't think I'll be able to see that one on the big screen.

 

[carpenter82]

I posted this in another thread. After seeing and understanding more about how this film is being made makes me really believe that Kinberg is the one to embrace in the future. I hope MCU directors and creative executives in charge of the future operations hire him for his talents, experience, skilled approach, knowledge and extensive investment with these characters to bring the same dark comic accurate flavors and production design to the future films. His logic of the rather bland appearing costumes from Dark Phoenix because they used 80s-90s clothing materials and styles then is simply elegant and classy. He has a highly studious, methodical, and diligent approach to his filmmaking and his design logic and vfx choices excel for that of a first time native director. I hope they carry over his approach to the new set of films.

I think a parallel dimension route would be solid and have them transplanted into the MCU via an alternative transportation method would be most appropriate for continuity purposes. Recasting and redesigning everything seems too extreme and unnecessary. We have the well-produced stock already made in cast, design, and look. Why change it up when people enjoy the flavors and are clearly looking forward to this film? (People were reacting very positively to the trailer that played with the theatrical Captain Marvel film experience

I'm not nearly as cynical about Kingberg as some people are. However, let's see how good the film is before we discuss handing over the reigns to him.

 

[Mutant 77]

So you're happy that only Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine and Mystique have had arcs and development?
And that Mystique is nothing like the comic book character? And played by a bad actress who quite obviously doesn't even care about the character, and can't even name any of the other X-Men?

Wow, you're very easily pleased if you can accept the poor treatment for Storm, Kurt, Angel, Psylocke, Jubilee, Cyclops, Emma Frost and so many others. What sort of X-Men fan could be happy with how they've been shoved into the background and not developed?

I'm a true X-Men comic book fan and a true X-Men movie fan.

Beyond character-arcs, these are well-written, adult, bleak superhero movies... with themes and many deep layers.

I'm fine with having brilliant and outstanding character-arcs for Xavier, Magneto, William Stryker, Mystique, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Beast, Deadpool, Iceman --- and great cinematic depictions of Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue, Colossus, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Nightcrawler (3 movies), Sebastian Shaw, En Sabah Nur/Apocalypse and, of course, Quicksilver !!! (who is an icon now).

Cyclops has been alredy "redempted" on X-Men Origins (kinda of), Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix. However he was very cool on X1 and X2, not developed but very cool.
Oh, and I loved that they used Havok in most of the prequels as "callback" to Cyclops.

I never cared about Psylocke, Gambit, Emma Frost and Angel. Sorry.

By the way, Mystique has been reinvented since "X-Men" (2000), and she has been turned into a wonderful and iconic character. Jennifer also did a great job with it.

If you don't like it, you can always read the comic books - please, do a favour to yourself, only CLAREMONT

 

[X-Maniac]

I posted this in another thread. After seeing and understanding more about how this film is being made makes me really believe that Kinberg is the one to embrace in the future. I hope MCU directors and creative executives in charge of the future operations hire him for his talents, experience, skilled approach, knowledge and extensive investment with these characters to bring the same dark comic accurate flavors and production design to the future films. His logic of the rather bland appearing costumes from Dark Phoenix because they used 80s-90s clothing materials and styles then is simply elegant and classy. He has a highly studious, methodical, and diligent approach to his filmmaking and his design logic and vfx choices excel for that of a first time native director. I hope they carry over his approach to the new set of films.

I think a parallel dimension route would be solid and have them transplanted into the MCU via an alternative transportation method would be most appropriate for continuity purposes. Recasting and redesigning everything seems too extreme and unnecessary. We have the well-produced stock already made in cast, design, and look. Why change it up when people enjoy the flavors and are clearly looking forward to this film? (People were reacting very positively to the trailer that played with the theatrical Captain Marvel film experience

Not gonna happen. See what happened with Spider-Man.

The Fox approach is nothing like the Feige/MCU approach...

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm a true X-Men comic book fan and a true X-Men movie fan.

Beyond character-arcs, these are well-written, adult, bleak superhero movies... with themes and many deep layers.

I'm fine with having brilliant and outstanding character-arcs for Xavier, Magneto, William Stryker, Mystique, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Beast, Deadpool, Iceman --- and great cinematic depictions of Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue, Colossus, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Nightcrawler (3 movies), Sebastian Shaw, En Sabah Nur/Apocalypse and, of course, Quicksilver !!! (who is an icon now).

Cyclops has been alredy "redempted" on X-Men Origins (kinda of), Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix. However he was very cool on X1 and X2, not developed but very cool.
Oh, and I loved that they used Havok in most of the prequels as "callback" to Cyclops.

I never cared about Psylocke, Gambit, Emma Frost and Angel. Sorry.

By the way, Mystique has been reinvented since "X-Men" (2000), and she has been turned into a wonderful and iconic character. Jennifer also did a great job with it.

If you don't like it, you can always read the comic books - please, do a favour to yourself, only CLAREMONT

I don't like it and I have been reading the comic books for four decades. So I know what the X-Men SHOULD be like on screen and I want them represented correctly.

I've also interviewed Chris Claremont. He said to me that one day the X-Men and other Marvel characters would be together, and he was right.

The Fox X-Men are ending now, you have to face the facts. Even without the Disney takeover, it would have been time for a change. McAvoy himself said they can't keep doing the same thing over and over again. He's right.

Meanwhile, JLaw couldn't even name any of the X-Men when interviewed. Thank God she will be gone.

 

[rebellion]

I'm a true X-Men comic book fan and a true X-Men movie fan.

Beyond character-arcs, these are well-written, adult, bleak superhero movies... with themes and many deep layers.

I'm fine with having brilliant and outstanding character-arcs for Xavier, Magneto, William Stryker, Mystique, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Beast, Deadpool, Iceman --- and great cinematic depictions of Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue, Colossus, Negasonic Teenage Warhead, Nightcrawler (3 movies), Sebastian Shaw, En Sabah Nur/Apocalypse and, of course, Quicksilver !!! (who is an icon now).

Cyclops has been alredy "redempted" on X-Men Origins (kinda of), Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix. However he was very cool on X1 and X2, not developed but very cool.
Oh, and I loved that they used Havok in most of the prequels as "callback" to Cyclops.

I never cared about Psylocke, Gambit, Emma Frost and Angel. Sorry.

By the way, Mystique has been reinvented since "X-Men" (2000), and she has been turned into a wonderful and iconic character. Jennifer also did a great job with it.

If you don't like it, you can always read the comic books - please, do a favour to yourself, only CLAREMONT

Thanks for the laugh.

Sincerely,
A TRUE true X-Men comic book fan.

P.S. Raven isn't iconic, and Cyclops is mostly considered lame by general public. #facts