Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[psyonic]

How cinematic are they in their human form! I'm gonna miss that in the Mcu X-Men!

Yeah they are just lazy and it shows, you're home for god's sake why inject a needle serum or shift and maintain concentration to look human! I just attended my lover's funeral/wake, hold up let me inject a lil something something to look human because she NEVER told me "MUTANT AND PROUD" or anything sentimental! xD

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah they are just lazy and it shows, you're home for god's sake why inject a needle serum or shift and maintain concentration to look human! I just attended my lover's funeral/wake, hold up let me inject a lil something something to look human because she NEVER told me "MUTANT AND PROUD" or anything sentimental! xD

Beast probably can just blink and he's in human form instantly, he's a scientist after all.... or the actor/crew simply weren't in the mood to do the paint/prosthetics or they found another way to keep things underbudget.

 

[SumT]

You speak righteously as Kinberg wills it with his mighty skilled craftsmanship. This is an adult oriented 4anchise not for kids. Seeing them in street clothes is realistic and charming. We relate to them better as a result unlike trying to dress up with huge floating red cloaks and suits of metal. It’s a different more real world garlic spicy flavor... not the high fructose corn syrupy stuff.

My comment was 100% sarcasm.

Kinberg is sh**, just in case you didnt know my clear and direct opinion.

 

[Mutant 77]

you're home for god's sake why inject a needle serum or shift and maintain concentration to look human!

Why not? This is not an error. It's called "character depth". Beast is worried and ashamed of his aspect. It's part of his character-arc.

Why do you wear clothes in your home? Just walk naked. Nobody is watching...

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Why not? This is not an error. It's called "character depth". Beast is worried and ashamed of his aspect. It's part of his character-arc.

Why do you wear clothes in your home? Just walk naked. Nobody is watching...

A character arc has a conclusion... he’s been doing this for three movies now with virtually zero growth.

If you’re likening their blue forms to being naked as a means to excuse them looking human at the mansion, then why on earth would they be blue/naked on space missions? Or at a funeral?

Not everything in this series has to be defended, dude. Sometimes things just don’t work.

 

[henzINNIT]

Character depth and Hoult's Beast should never be linked. He's had nothing to do since First Class and is basically a prop.

 

[C. Lee]

I'd like to remind people....if you don't like someone's opinion....you can tell them that and discuss it all day long.....BUT.....you don't get a pass to insult them for it. Post civilly.

 

[Ordet]

Character depth and Hoult's Beast should never be linked. He's had nothing to do since First Class and is basically a prop.

He only explain the key of time-travelling in Days.

 

[Legion]

He only explain the key of time-travelling in Days.

Except that he was wrong. He thought trying to change time (and Raven) was futile. Yet Mystique does spare Trask, never returns to her evil path, and even becomes the leader of th X-Men.

Back in 2023 mutants havent been destroyed by Sentinels and Xavier's school is flourishing...

 

[DawnWarrior]

IIRC Hank was theorizing that trying to change time might be futile. At that point they had just tried to stop Mystique's big assassination, only to have mostly the same problems brewing as before. So it worked for that part of the movie and was one of the more Beast-y moments they've bothered to give Hoult. For the most part, prequel Hank has just been the generic smart guy; he doesn't quote Shakespeare, he doesn't use $5 words, he almost never hangs from things by his gorilla feet. TLS, for all its myriad problems, at least gave us a more classic Beast with Grammer, but we only got one good appearance out of him.

 

[henzINNIT]

He only explain the key of time-travelling in Days.

My mistake. In light of this discovery, he shall hence forth be promoted to exposition-prop.

 

[EnDz0n3]

My mistake. In light of this discovery, he shall hence forth be promoted to exposition-prop.

What's worse is Kinberg would have us believe that Beast would turn his back on his friend of 30 years Charles for a woman, Mystique (prior to whatever this film would tell us might've happened after the credits rolled in Apocalypse) he's spent, at a maximum, a week.

Just a reminder that this woman abandoned them at the Bay of Pigs in Cuba in the 60s because she was called perfection by Magneto in bed.

This woman he barely talked about in the 70s and though he did call her "unique" in that film, he also later on disparaged her saying how "Maybe this is really just who she is" (a bad person, that is).

Someone remind me what their interaction was in Apocalypse: Beast begged her to form the X-men because Xavier had his rose-tinted glasses on; He saved her in Egypt ("I got you!"); And then he was behind her while she barked orders at the X-men in the Danger Room. Nice arc Hank...grow a pair.

So now he wants to murder this girl, Jean Grey, that he's supposedly grown up with at the mansion (a retcon if I ever saw one) because she accidentally kills the woman he...loved?

Nice reach there Simon...errr...Beast.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

From what I gather from the trailers I think Hank is more so upset at Xavier than Jean. From the trailer he says “this is your fault Charles... We trusted you with these kids.” I think he’s upset that Charles has been pushing the team to do extremely dangerous missions & because of that space mission he is to blame for what has happened to Jean and Raven. I think he finds out what he did to her and maybe feels some kind of way about it. I assuming he feels that Charles is refusing to do something about Jean so he turns to Magneto knowing that Magneto would do want needs to be done. However I could be wrong

 

[Ordet]

My mistake. In light of this discovery, he shall hence forth be promoted to exposition-prop.

I don't say Hank is deep written, but that dialogue about time-travelling It not working only for itself.
Its purpose was also to see the difference in the always full of dream/hope Charles and the more doubtful Hank.
There is that feeling about Hank in all DoFP (above all when Logan Met him at house) that he is like inside a river, grabbing at a shore (Charles), knowing that is the right shore, but unsure he will have the strenght to put his feet on grass.
In few words: he would fight for Charles, but without him, he will never follow the dream.

 

[EnDz0n3]

From what I gather from the trailers I think Hank is more so upset at Xavier than Jean. From the trailer he says “this is your fault Charles... We trusted you with these kids.” I think he’s upset that Charles has been pushing the team to do extremely dangerous missions & because of that space mission he is to blame for what has happened to Jean and Raven. I think he finds out what he did to her and maybe feels some kind of way about it. I assuming he feels that Charles is refusing to do something about Jean so he turns to Magneto knowing that Magneto would do want needs to be done. However I could be wrong

But the events of Apocalypse would have us believe that Hank formed the X-men by begging Mystique. Hank was just waiting for his White(literal White girl)-Knight-in-Shining-Armor Raven to form the team with him. According to that film, Xavier had nothing to do with forming the X-men. This was after Wolverine, during DOFP, asked Charles to "Find them. Scott. Storm. Jean. Form the X-men."

Now Kinberg wants us to believe that Charles is pushing the kids? When? Oh right, during the 10 year gap. Where magical things happen.

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

LOL right.

 

[Mutant 77]

From what I gather from the trailers I think Hank is more so upset at Xavier than Jean. From the trailer he says “this is your fault Charles... We trusted you with these kids.” I think he’s upset that Charles has been pushing the team to do extremely dangerous missions & because of that space mission he is to blame for what has happened to Jean and Raven. I think he finds out what he did to her and maybe feels some kind of way about it. I assuming he feels that Charles is refusing to do something about Jean so he turns to Magneto knowing that Magneto would do want needs to be done. However I could be wrong

Nice answer.

I can't see anything wrong in Beast's character development. He was perfectly written in either DOFP and APOCALYPSE.

So Beast wanted to create the X-Men. Mystique was the one to beg, because she was a mutant heroine fighter, very popular in the entire world. She was a symbol for mutants.

As fas as her backstabbing in FIRST CLASS is concerned, they spent an entire movie (DOFP) to develop that point and turning her into an heroine.


Talking about CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT gone wrong:


The relationship between Vision and Wanda was non-existent, and Vision was a poorly developed version of the character to begin with. He should have been given more, MUCH more screentime, instead of American Football Player Thor who was Thor "in name only" and was a super-bland depiction/version of the comic book character. Almost an insult to his fans...

Vision is depicted in a very minimum amount of screentime throughout the movieS LOL ---- but you're supposed to care anyway because it's MCU and it's a big trend and because things.
Or Bruce and Scarlet.
Or Tony and Pepper.


There's enough development with Charles, Moira, Mystique, Magneto, Beast and their romantic relationships... and even Jean who is given enough depth in the first 3 movies.

 

[The Guard]

Hank has had character development in this franchise, especially in FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST, and he definitely has a character arc, both related to his appearance/bestial nature and his feelings about the X-Men and Xavier's stewardship of them. And no, his arc is not as well drawn or developed as Xavier, Magneto, Logan, Mystique, etc, and there's a reason for that...he's a supporting character in the franchise. In some ways he's a foil to Mystique and he essentially serves as Xavier's conscience. But he's been a key character in this franchise nontheless.

And I get that people have an issue with him changing back and forth, but that element actually does add serve to add more depth to his character, his origins, and his relation to the world at large, and there's been a gradual evolution of both his ability and then his willingness to become Beast. The serum isn't just a serum, it's something he has to constantly refine and evolve to stay "human". And then becoming Beast isn't just about turning blue and furry...he seems to become almost feral, to the point where he can lose control. It's not just about his appearance. It's about the fact that he more or less goes from a mild mannered fairly gentle scientist to a more violent creature, which we've seen glimpses of.

Beast was never the one who accepted his mutation outright. Even in The Last Stand he's tempted by the ability to change back to a human, and you get the sense that this has been a lifelong struggle for him.

He hasn't been spot on in terms of his personality, but I do think they've gotten a lot right with the character through four movies.

 

[Mutant 77]

Hank has had character development in this franchise, especially in FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST, and he definitely has a character arc, both related to his appearance/bestial nature and his feelings about the X-Men and Xavier's stewardship of them. And no, his arc is not as large or well developed as Xavier, Magneto, Logan, Mystique, etc, and there's a reason for that...he's a supporting character in the franchise. In some ways he's a foil to Mystique and he essentially serves as Xavier's conscience. But he's been a key character in this franchise.

And I get that people have an issue with him changing back and forth, but that element actually does add serve to add more depth to his character, his origins, and his relation to the world at large, and there's been a gradual evolution of his ability and then his willingness to become Beast. He was never the one who accepted his mutation outright. Even in The Last Stand he's tempted by the ability to change back to a human, and you get the sense that this has been a lifelong struggle for him.

GREAT POST.

As far as Xavier is concerned, after the events of DOFP he was gradually/slowly coming back to life as "Professor X". He reopened the school and improved Cerebro. He took care of Jean Grey.
On the other side, he was unsure about a new generation of X-Men, since the First Class line-up had turned into a big mess. Besides, the events of DOFP left him worried about long-term effects of a mutant exposition.
The only big mystery is Ororo/Storm. Maybe Xavier knew she was located in Cairo. He was just expecting the right moment to soldier her on. At that point, the X-Men didn't even exist anyway.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Hank has had character development in this franchise, especially in FIRST CLASS and DAYS OF FUTURE PAST, and he definitely has a character arc, both related to his appearance/bestial nature and his feelings about the X-Men and Xavier's stewardship of them. And no, his arc is not as well drawn or developed as Xavier, Magneto, Logan, Mystique, etc, and there's a reason for that...he's a supporting character in the franchise. In some ways he's a foil to Mystique and he essentially serves as Xavier's conscience. But he's been a key character in this franchise nontheless.

And I get that people have an issue with him changing back and forth, but that element actually does add serve to add more depth to his character, his origins, and his relation to the world at large, and there's been a gradual evolution of both his ability and then his willingness to become Beast. The serum isn't just a serum, it's something he has to constantly refine and evolve to stay "human". And then becoming Beast isn't just about turning blue and furry...he seems to become almost feral, to the point where he can lose control. It's not just about his appearance. It's about the fact that he more or less goes from a mild mannered fairly gentle scientist to a more violent creature, which we've seen glimpses of.

Beast was never the one who accepted his mutation outright. Even in The Last Stand he's tempted by the ability to change back to a human, and you get the sense that this has been a lifelong struggle for him.

He hasn't been spot on in terms of his personality, but I do think they've gotten a lot right with the character through four movies.

I was going to call Hank a foil to Mystique in my previous post on this page (I'm sure I've called him that before) but I thought someone would respond in his defence and say: "No. Hank is not a foil to Mystique to Xavier or to anybody. He's his own fully-realized character."

I'm glad we're no longer pretending that he isn't a foil.

Btw, a foil is not a compliment. But of course you treated it as a compliment LOL

 

[The Guard]

Calling a character a foil is not an insult. It just denotes a character relationship.

Magneto is a foil to Xavier, and still a well realized character.

That's not Beast's only role in the franchise, it just happens to be one of his key structural ones in relation to another major character. Hank is one of only four characters in this franchise who has had an ongoing arc and development since FIRST CLASS. He's clearly one of the important players in the franchise, probably the fourth most significant character in the prequel stories and arguably one of the more important X-Men in the overall franchise, even though he only showed up in the third movie of the original trilogy.

 

[Mutant 77]

The Guard:

I would love to get your feedback on the Xavier/X-Men/Storm points. Thank you!

 

[The Guard]

In terms of why he didn't recruit her originally for the school, along with the other X-Men?

 

[Mutant 77]

In terms of why he didn't recruit her originally for the school, along with the other X-Men?

And even why he was reluctant about having the X-Men again in the first place.

 

[The Guard]

I mean, he runs an American school. He seems to operate on a relatively local level. I don't know that his plan was ever to jaunt around the world picking up every mutant that manifests, and its reasonable to believe that he isn't aware of all of them and their situations, no matter how sophisticated his tech and how powerful he is.

Doesn't APOCALYPSE basically indicate that he didn't want to put the students in harm's way? It's Beast that wanted to re-form the X-Men. Xavier was reluctant.