Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Charzhin0]

Judging from an interview back in October it seems that Kevin Feige wants to use unused concepts that he had back when he worked at Fox.

Which interview was this? Does he name any of the concepts

 

[Hand Banana]

At the time, preparations for the Disney-Fox acquisition were in full swing. Marketing and publicity and distribution execs were either being forced out or had one eye on the door. "The campaign was muddled," says a former Fox executive. "Was this the final X-Men movie? Was it about a character going back? This movie just got lost."

An NRG tracking poll taken in May showed that Avengers: Endgame, Marvel Studios' rival superhero franchise, was rated higher than Dark Phoenix as a choice for moviegoers — and that's after Endgame had been playing in theaters for five weeks already. "Definite awareness never got a score over 75 on tracking," says one insider. "An X-Men movie had never been below 90."

"When definite awareness of Rocketman is higher than an X-Men movie, you know you're in strange territory," says another insider.

"We Were Wrong": Behind Fox's 'Dark Phoenix' Debacle

Damn, without Disney’s last minute marketing push this would have made less money than Rocketman.

Which interview was this? Does he name any of the concepts

It was the one where an interviewer asked him if Deadpool survived the snap.

 

[kevork89]

There were definite moments that I feel were very similar to Captain Marvel. Obviously the original concept of the Skrulls being included as well as the original UN ending which had a similar ending as Captain Marvel taking out the fleet of ships. And also the fact that both characters are constantly told their emotions are weak but their emotions are what make them strong etc etc.

The difference is Marvel got it right. Fox there was some rare shining moments but the inconsistent story and lack of care or development just wasn’t there.

 

[JP]

It just limped through a second weekend still below the previous lowest opening weekend in the series. No-one could have predicted the film would crash out like this.

I don't know about that....

 

[kevork89]

As much as anyone hoped it would do good enough (me included), this movie was DOA. First and foremost Apocalypse killed any good will the audience had after DoFP. Then rushing into the Dark Phoenix story again. Before they even started filming this movie was getting trashed everywhere. No one wanted it and Fox didn’t listen. They are to blame for the failure. They let Kinberg write/direct. They could have made a much better film and they chose not to.

 

[Detective Conan]

I don't know about that....

Even the film’s biggest detractors at least thought the movie wouldn’t end up as the lowest grossing/worst reviewed X-Men film.

This has far surpassed even the lowest of expectations the negative nancy’s like me had for the film. At worst we all thought it would make less than Apocalypse but less than even the nineteen year old original X-Men film(without even adjusting for inflation)? is just insane. Even the Rotten Tomatoes score for the film is well below what most anticipated.

 

[shinlyle]

As much as anyone hoped it would do good enough (me included), this movie was DOA. First and foremost Apocalypse killed any good will the audience had after DoFP. Then rushing into the Dark Phoenix story again. Before they even started filming this movie was getting trashed everywhere. No one wanted it and Fox didn’t listen. They are to blame for the failure. They let Kinberg write/direct. They could have made a much better film and they chose not to.

Preach. If they wanted the film to be a success on ANY level, they should have maybe:
1) Hire a competent director. I first time director who had previously worked on scripts that were pretty ill-received was a bonehead move.

2) Don't retread the previous 5 films. NO ONE wanted to see the Phoenix saga again, much less cram it into one film...and even FEWER people wanted it written by the same putz who wrote the prior attempt to adapt it and cram it into a film.

3) Let the script BREATH. The one complaint that both sides (the 80% who disliked it and the 20% who liked it) seem to have is that the film just jumps from beat to beat, while not letting any of the drama build. There is a lot to be said about those quiet moments...about letting the tension mount. Otherwise, you end up with the Bay-Formers movies. 'Splosion! Fight! 'Slo-mo Splosion! No one wants that anymore.

4) MAYBE not release it after an actual GREAT franchise releases a far better and more anticipated film. Endgame was great. Argue the logistics and time travel and plot holes all you want, but they stuck the landing...which the core X-Men films have failed to do through 3 separate endings...mainly because they tried to do the same thing twice.

 

[X-Maniac]

I read that article and agree with it.

The movie is very muddled about the origin/nature of Jean's powers and instabilities.

Spoiler

1) As the child in the car she already is hearing an inner voice ('Quiet') and things are happening (radio changing stations) on a subconscious level or via another personality inside her. It's not clear.

2) Xavier builds mental walls to shut away any idea her dad is alive, seemingly to protect her from pain and hurt, but also possibly to further his own agenda of creating the school and recruiting special kids.

3) the cosmic Force is drawn to her (says Vuk) and amplifies her mutation so it's off the charts (says Hank) and so it is breaking down the mental walls.

4) She talks about surges of power ('When it comes, I can't control it, people get hurt')

It's all a bit confusing and Kinberg hasn't chosen a clear narrative for her powers at all.

I went to see it again last night in 3D and while I enjoyed it more the second time, the whole thing does have its problems for sure.

Sophie's voiceovers are not very good, her accent and weak voice doesn't do it any favours.

 

[Alison Blaire]

Where is the Stan Lee tribute? 'Dark Phoenix' Will Have a Stan Lee Tribute Instead of the Usual Cameo

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Where is the Stan Lee tribute? 'Dark Phoenix' Will Have a Stan Lee Tribute Instead of the Usual Cameo

I didn't spot anything in the film. Just those words 'In Memory of Stan Lee' (or similar) at the end.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I didn't spot anything in the film. Just those words 'In Memory of Stan Lee' (or similar) at the end.

Reading that article Alison Blaire posted, it seems like that "In Memory of Stan Lee" bit might've all been what Kinberg had.

Simon has a way with words that over sells what he's trying to say/sell.

 

[Charzhin0]

Still quite annoyed we didnt get Phoenix raptor properly once. I remember throughout the whole PR campaign people were eagerly awaiting the moment Jean goes full phoenix fire bird. Itll be in the next trailer for sure; after trailer 1 dropped. Itll be in the final trailer, they just saving their money shot; after trailer 2. Kinbergs perfecting the effects of the raptor to make it stunning and saving it for a glorious reveal in the movie; after trailer 3

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Super obvious spoilers ahead...

Yeah, I dug the split-second shot of the raptor right as Jean exploded, but we couldn’t see it before then? Such a bummer.

 

[lastairbender]

I finally saw it and... my god... it isnt that bad!! It doesnt deserve all the bad criticism and hate! At all!
Yes it could be better, longer and bigger!Yes is very diferent than all xmen before And the writing is a bit basic! But i loved the emotion, team work, action scenes, music etc. im glad i saw it and will see it again.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I finally saw it and... my god... it isnt that bad!! It doesnt deserve all the bad criticism and hate! At all!
Yes it could be better, longer and bigger!Yes is very diferent than all xmen before And the writing is a bit basic! But i loved the emotion, team work, action scenes, music etc. im glad i saw it and will see it again.

Nice to find someone else who enjoyed it!

 

[lastairbender]

And i just feel happy i liked more seeing her than captain marvel wich i think is a completely overated movie!

 

[Hand Banana]

There were definite moments that I feel were very similar to Captain Marvel. Obviously the original concept of the Skrulls being included as well as the original UN ending which had a similar ending as Captain Marvel taking out the fleet of ships. And also the fact that both characters are constantly told their emotions are weak but their emotions are what make them strong etc etc.

The difference is Marvel got it right. Fox there was some rare shining moments but the inconsistent story and lack of care or development just wasn’t there.

In the version Icekid saw it was a much cooler line that was a callback to the original storyline.

Vuk :”You could have been a God”

Jean:“I’d rather die a mortal”

Don’t know why they didn’t go with this. Maybe because they cut out Jean and Vuk’s conversation about becoming a god that was in the second trailer.

 

[Hand Banana]

As much as anyone hoped it would do good enough (me included), this movie was DOA. First and foremost Apocalypse killed any good will the audience had after DoFP. Then rushing into the Dark Phoenix story again. Before they even started filming this movie was getting trashed everywhere. No one wanted it and Fox didn’t listen. They are to blame for the failure. They let Kinberg write/direct. They could have made a much better film and they chose not to.

Preach. If they wanted the film to be a success on ANY level, they should have maybe:
1) Hire a competent director. I first time director who had previously worked on scripts that were pretty ill-received was a bonehead move.

2) Don't retread the previous 5 films. NO ONE wanted to see the Phoenix saga again, much less cram it into one film...and even FEWER people wanted it written by the same putz who wrote the prior attempt to adapt it and cram it into a film.

3) Let the script BREATH. The one complaint that both sides (the 80% who disliked it and the 20% who liked it) seem to have is that the film just jumps from beat to beat, while not letting any of the drama build. There is a lot to be said about those quiet moments...about letting the tension mount. Otherwise, you end up with the Bay-Formers movies. 'Splosion! Fight! 'Slo-mo Splosion! No one wants that anymore.

4) MAYBE not release it after an actual GREAT franchise releases a far better and more anticipated film. Endgame was great. Argue the logistics and time travel and plot holes all you want, but they stuck the landing...which the core X-Men films have failed to do through 3 separate endings...mainly because they tried to do the same thing twice.

Internet backlash from the comic reading community doesn’t really effect a film’s performance. Less than a year ago we had Venom that was also getting trashed by fans, but it made over 800 million dollars. We are way too small in numbers as shown by comic sale figures being only in the thousands.

Deadline actually compared this to Venom and stated the reasons why this failed but that didn’t.

‘Dark Phoenix’ Bombs And Will Lose $100M+: Here’s Why – Deadline

100% agree with you shinlyle on that the movie needed some breathing time and be released at a later date.

 

[The Guard]

You could've knocked me over with a feather. You've never seen an issue with these films. Even now with Dark Phoenix crashing and burning spectacularly, here you still are, explaining away what the rest of us supposedly don't see.

So pardon me if I'm not surprised you are making excuses for it.

I'm not making excuses for it. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so hyperbolic and rude.

I'm just stating the obvious. This movie's production was compromised. There are realities of studio driven films. Some filmmakers have more control than others.

Perhaps a studio wouldn't give "that much control" to a first time director, but to Fox Kinberg isn't simply some journey man first time director is he?

No, he's not a complete unknown to them, and them knowing him is probably why he got the job over more established filmmakers. But in part because he ISN'T an established director, he is someone they likely exerted enough control over to compress a two film vision into one film, etc, etc, etc.

To the studio execs, he's been with this franchise shortly after X2 came out (thank god he was never allowed near that movie), banging out a script for X3 with Penn since around 2004. He's good friends with headhonchos at Fox (Snyder and Watts), he has A-list movie stars name-dropping him, he's been one of the more pre-eminent Producers in the business and a go-to script doctor, commanding $400,000 a week doing re-writes (god knows what possessed these studios to trust a man with barely a good script to his name) and has produced the new batch of films in this franchise. Fox trusted him enough to oversee Fan4stic when its director fizzled out, allowing him to direct in his absence.

But again, he was probably trusted to "direct" Fantastic Four because he's someone they could exert some control over. You don't hire hired guns to do their own thing most of the time.

So no, this whole "they didn't give him that much control" narrative doesn't fly. Somewhere Josh Trank* is having his last laugh. If only he had as fervent defenders that Kinberg seems to have. He probably didn't have to tweet out that infamous tweet. Everyone else would have tweeted it for him!

Trank had plenty of people, including those in the industry, who recognized that his vision was compromised.

It's quite clear that THIS movie's original vision was also compromised, that the film was mandated to be shorter if nothing else, and that it was likely seriously altered after test screenings. I'm not disputing Kinberg's involvement, but that sort of thing tends to be a studio move, and it's a Fox move, and I think we all know that.

I get that you hate Kinberg on principal. I'm not defending his filmography, or the quality of the final product, but all signs point to the production of this film being compromised in some capacity. That's all I'm saying, and I'm hardly the only one doing so. Including a number of articles, who again, are essentIally just stating the obvious and not exactly breaking new ground in doing so.

 

[Nintendo]

I don't think the movie is great and it sucks as a series closer, but with 10 extra minutes (of anything!) and either of the first 2 release dates, this film could have made a lot more in the US and spared itself this fate. I also think naming it Dark Phoenix and not X:Men Dark Phoenix in the US was a really boneheaded decision. Especially when the film has that title everywhere else in the world. Do we know who at Fox decided to do that? @icekid ? Marketing in general was a disaster. The film itself is probably the least offensive part of this debacle imo. It's not terrible like Fant4stic, but the third act certainly comes at you in a similar "wait that's the film?" kind of way. Other than the helicopter scene, I liked most of what I was presented, there just wasn't enough to it. Sigh

 

[Hand Banana]

I don't think the movie is great and it sucks as a series closer, but with 10 extra minutes (of anything!) and either of the first 2 release dates, this film could have made a lot more in the US and spared itself this fate. I also think naming it Dark Phoenix and not X:Men Dark Phoenix in the US was a really boneheaded decision. Especially when the film has that title everywhere else in the world. Do we know who at Fox decided to do that? @icekid ? Marketing in general was a disaster. The film itself is probably the least offensive part of this debacle imo. It's not terrible like Fant4stic, but the third act certainly comes at you in a similar "wait that's the film?" kind of way. Other than the helicopter scene, I liked most of what I was presented, there just wasn't enough to it. Sigh

Yeah, they did cut out like around half a hour of footage allegedly to get more screenings.

And the marketing was indeed a disaster according Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, and Deadline. People on the marketing team we’re leaving before they would laid off by the Fox-Disney merger. It was reported that it was so bad that audiences were less aware of this movie’s existence than not only any other X-films but also Rocketman. John Campea even alluded to this months ago.

I doubt say that they should have delayed the movie beyond June so that would have given Disney more time to properly market this instead of doing it at the last minute.

 

[SumT]

Reading that article Alison Blaire posted, it seems like that "In Memory of Stan Lee" bit might've all been what Kinberg had.

Simon has a way with words that over sells what he's trying to say/sell.

he's just better at interviews than writing scripts.
each human being has his talents. I guess selling a non thing is his thing.

 

[flickchick85]

Reading that article Alison Blaire posted, it seems like that "In Memory of Stan Lee" bit might've all been what Kinberg had.

Simon has a way with words that over sells what he's trying to say/sell.

Between that and the "this is our Return of the King" comment, it's starting to sound like he's the Billy McFarland of this franchise.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

In the version Icekid saw it was a much cooler line that was a callback to the original storyline.

Vuk :”You could have been a God”

Jean:“I’d rather die a mortal”

Don’t know why they didn’t go with this. Maybe because they cut out Jean and Vuk’s conversation about becoming a god that was in the second trailer.

It’s probably because the exchange contradicts...

Spoiler

...Jean essentially becoming a god at the end.

It seems like there were a lot of alternate lines... scenes... concepts... entire acts...

 

[Hand Banana]

It’s probably because the exchange contradicts...

Spoiler

...Jean essentially becoming a god at the end.

It seems like there were a lot of alternate lines... scenes... concepts... entire acts...

Maybe but...

Spoiler

Days of Future Past shows that she will eventually revert back to being mortal. So who knows what exactly happened to her.