Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Hand Banana]

when an old time x-men producer didnt have hype either....
thats all we need to know.

Of course she wasn’t hyped. She wasn’t interested in working on these movies anymore due to creative diffences.

 

[SumT]

how do you know she wasnt interested?
maybe someone (a man) sidelined her so she ended on just the tv projects

 

[Hand Banana]

how do you know she wasnt interested?
maybe someone (a man) sidelined her so she ended on just the tv projects

She left on her own.

Fox insiders say this is true, noting that Donner additionally did not have anything to do with the successful Logan and Deadpool and Deadpool 2, either, on which she received producer credit, thanks to generous contract terms. Donner, according to Fox insiders, has not been involved with the X-movies since leaving under a cloud of "creative differences" during the making of Future Past.

"We Were Wrong": Behind Fox's 'Dark Phoenix' Debacle

Heard she wanted the original cast back.

 

[The Guard]

Oh, I agree that it only payed lip-service to the character. But I do believe that is indeed an issue of things being left on the cutting room floor, based on the version icekid described. Even the trailers show hints of scenes that explore Jean’s inner feelings which were cut from the final product, such as her contemplating over what she had done in the second trailer(“why did you make me do that”) and her in the third trailer telling Magneto that it feels good when ever she loses control. I remember Sophie going in depth about the latter in an interview many months back.

Eh. Though there were obviously character building scenes cut, the film still did quite a bit of exploration of Jean Grey from a character standpoint; her life, her relationships, and her psychology, especially for what is still essentially an ensemble film. Potentially to the detriment of other ensemble characters, in fact. The weakness of the film isn't in its exploration of Jean...its in its exploration of other characters in relation to Jean, except for perhaps Xavier.

The filmmakers have been saying for years that they wanted to pull back on spectacle and focus more on character but the final product ended up being the opposite. Even after the release insiders were reporting that’s what they wanted. It’s very strange to me.

I actually think this film was far more geared to character than spectacle. I thought the character exploration was, if not as good as the better films in the series, at least as or more focused in terms of screentime and structure.

The enhanced character focus on Jean is one thing they were spot on about based on the pre-film interviews that were given.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

She left on her own.



"We Were Wrong": Behind Fox's 'Dark Phoenix' Debacle

Heard she wanted the original cast back.

As much as I liked (still do) the original cast, I think as things were their time had pretty much run its course.

 

[Mad Ones]

Spectacle and character driven intimacy go hand in hand in the Dark Phoenix Saga. That's why it's the best comic story ever told. Filmmakers need to get that.

 

[Cktopl33]

I'll just leave this here, dated September 2018. Here you’re laying all/most of the blame for Apocalypse on:

Here you are defending Kinberg because he was “only” the scriptwriter for Apocalypse, not its director:

Not to mention here where you made up a person out of thin air to be the boogyman that supposedly ghost-directed Fan4stic. Well now we know Kinberg caught the directing bug from *that* movie and Apocalypse before it:

Oh and this one where we should be excited that an X-men movie is finally under a "unified vision" until I guess it isn't because the new narrative is "Kinberg has bosses so Dark Phoenix isn't his unified vision any more."

Hindsight is 20/20.

So, let's go down this silly checklist. First, Bryan Singer WAS to blame for Apocalypse as the director. That is a correct assessment. I still liked Dark Phoenix better than that movie and (just as I stated that the action is determined by the director and stunt crew) I think Kinberg handled action better than Singer.

Second, my quote about Fan4stic was not "made up from thin air", but rather based off info from crew members that had also been reported on website articles:

One source who says that Drew Goddard, who wrote and directed The Cabin in the Woods and also helped craft a new third act for Paramount’s World War Z with Damon Lindelof, was brought in as part of a “dream team” to help rescue the film. With some of the cast not fully available at that point and [producer Simon] Kinberg juggling X-Men: Apocalypse and Star Wars, a lot of material was shot with doubles and the production moved to Los Angeles to film scenes with Teller against a green screen. “It was chaos,” says a crew member, adding that Trank was still in attendance “but was neutralized by a committee.”

Third, I don't believe I stated Dark Phoenix changed from being Kinberg's unified vision. It's still his vision and tone he set out to do. I do believe I said plenty that Kinberg is responsible for the outcome of Dark Phoenix (which he also publicly accepted blame), something you keep ignoring:

We'll he's definitely responsible for the outcome. He decided all the changes that went into the final cut. I'll find out for myself when I see the film on what I liked and didn't like.

However, none of that dismisses the fact that he had (I believe) a more solid vision early on that had been planned out. His two-parter idea sounded like a better movie. He was forced to make drastic changes to his idea because of forces that weren't in his control, yes (but that happened to a lot of people at Fox, this movie wasn't the only collateral damage shoved down the drain). I had only recently became aware of the backdoor drama with Fox, the acquisition, and how this movie changed from its initial planned inception. Kinberg is still responsible for the execution of the final product regardless which still could have been better (with the right changes) than the version that was released. So, I don't know what this 'changing the narrative' nonsense you keep going on about is from (but it's very predictable).

 

[Blade Hoarder]

The alternate cut of character development is sitting in the same shelf as the character development in Apocalypse, Origins, and X3.

 

[Alison Blaire]

 

[Hand Banana]

Yeah it’s like the film knows what a Dark Phoenix story should have, so it just checks off the boxes rather than build emotional depth to it. Jeans goes to space. She “sacrifices herself” and we’re told how she is brave and almost died and should be dead, even though that never really came across to me in the space scene. Then a scene later she is a psycho murderer cause that’s what’s supposed to happen.

I just rewatched the film. The only thing Jean does is accidentally kill Mystique and injury some cops/soldiers that get her way. She never really gives in her dark side.

 

[Dark Raven]

Halston looks great! And I'm also glad you've got a Dazzler avatar now as well!

 

[Filmfreak]

I just rewatched the film. The only thing Jean does is accidentally kill Mystique and injury some cops/soldiers that get her way. She never really gives in her dark side.

I think that part where she makes Xavier walk like a puppet was pretty messed up. The whole scene in itself showed a glimpse of this so called dark side more than anyting else in the entire movie. But yeah, it was poorly handled overall. It seems silly that her actions would make the goverment go after her and all mutants again after everything and the fact that the Dark Phoenix was handled like another Hulk-like persona that took over when Jean was angry didn't help at all.

 

[jignat]

Here’s my controversial ranking for all the X-films
(best to worst)

DOFP - 9/10
First Class/Logan/Deadpool 1 - 8.5/10
X2 - 8/10
Deadpool 2/The Wolverine - 7.5/10
X1/ XM Apocalypse - 7/10

X3: The Last Stand - 6/10
XM Dark Phoenix - 5/10
XOrigins Wolverine - 4/10

 

[Hand Banana]

I think that part where she makes Xavier walk like a puppet was pretty messed up. The whole scene in itself showed a glimpse of this so called dark side more than anyting else in the entire movie. But yeah, it was poorly handled overall. It seems silly that her actions would make the goverment go after her and all mutants again after everything and the fact that the Dark Phoenix was handled like another Hulk-like persona that took over when Jean was angry didn't help at all.

I must have missed this part on both viewings. I thought the MCU only captured the mutants in NY because they were brawling.

 

[Filmfreak]

Yeah that's what I meant. But the fact the goverment completely lost their trust in mutants and cut them off all of a sudden doesn't make much sense. There were always good and evil mutants who had done far more terrible things than injure a couple of police officers and military, especially since it happened involuntarily this time around. I can understand the argument that now the "villain" was one of the X-Men but it doesn't change the fact that their change of heart was poorly handled.

 

[Alison Blaire]

 

[Detective Conan]

I think it’s time for Disney to treat this movie like the dying dog that it is and put it out its misery by yanking it out of theaters.

 

[Xeno]

That theater drop is the only impressive thing about DP's box office run. At least some of the screens it's losing will go to Endgame, so all is not lost for Disney. Maybe Iger's minions made a deal with theater owners to exchange Dark Turkey for a film that's already earned more than $700 million domestic.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think it’s time for Disney to treat this movie like the dying dog that it is and put it out its misery by yanking it out of theaters.

Give it 5 more weeks. Apocalypse was in theaters for 9 weeks. It will outgross Fant4stic tomorrow and the next one to outgross is Blade.

 

[Detective Conan]

Give it 5 more weeks. Apocalypse was in theaters for 8 weeks. It will outgross Fant4stic tomorrow and the next one to outgross is Blade.

This movie is doing much worse than Apocalypse, though.

 

[psylockolussus]

This movie is doing much worse than Apocalypse, though.

Yeah thats I said 5 weeks for a total of 7 weeks which would be fitting as this is the 7th non solo film in the franchise.

It should be gone by the time The Angry PhoeniX Movie 2 hits theaters.

 

[psylockolussus]

As much as I liked (still do) the original cast, I think as things were their time had pretty much run its course.

No. When a Logan movie in 2017 just feat. Hugh and Patrick earned over 600 million. So a X-Men 5 in 2016 or 2017 with the whole ot cast (minus Ian/Rebecca/Aaron) would have at least opened bigger than Apocalypse.

The only thing that I'm happy about with FoX abandoning the ot cast post Dofp is at least the original cast didn't get to headline Kinberg's directorial debut and that they went out as a group in a high note unlike the First Class era.

Also Kinberg was the guy who pitched First Class to FoX so no surprised that the guy overseeing the franchise wanted the X-Men to be stuck in the past, post dofp. It had nothing to do with the ot cast's star power. Just misguided direction of the franchise.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[Filmfreak]

No. When a Logan movie in 2017 just feat. Hugh and Patrick earned over 600 million. So a X-Men 5 in 2016 or 2017 with the whole ot cast (minus Ian/Rebecca/Aaron) would have at least opened bigger than Apocalypse.

The only thing that I'm happy about with FoX abandoning the ot cast post Dofp is at least the original cast didn't get to headline Kinberg's directorial debut and that they went out as a group in a high note unlike the First Class era.

Also Kinberg was the guy who pitched First Class to FoX so no surprised that the guy overseeing the franchise wanted the X-Men to be stuck in the past, post dofp. It had nothing to do with the ot cast's star power. Just misguided direction of the franchise.

Come on. Wolverine was the one from the original cast who was actually bringing butts in the seats. The only other reason the First Class movies didn't make enough money were poor reviews. If Logan was in them and the movies were as good as the first two in the past timeline, rest assured they would have made far more than any proposed original trilogy cast movie. McAvoy, Lawrence and Fassbender were much much bigger names than anyone else in the present/future timeline (again, besides Jackman) and it surely made much more sense business-wise to not go back to a cast of characters who were in their 70s, 50s or mid 40s.

That being said I would have loved to see one more movie in that timeline and have an actual send-off of those characters other than one scene we got in Day of Future Past. Something that could really atone for The Last Stand. But I guess we neither got this nor a better conclusion to the past timeline. So there's that.

 

[psylockolussus]

Hugh Jackman was part of the ot cast, when people mention the ot cast, he's included in that cast and Hugh himself called themselves as the "originals". That being said, none of the Wolverine solo films have outgrossed X3 in North America and the highest grossing film in the series is dofp which featured the return of the original cast together.

And Hugh Jackman was in Apocalypse btw.

Personally speaking, I wanted a X5 with the Wolverine. As for McAvoy, Fassbender, Lawrence, they don't bring much attention to the series. First Class didn't open big and was considered an underperformer at the boX office.Apocalypse could have opened bigger despite the bad reviews. Movies like Aladdin, Origins Wolverine, Fifty Shades, Suicide Squad, BvS, TMNT 2014, Twilight Saga and the Transformers movies didn't a fresh rt rating for people to make them a success, so why should that be the case for Apocalypse and Dark PhoeniX, Xpecially Apocalypse, a sequel to Dofp. There isn't just enough public interest to the First Class cast.