Zach Snyder plans to speak with Frank Miller for MoS Sequel

Discussion in 'Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice' started by Superman 1265, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. vantheman77

    vantheman77 Superman Fan 4 Life

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    The thing with Dark Knight Returns is that DC Comics continued to be influenced by it and other writers followed suit over the years. I hope the MOS team look to the comics for Superman and Batman relationship like they did with MOS.
     
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  2. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    I'm a fan of both characters and I think DKR is a great book but as I said its not what I want to see on the big screen, not that this film will be mind.

    It's definitely the most famous iconic encounter between the two. In some ways its infamous.

    Actually your whole post was spot on :up:
     
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  3. X Knight

    X Knight Hope

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    do we know when Snyder is speaking with Miller??
     
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  4. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    That's just it it's the legacy it's left, that's not the fault if anyone involved or the book itself, it just shows the phenomenon it was/is.
     
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  5. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    Why thinking of protesting? :oldrazz:
     
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  6. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    There are also people who hate certain works and portrayals of characters without having any real understanding of them.

    The portrayal of Superman in DKR is not anything I've ever had a serious issue with, especially given the context of the story itself. I'd argue KINGDOM COME ultimately does the character more a disservice than DKR did. But that said, both stories raised some very valid points about the character and his relationship to the world.

    I've never really understood the widespread issues people have with the portrayal of Superman in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS.

    What, Superman has never been defeated or almost defeated before? Especially by Kryptonite? Read a comic book.

    And overall, it's actually fairly in line with the portrayal of Superman in the comics at the time, and in that era, it was just obviously taken to a story extreme for thematic and story purposes. I actually think Superman comes across fairly well in DKR. Vulnerable, and fallible, but no less Superman for it.
     
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  7. shauner111

    shauner111 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Guard, I don't get it. I love Returns and never had a problem with Superman either.
     
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  8. Shikamaru

    Shikamaru Well-Known Member

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    I love Returns as well and I didn't have a problem with Superman either. However, the reason I am worried for this film has nothing to do with that book. The problem is that Frank Miller has not been a good writer for years now. Fans often like to joke around that he went insane.
     
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  9. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    That is true, has he done anything since Holy Terror? Infact was that before or after All Star B&R?
     
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  10. shauner111

    shauner111 Well-Known Member

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    True. I agree with that. But I think it has nothing to do with that, probably just going to him about his take on Returns and what Zack wants to keep and wants to change.
     
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  11. Audrey

    Audrey Well-Known Member

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    That may be true. But I'm an educated, intelligent person trained to read and understand narratives and I'm not one of them.

    I have a full understanding of Dark Knight Returns. I understand completely what Miller was trying to say about Superman and his place in the world. I don't like it nor do I agree with it. Even within the context of the story.

    I don't care for Miller's racism or sexism either. So I don't support his work.
    Kingdom Come has it's own problems and issues. And I could spend a full page listing them. It's a book with beautiful art that has been revered into iconic status with a lot of problems in characterization. Wonder Woman's characterization is particularly horrible in the book to the point that Mark Waid has apologized for it. The book has horrible gender problems. I'm not excusing Kingdom Come.

    I've read thousands of comic books. For about 20 years. Thanks. Still don't like the book.


    Actually, I don't think it's at all in line with the portrayal of Superman in comics at that time. Dark Knight Returns was published only a brief year after Superman's final bow in the pre-crisis era with "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tommorrow." The Superman in that book was also vulnerable and falliable but had full control over his choices and a strong will. He was no one's fool.

    It was published the same year as John Bryne's Man of Steel reboot which portrayed Clark as again, falliable, vulnerable and yet....empowered and dignified and able to stand tall and make his own choices.

    Then again, at this point, the book was written over 25 years ago. So whether it was on point for "that time" really has no bearing on whether it's appropriate to be used as inspiration today. It's certainly NOT on point with the way he's portrayed today nor the way he was portrayed in Man of Steel.

    There are plenty of other books that ask challenging, thoughtful and valid questions about Superman's place in our world while keeping his personality and dignity intact. They also managed to be written by men who liked and respected the character.

    I respect if you enjoy the book. I do not.
     
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  12. BatLobsterRises

    BatLobsterRises Lobsterized

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    Thanks, you have too. It's all good, we're just having a discussion here. :woot:

    I do think Death and Return would be a great angle to play for a third film, whatever that ends up being. Something about that storyline feels like it should be a little further down the line IMO. Sort of like Knightfall/Dark Knight Rises. Maybe they can dust off Kevin Smith's Superman Lives script when the time comes. :oldrazz:
     
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  13. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    Frank Miller is like the Hans Zimmer of comic books. He used to be great but now he just "experiments" with stuff and is hugely overrated.
     
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  14. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    What do you think he was trying to say?

    And why don't you agree with it in the context of the story?

    How is Superman anyone's fool in DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, or somehow lacking a will of his own, or the ability to make his own choices?

    I don't see Superman not making his own choices in DKR.

    There are themes and ideas explored in TDKR that are pretty much timeless, issues inherent to the Superman/Batman relationship, and to their relationship with the world. I don't think Snyder meeting with Miller necessarily has anything to do with the specifics of that portrayal, but more to do with the questions that arise when considering their impact on the world, the politics of it, etc. Who knows, though?

    It's been a while since I read it, but nothing about Clark Kent's portrayal in DKR that I can recall suggests that Frank Miller doesn't like the character. Only that he recognizes some of the character's more commonly used elements as somewhat flawed. Which is the same approach he took with Batman.
     
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  15. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    Bravo. No one should be pressured into "liking" anything.
     
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  16. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    I don't think that's a fair comparison at all, especially as I'm a huge fan of Zimmer.

    Zimmer hasn't gone nuts for a start, If I were to compare Milker to anyone it'd be Mel Gibson.
     
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  17. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    At this point, Miller's the Nick Cage of comic books :D
     
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  18. shauner111

    shauner111 Well-Known Member

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    My favorite stuff from Zimmer in from the last few years.
     
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  19. BH/HHH

    BH/HHH You Are My World

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    That might be a better comparison than mine :woot:
     
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  20. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    I'll let Bruce sum it all up: [YT]gA6hZ4f34II[/YT]
     
    #145
  21. Brother Jack

    Brother Jack Believer

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    He's the George Lucas of comic books.
     
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  22. tomoe

    tomoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't even think Dark Knight Returns was the best portrayal of Batman, much less Superman. Is it too much to hope Snyder will seek other comic writers to consult with? Like one who is actually a Superman fan and has written excellent Superman stories, since this is supposedly a sequel to MOS? Or is it anymore?
     
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  23. TheFlamingCoco

    TheFlamingCoco Well-Known Member

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    Nailed it.
     
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  24. Doctor Jones

    Doctor Jones It's All One Story

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    That's still pretty reaching. You don't see the other using the term "pond scum." :o
     
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  25. Doctor Jones

    Doctor Jones It's All One Story

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    I think it seems pretty illogical for Snyder to say all this stuff about how Superman is the "king daddy" of superheroes and the greatest and what not, and then suddenly make him out to be Batman's ***** so he can steal the spotlight.

    No doubt Superman will get his ass kicked though. And of course he still needs conflict, but I think they can find a good balance.

    Though here's what worries me more about Snyder meeting with Miller:

    I don't want this to be overly dark and cynical. MOS was somber as it is, and I don't want it to go further. But if anything, hopefully they can play up and develop's Superman's lighter side more in contrast to Batman's edge.

    Also, I'm really thinking more of Snyder's trademarks are going to be here. I mean the slo mo. Because of MOS's success and his history with WB, I'm thinking he's gonna go all out with this, which means not be as restrained as he was like MOS. It's possible he could pull a Tim Burton and let his style in more. Or not.

    But honestly, we don't know what the hell Snyder is asking Miller about. Though him going to Miller is awfully specific. So it's not unreasonable to think the possibilities Snyder could be playing at. Snyder said they're not adapting it directly, it's just helping them, so for all we know he could be asking Miller how to approach Batman and Superman in the context of their story. How related or unrelated it is to TDKR we don't know.

    So really, just calm down people. I wouldn't start worrying until we see, you know, footage.

    I can see the marketing/merchandise already though: "Who's Side Are YOU On?"
     
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    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013

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