Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 Episode 12 "Seeds" Discussion Thread

[Endeavor]

Well, it can't be Simmons and Stark, otherwise she'd get pregnant; so, yeah, it would have to be Stark and Fitz.

lol
nah, Pepper wont have none of that

 

[Vartha]

Skye is Asgardian. That's my guess!

As cool as that would be I don't think she's Asgardian...she's not tall enough for one lol

 

[mkilban2]

Wow 42 votes and no "didn't like" or "hate" votes!

 

[Vartha]

Wow 42 votes and no "didn't like" or "hate" votes!

the only one who didn't like it was Jim Sterenko lol

 

[Tymminator]

As cool as that would be I don't think she's Asgardian...she's not tall enough for one lol

That one fella from "The Well"" was not a big dude...

 

[mkilban2]

the only one who didn't like it was Jim Sterenko lol

:

 

[Vartha]

That one fella from "The Well"" was not a big dude...

maybe he was with the berserker Staff lol (keep in mind I COULD have gone to the gutter with all that lol)

 

[Whiskey Tango]

the only one who didn't like it was Jim Sterenko lol

ha!

 

[Tymminator]

maybe he was with the berserker Staff lol (keep in mind I COULD have gone to the gutter with all that lol)

Fair enough, and point taken.

 

[Vartha]

Fair enough, and point taken.

you COULD be right tho. We don't know a 24 year old Asgardian might be short in the first place. lol

 

[Xeno]

I kind of got the impression that it was the people who were after her who killed everyone.

Either day, the mentioned the baby's parents, so it seems pretty clear to me that Skye was born to a human mother and father.

I don't recall a mention of the parents in this week's episode, only in the previous ones where Skye was going on about finding them. Specifically, she talked about her mother. When Coulson & May debriefed Lumley he didn't say anything about the object's parents, just that the village died protecting it (or so he assumed). The closest he came was mentioning the family, but not the mother and father specifically.

 

[Vartha]

here read this. Xeno. Silvermoon typed it out. Skye's ENTIRE VILLAGE was trying to save her, I highlighted the sentence that covers their deaths

I posted this in the General Discussion thread, figured I'd post it here as well. For those wondering/if it might help anyone that didn't catch all of it, here's the dialogue between Coulson, May & Lumley ( I typed it up for someone on IMDb that missed what was said). There may be some typos:

(spoiler tag for length)

Spoiler

Coulson: What did you think we were going to do to you?
Lumley: What they did to her.
Coulson: Agent Linda Avery?
Lumley: She wasn't the first one to die. We were headed into the Hunan province in China. Senior Agent called in a 0-8-4
Coulson: An object of unknown origin, we've dealt with those before.
Lumley: He said the entire village had died trying to protect this one. Avery and I were just fresh out of the Academy, there were five of us running the back end until we lost communication with the first team. We went searching, found the Senior Agent under a bridge, he managed to escape with a gunshot wound to the neck but he bled out. He was still holding onto the 0-8-4. Poor thing was covered in blood, we thought she was dead too, but she was just sleeping in a dead agent's arms
Coulson: Wait, the baby? The girl was the 0-8-4?!
Lumley: If she had powers or something we never witnessed it. The five of us helicoptered the kid off, headed home. After we landed we started getting crossed off.
Coulson: Executed.
Lumley: Tortured, heads bashed in. And when it came down to Avery and I we realized the only way to keep our people and the kid from being hunted...
Coulson: Was to erase her from existence.
Lumley: Avery was smart. She used a lead agent's credentials to fake a Level 8 clearance. She'd set up a nearly invisible protocol. The foster system was ordered to move the child around every few months.
Coulson: But they still got to Avery.
Lumley: She died protecting that secret.
Coulson: And you left town.
Lumley: I left everything. I mean, whoever killed that kid's family and all those agents was a force to be reckoned with.
May: And that girl...
Lumley: Don't tell me a damn thing about her, I don't wanna know. You understand? Just tell me, is she okay?
Coulson: She's safe.
Lumley: Then maybe it was all worth it. You taking me in?
May: Yeah.
Coulson: No. I'm not sure SHIELD is the safest place for you right now. We'll get in the air, drop you off somewhere along the route.
Lumley: Thank you. Bit of advice, stop digging and stay the hell away from that girl, because wherever she goes death follows.

 

[cherokeesam]

Haven't they specifically mentioned a few times now how breezing through social situations is something that comes to Skye very easily (when she crashed Quinn's party, talking Ward through the encounter with the guard in Russia, even with the bartender thing this week)?

Now that is probably some mix of natural persuasivness and/or whatever initial training she was supposed to be getting from Ward but it could also be indicating some kind of subtle psychic¹ or emotion control ability² and handily those also happen to be the sorts of powers one could be using without realizing it

¹ Coulson said they haven't documented any psychics yet, but we all know they're coming sooner or later and wouldn't it be fitting if the first one we discover was with us from the beginning?

² pheromones hrmmm

I've been thinking about pheromones and the popular fan theory that Skye might be Jessica Drew. I'm not entirely convinced, but I'm starting to wonder now.

Specifically, I wonder if the Hunan Massacre can be looked at from another angle: what if the reason that all these SHIELD agents and villagers willingly gave their lives to protect this mystery baby was that they were being controlled by pheromones....?

I know it's kinda wading out into LokiD territory, but suppose for an instant that Skye *is* Jessica Drew. Let's say she's genetically engineered by ---whomever, HYDRA, AIM, Centipede, space aliens, take your pick; and as a baby, she already has that pheromone power but doesn't know it yet. Then, there's some biologically engineered defense mechanism that is automatically triggered in the child to release a powerful dose of those pheromones to make all the people around her suddenly want to shield (heh, pun) her from any harm?

Just sayin'.

 

[Docker2.0]

:

Guess what I voted just to be "that guy".................you guessed it. I. Am. Awesome.


PS- I didn't hate the episode fyi. I just want attention.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I know it's kinda wading out into LokiD territory

Just sayin'.

it's all good, and it's all viable as far as I'm concerned. At this point I'm satisfied with having something written down so if it *does* pan out I can go HAHA I called it.

But seriously I don't think writers write this **** so we can figure it out. They know twenty thousand combined internet nerds will unravel their clues and plots faster than they can conceive them so there is really no use in trying to outright fool anyone.

So it all comes down to theatrics and nonsensical guesswork, or feels like it to me anyway.

But the self-preservation thing works. And I have resisted the Drew theories but have a hard time reminding myself that everyone gets a reboot in this universe so this actually could be a reworked origin of some kind.

And then my mind wanders to Chloe wearing spider-themed tights and arglebargle....

 

[cph9fa]

I'll admit I'm kinda torn between the Spiderwoman/pheromone theory, and the subconsciously-psychic theory. They're both really good.

 

[The Shrike]

1)....Those that have seen the last two episodes did it look like Skye had some remarkable bouts of luck....

Skye = Teela Brown

Defeat that superpower.

 

[mkilban2]

Guess what I voted just to be "that guy".................you guessed it. I. Am. Awesome.


PS- I didn't hate the episode fyi. I just want attention.

Haha I knew we could count on someone to do it after I jinxed it!

You must be fun at parties Docker

 

[starwolf_oakley]

One of the many SHIELD podcasts wondered if, after getting the information from Coulson, Skye would go to Simmons to ask for a blood test to see if there is anything out of the ordinary about her blood. A character being born with powers seems too close to "mutant," which is why all the characters we've seen so far get their powers later on.

 

[Human Torch]

Guess what I voted just to be "that guy".................you guessed it. I. Am. Awesome.


PS- I didn't hate the episode fyi. I just want attention.

Hang your head in SHAME!

 

[Xeno]

A couple of things that struck me about this episode:

• Why didn't SHIELD go after Seth's father for working with Quinn? They found out that the lawyer-dad had set up the deal to funnel funds and equipment to Seth & Donnie so they could make their machine. He was an accessory, yet no mention was made of taking him into custody.
  
• Now that SHIELD has proof of Quinn's criminal activities within the US, why doesn't it go after him under American laws, have him indicted and have his assets to be seized? Coulson wouldn't have to issue impotent threats against the billionaire if SHIELD were to have his personal and corporate assets tied up and a warrant issued for his arrest.
  
• Why was Donnie shipped off to the sandbox to be confined and observed, instead of getting the kid gloves treatment afforded to other criminally-minded people SHIELD has recruited like Skye and those two clowns in Item 47? Donnie is a certifiable genius whose inventions showed a lot of potential far beyond the ice/weather machine he created with Seth. It seemed odd that SHIELD wouldn't have assigned the kid a supervisor and put him right to work, with provisions that he be closely watched to keep him in line. That would have made more sense than just dumping a kid with so much potential and not continuing his training.

One of the many SHIELD podcasts wondered if, after getting the information from Coulson, Skye would go to Simmons to ask for a blood test to see if there is anything out of the ordinary about her blood. A character being born with powers seems too close to "mutant," which is why all the characters we've seen so far get their powers later on.

This is one of many reasons why I think that Skye doesn't actually have powers herself. Things happened around her, but that doesn't mean that anything happened directly because of her.

 

[fixxxer]

Why didn't SHIELD go after Seth's father for working with Quinn? They found out that the lawyer-dad had set up the deal to funnel funds and equipment to Seth & Donnie so they could make their machine. He was an accessory, yet no mention was made of taking him into custody.

Logically thinking about how SHIELD operates, I'm pretty sure this happened after the fact. Often, TV shows and movies don't necessarily show the more routine portions of investigations. The "clean-up" is usually implied.

Now that SHIELD has proof of Quinn's criminal activities within the US, why doesn't it go after him under American laws, have him indicted and have his assets to be seized? Coulson wouldn't have to issue impotent threats against the billionaire if SHIELD were to have his personal and corporate assets tied up and a warrant issued for his arrest.

I'm pretty sure the gauntlet Coulson dropped in the form of "fly over a SHIELD-allied country and we'll shoot you out of the sky" was just that. As the show has established, there are certain nations that SHIELD has no jurisdiction over. I'm pretty sure Quinn's public/known assets in SHIELD-allied countries have already been seized and/or frozen. However, for someone who is as adept at making the shadiest of deals for black market tech, I'm sure he's quite capable of moving money around quite easily. I mean, even in real life, cartel kingpins and the like get up to quite a bit of nonsense despite being quite publicly branded as enemies of (various) state(s).

Why was Donnie shipped off to the sandbox to be confined and observed, instead of getting the kid gloves treatment afforded to other criminally-minded people SHIELD has recruited like Skye and those two clowns in Item 47? Donnie is a certifiable genius whose inventions showed a lot of potential far beyond the ice/weather machine he created with Seth. It seemed odd that SHIELD wouldn't have assigned the kid a supervisor and put him right to work, with provisions that he be closely watched to keep him in line. That would have made more sense than just dumping a kid with so much potential and not continuing his training.

I actually agree with SHIELD's decision on this. Also, I think you're thinking about the Fridge, which is the containment unit that Coulson used to house the Gravitonium blob. The Sandbox is a research facility... it's where they dropped off the Chitauri helmet in the FZZT episode. Were I a SHIELD higher-up, I'm pretty sure I would take a want-and-see approach before continuing to train Donnie, considering his dangerous and quite criminal actions. Yea, the same can be said of the Item 47 goofballs (and possibly Skye), but those were Sitwell's and Coulson's respective judgement calls, I guess.

 

[Xeno]

Logically thinking about how SHIELD operates, I'm pretty sure this happened after the fact. Often, TV shows and movies don't necessarily show the more routine portions of investigations. The "clean-up" is usually implied.

I'm pretty sure the gauntlet Coulson dropped in the form of "fly over a SHIELD-allied country and we'll shoot you out of the sky" was just that. As the show has established, there are certain nations that SHIELD has no jurisdiction over. I'm pretty sure Quinn's public/known assets in SHIELD-allied countries have already been seized and/or frozen. However, for someone who is as adept at making the shadiest of deals for black market tech, I'm sure he's quite capable of moving money around quite easily. I mean, even in real life, cartel kingpins and the like get up to quite a bit of nonsense despite being quite publicly branded as enemies of (various) state(s).

I actually agree with SHIELD's decision on this. Also, I think you're thinking about the Fridge, which is the containment unit that Coulson used to house the Gravitonium blob. The Sandbox is a research facility... it's where they dropped off the Chitauri helmet in the FZZT episode. Were I a SHIELD higher-up, I'm pretty sure I would take a want-and-see approach before continuing to train Donnie, considering his dangerous and quite criminal actions. Yea, the same can be said of the Item 47 goofballs (and possibly Skye), but those were Sitwell's and Coulson's respective judgement calls, I guess.

It would have taken less than a minute for Coulson to mention that SHIELD had apprehended Seth's father, had frozen Quinn's assets (at least those that could be located) and planned to prosecute him. Quinn would have quite a bit hidden away, but if Skye was able to track the money trail back to him so easily then SHIELD and various governments should be able to do the same and more.

The way Donnie was handled really calls into question what was done with the other criminal recruits to SHIELD. The idiots who used a Chitauri in armed robberies did a lot more harm than he and Seth did, what with attacking innocent civilians in several states, stealing tens of thousands of dollars and nearly killing an agent. Skye repeatedly hacked SHIELD's computers and helped a cohort who was partially responsible for the kidnapping, torture and eventual death of an asset. Natasha Romanoff committed an undisclosed number of murders before being recruited.

Yet of all of those, this kid who created an incredible piece of technology is the one who wasn't recruited for active duty but instead got sent to a research facility for "observation." Coulson specifically said that Donnie would not be allowed to participate in research at the Sandbox but instead would be held to make sure he didn't create anything else. That, to me, was stupid and wasteful. SHIELD should have put the kid to work and had someone mentoring him to channel his talents into positive outlets. If they could do that with people who aren't as intelligent or talented, surely they could do that with Donnie.

 

[cherokeesam]

This is one of many reasons why I think that Skye doesn't actually have powers herself. Things happened around her, but that doesn't mean that anything happened directly because of her.

Except the rogue agent said that death follows her wherever she goes. And there's the fact that hundreds of people fought and died to protect/capture her in Hunan Province alone.

She's either got powers, or she's the Messiah...or the Antichrist. People don't lay down their lives in an all-out war for a baby unless they think the child is either mankind's greatest hope or greatest curse.

 

[fixxxer]

It would have taken less than a minute for Coulson to mention that SHIELD had apprehended Seth's father, had frozen Quinn's assets (at least those that could be located) and planned to prosecute him. Quinn would have quite a bit hidden away, but if Skye was able to track the money trail back to him so easily then SHIELD and various governments should be able to do the same and more.

I won't begrudge a narrative shortcut for not spending more time on someone (Seth's father) who was basically used in a throwaway line. I forgot that Seth's dad was even mentioned until you brought it up.

Skye was on to a specific money trail. I'm sure someone at the level of Quinn has dozens or even hundreds of black market channels. My point, however, is that when Coulson threatened Quinn's very life by saying he'll have him shot out of the sky, I'm sure that the freezing of his assets and accounts in the US and/or other SHIELD-allied nations is pretty much implicit... if it hadn't been done already.

The way Donnie was handled really calls into question what was done with the other criminal recruits to SHIELD. The idiots who used a Chitauri in armed robberies did a lot more harm than he and Seth did, what with attacking innocent civilians in several states, stealing tens of thousands of dollars and nearly killing an agent. Skye repeatedly hacked SHIELD's computers and helped a cohort who was partially responsible for the kidnapping, torture and eventual death of an asset. Natasha Romanoff committed an undisclosed number of murders before being recruited.

Yet of all of those, this kid who created an incredible piece of technology is the one who wasn't recruited for active duty but instead got sent to a research facility for "observation." Coulson specifically said that Donnie would not be allowed to participate in research at the Sandbox but instead would be held to make sure he didn't create anything else. That, to me, was stupid and wasteful. SHIELD should have put the kid to work and had someone mentoring him to channel his talents into positive outlets. If they could do that with people who aren't as intelligent or talented, surely they could do that with Donnie.

Donnie and Seth could have caused a lot more potential harm though. Chitauri tech or not, the Item 47 dolts were basically low level stick up artists. Skye was initially basically a Wikileaks allegory, which they quickly (and thankfully) backpedalled from in the middle episodes. Donnie and Seth on the other hand were basically selling off a piece of insanely destructive tech to a known villain. I know, in those cases, and Romanoff and even Mike Peterson, SHIELD could have put the kibosk on any them, but I trust the judgement of the individual agents here, namely Sitwell, Coulson and Barton, who thought they could channel these folks into assets for SHIELD. For whatever reason, this wasn't the case with Donnie. Maybe their psyche evals betrayed some latent darkness in him. Maybe the "observation" period is merely probationary (like Skye's bracelet) and they'll continue to train him if they believe he can truly align himself with SHIELD's ideals in the future.