Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 1 Episode 12 "Seeds" Discussion Thread

[Endeavor]

1) Until I see this episode can any of you confirm whether or not the village was killed defending Skye or her mother from either some undisclosed enemy or because the SHIELD Agents refused to stand down and were ultimately responsible because their backups may have arrived and completely misunderstood what had happened leaving only one survivor... Skye?

It's definitely a different entity from SHIELD that started the massacre. Just like in the 084 we've seen there were 3 factions going for it... The surviving agent's words were something along the lines of "an entire village protecting her was exterminated". Them, plus the first SHIELD team that was running point on the mission, before the second team to which he belonged arrived. Aside from SHIELDs shady side, I doubt they've have them massacre a village... .

2) So someone killed Skye's foster parents?
That either suggests someone is watching over her or they're after someone else and need Skye left alive to try and draw them out...

I don't recall mention of her foster parents being killed, just that the protocol established by the agent that saved Skye had her being transferred every so often.

3) It could be coincedence that Skye's foster parents suffer from a particularly awful bad luck... reminds me of Longshot or perhaps the Black Cat works better at one stage since she did have probability manipulation... heck Mr Peterson's luck went as bad as you can get and still be alive after all!

I also considered the comments about death following her to mean maybe bad luck is in her power set? Doesn't Spider Woman have an obscure bad luck power too?

 

[Guard82]

This episode was well-done. The pacing of the story was good and didn't feel too slow or too fast. Some of the pacing in previous episodes felt too slow, but not in this one. I liked how they expanded on the world of SHIELD as an organization, similar to how they did so in the episode "The Hub."

Here, we got to see the campus of one of the SHIELD academies for young trainees, specifically young scientists-in-training. We now know from this episode that there are at least three different SHIELD schools: Science, Operations and Communications. I wonder if there are any more schools. It was neat to see the rivalry between the Science and Operations schools, and the idea that Communications was supposedly "easy" to get into was funny.

Fitz and Simmons again got a chance to shine in this episode. Especially Fitz, he got some great moments. The connection he formed with Donnie Gill was handled nicely, and it increased my interest in both characters.

Speaking of Donnie, I thought he was handled extremely well, and the actor who played him made me really interested in his character. They set up a solid origin story for Blizzard as the supervillain Donnie will presumably return as. I noticed that for this version of Blizzard, they combined some elements of the first Blizzard in the comics (Gregor Shapanka) with some elements of the second Blizzard (Donnie Gill) and added some new layers of character to make him a character who fits in well with this show's world. All in all, I thought it was well-done.

I also liked the development of Skye's past and some parts of her mystery story. Coulson's continuing struggle with the recently revealed secrets about his resurrection was nicely done too. The ice storm scene was pretty cool and well-executed. Overall, a very solid episode.

 

[Silvermoon]

I posted this in the General Discussion thread, figured I'd post it here as well. For those wondering/if it might help anyone that didn't catch all of it, here's the dialogue between Coulson, May & Lumley ( I typed it up for someone on IMDb that missed what was said). There may be some typos:

(spoiler tag for length)

Spoiler

Coulson: What did you think we were going to do to you?
Lumley: What they did to her.
Coulson: Agent Linda Avery?
Lumley: She wasn't the first one to die. We were headed into the Hunan province in China. Senior Agent called in a 0-8-4
Coulson: An object of unknown origin, we've dealt with those before.
Lumley: He said the entire village had died trying to protect this one. Avery and I were just fresh out of the Academy, there were five of us running the back end until we lost communication with the first team. We went searching, found the Senior Agent under a bridge, he managed to escape with a gunshot wound to the neck but he bled out. He was still holding onto the 0-8-4. Poor thing was covered in blood, we thought she was dead too, but she was just sleeping in a dead agent's arms
Coulson: Wait, the baby? The girl was the 0-8-4?!
Lumley: If she had powers or something we never witnessed it. The five of us helicoptered the kid off, headed home. After we landed we started getting crossed off.
Coulson: Executed.
Lumley: Tortured, heads bashed in. And when it came down to Avery and I we realized the only way to keep our people and the kid from being hunted...
Coulson: Was to erase her from existence.
Lumley: Avery was smart. She used a lead agent's credentials to fake a Level 8 clearance. She'd set up a nearly invisible protocol. The foster system was ordered to move the child around every few months.
Coulson: But they still got to Avery.
Lumley: She died protecting that secret.
Coulson: And you left town.
Lumley: I left everything. I mean, whoever killed that kid's family and all those agents was a force to be reckoned with.
May: And that girl...
Lumley: Don't tell me a damn thing about her, I don't wanna know. You understand? Just tell me, is she okay?
Coulson: She's safe.
Lumley: Then maybe it was all worth it. You taking me in?
May: Yeah.
Coulson: No. I'm not sure SHIELD is the safest place for you right now. We'll get in the air, drop you off somewhere along the route.
Lumley: Thank you. Bit of advice, stop digging and stay the hell away from that girl, because wherever she goes death follows.

 

[wobbly]

1) Until I see this episode can any of you confirm whether or not the village was killed defending Skye or her mother from either some undisclosed enemy or because the SHIELD Agents refused to stand down and were ultimately responsible because their backups may have arrived and completely misunderstood what had happened leaving only one survivor... Skye?

Unknown as to how they died (presumed to be from an armed assault). All we know is that her entire village and the advance Shield team sent in for the '084' (all but one) were killed there, and that sole surviving agent died still holding her (had been mortally wounded from a shot to their neck).

2) So someone killed Skye's foster parents?

No. Once she was in the foster care system she was deliberately bounced around different homes thanks to Agent Avery's orders, to hide her trail from anyone looking for her (Skye always thought none of the homes she was sent to wanted her, but she was being moved around on purpose to protect her)

That either suggests someone is watching over her or they're after someone else and need Skye left alive to try and draw them out...

I think once Avery's plan was in place (and she was killed shortly afterwards) no-one was directly watching over Skye or knew where she'd come from or where she had disappeared to (Avery''s plan suggests she was hidden from Shield as well as they couldn't be trusted either. Someone got to Avery after all). Whoever was after Skye as a baby are likely still looking for her.

3) It could be coincedence that Skye's foster parents suffer from a particularly awful bad luck... reminds me of Longshot or perhaps the Black Cat works better at one stage since she did have probability manipulation... heck Mr Peterson's luck went as bad as you can get and still be alive after all!

I don't think there's anything there. I think Coulson's whole team would be toast by now if she were really some bad luck charm.

4) Those that have seen the last two episodes did it look like Skye had some remarkable bouts of luck accomplishing her tasks such as finding Coulson, rescuing him even though the place ought to have been heavily protected... I saw a clip on you tube where she gave Raina a black eye!

Wouldn't rule it out but I don't think myself there's any good/bad luck charm thing going on with her atm.

Hmm... how do SHIELD suppress the abilities of a powered individual?
Scorch certainly didn't have some kind of power negator, how will Blizzard cope?

With Skye, they have no idea what powers she may or may not have as yet. The agents who rescued her never saw anything, they were only told she had powers.

With others we have not seen any evidence yet Shield can actually suppress a Supers powers, other than coming up with ways to knock them out (the gadget Fitz & Simmons whipped up to take down Centipede soldiers for example), or contain them (Graviton, though they didn't know he was still alive, is locked away in vault).

 

[Vartha]

Thanks again Silver!

I posted this in the General Discussion thread, figured I'd post it here as well. For those wondering/if it might help anyone that didn't catch all of it, here's the dialogue between Coulson, May & Lumley ( I typed it up for someone on IMDb that missed what was said). There may be some typos:

(spoiler tag for length)

Spoiler

Coulson: What did you think we were going to do to you?
Lumley: What they did to her.
Coulson: Agent Linda Avery?
Lumley: She wasn't the first one to die. We were headed into the Hunan province in China. Senior Agent called in a 0-8-4
Coulson: An object of unknown origin, we've dealt with those before.
Lumley: He said the entire village had died trying to protect this one. Avery and I were just fresh out of the Academy, there were five of us running the back end until we lost communication with the first team. We went searching, found the Senior Agent under a bridge, he managed to escape with a gunshot wound to the neck but he bled out. He was still holding onto the 0-8-4. Poor thing was covered in blood, we thought she was dead too, but she was just sleeping in a dead agent's arms
Coulson: Wait, the baby? The girl was the 0-8-4?!
Lumley: If she had powers or something we never witnessed it. The five of us helicoptered the kid off, headed home. After we landed we started getting crossed off.
Coulson: Executed.
Lumley: Tortured, heads bashed in. And when it came down to Avery and I we realized the only way to keep our people and the kid from being hunted...
Coulson: Was to erase her from existence.
Lumley: Avery was smart. She used a lead agent's credentials to fake a Level 8 clearance. She'd set up a nearly invisible protocol. The foster system was ordered to move the child around every few months.
Coulson: But they still got to Avery.
Lumley: She died protecting that secret.
Coulson: And you left town.
Lumley: I left everything. I mean, whoever killed that kid's family and all those agents was a force to be reckoned with.
May: And that girl...
Lumley: Don't tell me a damn thing about her, I don't wanna know. You understand? Just tell me, is she okay?
Coulson: She's safe.
Lumley: Then maybe it was all worth it. You taking me in?
May: Yeah.
Coulson: No. I'm not sure SHIELD is the safest place for you right now. We'll get in the air, drop you off somewhere along the route.
Lumley: Thank you. Bit of advice, stop digging and stay the hell away from that girl, because wherever she goes death follows.

 

[Guard82]

I'm thinking that Ian Quinn should be feeling pretty nervous at this point. It seems like everybody may be out to get him!

SHIELD, of course, has always been after him, but after this latest stunt at the science academy, they'll really be going after Quinn with a vengeance from now on. They'll try to do anything possible to make life difficult for ol' Ian after that near-disaster at the school.

Franklin Hall, who will inevitably return as Graviton, probably still has it in for Quinn.

Donnie Gill, as we saw in this episode, has ample reason to hate Quinn. He may definitely go after Quinn in the near future as Blizzard.

And now the Clairvoyant is apparently working with Quinn. This may be bad news for Quinn, even if he doesn't realize it yet. As we saw with Edison Po, the Clairvoyant could easily turn on Quinn, with lethal consequences.

Between SHIELD, Graviton, Blizzard, and a possible betrayal by the Clairvoyant, Quinn had better be watching his back from this point on.

 

[wobbly]

I also considered the comments about death following her to mean maybe bad luck is in her power set? Doesn't Spider Woman have an obscure bad luck power too?

The Black Cat does but I can't say I've seen Spider-Woman display that. She does have a pheromone thing going on with her though that can make people either attracted to her, repulsed, or terrified by her.

 

[Endeavor]

Despite the little robots and miracle cures we've already seen it hasn't quite clicked for me until now just how brilliant FitzSimmons are supposed to be. SHIELD Academy's youngest graduates is quite impressive. Now I'm wondering how they stack up to guys like Stark and Banner. They're getting a good showing this episode.

I was thinking the same thing right around the time they were giving their speech. I want to see Fitz in a scene with Tony and Simmons with Bruce!

 

[Endeavor]

The Black Cat does but I can't say I've seen Spider-Woman display that. She does have a pheromone thing going on with her though that can make people either attracted to her, repulsed, or terrified by her.

That's what it was! I didn't remember exactly.

 

[Vartha]

The Black Cat does but I can't say I've seen Spider-Woman display that. She does have a pheromone thing going on with her though that can make people either attracted to her, repulsed, or terrified by her.

When Jessica first appeared I can remember her saying people treated her like the plague before she even knew she had pheromone powers other than her bio sting.

 

[Vartha]

That's what it was! I didn't remember exactly.

yeah, Scarlet Witch, Longshot and Black Cat all have similar powers, but Spider-woman was genetically MADE by High Evolutionary

 

[cph9fa]

Thanks for the transcript, Silvermoon!

I had remembered Lumley saying something about her having powers and not seeing them. But I must have missed the key word "If", which indicates that it's complete speculation on his part, not something the senior agent told him (how convenient he was shot in the throat!). In other words, she's a 0-8-4, and it may or may not be because of powers. And of course, everyone who would have known why is dead (or else trying to capture her).

Now that I think about it, that feels a lot more like a deliberate misdirection on the part of the writers, like all the early LMD hints about Coulson. Which suggests that maybe she doesn't have powers, and there's something else going on... I don't know.

I wonder if the team is actually going to be proactive for a change -- they could look up SHIELD records of an 0-8-4 mission in Hunan province from '89/'90, then visit whatever village got massacred. It could be that they find a survivor in the area. Maybe they request some help, and this mission is where Bill Paxton's character gets his 4-episode arc.

Or they could continue to be reactive, and just wait for the bad guys to catch up to Skye.

 

[wobbly]

When Jessica first appeared I can remember her saying people treated her like the plague before she even knew she had pheromone powers other than her bio sting.

Well, the original idea for her was that she was evolved into human form by the High Evolutionary from a spider (they toyed with the same idea for Wolveine btw, that he was evolved from an actual Wolverine). As many humans as not have an instinctive fear of Spiders so I think they were just going with that as being part of her deal: Others were instinctively reacting to her presence as if she was a spider.

They soon ret-conned her origin so she was originally a normal human girl and brought in the pheromone thing to explain all the previous stuff with people being scared and repulsed by her.

 

[Endeavor]

When Jessica first appeared I can remember her saying people treated her like the plague before she even knew she had pheromone powers other than her bio sting.

That's probably why I made the correlation between her pheromones and bad luck powers

 

[Destructus86]

Skye is Asgardian. That's my guess!

 

[cherokeesam]

Skye is Asgardian. That's my guess!

A Valkyrie? That'd be cool.
She doesn't show much aptitude for fighting, though. If she really *is* a "gifted" hacker, maybe it points to her being from a race with advanced computer technology, or being an android/cyborg.

Hell, maybe she's Phalanx.

 

[iambranded]

yeah, Scarlet Witch, Longshot and Black Cat all have similar powers, but Spider-woman was genetically MADE by High Evolutionary

you just gave me something to think about. Maybe the Clairvoyant is the High Evolutionary..... could be

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Haven't they specifically mentioned a few times now how breezing through social situations is something that comes to Skye very easily (when she crashed Quinn's party, talking Ward through the encounter with the guard in Russia, even with the bartender thing this week)?

Now that is probably some mix of natural persuasivness and/or whatever initial training she was supposed to be getting from Ward but it could also be indicating some kind of subtle psychic¹ or emotion control ability² and handily those also happen to be the sorts of powers one could be using without realizing it

¹ Coulson said they haven't documented any psychics yet, but we all know they're coming sooner or later and wouldn't it be fitting if the first one we discover was with us from the beginning?

² pheromones hrmmm

 

[cph9fa]

Haven't they specifically mentioned a few times now how breezing through social situations is something that comes to Skye very easily (when she crashed Quinn's party, talking Ward through the encounter with the guard in Russia, even with the bartender thing this week)?

Now that is probably some mix of natural persuasivness and/or whatever initial training she was supposed to be getting from Ward but it could also be indicating some kind of subtle psychic (Coulson said they haven't documented any psychics yet, but we all know they're coming sooner or later and wouldn't it be fitting if the first one we discover was with us from the beginning?) or emotion control ability (pheromones hrmmm) and handily those also happen to be the sorts of powers one could be using without realizing it.

Interesting...

She is very adept at social situations, though nothing yet that would I qualify as necessarily superhuman (and don't forget her impersonating May! Or talking with the lady from the Ghost episode.). So far if comes off as a natural streetwise persuasiveness (I kinda doubt any of it came from Ward's training ). It certainly could tie into the Jessica Drew/pheromones route (I've thought that for a while) if that's indeed the way they go.

Although it would also be extremely ironic if she became SHIELD's first documented psychic. That's exactly the kind of foreshadowing humor + misdirection that Whedon would do.
1) Confirm multiple times to Skye there are no psychics (Amador).
2) Introduce a seemingly psychic villain (Clairvoyant).
3) Show that he uses technology of some sort, and isn't psychic.
4) Have Skye suddenly discover that she is psychic.
That's so Whedon, that now I have a hard time seeing that not happening. I think you nailed it!

 

[The Question]

I think her super nature is going to be something a little grander in scope than weird empathic powers or whatever. I think she's going to end up being like Dawn over on Buffy. Her power makes her able to achieve some big deal, reality warping, world ending nonsense, but it's not something she can necessarily use or take advantage of on a regular basis. She's the key or catalyst to something huge, but it doesn't give her superpowers in any practical sense. That feels like the direction they'd go in.

 

[Xeno]

A Valkyrie? That'd be cool.
She doesn't show much aptitude for fighting, though. If she really *is* a "gifted" hacker, maybe it points to her being from a race with advanced computer technology, or being an android/cyborg.

Hell, maybe she's Phalanx.

I'm sticking with Makluan. Her backstory matches Fin Fang Foom too closely to be a pure coincidence.

 

[The Question]

I'm sticking with Makluan. Her backstory matches Fin Fang Foom too closely to be a pure coincidence.

Her backstory only matches Fin Fang Foom insofar as China being in there somewhere.

 

[Xeno]

Her backstory only matches Fin Fang Foom insofar as China being in there somewhere.

When Fin was discovered in modern China, he destroyed an entire village before being returned to his slumbers. What happened when Skye/Fin was discovered? An entire village was slaughtered, then a SHIELD agent died and she was found peacefully slumbering in the poor man's arms. Obviously something pacified the creature just like her comic book counterpart.


Makluans can assume human form and stay that way for centuries, sometimes forgetting their alien ancestry altogether until they are forcibly snapped out of their amnesiac state. Presumably that's where Skye/Fin is now, convinced that she's human just because the has gone scaly all over and slaughtered hundreds in a mindless rampage. Again.

 

[Shakel92]

I was thinking the same thing right around the time they were giving their speech. I want to see Fitz in a scene with Tony and Simmons with Bruce!

Well, it can't be Simmons and Stark, otherwise she'd get pregnant; so, yeah, it would have to be Stark and Fitz.

 

[The Question]

When Fin was discovered in modern China, he destroyed an entire village before being returned to his slumbers. What happened when Skye/Fin was discovered? An entire village was slaughtered, then a SHIELD agent died and she was found peacefully slumbering in the poor man's arms. Obviously something pacified the creature just like her comic book counterpart.

I kind of got the impression that it was the people who were after her who killed everyone.

Either day, the mentioned the baby's parents, so it seems pretty clear to me that Skye was born to a human mother and father.