BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[jasontodd]

Can't wait for Justice League to start filming. Hopefully we get set pics sooner rather than later.

Not surprisingly still waiting on an answer to my previous post regarding why it's okay to use inferences and leaps of logic to justify "plot holes" or inconsistencies in the Marvel films, but it's not okay to do the same when justifying them in Batman V Superman.

 

[MrsKent26]

It will be a terrible shame if the studio philosophy shifts from original content to franchises though. WB has always been a very film maker friendly studios and more willing to take risks with things like Inception and Gravity. For them to concentrate more on big name properties is a shift that isn't good in the long run. No matter how big of a DC fan one is them doing that isn't good news for films in general.

Indeed. Even as a superhero fan, I don't want a market that's comprised almost entirely of superhero films.

 

[Supernova]

Me thinks the WB suits need to be sat down and explained how quickly, efficiently and financially responsible Marvel Studios was created:

Spoiler

By 2005, Marvel Entertainment began planning to independently produce its own films and distribute them through Paramount Pictures.[2] Previously, Marvel had co-produced several superhero films with Columbia Pictures, New Line Cinema and others, including a seven-year development deal with 20th Century Fox.[3] Marvel made relatively little profit from its licensing deals with other studios and wanted to get more money out of its films while maintaining artistic control of the projects and distribution.[4] Avi Arad, head of Marvel's film division, was pleased with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man films at Columbia, but was less pleased about others. As a result, they decided to form Marvel Studios, Hollywood's first major independent movie studio since DreamWorks.[5]

Arad's second-in-command,[5] Kevin Feige, realized that unlike Spider-Man and the X-Men, whose film rights were licensed to Columbia and Fox respectively, Marvel still owned the rights to the core members of The Avengers. Feige, a self-professed fanboy, envisioned creating a shared universe just as creators Stan Lee and Jack Kirby had done with their comic books in the early 1960s.[6] To raise capital, the studio secured funding from a seven-year, $525 million revolving credit facility with Merrill Lynch.[4] Marvel's plan was to release individual films for their main characters and then merge them together in a crossover film.[7] Arad, who doubted the strategy yet insisted that it was his reputation that helped secure the initial financing, resigned the following year.[5][8]

In 2007, at 33 years old, Feige was named studio chief. In order to preserve its artistic integrity, Marvel Studios formed a six-person creative committee with people familiar with its comic book lore that included Feige, Marvel Studios co-president Louis D'Esposito, Marvel Comics' president of publishing Dan Buckley, Marvel's chief creative officer Joe Quesada, writer Brian Michael Bendis, and Marvel Entertainment president Alan Fine, who oversaw the committee.[5] [/B]

Look where they got in a decade. Ten years. Not long at all.

that whole situation could have gone just as wrong as it did right. Marvel struck gold with downey jr and favreau as well as disney buying them and giving them unbelievable money and creative resources.

 

[-Arya-]

With Geoff Johns unavailable, WB really needs to take advantage of Bruce Timm, Paul Dini ,Alan Burnett and other people who have extensive knowledge of DC characters.

 

[jmc]

Indeed. Even as a superhero fan, I don't want a market that's comprised almost entirely of superhero films.

Or franchises in general. I fear that Disney has created a shift in the way studios are looking at movies now, where franchises are essentially controlling which films get made. This is not good news.

 

[craigdbfan]

With Geoff Johns unavailable, WB really needs to take advantage of Bruce Timm, Paul Dini ,Alan Burnett and other people who have extensive knowledge of DC characters.

It would be too smart and obvious of a move. It'll never happen.

 

[chintai80]

Lets not pretend that whole situation could have gone just as wrong as it did right. Marvel struck gold with downey jr and favreau as well as disney buying them and giving them unbelievable money and creative resources.

the part poni_boy bolded is the key.

WB is missing that. they don't have a braintrust that cares about artistic integrity and the comic book material.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Lets not pretend that whole situation could have gone just as wrong as it did right. Marvel struck gold with downey jr and favreau as well as disney buying them and giving them unbelievable money and creative resources.

You know, people make it sound like Marvel just got lucky with Iron Man. They put A LOT of thought and research into it. For example:

In November 2005, Marvel Studios worked to start development from scratch,[40] and announced Iron Man as their first independent feature, as the character was their only major one not already depicted in live action.[5] According to associate producer Jeremy Latcham, "we went after about 30 writers and they all passed", saying they were uninterested in the project due to both the relative obscurity of the character and it being a solely Marvel production. Even the rewrites when the film had a script lead to many refusals.[41] In order to gain more awareness for Iron Man to the general public, and put him on the same level of popularity as Spider-Man or Hulk, Marvel conducted focus groups to help remove the general thought that the character was a robot, despite a man being inside the armor. After the groups proved successful, the information Marvel received helped them formulate a plan to "build awareness ahead of the movie's release", which included three animated short films called "Iron Man Advertorials", which were produced by Tim Miller and Blur Studio.[42]


That's right, Tom Miller the director of Deadpool. Also, you know who was trying to make an Iron Man movie before Marvel? Warner Bros and New Line. With Joss Whedon directing.

 

[Supernova]

Indeed. Even as a superhero fan, I don't want a market that's comprised almost entirely of superhero films.

Thx to lack of creativity and the hero boom this is what alot of people have feared coming from studios for a decade. As i have said there is gonna be a time when the superhero fstigue sets in and its gonna catch alot of studios off gaurd with there pants down

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I've been saying it - WB lacks leadership for it's DC films. Snyder is de facto in charge and thats' the problem. If they want to be like Disney they have to start acting like Disney.

The problem is the over-reliance on Geoff Johns. He has too many jobs right now for DC. They need a full time continuity manager for their cinematic universe. It must be more important than any other media, be it print, TV, merchandise, animated films... Movies reach exponentially more customers than any other media. Get a dedicated guy to run it. It can't be a conglomeration of Snyder and Johns. They are both too busy with their own projects and Snyder has proven with two movies that he is not an ideal choice.

That has to start with Aquaman, Flash; be fully implemented for Justice League 2. They'll have to follow Snyder's foundation, but luckily the rest of the league isn't fleshed out.

 

[Vaibow]

Let's be totally realistic - if Snyder left the project (there studio can spin it anyway they want) the majority of GA will not care one bit - if trailers look good, if reviews are good, they will go see.
There fan boys will know the real reason why he left - it seems the majority will be happy. So, why the problem? Get rid, move on, let's enjoy.

I personally think Justice League should be renamed, tweaked to be more of a solo movie, i mean, sure, superman cannot have a stand alone movie - [BLACKOUT]he is dead[/BLACKOUT] - but if this an Atlantis heavy movie - call it Aqua man. Sure, it could not be the solo movie they wanted, but it can be salvaged.

 

[-Arya-]

It would be too smart and obvious of a move. It'll never happen.

It's just incredibly frustrating to watch all this unfold; with my favorite characters no less. However, I'm not ready to throw in the towel until I see SS and WW first.

 

[craigdbfan]

WB also doesn't have the money Disney does but they may want to consider a smarter internal restructuring to better prepare themselves for this endeavor of primarily making tentpole films.

They seem to kind of just go into things blindly and then betting everything on the auteur/director they pick.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

In order to preserve its artistic integrity, Marvel Studios formed a six-person creative committee with people familiar with its comic book lore

So? WB has Zack Snyder who has prodigious knowledge of the comics. They don't need anyone else.

 

[Poni_Boy]

WB also doesn't have the money Disney does but they may want to consider a smarter internal restructuring to better prepare themselves for this endeavor of primarily making tentpole films.

They seem to kind of just go into things blindly and then betting everything on the auteur/director they pick.

There's no foresight. A cinematic universe is like a marathon and they're running it like wind sprints. They're fizzling out before they get a chance to find their pace.

 

[danoyse]

WB also doesn't have the money Disney does but they may want to consider a smarter internal restructuring to better prepare themselves for this endeavor of primarily making tentpole films.

They seem to kind of just go into things blindly and then betting everything on the auteur/director they pick.

But it sounds like if they invested the kind of framework the other studios have to build a franchise, they would be making that kind of money. Right now they’re just running their properties into the ground.

 

[Supernova]

You know, people make it sound like Marvel just got lucky with Iron Man. They put A LOT of thought and research into it. For example:

In November 2005, Marvel Studios worked to start development from scratch,[40] and announced Iron Man as their first independent feature, as the character was their only major one not already depicted in live action.[5] According to associate producer Jeremy Latcham, "we went after about 30 writers and they all passed", saying they were uninterested in the project due to both the relative obscurity of the character and it being a solely Marvel production. Even the rewrites when the film had a script lead to many refusals.[41] In order to gain more awareness for Iron Man to the general public, and put him on the same level of popularity as Spider-Man or Hulk, Marvel conducted focus groups to help remove the general thought that the character was a robot, despite a man being inside the armor. After the groups proved successful, the information Marvel received helped them formulate a plan to "build awareness ahead of the movie's release", which included three animated short films called "Iron Man Advertorials", which were produced by Tim Miller and Blur Studio.[42]


That's right, Tom Miller the director of Deadpool. Also, you know who was trying to make an Iron Man movie before Marvel? Warner Bros and New Line. With Joss Whedon directing.

They absolutely got lucky with ironman 1, they pushed all there chips to the middle of the table and won. Who the heck was knkcking down downeys door especially for a lead role. Who the heCk even knew much about ironman? Marvel wasnt exactly knocking movies out of the park pre 2008. Spiderman 2 was 2004 and after it was all garbage until ironman 1. If you cant admit to them catching lighting in a bottle and that it was planned to do what it did there you more of a marvel mark then I realized.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Marvel struck gold with downey jr and favreau as well as disney buying them and giving them unbelievable money and creative resources.

All the phase one movies barring Avengers were made on relatively smaller budgets with Ike Perlmutter's cheap ass penny pinching the actors. So 'unbelievable money' didn't factor into their formation.

 

[chintai80]

So? WB has Zack Snyder who has prodigious knowledge of the comics. They don't need anyone else.

u're being sarcastic right?

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Thx to lack of creativity and the hero boom this is what alot of people have feared coming from studios for a decade. As i have said there is gonna be a time when the superhero fstigue sets in and its gonna catch alot of studios off gaurd with there pants down

One plus with Deadpool and one minus with BvS, let's see how the other 4 CBMs do before we jump to that place. This may be the peak, but audiences are used to duds in the action & adventure genre. CBMs are the westerns of the 60s, the cop dramas of the 70s, the action stars of the 80s, the martial arts stars of the 90s... I think we can thank the Matrix in all honesty for the current state of action and adventure. It may change, but for now, with CGI, we are able to make superheroes look awesome. You can mix every element of the sub-genres of past into CBMs with the added bonus of abilities!

 

[Poni_Boy]

They absolutely got lucky with ironman 1, they pushed all there chips to the middle of the table and won. Who the heck was knkcking down downeys door especially for a lead role. Who the heCk even knew much about ironman? Marvel wasnt exactly knocking movies out of the park pre 2008. Spiderman 2 was 2004 and after it was all garbage until ironman 1. If you cant admit to them catching lighting in a bottle and that it was planned to do what it did there you more of a marvel mark then I realized.

Lol dude your frustration is cute but totally silly. I'm not the one screwing up the DCU don't get mad at me. Catching lighting in a bottle and coming about something by pure luck at totally different things. Marvel put three years of research and development into their first movie (Iron Man). They weren't throwing **** on the wall and hoping something stuck. Was it a bigger success than expected? Of course. But they didn't come about making that movie piecemeal. They weren't desperate, they were focused. They weren't crossing their fingers and hoping for the best, they were working hard to make it so. Don't hate on them for doing what DC obviously can't. It's silly.

 

[Supernova]

All the phase one movies barring Avengers were made on relatively smaller budgets with Ike Perlmutter's cheap ass penny pinching the actors. So 'unbelievable money' didn't factor into their formation.

True but once disney came in then the money and resources increased dramatically heading into phase 2

 

[Tacit Ronin]

True but once disney came in then the money and resources increased dramatically heading into phase 2

That doesn't change the fact that the bedrock of the MCU was built on relative frugality.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

WB should just let DC animation people do live action. What's there to lose?

 

[Poni_Boy]

That doesn't change the fact that the bedrock of the MCU was built on relative frugality.

You know what people don't realize about "lighting in a bottle"? It takes a real dedicated guy to stand in a thunderstorm holding a fracking kite to get it. DC needs that guy. Right now they just have a bunch of folks trying to catch fireflies in ziplock bags.