BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 295

[Gianakin_]

Hell, even Burton's was more than fine. A relentless POS shoots them. Helps with the "They died for no reason at all" thing Batman's been saying.

 

[Steamteck]

I wonder how the people at DC Comics (not WB) are reacting to all of this? I mean, the whole brand kinda depends on the movies. If this keeps going on (divisive / poorly received movies) it's gonna hurt the brand. And Marvel is getting bigger by the hour.

That is true. I love the present DCEU as much as the MCU and I feel their are lots of preconceptions clouding folks minds about it. I also feel although I see almost everything in his films that many of you don't so I believe they are there just somehow his style doesn't convey to a number of people, they probably need to alter the tone and make more family friendly. As other directors come maybe it will help.

I guess I should be thankful these two, for me, great movies were made and not to feel too cheated by circumstances.

I try not to rain on other people's parade but to me TDKR was one of the worst Batman movies possible yet although considered lesser still got a lot of praise and I think having a Batman ( and Superman and Wonder Woman) I really like and the movie I honestly love to get such a reception infuriates me and makes me sad this ride won't last.

 

[Cobblepot]

Are we really nitpicking about everything?
Yeah it was dumb of Thomas to try and fight back, does it sometimes happen in real life? Yes it does. Is it Thomas his fault he and his wife got shot because of it? No, the guy that pulled the trigger is to blame.
Not more too it than that.

 

[Gianakin_]

Make sure you apply that logic next time (which I hope never comes, btw) someone threatens you with a weapon.

The guy was a mugger, not necessarily a murderer. You give him your money and the thing is over for good. Especially when you're Thomas effing Wayne.

 

[AnneFan]

Thomas resists the mugger in the original 1939 version of the murder.

 

[Gianakin_]

Well, the 30s gave us Hitler's rise to power and beating women was still ok. A lot of things then weren't good ideas.

 

[Lucellit]

It was stupid. If you're gonna make a movie like this know what to adapt and what NOT to adapt.

99.5 percent of the people that watched this film have not read or give a **** about Frank Millers TDKR. But I bet a lot of them think "well that was a stupid thing to do" of course you got shot.

You have to realize how much more impactful it would have been had Thomas just worked with the mugger as much as possible and still got shot. Or the mugger points the gun at Bruce or Martha and Thomas shields them and gets shot.

It's like when they made this movie they simply did not think, not even for a second. "Frank Miller did it so it must be the right thing to do"

The hundreds of people that worked on this movie, not one of them went,"Hey, y'know what would work better?"

For me to fully buy into a mans journey and path to becoming Batman and neverending pain he feels over the loss of his parents I can't be thinking that that man should actually be blaming his father for his reckless stupidity.

Congrats Snyder, you made a movie where 0.5 percent of the viewers will go "Wow, thats soo Millerverse" and 99.5 percent will just SMH.

You're the absolute worst!

Snyder love his Miller tho. Even he was consulting with Miller during filming CMIIW.

He was acted illogically / unsafe/ riskily, yet somehow Thomas Wayne's flawed and over-agressiveness seems in line with 'My ancestors were hunters' thing. Maybe it is in the blood.
Bruce is still alive, so he surely didn't learn to acted like his Dad in that kind of situation.

I can appreciate that Snyder made it to be different from BB and paid homage to TDKR, yet I perfectly understand that many doesn't like it.

One thing for sure, it sold me on the idea of Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Flashpoint Batman.

Edit:Called Thomas' reaction as stupid was waaay too harsh. If real life person acted that way, I should not called him/ her 'stupid'.

 

[AnneFan]

Well, the 30s gave us Hitler's rise to power and beating women was still ok. A lot of things then weren't good ideas.

Like it or don't like it. I don't care. I'm just stating a fact.

 

[Gianakin_]

As an argument in favor of the movie.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Are we really nitpicking about everything?
Yeah it was dumb of Thomas to try and fight back, does it sometimes happen in real life? Yes it does. Is it Thomas his fault he and his wife got shot because of it? No, the guy that pulled the trigger is to blame.
Not more too it than that.

Sigh...

Make sure you apply that logic next time (which I hope never comes, btw) someone threatens you with a weapon.

The guy was a mugger, not necessarily a murderer. You give him your money and the thing is over for good. Especially when you're Thomas effing Wayne.

Exactly, I'm done with being blamed of nitpicking everything to death. These are just basic changes you can make to your storytelling that will make everything flow better.

How many times can you blame people of nitpicking before you realize that maybe Snyder messed up?

If there are nits to pick it's because Snyder put them there.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Thomas resists the mugger in the original 1939 version of the murder.

I don't care.

 

[Gianakin_]

Exactly, I'm done with being blamed of nitpicking everything to death. These are just basic changes you can make to your storytelling that will make everything flow better.

How many times can you blame people of nitpicking before you realize that maybe Snyder messed up?

If there are nits to pick it's because Snyder put them there.

Well, that's the thing: The Waynes murder is Batman's origin, it's the reason why Batman is created. It's no nitpick, it's getting a big of the character wrong. Batman was created because his dad was an imbecile.

 

[Steamteck]

Well, that's the thing: The Waynes murder is Batman's origin, it's the reason why Batman is created. It's no nitpick, it's getting a big of the character wrong. Batman was created because his dad was an imbecile.

The funny thing about this argument is if its correct, it proves Ras was completely wrong in the TDK about his will to act BS.t:

 

[Gianakin_]

Ra's was wrong about many things in Batman Begins, so yeah. It probably has to do with the fact that he was written by Goyer. It's no coincidence that Ra's and Costner Kent contradict themselves a lot.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

The funny thing about this argument is if its correct, it proves Ras was completely wrong in the TDK about his will to act BS.t:

Well I dunno.

Ra's said "the will to act"

not

"the will to act stupidly".

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'm OKAY with Thomas being dumb, but would have preferred it if he just begged for dear life and was shot anyway.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Sigh...




Exactly, I'm done with being blamed of nitpicking everything to death. These are just basic changes you can make to your storytelling that will make everything flow better.

How many times can you blame people of nitpicking before you realize that maybe Snyder messed up?

If there are nits to pick it's because Snyder put them there.

Yeah. I would even give a pass to a handful of moments that I currently don't (i.e. Who is Alfred? What is that red suit covered in graffiti? How did Lois know where Bats/Supes were fighting?) if there were only a handful. But there are so so many moments like this it just makes for a messy and incomplete story.

 

[gdw]

Are you guys seriously criticizing, and blaming, Thomas Wayne for attempting to defend his family?

Holy ****, seriously people are just looking for **** to ***** about now.

Guess what, people make mistakes, and do stupid stuff (like attacking "flaws" where they don't exist) in real life, so guess what, so do characters in movies.

Thomas was a good, but flawed, man. Bruce also made a LOT of mistakes in this movie, and that was the intent of the film makers, not their mistake.

Citing Nolan's depiction as what Thomas SHOULD have done is not only dumb, it's ignorant as ****; both of Snyder's scene, AND Nolan's films.

Nolan makes a point of "teaching" Bruce that his father SHOULD have acted. "The training is nothing! The will is everything! The will to act."
Now, that doesn't mean he ACTUALLY should have acted, nor that Nolan even thinks he should have acted, but Bruce thinks/is taught that he should have acted.

Both courses of action may have been mistakes for the characters, but they are not mistakes for the film.


Stop scrapping the bottom of the barrel for **** to fight about. Seriously. What. The. ****.

 

[Gianakin_]

Defend his family against... what? Losing a wallet?

Nolan's Thomas did the absolutely most sensible thing: Played along. And he STILL got killed, which is perfect for Batman's birth, the senselessness of the crime. The BvS murder wasn't senseless at all. It was a mugging gone wrong for no good reason.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Defend his family against... what? Losing a wallet?

Maybe it was a special wallet? Maybe Thomas was an underground bare knuckle boxer? Is he even a doctor in this storyline? I dunno

 

[javonstokess]

'People just don't like dark movies'.

The Dark Knight was pretty popular. So popular, in fact, that WB decided to use it as a template for the tone of their entire DC slate.

'It was made for fans, it's not a compromised vision'.

Seems like it was plenty compromised, considering the movie ground to a halt constantly to be a commercial for other movies.

'There can be different interpretations of these characters. You guys don't like being challenged.'

I show up to a movie about Superman, then I'm expecting to see Superman. If he kills someone, well that's challenging. But if the movie KNOWS how much that breaks with the tradition of the character, and lends real weight to the moment, and uses it to tell a thematically powerful story that advances the character or shows them in a new light, then I can live with it. I could live with a Cronenbergian Fantastic Four if the movie had been more compelling, with better characters and smarter writing. I can't live with a movie that just has Superman scowling and Batman casually murdering people just because he's trying to steal Kryptonite just to murder a superbeing who he's never even tried speaking with. Those may be interpretations of the characters, sure. But as characters, they seem like very stupid people who behave in arbitrary ways so things that the script demands happen can happen. So if that's your Batman, fine. Then I'm no longer a fan of this Batman.

'They are doing something different from Marvel.'

Seems like they're trying to copy Marvel's business model, with less planning, less well-written characters, and a comically over-the-top dark tone. Also, you don't get points for originality when your big innovation is 'we're going to make terrible movies that please almost no one, instead of well-constructed popular movies.'

'But it IS a story about Batman not killing. He learns from Superman's sacrifice.'

Superman 'sacrifices' himself by glumly and stupidly impaling himself when there was another meta human RIGHT THERE who could have done the job, without being hindered by Kryptonite. Batman is 'redeemed' because he murdered a bunch of people and then we don't see him murder anybody in the last 30 minutes of the movie. Good to know! We should let all the murderers out of prison. After all, they haven't murdered anyone RECENTLY so we can assume they're 'redeemed'.

Also, there was another superhero movie a few years back, also starring Ben Affleck, that depicted a superhero killing people and then reforming his methods, except it was actually better explained in that movie. Also those people spoke of a magical Director's Cut that proved all the detractors wrong.

That movie was Daredevil, and all you 'B v S' defenders remind me A LOT of the people who were fans of that film.

I would like this post a million times if I could...

 

[Gianakin_]

Maybe it was a special wallet? Maybe Thomas was an underground bare knuckle boxer? Is he even a doctor in this storyline? I dunno

I think Zack confused him with Battlin' Jack Murdock.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Are you guys seriously criticizing, and blaming, Thomas Wayne for attempting to defend his family?

I thought we were criticizing the writing? And why scenes were written a certain way with apparent lack of though to the impact of the overall story. Things seemed to be added to look "awesome" regardless of how they impact the story (i.e. Supes ramming a guy through a brick wall)

 

[Gianakin_]

"Wow, imagine if Bruce inherited his spirit and bravery from his dad! And if audiences don't like it, we can always blame it on Miller! AWESUM!"

 

[Reek]

When someone points a gun at your wife or husband... I wonder if you will think so logically with your 10 year old son there.