BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - Part 306

[The Joker]

8 razzie nominations!

Game changing. Well done Mr Snyder

All of them deserved.

 

[BatLobster]

Watchmen's release only strengthened their hope that he'd be next.

Actually, while Watchmen solidified him as an impressive visual stylist, that film did kind of split people. For me that movie was a mixed bag, and I think this is where Snyder started to get the reputation among some for being style over substance. Sucker Punch didn't help with that.

There was skepticism about him when he was given Man of Steel, and I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he was known as the "green screen guy" and the project was being godfathered by Nolan- but I don't too many fans were actively rooting against it. The trailers were very well-received and there was HUGE hype for the movie. I won't open up at that can of worms, but suffice to say, a lot people felt very strongly about that movie one way or the other.

My thing with Snyder is I think since Watchmen he's kind of been taking on projects that are destined for controversy for a while now. Filming the "unfilmmable" graphic novel. Reinventing Superman for the modern age. The first on-screen meetup of Batman and Superman in a film that launches the whole DC Cinematic Universe (while also being his homage to Dark Knight Returns). I mean, he's ambitious which I give him credit for, but when you combine his particular fanboy-ish sensibilities and these beloved properties...I'm really not all that surprised that he's become an extremely divisive filmmaker.

 

[2kt09]

My thing with Snyder is I think since Watchmen he's kind of been taking on projects that are destined for controversy for a while now. Filming the "unfilmmable" graphic novel. Reinventing Superman for the modern age. The first on-screen meetup of Batman and Superman in a film that launches the whole DC Cinematic Universe (while also being his homage to Dark Knight Returns). I mean, he's ambitious which I give him credit for, but when you combine his particular fanboy-ish sensibilities and these beloved properties...I'm really not all that surprised that he's become an extremely divisive filmmaker.

Very shrewd assessment. Although, right after Watchmen he followed up with a pretty straightforward animated fantasy tale.

 

[Tony Gunk]

All of them deserved.

Afflecks wasn't. He was a mile better than Bale

 

[The Joker]

Afflecks wasn't. He was a mile better than Bale

The voting public don't agree with you, and neither do I

 

[Tony Gunk]

It's ridiculous to call Zack Snyder a hack because he's not. It's that simple.

Dawn of the Dead, 300, Watchmen, and Man of Steel are all very well-directed films.

He's had a couple missteps, but so have other great directors:
Steven Spielberg made Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Tim Burton made Mars Attacks.
David Fincher made Alien 3.
Oliver Stone made Alexander.

Back before it was cool to make fun of Snyder and the DCEU, the consensus about Snyder was much different on these boards.

When Chris Nolan was at the height of The Dark Knight Trilogy, the two directors on every fans' shortlist to take over when Nolan wrapped up were Fincher and Snyder. Snyder. Every fan wanted to see him have a crack at Batman. They were practically begging for him to do a Dark Knight Returns adaptation.

Watchmen's release only strengthened their hope that he'd be next.

I don't know what made the fan community turn on him so much. Before you say it was his DCEU films, the tide began to turn on him before then. Ahead of Man Of Steel's release, fans were saying he was going to lay and egg and that it was going to be terrible. Some were actively hoping for its failure.

I don't know if this started as a stupid Marvel vs. DC thing, considering Snyder kickstarted the DCEU during the peak of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. But like I said in above posts, at some point it became the cool thing to hate on Snyder.


It wasn't always this way. And I'm not alone in thinking that he has created some visually arresting scenes and, yes, told some truly entertaining stories.

"Zack Snyder's direction is very strong here ... Spectacular looking." - Richard Roeper on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

"For today brings about the release of "300," and it is the "Citizen Kane" of cinematic graphic novels." - Richard Roeper on 300

"The film is rich enough to be seen more than once. I plan to see it again, this time on IMAX ... I had a powerful experience." - Roger Ebert on Watchmen

"Man of Steel" mostly delivers. And credit for that goes to its director." - Steven Whitty on Man Of Steel

"Zack Snyder doesn't offer us a realistic treatment but something more adventurous and intuitive ..." - SF Chronicle on 300

"[300] didn't move me with its story or by any of its performances. But it's impossible not to be moved by its nearly nonstop visual assault." - NY Daily News


I hope he is able to win back fans' favor with Justice League. I have hope he will.

-R

Man of steel was very divisive though and to a lot of people it's not a good film, likewise Watchmen.

You can't even compare him to the guys you've compared him to, top directors who've made incredible films loved the world over

He's not good film maker, he's decent at best, he'll probably never make a really solid film that everyone can get behind. For me dawn of the dead is an excellent comb and by far his best

 

[Sleiek]

The voting public don't agree with you, and neither do I

How's that? Almost everyone in my social circle I talked to about BvS agree Affleck is the best Batman to date.

 

[Slade W]

How's that? Almost everyone in my social circle I talked to about BvS agree Affleck is the best Batman to date.

I don't think you will find any polls with more voters than this one, with Affleck coming out on top.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnaha...movie-opinions?utm_term=.qeGYAqB2w#.pjmpByeZW

 

[Tony Gunk]

The voting public don't agree with you, and neither do I

Can't say I care. Delighted to see the back of Bale's Batman and that ridiculous voice

 

[The Joker]

How's that? Almost everyone in my social circle I talked to about BvS agree Affleck is the best Batman to date.

I don't think you will find any polls with more voters than this one, with Affleck coming out on top.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnaha...movie-opinions?utm_term=.qeGYAqB2w#.pjmpByeZW

This one is quite sizeable, too;

http://collider.com/best-batman-actors-poll/

Obviously 6k votes doesn't compare to over 200k like on your link, but for an internet poll, that's a big one.

Can't say I care.

Lucky for you. Otherwise it would be frustrating being in the minority

 

[Lantern Venom]

I don't think you will find any polls with more voters than this one, with Affleck coming out on top.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnaha...movie-opinions?utm_term=.qeGYAqB2w#.pjmpByeZW

1. 74%
   198.6K vote votes
   
2. 
   
3. Christian Bale
5. 
   
   16%
   43.6K vote votes
   
   
   
   Ben Affleck
   
   
6. 
   
   10%
   26.7K vote votes
   
   
   
   Michael Keaton
   
   

I'm pleasantly surprised to see Bale still getting that much respect. He got too much flak from critics about his voice, which didn't detract from the character at all. Affleck did the best that he could, which I can live with, but I always believe that a better casting choice could have been made.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

The nominations for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice are flat-out ridiculous.


I saw a lot of films this year and a lot of sequels, prequels and remakes. The fact that a film like Ghostbusters wasn't nominated takes away much of the credibility.

Hating this film, and hating the DCEU, has become so mainstream and cool to do that it really didn't stand a chance from the jump.

Even before its release, people were looking for reasons to hate it and hoping for its failure. So when it came out, and the first reviews were less than great, the hate only snowballed and continued.

Calling Zack Snyder a hack is ridiculous. The man's resume is impressive and the quality of images he can churn out on screen is well above average.

Saying Ben Affleck's acting in the film is among the year's worst performances is laughable.

Are the DCEU films perfect? No. Without question, no.

But they are definitely not among the worst films of any of their respective years. Not by a long shot.

Hell, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a better film than Suicide Squad in almost every way and it received a "Worst Picture" nod and the latter did not. Simply because it was cooler to hate Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice than it was to hate Suicide Squad


Don't get me started on how dumb it is that Jared Leto is nominated for "Worst Supporting Actor" for the Joker.

Ride Along 2
The 5th Wave
Fifty Shades of Black
My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2
God's Not Dead 2
Alice: Through The Looking Glass
Mother's Day
Warcraft
Ghostbusters
Ben-Hur
Yoga Hosers
Max Steel
Collateral Beauty


The above are all studio releases from 2016 much more deserving a spot on the nomination list. It's not even close in most cases. But hating these movies wasn't the cool thing to do in 2016 and wouldn't get the Razzies the desired attention that nominating a film like Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice would.

-R

I usually hate quoting long posts just to give a short reply, but I feel this deserves to be viewed more than once. Hating BvS is now a cultural thing and has nothing to do with the actual film. You are correct that it was hated even before it came out and it's sad that the same thing is hapening with WW and JL.

 

[BatLobster]

Movies of this size about characters this huge and iconic are by their very nature, cultural things. So yeah, when one comes along and hits a sour note with a lot of people, by extension that reaction does become a cultural thing.

I've been in the position of liking things that were cultural things to bash (the Matrix sequels for instance), and sure it's not fun for a while...but eventually you accept it and if you really do love the movies then ultimately it doesn't matter what other people think and years later you're still going to be enjoying it.

It just seems to me that a lot of DC fans have this validation obsession these days, like they almost care more about what other people think. I get it to an extent, the desire to have more people appreciate something you love, but I think at this point fighting it is just an uphill battle. It's going to take a lot to shift the cultural perception at this point, at least you can still be grateful that the movies have been profitable thus far and WB seems intent on making a lot more of them.

 

[wnjcwjkk]

Is this the most hated movie of all time? It has to be, right? I mean. I know some like me loved it and some liked it, some thought dossapointing.. but had there ever been so much hate directed at a movie?
Both leads nominated for worst actor. Lol. Ridiculous.

Well, Idk, I think most movies that people generally agree are crap, they just say "Yeah, that sucked", and move on. But BvS, because it involves the two most popular characters, arguably, in comics history, stirs up a lot of debate every time it's mentioned, it gets a LOT of clicks. Just look at the numbers of the BvS and related threads compared to the other CBM threads. Anything that divisive and discussed, the Razzies are going to try and milk that controversy for all it's worth

 

[Flint Marko]

I usually hate quoting long posts just to give a short reply, but I feel this deserves to be viewed more than once. Hating BvS is now a cultural thing and has nothing to do with the actual film. You are correct that it was hated even before it came out and it's sad that the same thing is hapening with WW and JL.

It has everything to do with the actual film. Hearing people continually perpetuate this nonsense has me seriously wondering how closed off some people are around here are to honest, valid criticisms of something they love.

 

[The Joker]

Sticking your head in the sand and pretending there's a hate conspiracy is a better alternative for some people rather than accepting the harsh reality that the movies are disliked for genuine legit reasons.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

No man. It's all a conspiracy.

#DCgate

 

[Sleiek]

This one is quite sizeable, too;

http://collider.com/best-batman-actors-poll/

Obviously 6k votes doesn't compare to over 200k like on your link, but for an internet poll, that's a big one.



Lucky for you. Otherwise it would be frustrating being in the minority

Interesting. Guess my friends aren't internet nerds.

 

[metaphysician]

How's that? Almost everyone in my social circle I talked to about BvS agree Affleck is the best Batman to date.

. . .your being sarcastic, right? You *do* realize that one's social circle is a useless measure for determining actual popularity or opinion on anything, because one's social circle isn't an unbiased random sample?

 

[The Joker]

. . .your being sarcastic, right? You *do* realize that one's social circle is a useless measure for determining actual popularity or opinion on anything, because one's social circle isn't an unbiased random sample?

Exactly. I don't know what's more ignorant; assuming your friends speak for the consensus, or that you have to be a nerd to vote on a movie poll.

 

[The Apocalypse]

The nominations for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice are flat-out ridiculous.


I saw a lot of films this year and a lot of sequels, prequels and remakes. The fact that a film like Ghostbusters wasn't nominated takes away much of the credibility.

Hating this film, and hating the DCEU, has become so mainstream and cool to do that it really didn't stand a chance from the jump.

Even before its release, people were looking for reasons to hate it and hoping for its failure. So when it came out, and the first reviews were less than great, the hate only snowballed and continued.

Calling Zack Snyder a hack is ridiculous. The man's resume is impressive and the quality of images he can churn out on screen is well above average.

Saying Ben Affleck's acting in the film is among the year's worst performances is laughable.

Are the DCEU films perfect? No. Without question, no.

But they are definitely not among the worst films of any of their respective years. Not by a long shot.

Hell, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is a better film than Suicide Squad in almost every way and it received a "Worst Picture" nod and the latter did not. Simply because it was cooler to hate Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice than it was to hate Suicide Squad


Don't get me started on how dumb it is that Jared Leto is nominated for "Worst Supporting Actor" for the Joker.

Ride Along 2
The 5th Wave
Fifty Shades of Black
My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2
God's Not Dead 2
Alice: Through The Looking Glass
Mother's Day
Warcraft
Ghostbusters
Ben-Hur
Yoga Hosers
Max Steel
Collateral Beauty


The above are all studio releases from 2016 much more deserving a spot on the nomination list. It's not even close in most cases. But hating these movies wasn't the cool thing to do in 2016 and wouldn't get the Razzies the desired attention that nominating a film like Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice would.

-R

BvS needs to be held to a different standard. None of those movies you listed had the hype or the iconic characters as BvS did. So while BvS may not actually be worse than the movies you listed, it sure as hell was more disappointing.

 

[Sleiek]

. . .your being sarcastic, right? You *do* realize that one's social circle is a useless measure for determining actual popularity or opinion on anything, because one's social circle isn't an unbiased random sample?

Considering the overwhelming hate for DC in the online community, I prefer to think of my social circle as more unbiased and more reasonable. I know the 50,000 votes count for more, but I'm not at all surprised considering what DCEU movies are facing online.

And you don't have to be a nerd to vote in fan sites, just that the vast majority of them probably don't account for the general population.

 

[The Joker]

Nearly two hundred thousand votes (show me a bigger statistical sample) probably don't account for the general population.......why wouldn't they account for the general population, especially when such polls are shared across social media like twitter, Facebook, Pinitrest etc. The general population go on the internet, they take part in social media, they vote online and so on.

And your social circle is more unbiased and reasonable just because they like Ben Affleck best? You put more stock in your handful of friends just because they don't express criticism against the DCEU online? Why does expressing your opinion online make it a lesser opinion to those who don't? Why are the people who hate the DCEU online not considered part of the general population?

 

[Sleiek]

No, not because they like Ben Affleck more but because they don't have hate for DCEU movies and mock them. Simple really.

And yeah, the 200,000 votes account for less than 5% of the people who went to see BvS. So even that isn't very accurate.

Please tell me, how many people do you think actually use Facebook anymore let alone Twitter?

 

[The Joker]

So if you like the DCEU, you're not biased, but if you dislike them you are. LOL! You're right, that is simple minded logic.

200k votes is a more sizable statistic than any you can conjure up, including bringing in hearsay from your friends. Take a stab at what percentage of the people who saw BvS your friends make up.

Oh and an average of 1 billion people use Facebook alone daily; http://newsroom.fb.com/company-info/