All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 1

[batfreakforever]

Maybe someone will come up with a fan-edit along those lines...

Why is it not ok for George Lucas (the owner and creator) to change his films when he didnt like something but its ok for fans to change things when they didnt like something?
Not having a go at anyone I'm just wondering why its more acceptable for a fan-edit of something than an official edit?

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Couple reasons.

1) Lucas's special editions made the previous editions no longer canon. Granted the changes are minor, but it irks some people to think that in the official story of Star Wars, thirty years before The Force Awakens, Luke saw a ghost with Hayden Christensen's face, not the face of the guy he saw under the mask. A fan edit isn't going to change the canon.

2) Star Wars special editions phased out the original cuts, which never came to DVD or Blu-Ray.

 

[StormC]

Yeah... I'd be perfectly happy to entertain the Special Editions if the original versions actually existed in tangible form. The fact that Star Wars, one of the most iconic pieces of media in the English language, cannot be viewed in its original form, is simply infuriating.

 

[Greenlite]

Superman in BvS realizes that people may not always welcome his presence, or interference in their social / political / world affairs, he finds that the world was not black and white but mostly Gray, which questioned him. ('Must there be Superman ?")

Superman learns that despite his good intentions, there are some unintentional consequences to his actions, he also realizes that some people are trying to manipulate him.

As he was raised like a human, he too has doubts, like every other human being on Earth, after the incident at the Senate, he begins to question his mission, but towards the end finds his faith in humanity restored back again and decides to save his world.

The character arc here is a journey he goes through to emerge as a hero who has gained the ability to withstand pressures of media, politics and scheming people like Lex and still goes ahead do the right thing.

That part was so philosophical that Terrio won a Razzies for worst screenplay, therefore the script is garbage

We want dialogues like, when Batman gets thrown onto the roof by Superman, he needs to say "I need some orange juice"

 

[A Necessary Evil]

]
2) Star Wars special editions phased out the original cuts, which never came to DVD or Blu-Ray.

Actually, the OT did come to dvd. This is a common misconception amongst the SW community.

 

[Samuron]

Actually, the OT did come to dvd. This is a common misconception amongst the SW community.

Yep. Back in 2006, we got the proper version back, where Han blows Greedo away.

 

[StormC]

They were crappy Laserdisc transfers so it isn't exactly a victory. Thank God for the despecialized edition.

 

[Broseph44]

How did this thread get off topic of the DCEU and into Star Wars and the original cuts of them?

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Yep. Back in 2006, we got the proper version back, where Han blows Greedo away.

Yep. Hoping for a bluray soon, though unlikely.

They were crappy Laserdisc transfers so it isn't exactly a victory. Thank God for the despecialized edition.

I never said the transfer was good, just that it was indeed released on DVD.

How did this thread get off topic of the DCEU and into Star Wars and the original cuts of them?

Because the DCEU sucks, and we needed to discuss something of actual quality.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

With Logan coming out, what are your thoughts on how Fox is handling their own little universe in comparison to the DCEU?

I notice in the X-Men universe continuity is a loose term, especially after time travel. But also that their isn't really a slate of movies or an actual plan. You got the X-Men franchise to start out with. Wolverine proves to be popular, he gets his own solo set of movies. Then Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool gets some momentum and also proves to be popular, now he's got his own solo set of films coming up. New Mutants has a director, and there's an X-Force movie in development, but I couldn't tell you when any of those movies would come out. Fox doesn't really do the Marvel Studios thing where big slates with target dates are dropped.

And to top it off Fox has delivered some really good stuff from the X-Men, despite a couple of bad movies. Logan itself is getting great reception.


Does having a plan even matter? And does continuity even matter if the movies get well received? Recently given all these announcements people are hounding WB for "what is the plan?", even I made thread about it. Could it be that everything could just get made at it's own pace? Stuff like Suicide Squad proves it popularity thus we get a sequel fast tracked with Harley and Deadshot spinoffs. Or even Batman getting his own universe within the DCEU due to his popularity.

 

[batfreakforever]

How did this thread get off topic of the DCEU and into Star Wars and the original cuts of them?

That was my fault. Sorry.

 

[dax]

Couple reasons.

1) Lucas's special editions made the previous editions no longer canon. Granted the changes are minor, but it irks some people to think that in the official story of Star Wars, thirty years before The Force Awakens, Luke saw a ghost with Hayden Christensen's face, not the face of the guy he saw under the mask. A fan edit isn't going to change the canon.

2) Star Wars special editions phased out the original cuts, which never came to DVD or Blu-Ray.

How could Luke even recognize the guy he saw under the mask to begin with? He's never seen his father throughout his entire life and Anakin's face is too disfigured beyond recognition. Plus, Anakin is supposed to be 45 when he dies but the actor who played him in Return of the Jedi was born in 1904 which made him 78 years old during filming. While George kept Sebastian Shaw in the unmasking scene to show how much the dark side has deformed Anakin, He felt that the actor was too old to be Anakin in the final scene so he replaced him with Hayden.

 

[Micromind]

With Logan coming out, what are your thoughts on how Fox is handling their own little universe in comparison to the DCEU?

I notice in the X-Men universe continuity is a loose term, especially after time travel. But also that their isn't really a slate of movies or an actual plan. You got the X-Men franchise to start out with. Wolverine proves to be popular, he gets his own solo set of movies. Then Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool gets some momentum and also proves to be popular, now he's got his own solo set of films coming up. New Mutants has a director, and there's an X-Force movie in development, but I couldn't tell you when any of those movies would come out. Fox doesn't really do the Marvel Studios thing where big slates with target dates are dropped.

And to top it off Fox has delivered some really good stuff from the X-Men, despite a couple of bad movies. Logan itself is getting great reception.


Does having a plan even matter? And does continuity even matter if the movies get well received? Recently given all these announcements people are hounding WB for "what is the plan?", even I made thread about it. Could it be that everything could just get made at it's own pace? Stuff like Suicide Squad proves it popularity thus we get a sequel fast tracked with Harley and Deadshot spinoffs. Or even Batman getting his own universe within the DCEU due to his popularity.

Having a plan matters as most of Justice League members are getting solo movies set in the same continuity, Flash, Aquaman, Superman have to be written taking into account what's happened earlier / or what will be shown in their ensemble movie (JL)

 

[Osiris-Rex]

How could Luke even recognize the guy he saw under the mask to begin with? He's never seen his father throughout his entire life and Anakin's face is too disfigured beyond recognition. Plus, Anakin is supposed to be 45 when he dies but the actor who played him in Return of the Jedi was born in 1904 which made him 78 years old during filming. While George kept Sebastian Shaw in the unmasking scene to show how much the dark side has deformed Anakin, He felt that the actor was too old to be Anakin in the final scene so he replaced him with Hayden.

I think with Matt Reeves on board to direct The Batman and possibly getting Mel Gibson to direct Suicide Squad 2 that WB could be righting the ship and it might be smooth sailing from now one. I think if left alone,
David Ayer may even be able make a decent Gotham City Sirens movie too. I think Justice League and Wonder Woman might be too early to tell, because they were made under the previous heavy handed regime.

 

[Zarex]

With Logan coming out, what are your thoughts on how Fox is handling their own little universe in comparison to the DCEU?

I notice in the X-Men universe continuity is a loose term, especially after time travel. But also that their isn't really a slate of movies or an actual plan. You got the X-Men franchise to start out with. Wolverine proves to be popular, he gets his own solo set of movies. Then Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool gets some momentum and also proves to be popular, now he's got his own solo set of films coming up. New Mutants has a director, and there's an X-Force movie in development, but I couldn't tell you when any of those movies would come out. Fox doesn't really do the Marvel Studios thing where big slates with target dates are dropped.

And to top it off Fox has delivered some really good stuff from the X-Men, despite a couple of bad movies. Logan itself is getting great reception.


Does having a plan even matter? And does continuity even matter if the movies get well received? Recently given all these announcements people are hounding WB for "what is the plan?", even I made thread about it. Could it be that everything could just get made at it's own pace? Stuff like Suicide Squad proves it popularity thus we get a sequel fast tracked with Harley and Deadshot spinoffs. Or even Batman getting his own universe within the DCEU due to his popularity.

Though it is possible to have very successful superhero films without maintaining continuity across franchises, I would contend that a solid plan is a key component of maximizing BO grosses and maintaining fan interest.

While FOX has had a good deal of success with their most recent Wolverine and Deadpool films, the flagship franchise is in a very tough spot coming off a critical and BO disappointment. I think that has an awful lot to do with the wonky continuity (as well as the awful costumes and another Magneto betrayal). Though the X-Men franchise is getting a bit long in the tooth, they were much popular than the Avengers not all that long ago. An Avengers film pulling in Apocalypse numbers would be a disaster.

I am positive about FOX's Deadpool/X-Force "mini universe" and I think a DCEU slate the successfully links the Batfamily properties (Batman, Nightwing, Gotham City Sirens, Suicide Squad, Deadshot) could be extremely successful as well. But first you have to have a plan.

 

[2kt09]

With Logan coming out, what are your thoughts on how Fox is handling their own little universe in comparison to the DCEU?

Reminds me of how DC animated movies are handled. You have a set of mainline films with a steady flow of genuinely off-kilter stuff. And it's Fox cbm's as a whole as they eventually branch out further through Millarworld.

I notice in the X-Men universe continuity is a loose term, especially after time travel. But also that their isn't really a slate of movies or an actual plan. You got the X-Men franchise to start out with. Wolverine proves to be popular, he gets his own solo set of movies. Then Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool gets some momentum and also proves to be popular, now he's got his own solo set of films coming up. New Mutants has a director, and there's an X-Force movie in development, but I couldn't tell you when any of those movies would come out. Fox doesn't really do the Marvel Studios thing where big slates with target dates are dropped.

The trend here is that projects don't get picked up unless a filmmaker or actor actively wants to. As much as those movies are a business venture, it's not quite executives who map out what should or shouldn't be made especially given that there's little to no X-Men merchandising incentive compared to characters Marvel Studios and DC own.

Does having a plan even matter?

Ask Kinberg.

And does continuity even matter if the movies get well received?

If the movies have a recurring roster with each sequel, emotional continuity matters more than anything else. Also, I just like the continuity as is, since it feels the most reminiscent of what supposedly happens in comics all the time. If somehow they were able to keep at it with the original actors - the original continuity - you likely wouldn't get to this influx of creativity.

Recently given all these announcements people are hounding WB for "what is the plan?", even I made thread about it. Could it be that everything could just get made at it's own pace? Stuff like Suicide Squad proves it popularity thus we get a sequel fast tracked with Harley and Deadshot spinoffs. Or even Batman getting his own universe within the DCEU due to his popularity.

The plan here is banking on what's popular or what's proven success like if Fox put a halt on other X-Men IP's in the pipeline just to keep announcing Deadpool-related flicks as opposed to expanding their brand to include even more risky and unconventional projects. Deadpool is instead just another of those "risky and unconventional" spinoffs with a massive & equally "risky and unconventional" marketing campaign, and part of the reason they're so willing to do R-rated cbm's.

To go back to the animated movies, you'll notice they're now mostly just Batman, Justice League, and now their more recent cash cow - Teen Titans, yet the movies are used to give far more screentime to lesser known/less exposed/newer characters of DC comics. It's the same with their tv shows as much as some of them are blatant conduits for Batman, Superman, etc.

 

[OutOfBoose]

nvm.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

With Logan coming out, what are your thoughts on how Fox is handling their own little universe in comparison to the DCEU?

I notice in the X-Men universe continuity is a loose term, especially after time travel. But also that their isn't really a slate of movies or an actual plan. You got the X-Men franchise to start out with. Wolverine proves to be popular, he gets his own solo set of movies. Then Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool gets some momentum and also proves to be popular, now he's got his own solo set of films coming up. New Mutants has a director, and there's an X-Force movie in development, but I couldn't tell you when any of those movies would come out. Fox doesn't really do the Marvel Studios thing where big slates with target dates are dropped.

And to top it off Fox has delivered some really good stuff from the X-Men, despite a couple of bad movies. Logan itself is getting great reception.

Does having a plan even matter? And does continuity even matter if the movies get well received? Recently given all these announcements people are hounding WB for "what is the plan?", even I made thread about it. Could it be that everything could just get made at it's own pace? Stuff like Suicide Squad proves it popularity thus we get a sequel fast tracked with Harley and Deadshot spinoffs. Or even Batman getting his own universe within the DCEU due to his popularity.

Although I'm a DC guy I'm a huge fan of Fox's X-Men films. Yes continuity has been all over the place (Singer admitted that in those early pre-MCU days they weren't really concerned with it) and the time travel/alternate timelines aspect has confused some people, but at the end of the day for me they're enjoyable superhero/action flicks with good storylines and some great performances (Stewart, McKellen, Jackman, Fassbender). Christopher Nolan spoke of his own admiration for X-Men and X2 and their influence on some of his decision making in rebooting Batman.

I agree that the XCU doesn't appear to have been planned out with anything like the meticulousness of the MCU; they seemed to 'fly by the seat of their pants' which I think was a major factor in those continuity problems, but for me overall the series hasn't suffered too much for that (apart from Origins: Wolverine).

The DCEU of course has come after the MCU so they've seen that continuity/interconnectivity can be a big factor in the success of this kind of franchise - as opposed to WB's previously established standalone approach. Since the conclusion of Nolan's trilogy the MCU have been the undisputed 'big boys' of superhero cinema and that interconnected approach seems to be what audiences expect now. That's not to say standalones can't work, it's just that if you can pull off an interconnected universe it can be a great asset. It seems to me that WB either didn't appreciate just how much work went into creating the shared universe of the MCU or just thought it wasn't necessary, and only began to realise once they were underway what it actually takes to pull it off. Fox didn't have a model to work from; WB/DC did.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I think WB would be wise to focus on Batman, Superman, Justice League and the Titans. Those are gonna be the best sellers for them.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I know this won't be a 'popular' view, but I would say WB/DC always had a plan, or rather a collection of ideas requiring diligent pathway.

At the time of release of MoS, the overall view was that yes it's a singular Superman film, but we are aiming for a wider universe (hence the drop in of names etc. in MoS) and my thinking would be the $668m wasn't quite enough to convince studio exec's of more Superman and Snyder had the loudest voice and drafted in Batman (to no objection), to get to a wider universe by the quickest way possible and WB 'left it to him' to make BvS and then when the magical $1b was not reached, it's hit the reverse button.

The 'plan' they had was YES to a wider universe and let's have what Disney/Marvel have got but the specifics of beyond a Superman film in 2013 were not fully evolved as such, my view is, they always intended JL et al, but believed the audience would give them more time to evolve it and as I've said in other threads, Marvel are a studio geared to CBM's, they don't have to concentrate on anything else but, WB are tied to so many other branches of film making, Snyder built himself central to the 'cause' and WB backed him, thinking he'd bring home all the bacon, in my view, he has, but if the DCEU is to succeed to the widest audience possible, then the exec's have got to start trusting the film makers and allowing them to release their full vision and not put the $$$ before authenticity.

 

[2kt09]

Fox didn't have a model to work from; WB/DC did.

Like some guy said, the modern model was already in place before the MCU came along right down to doing cinematic shorts. [BLACKOUT]Fast & Furious[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Like some guy said, the modern model was already in place before the MCU came along right down to doing cinematic shorts. [BLACKOUT]Fast & Furious[/BLACKOUT]

If we're talking about non-superhero franchises F & F indeed came before the MCU. Doesn't change the situation for Fox though; the first X-Men came out the year before the first F & F, the next five entries in each franchise came out in the same year (2003, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2013).

 

[2kt09]

If we're talking about non-superhero franchises F & F indeed came before the MCU. Doesn't change the situation for Fox though; the first X-Men came out the year before the first F & F, the next five entries in each franchise came out in the same year (2003, 2006, 2009, 2011, 2013).

Oh for sure, but I'm surprised not many here are aware of just how familiar the shared universe the MCU popularized was already being done by a non-superhero property before even the 2nd phase one movie. Heck, the F&F series even beat the X-Men to a prequel trilogy.
If the DCEU somehow nabbed Justin Lin or even Chris Morgan, they'd be making quite the headway.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Oh for sure, but I'm surprised not many here are aware of just how familiar the shared universe the MCU popularized was already being done by a non-superhero property

That's true. I'm thinking back even to those B&W Universal horror movies of the 30s and 40s, when after various solo movies they eventually put Dracula/Frankenstein's Monster/Wolfman into shared adventures.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I am positive about FOX's Deadpool/X-Force "mini universe" and I think a DCEU slate the successfully links the Batfamily properties (Batman, Nightwing, Gotham City Sirens, Suicide Squad, Deadshot) could be extremely successful as well. But first you have to have a plan.

This.