All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 3

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Snyder : “He’s been a loner for certainly his crime-fighting career, maybe with the exception of Robin.When we meet him in BvS, he’s definitely at this low point of isolation. That was always our intention, that Justice League would be this continuation for Batman to evolve into a more complete hero.”
And that's precisely one of the reasons why I dislike this Batman. He needs to become a more complete hero. Who was he during the previous 20 years? Throw in there poorly conceived and resolved conflict with Superman, trigger finger...
Ben Affleck repeated the same thing a few days back that in Justice League, Batman would continue his redemption arc and evolve into more of a traditional Batman. I think Reeves will inherit a great Batman, a complex figure with a lot of rich history and moral ambiguity.
His redemption is just as lame as his downfall. This is not the complexity and rich history I want.
 
And that's precisely one of the reasons why I dislike this Batman. He needs to become a more complete hero. Who was he during the previous 20 years? Throw in there poorly conceived and resolved conflict with Superman, trigger finger...
His redemption is just as lame as his downfall. This is not the complexity and rich history I want.
Regardless, he will be a more traditional Batman by the end of JL, whether you liked the journey or not. From there Reeves can take him in any direction he wants.
 
And that's precisely one of the reasons why I dislike this Batman. He needs to become a more complete hero. Who was he during the previous 20 years? Throw in there poorly conceived and resolved conflict with Superman, trigger finger...

The idea that anything that happened with Superman would significantly alter Batman's psychological make-up after 20 years on the frontline of a war against crime, the death of his parents, the death of Robin, and everything else he's been through was farcical.

And it's still probable Affleck is gone after JL, so it's going to feel like a reboot anyway...
 
The idea that anything that happened with Superman would significantly alter Batman's psychological make-up after 20 years on the frontline of a war against crime, the death of his parents, the death of Robin, and everything else he's been through was farcical.

It's not farcical. It's basic psychology. Bruce Wayne used Batman as a coping mechanism -- a means of dealing with the trauma associated with the deaths of his parents. It was his way of forcing the world to make sense.

The "20 years" on the frontline led to less rather than more control, more rather than less crime, and more rather than fewer personal deaths. When those two decades of impotence and less combined with Bruce's inability to do anything during the Black Zero Event, the response was a complex post-traumatic stress disorder complete with all of the symptoms listed as diagnostic criteria.

It wasn't just one event, but a confluence of triggering events that led to Bruce's breakdown in BvS.
 
Regardless, he will be a more traditional Batman by the end of JL, whether you liked the journey or not. From there Reeves can take him in any direction he wants.
But it's still the foundation. It's something they will be going back to, unless they pretend it never happened.
 
But it's still the foundation. It's something they will be going back to, unless they pretend it never happened.

What's the problem with having it as part of his history and his foundation? He obviously will have recovered from it and grown from it, so any going back to it will only serve to remind us of how he's improved. It's not like going back to it means going back to the same destructive mindset and behavior. Plus, we already know they're not pretending it didn't happen, because we have James Gordon comment on Batman playing well with others. Would you prefer if they pretended it didn't happen?
 
Because I don't like the concept of Batman degrading into a drunk killer psychopath and then suddenly get inspired by Superman's corpse to become a better super-hero than he ever was. I'm sorry, but it's not sympathetic in any way. Mostly ridiculous. And I didn't even mention the famous scene.

If Batman had Robin, then he played well with others before. Not to mention Gordon. I'd prefer Batman outside cinematic universes. He has his own universe. The best of them all.
 
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Because I don't like the concept of Batman degrading into a drunk killer psychopath and then suddenly get inspired by Superman's corpse to become a better super-hero than he ever was. I'm sorry, but it's not sympathetic in any way. Mostly ridiculous. And I didn't even mention the famous scene.

I find the idea of a good man losing his way because of a complex PTSD reaction to be incredibly sympathetic. The psychology of his breakdown was pretty bang on in terms of getting the symptoms right, especially the way in which Bruce's personal history and lifestyle choices would have exacerbated his dysfunctional condition. The resolution, or cure, was spot on as well. Not only is it clear that Bruce isn't instantly reformed ("a better superhero than he ever was"), but it's also quite common to facilitate recovery in PTSD patients by using exposure therapy, which the "famous scene" most closely resembles. It's also just a classic revenge tragedy story in which the hero's tragic flaw is redeemed by grace. It's a shame it didn't work for you. Still, that deconstructive characterization is no longer Batman's status quo. He's in the process of pulling himself out of the hole he dug for himself, which includes mentoring again (Barry) and working with others. Reconnecting with people in a group, especially a group with shared experiences, is also a common treatment for PTSD. Superman's death was the first step in a journey.

ETA: I see Affleck's Batman or his arc as resembling Saul/Paul's in the Bible and Edmund Pevensie's in The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. They're dynamic and compelling characters whose dark pasts enrich rather than tarnish their stories.
 
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What makes me laugh is people saying WBs doesn't know what they're doing cause they're hiring writers on all kinds of different projects. Do people know nothing about filmmaking? Studios always hire writers to work on various projects it's been happening for decades. It's not something solely attributed to DC at WBs. All movie studios do it and often these projects never see the light of day.

"I don't know every detail of the plan so there must be no plan."

It's absurd.
 
I find the idea of a good man losing his way because of a complex PTSD reaction to be incredibly sympathetic. The psychology of his breakdown was pretty bang on in terms of getting the symptoms right, especially the way in which Bruce's personal history and lifestyle choices would have exacerbated his dysfunctional condition. The resolution, or cure, was spot on as well. Not only is it clear that Bruce isn't instantly reformed ("a better superhero than he ever was"), but it's also quite common to facilitate recovery in PTSD patients by using exposure therapy, which the "famous scene" most closely resembles. It's also just a classic revenge tragedy story in which the hero's tragic flaw is redeemed by grace. It's a shame it didn't work for you. Still, that deconstructive characterization is no longer Batman's status quo. He's in the process of pulling himself out of the hole he dug for himself, which includes mentoring again (Barry) and working with others. Reconnecting with people in a group, especially a group with shared experiences, is also a common treatment for PTSD. Superman's death was the first step in a journey.

ETA: I see Affleck's Batman or his arc as resembling Saul/Paul's in the Bible and Edmund Pevensie's in The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe. They're dynamic and compelling characters whose dark pasts enrich rather than tarnish their stories.
I don't care what Bruce's "arc" tries to resemble, or what it homages, it doesn't make it a lesser hogwash. Terrible foundation for the character in a cinematic universe.
 
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Nah, that just seems like fanboy rage to me.

The only thing Reeves inherits is an experienced Batman, who has an established batfamily, and has faced many of his foes over the years. He doesnt even have to deal with issues like a famous character being dead or something, he has all the characters at their disposal.

Batman may have made mistakes in his 20 years, and bad decisions, but what really matters is what he is when Reeves inherits him, and that is a traditional older Batman. The rest doesnt really matter to the GA, or Reeves or the story. The only people who will care are people who didnt like him in BvS.
 
idiot09, I don't think you should accuse anyone of being a fanboy. Definitely not you.

If they insist on continuing this storyline, well, it sucks for me, good for you.
 
We're all fan boys and fan girls. Just because he mentioned Fanboy rage doesn't mean he isn't saying he isn't a fan boy. He's just not an enraged one.

It's like me saying someone's a vile human being. It doesn't make me not a human being just not a vile one.
 
Excuse me, what about non-cisgendered fans?
 
Excuse me, what about non-cisgendered fans?

It doesn't really matter to my point I was generalising. Let's just call everyone "fans".

Please don't try to turn this into something it isn't because I'm sick and tired of people been "offended" by stuff because they want to be.
 
idiot09, I don't think you should accuse anyone of being a fanboy. Definitely not you.

If they insist on continuing this storyline, well, it sucks for me, good for you.

I'm definitely a fanboy, never said otherwise. I just said it looked to me, it looked to me a fanboy issue, not a real one. Didnt imply you were one.

Anyway, my point is I dont think them continuing the storyline should suck for either me or you. Whether it sucks depends on what Reeves does with Batman. Its a fresh story.

I hope you like what they do with Batman in JL and Batman.
 
I'm definitely a fanboy, never said otherwise. I just said it looked to me, it looked to me a fanboy issue, not a real one. Didnt imply you were one.

Anyway, my point is I dont think them continuing the storyline should suck for either me or you. Whether it sucks depends on what Reeves does with Batman. Its a fresh story.

I hope you like what they do with Batman in JL and Batman.
This is a healthy attitude. We will see.
 
It doesn't really matter to my point I was generalising. Let's just call everyone "fans".

Please don't try to turn this into something it isn't because I'm sick and tired of people been "offended" by stuff because they want to be.

I was kidding lol
 
"I don't know every detail of the plan so there must be no plan."

It's absurd.

Because nothing screams "we have a plan" like kicking almost twenty films into various stages of production for one franchise.

Honest question, you've been defending this supposed plan for quite some time now so.... when are we finally going to see it? Or are you just going to keep insisting that one exists apropos of absolutely nothing?
 
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Why should you expect them to reveal there plans to us? They have no need to.

Pre internet we didn't hear about films until there was something to hear about. We live in a spoilt generation where people have to know everything yesterday.
 
Why should you expect them to reveal there plans to us? They have no need to.

Pre internet we didn't hear about films until there was something to hear about. We live in a spoilt generation where people have to know everything yesterday.

I don't expect them to reveal their plan, but at some point I expect them to stop kicking numerous films into production and instead focus on making some of the dozen plus films they've already got in development.

Things seem to be changing with WB'S "plan" every other week, yet people like the Guard have been insisting for years at this point that there is a plan in place. If that were true we'd have definitive proof by now but lo and behold, things are still drastically shifting behind the scenes. When's that Justice League sequel coming out? Who is going to be Batman in his next solo movie? Remind me how many Bat-related spin-offs have been announced in the past six months? What's been going on with that Flash movie they announced years ago? Why is Justice League Dark going back to the drawing board? I could keep going.
 
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I don't need to see a plan, what I need to see is them to settle down and start making the films they say they were going to make. It's simple.

Things seem to be changing with WB'S "plan" every other week, yet people like the Guard have been insisting for years at this point that there is a plan in place. If that were true we'd have definitive proof by now but lo and behold, things are still drastically shifting behind the scenes. Remind me how many Bat-related spin-offs have been announced in the past six months? When's that Justice League sequel coming out? Who is going to be Batman in his next solo movie? What's been going on with that Flash movie they announced years ago? Why is Justice League Dark going back to the drawing board? I could keep going.

Some of the films are been made Aquaman is filming. Shazam starts filming next year.

Others are in pre production. Some will get made some won't. Some will be more successful than others and from that will plans change. That's the movie business for you.
 
If I have any discontent with WB it's the failure of a standalone Superman sequel. Hoping after JL we get a clear answer in regards to MOS 2.
 
If I have any discontent with WB it's the failure of a standalone Superman sequel. Hoping after JL we get a clear answer in regards to MOS 2.

Agreed there
 
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