All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[ManWithNoName18]

I'm assuming the difference is that Shazam isn't being touted as "event" as those films wherein everyone just had to know ahead of any official trailers.

I suppose if he is in the movie as an important supporting character it could be kept under wraps. But I do think we'd see him in the marketing/trailers.

 

[jmc]

The fact this idea is even being considered suggests WB have no idea what to do with the character. Him turning up in other movies will do nothing but make the audience question why he didn’t just save the day in the first place.

 

[misslane38]

The fact this idea is even being considered suggests WB have no idea what to do with the character. Him turning up in other movies will do nothing but make the audience question why he didn’t just save the day in the first place.

That's a bit presumptuous, don't you think? Superheroes cameo in others' comics all the time; usually it's a sign of respect. Superman famously did so in a Shazam story that I can see them replicating just as Smallville did in its ninth season episode "Warrior."

 

[misslane38]

No no, I don't mean it's a shame that he might show up in other films! I meant it's a shame if they're considering that instead giving us a Supes solo earlier.

I don't think it's so much "instead of" but as a two-part approach. While taking time to craft the best sequel, goodwill and recognition can be cultivated with appearances.

 

[FunkMiller]

That makes zero sense. No big marvel character needs to team up with anyone, spider man didn’t need it in 2001, Iron man didn’t in 2008 , black panther didn’t in 2018. Batman is as flawed as any marvel hero and that’s actually his big advantage and the reason he has been the premiere dc hero over the years unlike Superman , for example, that lost his popularity in the movies extremely quick. Of course dc should have started with solo films, and many of them, but the reasons you present about why dc characters shouldn’t team up is weird.

Oh and being a “God” is a big no no for most of the GA , hell the cultural dc phenomenon “Wonder Woman” did 800 million at the bo, the cultural marvel phenomenon “black panther” did 1.350 billion.

Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not talking about how much money any of them have made... I’m talking about how well they play together narratively. The Marvel characters play better together than the DC ones do, IMO. DC should have avoided Marvel’s game plan, and stuck to solo films.

Oh, and Superman would make more money than any other character, if he was actually put in a good film that played to his strengths. This has not happened since 1978.

 

[Iceman]

No no, I don't mean it's a shame that he might show up in other films! I meant it's a shame if they're considering that instead giving us a Supes solo earlier.

For me it's a shame we didn't get MoS 2 and a Batman solo rather than diving right into BvS.

 

[FunkMiller]

For me it's a shame we didn't get MoS 2 and a Batman solo rather than diving right into BvS.

Completely agree. But then, they panicked when MoS underperformed and released to a mixed reception. We would have got MoS 2 if the first film had been better.

 

[Johnglen]

Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not talking about how much money any of them have made... I’m talking about how well they play together narratively. The Marvel characters play better together than the DC ones do, IMO. DC should have avoided Marvel’s game plan, and stuck to solo films.

Oh, and Superman would make more money than any other character, if he was actually put in a good film that played to his strengths. This has not happened since 1978.

Nah Superman is extremely outdated and not really that popular outside the u.s. We aren’t in 1960 anymore. Warner has tried everything with the character, a direct sequel to the first two films, a reimagining of the character with tons of action , pairing him with Batman ...everything. We live in the age of black panther, not in the age of Superman. Even being put in a “good” film, whatever that means, wouldn’t make that movie make more money than other popular characters like black panther, spider man, Batman e.t.c.

 

[Iceman]

Nah Superman is extremely outdated and not really that popular outside the u.s. We aren’t in 1960 anymore. Warner has tried everything with the character, a direct sequel to the first two films, a reimagining of the character with tons of action , pairing him with Batman ...everything. We live in the age of black panther, not in the age of Superman. Even being put in a “good” film, whatever that means, wouldn’t make that movie make more money than other popular characters like black panther, spider man, Batman e.t.c.

Which aspect of Superman is outdated?

Earnest old-fashioned hero? Cap is popular though.

Uber powerful (overpowered) hero with barely any weaknesses? Thor is gaining popularity quickly, and even more so as his powers have ramped up.

 

[FunkMiller]

Nah Superman is extremely outdated and not really that popular outside the u.s. We aren’t in 1960 anymore. Warner has tried everything with the character, a direct sequel to the first two films, a reimagining of the character with tons of action , pairing him with Batman ...everything. We live in the age of black panther, not in the age of Superman. Even being put in a “good” film, whatever that means, wouldn’t make that movie make more money than other popular characters like black panther, spider man, Batman e.t.c.

You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried

In our current social and political climate, a Superman movie that positions him as the ‘ultimate immigrant’ who stands for truth and justice in a world full of lies and injustice... makes 2 billion dollars.

Don’t begin to kid yourself that Superman isn’t relevant to today’s society. He just needs someone to frame him correctly in that context.

 

[Superchan]

Nah Superman is extremely outdated and not really that popular outside the u.s. We aren’t in 1960 anymore. Warner has tried everything with the character, a direct sequel to the first two films, a reimagining of the character with tons of action , pairing him with Batman ...everything.

Stop trolling, warners tried everything except actually making a superman movie where he isn't a dialogue challenged semi-mute.

We live in the age of black panther, not in the age of Superman. Even being put in a “good” film, whatever that means, wouldn’t make that movie make more money than other popular characters like black panther, spider man, Batman e.t.c.

A good movie means just that, one that pleases the critics and the fans alike.
Black panther is an anomaly, a well made, culturally relevant, crowd pleasing movie. This isn't the 'age of black panther' but rather the age of well made, crowd pleasing Marvel branded films.
Spiderman's previous reboot (amazing spiderman films) underperformed to such a degree that Sonny had to go (crawling up) to marvel to reboot their ailing IP and marvel had to promote spidey as Iron lad junior inorder to get people to come and watch opening weekend.
As for Batman, well guess what that underperforming BvS movie that you blamed superman for had batman's name on it and the Batman led JL was a mega flop.
Just remember MOS sold 128 million dollars worth of tickets on it's opening weekend, which was about double what Amazing Spider-man and Batman begins (both were reboots as was MOS) did in their respective weekends it's not superman's fault that Zack Snyder made was was widely perceived to be a piece of **** movie that had no legs.

 

[Micromind]

As amazing MCU movies have been some facts.

1. Recent Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. despite having the most poplar Superhero in Asia and Iron Man in it (he was featured heavily in marketing), apart from that, even The Amazing Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. at Box Office.

2. Hulk is considered as A-lister, but his two solo movies struggled at Box Office.

3. Despite having a lineup of great actors, star-power, none of the X-Men movies have earned more than 800 mil.


So, it's not easy earning that much money, having great actors, star power, A-list characters, big name directors is not enough to earn that much money.

 

[Tg11]

I mean after what I saw last night after what I witnessed watching Infinity War last night I was like DC hell the whole DCEU in general is blown out of the water. I say that only in the sense that they can't possibly compete with Marvel at all in any way now. However, I am not knocking the DCEU at all in any way. Fact of the matter is is that at heart I am also a DC fan too. I love both film universes but at the same time the DCEU definitely has a long way to go if it means even hoping to get in the same league.

I will say DC did us all a favor when they got rid of Zack Snyder. However, the problem is is that they don't have a dedicated figurehead that oversees all projects much like Feige does for Marvel. If DC had that then maybe just maybe they would be in good hands.

 

[Erzengel]

As amazing MCU movies have been some facts.

1. Recent Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. despite having the most poplar Superhero in Asia and Iron Man in it (he was featured heavily in marketing), apart from that, even The Amazing Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. at Box Office.

2. Hulk is considered as A-lister, but his two solo movies struggled at Box Office.

3. Despite having a lineup of great actors, star-power, none of the X-Men movies have earned more than 800 mil.


So, it's not easy earning that much money, having great actors, star power, A-list characters, big name directors is not enough to earn that much money.

I think some things you aren't taking into account.

Spider-Man - Spider-Man 3 was the highest grossing CBM and still in top 10. Maybe, you can blame Sony for it's mostly tepid releases. While HC didn't score $1B, again it's still in the top 10 for CBM at $880M.

Hulk - The original Hulk which has it's fans and I think some people would think it's good, I think we can agree wasn't great. Same thing with TIH. Which also was the start of the MCU juggernaut building. I'm not sure how much of the GA at the time knew Hulk was in the same universe as Iron Man.

X-Men - I think I've come to the conclusion that the GA has never fully committed to the franchise as they have with Batman or the Avengers.

In the end, while I would put Superman, Batman, WW, Spider-Man, Wolverine at the top of the comic book character pop culture all time favorites. I don't think it's always a uniform transition into general audience appreciation.

However, what I would add that I think BvS benefitted from Batman and Superman and probably the characters with the inclusion of WW is the main reason why it did better despite the reviews. BvS is in the top 10 grossing for CBM at the moment. Probably Top 11 after IW starts making it's climb.

 

[Tg11]

They should have structured the whole DCEU differently because had they done that they would be right on par with Marvel which basically means had they focused on solos first before building to Justice League then we would be talking about DC every bit as much as we do Marvel

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

For me it's a shame we didn't get MoS 2 and a Batman solo rather than diving right into BvS.

I absolutely agree.

In our current social and political climate, a Superman movie that positions him as the ‘ultimate immigrant’ who stands for truth and justice in a world full of lies and injustice...

Interesting angle.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

They should have structured the whole DCEU differently because had they done that they would be right on par with Marvel which basically means had they focused on solos first before building to Justice League...

I don't know whether they'd have been on a par with Marvel (I like to think they would) but they'd certainly have been in a much better place than they are now.

...then we would be talking about DC every bit as much as we do Marvel

I think we do, but sadly not in quite the same way.

 

[misslane38]

In our current social and political climate, a Superman movie that positions him as the ‘ultimate immigrant’ who stands for truth and justice in a world full of lies and injustice... makes 2 billion dollars.

 

[Jochimus]

You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried

In our current social and political climate, a Superman movie that positions him as the ‘ultimate immigrant’ who stands for truth and justice in a world full of lies and injustice... makes 2 billion dollars.

Don’t begin to kid yourself that Superman isn’t relevant to today’s society. He just needs someone to frame him correctly in that context.

I definitely think it'd make a difference.

 

[FunkMiller]

Ah, sorry. I should have also pointed out that the film has to be good.

 

[misslane38]

Ah, sorry. I should have also pointed out that the film has to be good.

Sure.

 

[Johnglen]

As amazing MCU movies have been some facts.

1. Recent Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. despite having the most poplar Superhero in Asia and Iron Man in it (he was featured heavily in marketing), apart from that, even The Amazing Spider-Man movie failed to earn 1 bil. at Box Office.

2. Hulk is considered as A-lister, but his two solo movies struggled at Box Office.

3. Despite having a lineup of great actors, star-power, none of the X-Men movies have earned more than 800 mil.


So, it's not easy earning that much money, having great actors, star power, A-list characters, big name directors is not enough to earn that much money.

What are these facts supposed to mean ? Spider man in 2001 was an event, it crushed a Star Wars film releasing at the same time. The original trilogy did crazy money. Even the awful ASM films actually did decent at the bo, much better than Batman and robin or Batman begins or Superman 3/4 or Superman returns or man of steel. Spider man homecoming was the third reboot of the same character in the span of 15 years , just compare what it did with Batman begins.

Hulk has an issue with solo films. The ang Lee one was terrible and not in the spirit of the comic, the Incredible Hulk was a disappointment bo-wise. Still the character works in team up films and brings extra cash in each movie he appears.

The X-men films were mishandled by fox and singer (overrated hack) from the beginning. The first movies had extremely conservative budgets for such spectacular heroes and the whole singer concept for these heroes became boring extremely fast. You will see what an x-men movie can do at the bo when marvel studios releases one. It is a property with huge box office potential.

Oh and most of the films you mention are actually NOT MCU films.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

They should have structured the whole DCEU differently because had they done that they would be right on par with Marvel which basically means had they focused on solos first before building to Justice League then we would be talking about DC every bit as much as we do Marvel

I'm sure the way WB was thinking about it was that BVS (first meeting of Batman and Superman) would be a massive success, and then set the stage for a JL movie to launch the rest of the heroes.

The catch was that it relied on one movie (BVS) that absolutely needed to be successful to get people to watch a JL movie.

 

[Johnglen]

I'm sure the way WB was thinking about it was that BVS (first meeting of Batman and Superman) would be a massive success, and then set the stage for a JL movie to launch the rest of the heroes.

The catch was that it relied on one movie (BVS) that absolutely needed to be successful to get people to watch a JL movie.

Great point. BvS basically doomed the entire dccu, it was a milestone for how the dccu would be received by the viewing public. A succesfull BvS would have rewritten history for the dccu, though I still believe warner’s whole approach was sloppy, inpatient and greedy.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Great point. BvS basically doomed the entire dccu, it was a milestone for how the dccu would be received by the viewing public. A succesfull BvS would have rewritten history for the dccu, though I still believe warner’s whole approach was sloppy, inpatient and greedy.

TBH I really thought that a JL movie would still make decent money, even if it didn't get the best reviews.

I was the dude that made the JL boxoffice poll with the lowest option being 700 million. When the opening weekend reports starting coming in I was shocked it was that low. Did not even register to me it was possible.