All Things DCEU News, Discussion, and Speculation - Part 5

[Tra-El]

Why would anyone care to see this though? Causing havoc is hardly a good enough selling point.

I think it's a curious way of story telling seeing the fight in the perspective of the villain. Having Batman take on the Joker in a centric Batman film is one thing. Having Joker take on Batman in a Joker film is something completely different as far as approach. It could work and work well.

 

[jmc]

I think it's a curious way of story telling seeing the fight in the perspective of the villain. Having Batman take on the Joker in a centric Batman film is one thing. Having Joker take on Batman in a Joker film is something completely different as far as approach. It could work and work well.

But you haven't actually given any details as to how it could work though. Say we do a Joker lead movie with Batman in a supporting roll, what's the overall story we are telling? What's the pitch for this idea outside of it being different? How do you get the audience to invest in a story whereby the hero plays second fiddle to the villain? Who is the audience suppose to cheer for?

 

[Ninjablade]

Yeah, but it turns them all into anti-heroes. When you start giving them a reason to be heroic, even in the context of the criminal underworld, it's hard to then turn them back into just a pure villain again against the real heroes. Catwoman is a character that can walk the line, she's always had swaying allegiances, but for other characters when you start pushing them from the black into the grey then none of them become inherently bad guys anymore. When you start blurring the lines you end up with something that doesn't appeal to anyone.

I feel like this is what happened to Loki, who for me got increasingly less interesting after each appearance.

I mean am I supposed to think anyone in Suicide Squad is a straight villain after their movie? They saved the world and stopped a bad guy by choice. Now if they go on to star as a villain in a say Batman movie, you lose what should be vital character development if you make them the villain, but if they toe the line of both sides then it just becomes a weird spot of them just being there because they're popular.

 

[Tra-El]

But you haven't actually given any details as to how it could work though. Say we do a Joker lead movie with Batman in a supporting roll, what's the overall story we are telling? What's the pitch for this idea outside of it being different? How do you get the audience to invest in a story whereby the hero plays second fiddle to the villain? Who is the audience suppose to cheer for?

Oh, I didn't realize I was supposed to pitch a movie here. I'll probably ramble because I really don't have a 400 page script ready but I would do something along the lines of Joker establishing his dominance on the streets of Gotham and how he became the Clown Prince. Have him orchestrate in the slums and be involved in highly organized crime in sections of Gotham in places even Batman hasn't even figured out. Really build his repretoir with his goons and have sequence's where he's escaping Batman and how he manages to do so. Let the audience in on his motives and secrets of torment and even have run ins with Gordon and the GPD and build a story around that. Get him involved in some disturbing storylines that makes the audience aware of how scary of a madman they're dealing with where it won't allow them to be comfortable in rooting for him but at the same time, hone in on the villain aspect of how and why Joker remains Batman's biggest foe.

I think the audience is smart enough to understand the property. Heath Ledgers Joker was beloved and the performance was so good that it didn't matter who was rooting for who because a Joker and Batman throwdown is a sick love story in and of itself and the audience knows that history.

 

[The Guard]

I don't think any of the villains turned antihero in SUICIDE SQUAD are/were intended to be key antagonists/villains moving forward in the DCEU.

They can say "solo Joker movie" all they want. When bloggers mention SUICIDE SQUAD in the same breath, you know Harley Quinn is likely to show up, if not others, like Deathstroke.

Assuming the other solo Joker project isn't dead in the water, this is probably an evolution of the Joker/Harley film that has been in development.

Could well be moving toward the Legion of Doom...

Could be some version of Arkham Asylum...

We shall see.

 

[jmc]

Oh, I didn't realize I was supposed to pitch a movie here. I'll probably ramble because I really don't have a 400 page script ready but I would do something along the lines of Joker establishing his dominance on the streets of Gotham and how he became the Clown Prince. Have him orchestrate in the slums and be involved in highly organized crime in sections of Gotham in places even Batman hasn't even figured out. Really build his repretoir with his goons and have sequence's where he's escaping Batman and how he manages to do so. Let the audience in on his motives and secrets of torment and even have run ins with Gordon and the GPD and build a story around that. Get him involved in some disturbing storylines that makes the audience aware of how scary of a madman they're dealing with where it won't allow them to be comfortable in rooting for him but at the same time, hone in on the villain aspect of how and why Joker remains Batman's biggest foe.

I think the audience is smart enough to understand the property. Heath Ledgers Joker was beloved and the performance was so good that it didn't matter who was rooting for who because a Joker and Batman throwdown is a sick love story in and of itself and the audience knows that history.

But what's the end goal? Is he suppose to get away with his crimes in the end? Is he suppose to learn something? I just don't see how this is appealing to anyone. There's no selling point here.

 

[Fincher]

I don't think this is a good idea (nor do I think it'll probably get made), but it could be argued that this Joker is already burnt as a villain. First he had the unenviable task of following Heath Ledger's Joker (and Nicholson's, to a lesser extent). Then he was in a universe where Batman was older, meaning their first encounter already happened, so a movie with him as the villain would be "Batman fights The Joker again, and probably puts him back in Arkham again so he can escape again". Then his introduction in Suicide Squad wasn't well received. Probably the best they can manage at this point is having him as a supporting player in Harley and other movies.

 

[The Guard]

The Joker is the most overexposed villain in the comics and animation...next to perhaps Lex Luthor.

And yet he's still incredibly popular. There's a reason for that; the character has immense potential, and there are a lot of interesting things about him, and his interactions with others in his universe. There's no reason a film featuring him or focusing on him couldn't be as interesting as a lot of other concepts.

 

[Greens]

If this movie really has to happen, can they please make the Joker more "David Bowie" and less "****** impression of Drexl Spivey?"

I think Leto will use his power to make some changes to the character. De-Ayer it.

 

[FunkMiller]

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/...ros-1202831025/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

In addition to the non-DCEU Joker movie, Leto Joker will be getting his own movie


Leto's a good actor and I'd like to see him get another crack at the Joker in a better movie with a different writer/director. But not in his own movie. The whole concept of a Joker movie is still kind of strange in a "who wants this?" way.

And I felt the "who wants this?" feeling was a big factor in the recent BO performance of SOLO

I mean, this is just clown shoes of the highest order, isn’t it?

“Here’s a Joker movie! Here’s another Joker movie! No! No! It won’t be confusing at all, everyone!

“You may have hated Leto in the critically derided Suicide Squad, but here’s two hours of him anyway!”

They have absolutely no idea what they’re doing at all. It’s the ‘throw **** at a wall and see what sticks’ school of planning. No vision. No direction. No clue.

 

[Tra-El]

But what's the end goal? Is he suppose to get away with his crimes in the end? Is he suppose to learn something? I just don't see how this is appealing to anyone. There's no selling point here.

The endgame is the endless rendezvous like it's been for many generations. There's no learning on the Joker side of things. Just pure and utter obsession. Throw him in Gotham and it's his dance. Throw him in Arkham and it's his world. That's the point of Joker. Horror character's like Michael Myers never go away for a reason and a horror element could be in play, especially with Hamada taking reigns.

Of course there could be something totally different here in terms of story or even if Batman is involved at all. Harley could be a key factor in taking these villain-led movies in a new direction. Just have a good story and a perception that makes sense and another angle to CBM's are born.

It's either utter ridiculous or sheer genius. Nobody asked for it but that's why the big directors and creators in Hollywood get paid. We'll see if they can pull a chaotic character like Joker off in a centric setting.

 

[Tra-El]

They have absolutely no idea what they’re doing at all. It’s the ‘throw **** at a wall and see what sticks’ school of planning. No vision. No direction. No clue.

We really need answers here. This is getting ridiculous and who knows how many of these films will even see the light of day? A clear cut breakdown would be nice. DC fans at least deserve that.

 

[chamber-music]

Some villains have a track record of being anti-heroes like Black Adam and Deadshot.

I think it is going to be a challenge making a character like the Joker a protagonist in a movie. You are either going to have to justify his awful murderous actions or make him an anti-hero.

Sometimes people conflate the popularity of a compelling and entertaining villain with them being someone the audience roots for because they agree with the villains actions.

The reported Todd Phillips/Martin Scorsese Joker is rumored to draw from the sympathetic failed stand up comedian strong armed by criminals origin from The Killing Joke graphic novel.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I think it's easy to have a villain film that pits villain against villain. Have a hit out on Joker then he goes after whoever wants him dead.

 

[NHawk19]

Furthering the worst depiction, of one of the best characters in DC comics is just

After the stories from SS about how Leto acted during filming, I'm not even sure who would want to play along side him. . . .

This is sort of like backing the ship up and ramming the iceberg again . . . .

Why can't they just get Bruce Timm to create a live action universe?

 

[marcvader]

I have no desire to see more of the worst depiction of the Joker I've seen to date. Besides what was written for the role in Suicide Squad, I just hated everything about Leto's choices for the character.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I mean, this is just clown shoes of the highest order, isn’t it?

“Here’s a Joker movie! Here’s another Joker movie! No! No! It won’t be confusing at all, everyone!

“You may have hated Leto in the critically derided Suicide Squad, but here’s two hours of him anyway!”

They have absolutely no idea what they’re doing at all. It’s the ‘throw **** at a wall and see what sticks’ school of planning. No vision. No direction. No clue.

Maybe it's an Expanded Joker Universe. We'll have a Joker movie set in the 80s or 90s and it will have a Taxi Driver feel! Then we'll have a Letoker movie where he spends the whole movie purring like a drugged up cat and pining for his lost girlfriend! Then we'll have "Little Joker", a movie about a 13 year old kid who falls into a vat of chemicals and begins terrorizing his local high school! Think "Problem Child", only with mass murder! Ultimately, these films will all lead up to "Into the Jokerverse", a film in which each Joker will meet the alternative versions of himself and it will either be a confirmation of the existence of a multiverse, or just a deep dive into the Joker's twisted psyche! The possibilities are endless!

Shoot me now.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

TBH, I'm more anticipated with Phoenix's Joker film. I mean Scorcese ? One of the best director of all time. Joaquin Phoenix ? Certainly one of the most gifted and talented actors out there.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

Scorsese isnt directing it. Only producing I believe.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah. The guy who did the Hangover Trilogy and Starsky & Hutch is directing it.

 

[Boom]

I have no desire to see more of the worst depiction of the Joker I've seen to date. Besides what was written for the role in Suicide Squad, I just hated everything about Leto's choices for the character.

It could've been worse. We could've gotten "Haha" eyebrows and whatever the hell these shirts are:

 

[Deck Rickard]

It almost could've been worse. We could've gotten "Haha" eyebrows and whatever the hell those shirts are:

I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

 

[jmc]

The endgame is the endless rendezvous like it's been for many generations. There's no learning on the Joker side of things. Just pure and utter obsession. Throw him in Gotham and it's his dance. Throw him in Arkham and it's his world. That's the point of Joker. Horror character's like Michael Myers never go away for a reason and a horror element could be in play, especially with Hamada taking reigns.

Of course there could be something totally different here in terms of story or even if Batman is involved at all. Harley could be a key factor in taking these villain-led movies in a new direction. Just have a good story and a perception that makes sense and another angle to CBM's are born.

It's either utter ridiculous or sheer genius. Nobody asked for it but that's why the big directors and creators in Hollywood get paid. We'll see if they can pull a chaotic character like Joker off in a centric setting.

You’re speaking in generalities which is not a good platform for a sellable story. The story has to be more than just the villain being villainous, otherwise what’s the point? No audience is going to want to see this type of film, what you’re describing is just far too vague.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Don't give WB any ideas.