All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

[Rowsdower!]

Mad, as in angry? Nah. Mad as in, going bat-sh** crazy over the lack of news? Well...

This is what happens... this is what happens, Larry... when we go for weeks with nothing... nothing... nothing...

 

[Sabaoth]

Alright, as promised... the WEEKLY SUPERMAN NO NEWS RECAP!

This week, Dr. Kevorkian died. Despite a name that sounds like a comic book supervillain and the fact that his contraversial practice of euthanasia has caused some people to brand him a murderer, Dr. Kevorkian never crossed paths with the Man of Steel. We just brought him up because, well... what the hell else is there to talk about?

Also this week, Ryan Gosling's name was mentioned in connection with Superman! What is the connection you might ask? Might this young, popular, extremely talented young actor be appearing in Zack Snyder's Man of Steel?!!!

Wait for it...

NOPE! The big scoop this week is that Gosling turned down a role in the film! But wait... maybe this will at least give us a clue as to other characters that might be in this film, right? Maybe Gosling was in consideration for Lex Luthor, a key role that has yet to be cast! Well, here's the part that makes this a NO NEWS EXCLUSIVE... we don't have a f**king clue! Truth be told, we're not even sure if the story about Gosling has any truth to it whatsoever. But we're sure about one thing. As of right now... Ryan Gosling has nothing to do with the new Superman movie!

Finally, this week we got a picture of DC's apparently revamped concept of Superman (in the comics). It's not a drastic departure, but fans will note the high collar, the altered Superman "S" and the apparent lack of briefs. Some have speculated that this could be a glimpse of what Superman's costume will look like in the Man of Steel film.

Well, NO NEWS has an answer for you: again, we've have no f**king idea! But we do know that the changes in the comic were made specifically to appease Jim Lee, who still can't draw a traditional Superman "S." When asked to elaborate, Lee gave the following explanation: "Yeah, I don't really give a crap because it's an easy paycheck for me. Everyone just kisses my ass and tells me how great I am, so when I wake up one day and decide to change the 'S' symbol to a backwards 'Z' sort of thing, they're like, 'Okay, no problem, Jim! We'll just revamp the entire universe!' It's pretty sweet."

And so there you have it. Get ready this weekend for another SUPER NO NEWS SUNDAY in which we'll find out more actors that WON'T be appearing in Man of Steel. Also, don't miss The Killing on AMC, just because it's better than any of the other crap on TV right now. See you next week!

Yep. That was the REAL news. No ******** in it.
No mention of script leaks or casting "news" from anonymous-so-it's-not-my-fault-if-it-turns-out-not-to-be-true sources this week; unless you count the one about the new Superman costume fitting in its belt buckle.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

Considering the X-Men First Class numbers, it's clear that today the 90% of the sh franchises can't do more than 150-180m in the U.S. box office. X-Men was a +200m franchise five years ago, today it is doing numbers comparable to Fantastic Four. Otherwise we could say the same thing about Thor, but it made more than 400m world wide, which is, IMO, a great result.

At this point The Man of Steel target is to cross the 200m mark in the US and the 230m mark overseas for 450-500m ww. IMO it would be a great success for a reboot, comparable to Batman Begins numbers.
I'm very interested to see the GL's b.o. run. Maybe the public is looking for bright and positive characters (like Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man) and the time for dark ad "complicated" superheroes is over.

 

[DieSmiling]

Considering the X-Men First Class numbers, it's clear that today the 90% of the sh franchises can't do more than 150-180m in the U.S. box office. X-Men was a +200m franchise five years ago, today it is doing numbers comparable to Fantastic Four. Otherwise we could say the same thing about Thor, but it made more than 400m world wide, which is, IMO, a great result.

At this point The Man of Steel target is to cross the 200m mark in the US and the 230m mark overseas for 450-500m ww. IMO it would be a great success for a reboot, comparable to Batman Begins numbers.

I agree. As of now, Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man are the only superheroes who are proved commodities over 200 mil (and are all over 300 mil)

Thor and XM:FC aren't going to do it, and I doubt anyone thinks GL or Cap will either.

Anything over 200 mil domestic would be good for Supes. IMO, being critcally acclaimed is important. Batman Begins was solid if unspectacular, but it's reception was huge as it led to good WOM for the sequel and lots of DVD sales.

 

[Showtime]

I agree. As of now, Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man are the only superheroes who are proved commodities over 200 mil (and are all over 300 mil)

Thor and XM:FC aren't going to do it, and I doubt anyone thinks GL or Cap will either.

Anything over 200 mil domestic would be good for Supes. IMO, being critcally acclaimed is important. Batman Begins was solid if unspectacular, but it's reception was huge as it led to good WOM for the sequel and lots of DVD sales.

I thought Cap had the best chance to be honest, to hit 200 million, but now I don't think it will at all. I do think it will make more than Thor though, but we'll see.

I think over 200 million is good for most any movie, my only problem is if Superman makes around 210 million to 220 million domestic, has the studio really gained much ground? I personally don't think that is actually going to happen. I think Superman will make some bank, but what if it does? Is it the character then?

 

[bgshw44]

I thought Cap had the best chance to be honest, to hit 200 million, but now I don't think it will at all. I do think it will make more than Thor though, but we'll see.

I think over 200 million is good for most any movie, my only problem is if Superman makes around 210 million to 220 million domestic, has the studio really gained much ground? I personally don't think that is actually going to happen. I think Superman will make some bank, but what if it does? Is it the character then?

the character is still quite popular with the general public, its all about the quality of the movie and how it is marketed. superman is more popular than transformers and any of the other characters, minus batman because of the recent films. if transformers can make that much, i would be shocked if suprman couldnt make $250-$275 mill the first time around, i think a sequel will deliver much stronger results.

 

[Sabaoth]

Considering the X-Men First Class numbers, it's clear that today the 90% of the sh franchises can't do more than 150-180m in the U.S. box office. X-Men was a +200m franchise five years ago, today it is doing numbers comparable to Fantastic Four. Otherwise we could say the same thing about Thor, but it made more than 400m world wide, which is, IMO, a great result.

At this point The Man of Steel target is to cross the 200m mark in the US and the 230m mark overseas for 450-500m ww. IMO it would be a great success for a reboot, comparable to Batman Begins numbers.
I'm very interested to see the GL's b.o. run. Maybe the public is looking for bright and positive characters (like Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man) and the time for dark ad "complicated" superheroes is over.

I think it that in order for a SH movie to be successful it needs to crossover beyond the limited SH fanbase.
The Dark Knight was not just a super hero movie; it was a great mystery, thriller flick and a whole lot more.
If WB has 200m domestic as a target then it would have left Singer, Routh, and company in place.
The target IMO IS Iron Man numbers.
That's why they have Nolan and his people involved; they are going all out to make sure this is not just another "super hero" movie like Thor or Green Lantern.
The only way to do that is to deliver something we haven't seen before that will appeal to the greatest number of people.
I'm sure Man of Steel will also be able to stand out as something more than a SH movie just like The Dark Knight did.
That's why they gave Singer the boot.
I'm sure they won't disappoint us!

 

[Sabaoth]

Is it the character then?

I think the character we see will have little resemblance to the Superman from the S:TM and SR.
I think those who think that presenting the character in a traditional manner that is reflective of the comics are a little naive.

 

[Superman2007]

I agree. As of now, Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man are the only superheroes who are proved commodities over 200 mil (and are all over 300 mil)

Thor and XM:FC aren't going to do it, and I doubt anyone thinks GL or Cap will either.

Anything over 200 mil domestic would be good for Supes. IMO, being critcally acclaimed is important. Batman Begins was solid if unspectacular, but it's reception was huge as it led to good WOM for the sequel and lots of DVD sales.

I think Green Lantern will go over 200 mil. for four reasons:

1. WB has improved their marketing quite a bit.

2. The movie will play well on IMAX and 3D...Like Avatar it will be able to truly take advantage of the technology.

3. It looks kid friendly ala Spider-Man.

4. Martin Campbell

 

[Wheels]

I think the character we see will have little resemblance to the Superman from the S:TM and SR.
I think those who think that presenting the character in a traditional manner that is reflective of the comics are a little naive.

So the guy who was respectful to the core of Batman's character is going disregard core aspects of Superman? No matter the style of Nolan's batfilms they are still pretty faithful, and have many elements from specific comc arcs.

Zack Snyder's comic adaptations have been very faithful to the original material they were based on. Superman's character will not be fundamentally changed.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I agree. As of now, Batman, Spider-Man and Iron Man are the only superheroes who are proved commodities over 200 mil (and are all over 300 mil)

Thor and XM:FC aren't going to do it, and I doubt anyone thinks GL or Cap will either.

Anything over 200 mil domestic would be good for Supes. IMO, being critcally acclaimed is important. Batman Begins was solid if unspectacular, but it's reception was huge as it led to good WOM for the sequel and lots of DVD sales.

I agree.

So the guy who was respectful to the core of Batman's character is going disregard core aspects of Superman? No matter the style of Nolan's batfilms they are still pretty faithful, and have many elements from specific comc arcs.

Zack Snyder's comic adaptations have been very faithful to the original material they were based on. Superman's character will not be fundamentally changed.

I concur.

 

[Wheels]

I mean lets say they want to get away from the boyscout image, and make Superman a hard ass who plays by his own rules, guess what? That's golden age Superman, which is the original version of the character, so this idea that the film won't reflect the comics doesn't make any sense.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

the character is still quite popular with the general public, its all about the quality of the movie and how it is marketed. superman is more popular than transformers and any of the other characters, minus batman because of the recent films. if transformers can make that much, i would be shocked if suprman couldnt make $250-$275 mill the first time around, i think a sequel will deliver much stronger results.

I agree. If the movie is good, it will make a good amount of money. Superman Returns was a bad sh movie able to cross the 200m mark. It's a sort of record for a film of 154 minutes without action. I wonder if the "Superman" brand alone can do it. While it is difficult to relaunch the X-Men franchise after 4 films, with the man of steel you can still do everything: epic supervillains, action sequences never seen, explosions, flying etc.

I don't expect incredible numbers, nevertheless if there is a superhero franchise which can attract "mainstream public" it is still Superman.

 

[bgshw44]

I agree. If the movie is good, it will make a good amount of money. Superman Returns was a bad sh movie able to cross the 200m mark. It's a sort of record for a film of 154 minutes without action. I wonder if the "Superman" brand alone can do it. While it is difficult to relaunch the X-Men franchise after 4 films, with the man of steel you can still do everything: epic supervillains, action sequences never seen, explosions, flying etc.

I don't expect incredible numbers, nevertheless if there is a superhero franchise which can attract "mainstream public" it is still Superman.

Despite what i hear is a quality films, X-Men first class is for fanboys, the general audience doesn't care about the origin of xavier and magneto. if you think so, you are just lying to yourself.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Despite what i hear is a quality films, X-Men first class is for fanboys, the general audience doesn't care about the origin of xavier and magneto. if you think so, you are just lying to yourself.

The general public doesn't care about the origin of anyone until they see a preview to an origin movie they like.

 

[sf2]

exactly.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

I thought Cap had the best chance to be honest, to hit 200 million, but now I don't think it will at all. I do think it will make more than Thor though, but we'll see.

I think over 200 million is good for most any movie, my only problem is if Superman makes around 210 million to 220 million domestic, has the studio really gained much ground? I personally don't think that is actually going to happen. I think Superman will make some bank, but what if it does? Is it the character then?

I want to see Captain America, but imo the trailers are pedestrian and underwhelming, especially when compared to TF 3 (which is not a franchise that interests me) or Super 8. They've done the opposite of GL marketing, which is showing way too much. They're not showing enough CA to make it look compelling to the GA.

 

[Stephen K. Hone]

Despite what i hear is a quality films, X-Men first class is for fanboys, the general audience doesn't care about the origin of xavier and magneto. if you think so, you are just lying to yourself.

Saw XM:FC today. It's pretty good, but I liked Thor a whole lot more. Personally I find that if too many characters in a movie are Super human it gets boring. X3 sucked because everyone and his/her mother was a mutant. Hopefully Superman isn't full to the gunwales with Superhumans. Too many Superheroes and the novelty factor goes out the window.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

Despite what i hear is a quality films, X-Men first class is for fanboys, the general audience doesn't care about the origin of xavier and magneto. if you think so, you are just lying to yourself.

Why? It was exactly my point. Explain me why a good Superman movie (with a good cast) should be considered for "fanboys". Despite all I still consider that Superman is a brand far more recognizable for the mainstream public than X-Men (expecially after 5 films in ten years).

 

[bgshw44]

Why? It was exactly my point. Explain me why a good Superman movie (with a good cast) should be considered for "fanboys". Despite all I still consider that Superman is a brand far more recognizable for the mainstream public than X-Men (expecially after 5 films in ten years).

oh im sorry, we are on the same page. a good superman movie is absolutely mainstream!

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I mean lets say they want to get away from the boyscout image, and make Superman a hard ass who plays by his own rules, guess what? That's golden age Superman, which is the original version of the character, so this idea that the film won't reflect the comics doesn't make any sense.

Exactly. And no matter what they do, someone is going to be screaming 'They've done it all wrong' from one end of the Superman fandom, while someone else is going to rubbing their hands together on the other end.

Every single element that gets argued about in terms of this film, are things that have been done BOTH ways in the comics. Neither is wrong, neither is unfaithful.

So i've made peace with the fact that this movie may not please every fanboy out there.

All we really have to care about is whether or not Snyder and Nolan have managed to pull together parts of the mythos that a general modern audience can connect with. We have to trust that everything the omitt, everything they change etc, is because they have a good understanding of what will work; both within their vision for the film, and in today's cinema trends in general.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

oh im sorry, we are on the same page. a good superman movie is absolutely mainstream!

Of course . The first X-Men was a movie for fanboys, but it was even the first big budget sh movie since Batman&Robin. The genre was undoubtedly "fresh". This and the success of some actors like Hugh Jackman (who became a sex symbol) made it a "mainstream franchise". Infact X2 made more than 200m.
Despite all X-Men: First Class is a good movie, and I'm quite sure that it will do fine.

 

[ElDuderino]

The reality is MOS is behind the 8 ball already because it's a reboot that's following closely on what was generally perceived as a failed movie. It is going to have to be a very good movie with excellent marketing and a little bit of luck for it to make a lot of money. The best we can hope for is that it's a very well done movie that receives praise among critics and fanboys. If that's the case, then even if it isn't an absolute blowout at the box office, the perception will then be that the sequel will have much better success.

I think the same thing will happen with the X-Men: First Class franchise. People that miss it in the theater will eventually watch it on video and the very positive reception will feed into greater success in a sequel. If you look the X-Men opening weekends, the success of each movie is directly dependent on how good the previous movie was.

X1 - $54 million
X2 - $85 million (57% increase)
X3 - $103 million (21% increase)
W - $85 million (17% decrease)
X:FC - $56 million (34% decrease)

Given the critical and fan boy love for X-Men: First Class, you'll almost certainly see that trend reverse back to positive.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Considering the X-Men First Class numbers, it's clear that today the 90% of the sh franchises can't do more than 150-180m in the U.S. box office. X-Men was a +200m franchise five years ago, today it is doing numbers comparable to Fantastic Four. Otherwise we could say the same thing about Thor, but it made more than 400m world wide, which is, IMO, a great result.

At this point The Man of Steel target is to cross the 200m mark in the US and the 230m mark overseas for 450-500m ww. IMO it would be a great success for a reboot, comparable to Batman Begins numbers.
I'm very interested to see the GL's b.o. run. Maybe the public is looking for bright and positive characters (like Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man) and the time for dark ad "complicated" superheroes is over.

Your assessment is way, way too simple. You are not taking into account the myriad other variables that comes into play.

 

[Ita-KalEl]

Your assessment is way, way too simple. You are not taking into account the myriad other variables that comes into play.

I know, but I'm discussing in a fan forum about superhero movies. If someone wants to pay me, I promise that i will be more specific