All Things Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

Discussion in 'Man of Steel' started by Thread Manager, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. ConnorKon-El

    ConnorKon-El Amateur Film Nerd

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    I would love for John to live, but I'm 99.9999 % sure he is going to die in that tornado scene.
     
    #626
  2. Vagosnati

    Vagosnati Vag-El

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    My friends,i want to share with you a masterpiece superman movie i just recovered.
    it is so epic like any other superhero movie before :woot:
    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v59YISzTnas [/YT]
     
    #627
  3. 747

    747 Fanboy rivalry? Yawn.

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    The part about having to overcome that despite being so powerful, he can't save everyone is pretty much a part of his character to me. It's definitely gonna be there. It would be like not wanting Superman to save anyone in the last second, just cause it's so unoriginal.

    Not everything has to be all out original.
     
    #628
  4. Scarecrow_King

    Scarecrow_King Perpetually Annoyed

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    Not being able to save everyone definitely is a large part of what makes Superman an interesting character. Making it his father that teaches him that lesson is not a necessary part of that.

    Pa Kent dying wasn't a part of the original Superman mythos, was it? I thought the first time it happened was in STM.
     
    #629
  5. gkokujin

    gkokujin Well-Known Member

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    "All these powers...and I couldn't even save him"
     
    #630
  6. Nemeres

    Nemeres Easy, miss. I've got you.

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    I think he works better dead. He should be there for the formative years and all, but when he dies, at least the way he dies in STM, it not only underlines how frail humans are, but it teaches him that even if there's nothing he can do about certain tragedies, there are others that he CAN prevent. It's the perfect trigger. It's not as defined with Superman, what with all the versions there are of the origin, but for me that's as much a seminal moment as Uncle Ben's death is for Spider-Man.
     
    #631
  7. Midnight Black

    Midnight Black Defender of the Universe

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    I would rather Pa Kent lived or didn't die because of a dumb Tornado. What if he dies at the hands of Zod in this movie since we see the space ships outside of the farm?
     
    #632
  8. ElDuderino

    ElDuderino Well-Known Member

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    We see Martha walking out on the porch by herself when they arrive in the trailer. Pretty sure if Jonathan were alive, he'd be out front with a shotgun in his hand.
     
    #633
  9. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    Pa Kent is one of my favorite characters in the Superman mythos, to be honest. He was the best thing about the Smallville TV show too. That's right, even moreso than Rosenbaum's Luthor.
     
    #634
  10. LibidoLoca

    LibidoLoca Sensually Delicious

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    You... You Monster! :eek:

    ;):p
     
    #635
  11. Midnight Black

    Midnight Black Defender of the Universe

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    It's a trailer though. You can't ever really tell anything from a trailer. Who's to say that Pa Kent wasn't killed earlier or later by Zod or Faora after trying to stand up and protect Clark for whatever reason.

    I just dont see the point in killing Pa Kent. Yes, I'm sure one of you guys will come up with an explanation of how it is vital in Clark becoming Supes blah blah blah, but I still don't like it. I want Pa Kent to live a long life with Ma Kent tending to the Pa and Ma Kent farm.

    However, if he does have to die, I mean absolutely has to then I want him dying heroically and not because of some dumb tornado.
     
    #636
  12. Smallville13

    Smallville13 Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me or did it seem that Loeb really wanted to have Jonathan killed by the tornado the in the first part of For All Seasons, but had to conform to Byrne continuity.
     
    #637
  13. Rust

    Rust First Son Of Yesterday

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    I think I have to agree with this. That it's not cannon and that S:TM introduced that angle. I dont think I like that angle too much either. Sounds like Spider-Man and gives the wrong motivations for Clark becoming Superman.
     
    #638
  14. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    I thought his parents were known to have both deceased in the earlier canon in the comics even before S:TM was released; with the only difference being that it was his mother who passed away first before Pa Kent did.
     
    #639
  15. Rust

    Rust First Son Of Yesterday

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    Dont know the details about them living or dying, but I'm pretty sure Superman's never meant to be having a guilt-trip about it.
     
    #640
  16. herolee10

    herolee10 No More Miracles

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    Oh yeah; no doubt on the guilt part. The only times that I've seen Superman guilty about his parents dying was in S:TM, the Superman Brainiac Story line where Brainiac was responsible for killing Pa Kent, and the Smallville TV Series Story line where Pa Kent's death was a result out of Clark's decisions.
     
    #641
  17. Pfeiffer-Pfan

    Pfeiffer-Pfan Cool Rider

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    I do know that Pa Kent dies in the pilot of the George Reeves show... as I've just watched it.
     
    #642
  18. Dr.

    Dr. Well-Known Member

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    Both Kents are present in the Kirk Alyn serial. But as Clark departs for Metropolis, a voice-over explains that they've passed away.

    I believe this was standard/canon (nothing that STM invented) until John Byrne.
     
    #643
  19. Llama_Shepherd

    Llama_Shepherd Well-Known Member

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    Early Golden Age- Clark Kent raised in orphanage
    Late Golden Age/Silver Age- Kents die of old age
    Post-Crisis- Kents live, until Jonathan dies in Superman: Brainiac
    DCnU- Kents die shortly before the events of Action Comic #1
     
    #644
  20. hopefuldreamer

    hopefuldreamer Clark Kent > Superman

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    I sort of don't mind if JK lives or dies. But I feel like him dying fits more with the tone of this film... I have a hard time seeing Clark moping in Alaska with both his parents alive and well and with no motivation to do so...

    As for it being too much like Spiderman or even Batman, I just don't think it is.

    Spiderman - Uncle Ben dies, teaching Peter that his powers are not just for his own selfish gain, and forcing him to feel the responsibility that comes with such power.

    Batman - The Wayne's die, and it fuels Bruce's life with anger and hatred which he focuses into fighting for justice.

    MOS - Jonathon dies in a tornado while he is off rescuing other people (who may even not be grateful for his rescue, and view him as a freak), and it forces him to face the harsh reality that no matter what he does, he can't save everyone. It takes the events of the story, and a woman like Lois Lane, to convince him it's what he CAN do that matters.

    I think they are very different lessons, all learned through the death of loved ones.
     
    #645
  21. protocida

    protocida Well-Known Member

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    Both Jonathan and Martha died in the original canon. That's what motivated Clark to go to Metropolis, back when he was Kal-L.

    Pushing himself beyond his limits to help innocents into a tornado shelter, saving others at the expense of his own life, is not heroic?
     
    #646
  22. Rust

    Rust First Son Of Yesterday

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    Well, that would make more sense regarding the guilt-trip. Superman WOULD be partially responsible here. A tornado is just a freak accident.
     
    #647
  23. protocida

    protocida Well-Known Member

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    "All-Star Superman" explains better than anyone can.
     
    #648
  24. Rust

    Rust First Son Of Yesterday

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    Ok, I dont mind him having a small guilt-trip (that only makes sense) as long as it doesnt propel him directly into being Superman.

    Yeah, they're all different lessons, but I hope in the end what propels Clark into becoming Superman is Clark. Not guilt, responsibility, Lois or even justice, but because it's just who he is. When all is said and done that is. When the movie is over and all the lines have been crossed, dealt with and wiped out. When Superman is born.
     
    #649
  25. 747

    747 Fanboy rivalry? Yawn.

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    This is from a panel of the great 1973 story of silver age Superman's origin.

    [​IMG]

    And even if Superman doesn't feel that way when it comes to his foster parents. It's still a big part of getting to the character in other conflicts and stories. People say Superman is boring because he is too powerful. Well guess what, even with all his powers he can't save everyone or everything, and that's a great way to show Superman overcome that, it's a part of what makes him tick.

    And it's not so much about guilt (it sure wasn't in STM) but more about coming to that realization and making it a part of your character, it's a huge part of Superman's humbleness imo.
     
    #650
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
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