All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 92

[Herolee10]

I really do think we'll be seeing an early days Batman. That's really when Batman and Superman's conflict was the strongest over the right and wrong way to be a hero.

Batman using more vigilante justice, and Superman being more law and order and being on the side of the government.

And in the end, they both kinda help each other find a balance between those very black and white ways of operating.

Well as long as both learn something valuable from each other and it doesn't come off with one being the greater out of the other, I'd be happy with it.

Hell, if both come to the conclusion that they need to form a league, which leads into the Justice League film, thus them being the two big pillars of the group, then I'd be happy about it as well.

But in the same time, I'm hoping that this film will be more about Superman's story than a Superman AND Batman story.

I'm pretty sure Snyder, or Goyer, said they would have that extra footage on the DVD/Blu Ray when it came out.

But yeah, Snyder almost always has an extended cut for his films, regardless of how much was actually cut.

I personally wouldn't mind for an extended cut, but it sucks to know that snyder basically views the theatrical cut as the director's cut.

 

[SpideyFan866]

'They' still owe us honesty. So if it's the MOS 2 / Superman film that has Batman in it they've mentioned, I hope they stick to that.
If it's a WF film, come out and say it. I wanna know what I'm walking into.

And yes I heard that the 'earthly' MOS cast is returning

Agreed.

However, I really do think this film will be primarily told from the perspective of Superman.

Kinda in the way that TDKR was told primarily from the viewpoint of Batman, but featured Superman in a large and important role.

 

[Herolee10]

Agreed.

However, I really do think this film will be primarily told from the perspective of Superman.

Kinda in the way that TDKR was told primarily from the viewpoint of Batman, but featured Superman in a large and important role.

I still think that it'd be a nice twist if, for the actual live action film, they did the opposite and have Superman be where Millar's Batman was at, ala the right zone, and this new batman being at where Millar's Superman was at.

 

[Eros]

i swear people act like goyer is uwe boll of writing

Blade
Blade II
Dark City
Batman Begins all very solid scripts

and i personally really liked MOS script and i hear very good things about Da Vinci's Demons tv series

people go overboard about goyer

Blade 3 [wrote and directed]
The Unborn [wrote and directed]
Jumper
Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys
The Invisible [directed]
Nick fury:Agent of shield
The Crow: City of Angels

This is why people go overboard lol

 

[Project862006]

oh i am sorry that goyer isn't perfect excuse me

 

[Eros]

oh i am sorry that goyer isn't perfect excuse me

if you saw those movies, you wouldn't joke.......

 

[Bren]

Hopefully the discovery of Batman (the mysterious Gotham vigilante who's turned up in Metropolis) is due to Clark investigating him, and Superman catching Batman in the act of interrogating someone, and confronting him for his overly strong-arm tactics.

Oooowee imagine Batman's retort about "how strong were your tactics when you chose to kill?"

If it's truly MOS 2, then don't show any (or very, VERY little) of Batman's actions unless Superman is actually there.
If it's going to be WF, then sure go ahead, show Batman's 'investigation' too.

 

[Eros]

Hopefully the discovery of Batman (the mysterious Gotham vigilante who's turned up in Metropolis) is due to Clark investigating him, and Superman catching Batman in the act of interrogating someone, and confronting him for his overly strong-arm tactics.

Oooowee imagine Batman's retort about "how strong were your tactics when you chose to kill?"

MOS superman isnt the kind of superman to say that though

 

[SpideyFan866]

if you saw those movies, you wouldn't joke.......

This.

Goyer has great ideas, but he's dangerous when left alone to write and/or direct them.

 

[Eros]

This.

Goyer has great ideas, but he's dangerous when left alone to write and/or direct them.

true dat

 

[Tanin]

if you saw those movies, you wouldn't joke.......

I'd just like to say that The Crow: City of Angels isn't poorly written imo... most of it's backlash is that it has no Brandon Lee in it with bad directing... poor acting... but the story is good.

 

[Bren]

Hopefully the discovery of Batman (the mysterious Gotham vigilante who's turned up in Metropolis) is due to Clark investigating him, and Superman catching Batman in the act of interrogating someone, and confronting him for his overly strong-arm tactics.

Oooowee imagine Batman's retort about "how strong were your tactics when you chose to kill?"

If it's truly MOS 2, then don't show any (or very, VERY little) of Batman's actions unless Superman is actually there.
If it's going to be WF, then sure go ahead, show Batman's 'investigation' too.

MOS superman isnt the kind of superman to say that though

I think he's going to be massively affected by what went down in MOS. I think a) he'll hate the collateral damage he was party to causing, b) hate the idea he never managed a different solution to Zod, c) be saddened that the public have a (natural) distrust and fear of him.

I could easily imagine he'll try ensure he follows as pure a path as possible - Basically become a bit of a boyscout
And that could include admonishing a vigilante who is threatening to drop a suspect/criminal from a building. How's he to know Batman is bluffing?

Yeah I'm starting to get excited - So many (good) ways they can go about this!!!

 

[Eros]

I think he's going to be massively affected by what went down in MOS. I think a) he'll hate the collateral damage he was party to causing, b) hate the idea he never managed a different solution to Zod, c) be saddened that the public have a (natural) distrust and fear of him.

I could easily imagine he'll try ensure he follows as pure a path as possible - Basically become a bit of a boyscout
And that could include admonishing a vigilante who is threatening to drop a suspect/criminal from a building. How's he to know Batman is bluffing?

Yeah I'm starting to get excited - So many (good) ways they can go about this!!!

with snyder and goyer writing, no pure path is out the window.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I'd just like to say that The Crow: City of Angels isn't poorly written imo... most of it's backlash is that it has no Brandon Lee in it with bad directing... poor acting... but the story is good.

And he kinda got screwed over when it came to Blade Trinity. What with Snipes being a jackass and studio interference.

The horror stuff I'll give him, he writes the kind of cheesy horror he likes. It wasn't well-received, but he got what he aimed for. Puppet Master Vs. Demonic Toys was a SyFy movie, he knew what he was doing and had fun with it. Never saw City of Angels or The Invisible. But yeah, Jumper and Nick Fury are awful.

 

[Scarlettess]

Agreed.

However, I really do think this film will be primarily told from the perspective of Superman.

Kinda in the way that TDKR was told primarily from the viewpoint of Batman, but featured Superman in a large and important role.

Agreed, though either way this film isn't going to please all fans, some want it equal billing, which, given that this is implied to be a sequel to MoS is doubtful. I think they'll both play in large the lead roles, but it will be as you said from Superman's perspective. (I could be wrong though and WB could be writing the whole movie from Batman coming in Metropolis POV. :P )

 

[Smallville13]

It would definitely seem that we'd be getting a 'Year One' Batman. I'm not sure how I feel about Superman having a big part in defining his mission.

It's interesting to speculate how they're going to go with it. The TDKR line Snyder used seems to imply that Batman will be antagonistic towards Superman and perhaps take it upon himself to take him down, since the government and Luthor can't.

I can definitely see the size of Batman's role being similar to Superman's in TDKR. But considering Snyder/Goyer's favoritism for Batman, plus it being the starting point for a new Batman franchise, plus the whole MOS2 announcement being around Batman (instead of... y'know, Lex Luthor) I can definitely see Batman being the 'show-stealer' similar to Ledger's Joker who only had something like 20 mins of screentime.

It's just frustrating because Batman isn't part of Superman's family. He isn't integral in Superman's journey (which was far from completed in MOS). It all just reeks of a studio cash grab to stand out in 2015. It's a fanboy move. Something I'd expect from someone on these boards. But not something from a storyteller that's above that and wants to subvert expectations, what good creative does.

 

[Bren]

with snyder and goyer writing, no pure path is out the window.

Oh okay...

Superman: "You know, it might work better if I burn his testicles with my heat vision? He doesn't seem to care about his arm."
Batman: "F%#k off boyo, this is my interrogation!" *snaps the other arm*
Superman: "If at first you don't succeed..."

Better?

 

[Willi Berg]

It would definitely seem that we'd be getting a 'Year One' Batman. I'm not sure how I feel about Superman having a big part in defining his mission.

It's interesting to speculate how they're going to go with it. The TDKR line Snyder used seems to imply that Batman will be antagonistic towards Superman and perhaps take it upon himself to take him down, since the government and Luthor can't.

I can definitely see the size of Batman's role being similar to Superman's in TDKR. But considering Snyder/Goyer's favoritism for Batman, plus it being the starting point for a new Batman franchise, plus the whole MOS2 announcement being around Batman (instead of... y'know, Lex Luthor) I can definitely see Batman being the 'show-stealer' similar to Ledger's Joker who only had something like 20 mins of screentime.

It's just frustrating because Batman isn't part of Superman's family. He isn't integral in Superman's journey (which was far from completed in MOS). It all just reeks of a studio cash grab to stand out in 2015. It's a fanboy move. Something I'd expect from someone on these boards. But not something from a storyteller that's above that and wants to subvert expectations, what good creative does.

As Superman fans, at this point we can only hope that Superman continues to develop and all those big themes that were brought up in MOS come to fruition. I mean, Jor-El went on about Krypton losing the element of choice and chance. That he and Lara hoped Kal made Earth a better place than Krypton, not make the same mistakes. The potential for good, aspiring to greatness. Etc. etc. These are a lot of expectations for Superman. All that can still be explored, with a bit o' Batman thrown in, hopefully.

 

[Willi Berg]

I think he's going to be massively affected by what went down in MOS. I think a) he'll hate the collateral damage he was party to causing, b) hate the idea he never managed a different solution to Zod, c) be saddened that the public have a (natural) distrust and fear of him.

I could easily imagine he'll try ensure he follows as pure a path as possible - Basically become a bit of a boyscout
And that could include admonishing a vigilante who is threatening to drop a suspect/criminal from a building. How's he to know Batman is bluffing?

Yeah I'm starting to get excited - So many (good) ways they can go about this!!!

This idea kind of frightens me. Not that it can't happen in some way. But after all that talk of making Superman relevant, of not being just that...

 

[Bren]

I don't mind the possibility of Superman erring too far on the side of caution based on the events of MOS. It would be reasonable based on his reaction (and my idea of 'Superman'), and that he develops the correct balance at the end of MOS 2. With Batman learning a little compassion in the process.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I think he's going to be massively affected by what went down in MOS. I think a) he'll hate the collateral damage he was party to causing, b) hate the idea he never managed a different solution to Zod, c) be saddened that the public have a (natural) distrust and fear of him.

I could easily imagine he'll try ensure he follows as pure a path as possible - Basically become a bit of a boyscout
And that could include admonishing a vigilante who is threatening to drop a suspect/criminal from a building. How's he to know Batman is bluffing?

Yeah I'm starting to get excited - So many (good) ways they can go about this!!!

Agreed.

And I think Lex is gonna be leading the public charge AGAINST Superman, due to his actions in MOS.

Also, we'll see Batman countering Supes' inevitable criticisms with his own over what went down with Zod.

 

[SpideyFan866]

This idea kind of frightens me. Not that it can't happen in some way. But after all that talk of making Superman relevant, of not being just that...

I think it would be better to see the character develop and learn WHY he can't just be a boyscout, than having him just not be one.

Like or not, that is a significant part of Superman, and its a part that needs to be portrayed, if even for Superman to learn from it.

 

[Willi Berg]

I think it would be better to see the character develop and learn WHY he can't just be a boyscout, than having him just not be one.

Like or not, that is a significant part of Superman, and its a part that needs to be portrayed, if even for Superman to learn from it.

True, and in most portrayals he kind of inevitably veers in that direction anyway. It probably can't be helped and should be addressed.

I don't mind the possibility of Superman erring too far on the side of caution based on the events of MOS. It would be reasonable based on his reaction (and my idea of 'Superman'), and that he develops the correct balance at the end of MOS 2. With Batman learning a little compassion in the process.

That would be good for both. Batman might be very extreme.

 

[Smallville13]

Does anyone have a link to the full video or just a full text transcript of the 75th anniversary panel?

Edit: Found a bit of it. Interesting:

Was Goyer caught off-guard from the backlash over Man of Steel's ending? "To a certain extent, Superman, cinematically, hadn't been reinvented since the Donner films," Goyer says, expressing the need to do something different in their take. "We will be dealing it with the coming film. He's not fully formed in [Man of Steel]. He will have to deal with the repercussions in the next film."

 

[MrMaooz]

Blade 3 [wrote and directed]
The Unborn [wrote and directed]
Jumper
Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys
The Invisible [directed]
Nick fury:Agent of shield
The Crow: City of Angels

This is why people go overboard lol

What the hell kind of movie is that!?!?!?