All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 92

[ConnorKon-El]

At the risk of sounding dismissive and ignorant, I just have to say...if there ever comes a point where a Batman/Superman film goes from possibility to certainty and you aren't having fangasms. Then maybe, just maybe you might want to hand in your geek card and stop overthinking things a little.

It's Batman...and Superman, both are 70+ years old, they have such an immense history in television and cinema outside of their comic books that no one else can match, they are both properties that are red hot right now just like Batman was in the 80's/60's and superman was in the 70's. This alone is bigger than any other superhero team up.

Come on guy...Superman/Batman team up movie.

Well said. I mean I understand the people who are hesitant and are worried because so am I to an extent. But if you can't even get remotely excited by this amazing team up then idk what you can get excited about.

 

[The Question]

At the risk of sounding dismissive and ignorant, I just have to say...if there ever comes a point where a Batman/Superman film goes from possibility to certainty and you aren't having fangasms. Then maybe, just maybe you might want to hand in your geek card and stop overthinking things a little.

It's Batman...and Superman, both are 70+ years old, they have such an immense history in television and cinema outside of their comic books that no one else can match, they are both properties that are red hot right now just like Batman was in the 80's/60's and superman was in the 70's. This alone is bigger than any other superhero team up.

Come on guy...Superman/Batman team up movie.

Well, you are sounding dismissive, so there's that.

What exactly are you criticizing me of? I'd love a World's Finest movie, I just want one that's actually good. And right now I feel there's reason to believe that it won't be good.

You're right, this is bigger than any other super hero team up, which is why I don't want it to be ****ed up right out the gate. Having a World's Finest Film that came out too soon and isn't very good is, in my mind, significantly worse than never getting one at all.

Also, how am I over thinking things?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think this is probably going to be really bad. Man of Steel barely scratched the surface with Superman as a person and his effect on the world. We need a whole other Superman solo film before we get Batman.


Like, okay, yes, a World's Finest movie as the next installment could be good. Sure. But it's just that, from my perspective, my first instinct coming out of Man of Steel for continuing the story and making the best possible sequel would to do another solo film that further explores who he is as a person and how the world reacts to his existence. I feel like for most people that would be their first instinct too. A World's Finest film, on the other hand, feels like the first instinct of someone trying to ride the coattails of The Avengers and recreate their success and quickly as possible. Maybe it's just me, but this feels like it's coming from a place of cynically wanting to make as much money as possible more than it's coming from a place of telling the best possible story. And that rarely leads to good movies.

I can see that fear. But at the same time, I'm just happy that WB isn't trying to push for a JLA film by 2015. A good WF film could actually outline the themes you're talking about quite well. Batman could very well be taking a Lex-Luthor approach, not trusting Clark because of what he is, reinforcing that theme of the human reaction to Superman.

At this point, it's all conjecture, but it really comes down to the script. That's all that held MOS back from being great. They had great actors, great SFX, and a mediocre script.

 

[STARMAN]

The same writer who wrote MOS is writing WF. So...

 

[ConnorKon-El]

I can tell you all, don't be surprised if this gets mixed reviews.
I can't stress enough how much critics loved and adored the Nolan series.
"Zack Snyder's sequel to Man of Steel is a mishmash of unjolting visuals, with an uninteresting story featuring batman, who was portrayed far more heroically and honestly in Nolan's trilogy"
I can already see it.

 

[Tempest]

I think this is probably going to be really bad. Man of Steel barely scratched the surface with Superman as a person and his effect on the world. We need a whole other Superman solo film before we get Batman.


Like, okay, yes, a World's Finest movie as the next installment could be good. Sure. But it's just that, from my perspective, my first instinct coming out of Man of Steel for continuing the story and making the best possible sequel would to do another solo film that further explores who he is as a person and how the world reacts to his existence. I feel like for most people that would be their first instinct too. A World's Finest film, on the other hand, feels like the first instinct of someone trying to ride the coattails of The Avengers and recreate their success and quickly as possible. Maybe it's just me, but this feels like it's coming from a place of cynically wanting to make as much money as possible more than it's coming from a place of telling the best possible story. And that rarely leads to good movies.

If they play things right, the film should be ok.

I could see Batman being suspicious of Superman, and trying to gather info on him, and I could see Clark being suspicious of Bruce Wayne (maybe have Lex Luthor being oh-so-helpful with 'intel' for both men), and then the guys fight things out, realize they're being tricked, and they team up to fight Lex Luthor.

Then the next two films could be Batman and Superman films, maybe with each being in the other's film. I like the idea of Superhero buddies.

Any of you watch How it Should Have Ended? I adore their Superman/Batman cafe scenes.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

Goyer is a great ideas man and a decent screenwriter. He's not amazing though and you need someone absolutely capable of writing multi-memorable lines and story arches. Somehow I hope John Nolan is brought on board but I doubt it.

 

[STARMAN]

If we analyzed every second of MOS as well as all the Batman films. Just imagine us with WF.

 

[The Question]

I can see that fear. But at the same time, I'm just happy that WB isn't trying to push for a JLA film by 2015. A good WF film could actually outline the themes you're talking about quite well. Batman could very well be taking a Lex-Luthor approach, not trusting Clark because of what he is, reinforcing that theme of the human reaction to Superman.

But the problem is both characters are too big. They're about too many things and come with too much baggage to fit into a film together this soon. Batman is this whole other character who they have to explain and make work in a film with Superman and develop and build a plot around it with a central conflict and probably some kind of villain (most likely Lex Luthor, who's another complicated character to boot) on top of that.

I'm not saying a WF film this soon couldn't possible be good, in the hands of a truly talented group of filmmakers it could even be great, but I don't necessarily trust the people involved to handle the task. And it seems way more likely to me that they decided to do it to compete with Marvel's team up movie, and not because they thought it would be the best possible Man of Steel sequel, and going into a film with that mindset generally leads to a shallow cluster**** of ideas.

They might surprise me, but the way they're going about it fills me with enormous skepticism.

You're right, however, it's at least better than a full on JLA movie.

At this point, it's all conjecture, but it really comes down to the script. That's all that held MOS back from being great. They had great actors, great SFX, and a mediocre script.

The direction in Man of Steel was pretty poor as well, to be honest.

 

[The Question]

I can tell you all, don't be surprised if this gets mixed reviews.
I can't stress enough how much critics loved and adored the Nolan series.
"Zack Snyder's sequel to Man of Steel is a mishmash of unjolting visuals, with an uninteresting story featuring batman, who was portrayed far more heroically and honestly in Nolan's trilogy"
I can already see it.

Yeah, they'll probably say that because it will probably be 100% true.

 

[TeeKay]

Nolan is officially on as Exec producer. Yes
That means nolan will allow WB to use his name in promo and trailers while he sits back and cashes his huge check they paid him.

So WB wil be using Nolan's name in promos and trailers just to sell their movie??? That's kinda desperate and goes to show that WB have no faith in their properties if Nolan is not involved.

It's like if Marvel starts using Whedon like that justy to sell their movies, it's kinda cheap and desperate. WB can do better

 

[Mad Love]

So WB wil be using Nolan's name in promos and trailers just to sell their movie??? That's kinda desperate and goes to show that WB have no faith in their properties if Nolan is not involved.

It's like if Marvel starts using Whedon like that justy to sell their movies, it's kinda cheap and desperate. WB can do better

Your negativity sounds desperate

 

[TeeKay]

Your negativity sounds desperate

How do I sound desperate???. Come on bro, Nolan's name was used to sell MOS as well, it was like in every trailer, promo and tv spots I came when I heard news about the World's Finest up until I read Snyder was co-writing the script I'm guessing you're a BID fan of Sucker Punch???

 

[Broseph44]

How do I sound desperate???. Come on bro, Nolan's name was used to sell MOS as well, it was like in every trailer, promo and tv spots I came when I heard news about the World's Finest up until I read Snyder was co-writing the script I'm guessing you're a BID fan of Sucker Punch???

why does it matter if his name is on it? how does that affect you? wouldn't you see the film regardless?

 

[InJustice]

How do I sound desperate???. Come on bro, Nolan's name was used to sell MOS as well, it was like in every trailer, promo and tv spots I came when I heard news about the World's Finest up until I read Snyder was co-writing the script I'm guessing you're a BID fan of Sucker Punch???

To be fair, Zack also has decent works like Watchmen and 300.

 

[TeeKay]

The same writer who wrote MOS is writing WF. So...

took the words right out of my mouth

 

[ConnorKon-El]

Yeah, they'll probably say that because it will probably be 100% true.

Lol stop.
This can go either way. I'm cautiously optimistic. I refuse to let myself get massively excited about this film until I hear more info.
That being said
Simply put, Batman and Superman in the same film ? ****ing cool as ****.

 

[TeeKay]

To be fair, Zack also has decent works like Watchmen and 300.

Yeah but he didn't write the screenplay for watchmen and in 300 he had two other writers helping him with the screen play. Here he will be working with Goyer, who's a hit or miss

 

[BH/HHH]

The same writer who wrote MOS is writing WF. So...

He also wrote Batman Begins, Blade, Blade II and oh yeah co wrote the Dark Knight.

 

[Marvin]

But the problem is both characters are too big. They're about too many things and come with too much baggage to fit into a film together this soon. Batman is this whole other character who they have to explain and make work in a film with Superman and develop and build a plot around it with a central conflict and probably some kind of villain (most likely Lex Luthor, who's another complicated character to boot) on top of that.

um..
This is the oversight people seem to have with MOS as well. Unlike the first jason bourne film, this character and his story(superman that is), is kinda known.

It's like people talking about how ASM didn't cover enough of Spidey's origin(while moaning at the retread).
How much explaining do you seriously think WB needs to do with batman at this point, seriously? I suppose they should start with the night his parents were gunned down and work from there...

long story short, just look to how much time Whedon put into explaining each of the avengers, namely Banner.

 

[The Question]

To be fair, Zack also has decent works like Watchmen and 300.

Define decent. 300 really only had cool fight scenes going for it and I really didn't care for Watchmen at all.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

Define decent. 300 really only had cool fight scenes going for it and I really didn't care for Watchmen at all.

I really liked both films.
Amazing ? No
Good ? Yes, particularly the director's cut of Watchmen.

 

[Tempest]

um..
This is the oversight people seem to have with MOS as well. Unlike the first jason bourne film, this character and his story(superman that is), is kinda known.

It's like people talking about how ASM didn't cover enough of Spidey's origin(while moaning at a the retread).
How much explaining do you seriously think WB needs to do with batman at this point, seriously? I suppose they should start with the night his parents were gunned down and work from there...

Pretty much.

I mean, maybe they could explore Batman in a future film. But it makes sense to do things this way if they want to get going on a JL film. By introducing Batman now, they can start opening up the universe to other characters with subsequent films.

 

[ConnorKon-El]

It think that a stand alone Batman film would be released after MOS2/Finest and JLA, probably pulling a steel route and giving us flashbacks into Bruce's life but not really being a full on origin film either.

 

[The Question]

um..
This is the oversight people seem to have with MOS as well. Unlike the first jason bourne film, this character and his story(superman that is), is kinda known.

It's like people talking about how ASM didn't cover enough of Spidey's origin(while moaning at the retread).
How much explaining do you seriously think WB needs to do with batman at this point, seriously? I suppose they should start with the night his parents were gunned down and work from there...

long story short, just look to how much time Whedon put into explaining each of the avengers, namely Banner.

Every version of a character is different. Every new actor and director and writer's take on the character is different. We need to establish them to an extent. And The Avengers spend a lot of time establishing the characters, especially Banner and Black Widow.