All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 94

[Kryptonian Titan]

So, the next movie will also named as ''Man of Steel''... That means it's ''not a sequel'' to MoS?

 

[charl_huntress]

The questions I have regarding MOS is how much time passed before CK went to work the DP, and did Lois know he was coming? It seems like everything and everyone is back to normal, but I would imagine a lot of time would have had to pass for that to be the case. The novelization makes it seems like she had no idea, but the movie is not so clear. I hope there are some comics or something that clarify this before the next movie.

 

[sf2]

I'm trying to remember... how did the military get clarks ship? I'm assuming clark took it to them right? As far as that ship that showed up in front of the kent home you said they tracked that ship? I don't remember that, but if that's so then dang...whats the point of having a secret identity? haha.

In reality, It's impossible the US government didn't know. they have spy cams everywhere around the globe!!!

Btw, the secret identity is for the people around him mostly.

 

[GeoMFilms]

In reality, It's impossible the US government didn't know. they have spy cams everywhere around the globe!!!

Btw, the secret identity is for the people around him mostly.

yeah. As technology advances its gets harder to make something like a secret identity seem possible. Realistically it should of been easier to figure out who Batman is. After all wouldn't like 100 people who worked on making those bat cars and bat plane recognize the vehicles that they've been working on?


Side thought...... would anyone else have liked it if Supermans back was towards the military in that scene when Superman is in the air and the military sees him for the first time?

After all Clark had to hide his face/powers his whole life. For the first time he's going to be openly having his face shown while using his powers.

I would of liked it if Supermans back was towards the military and they see this flapping cape and wondering what this 'alien' looks like. Then we see the camera up close to Supermans face... he takes a deep breath because he know from here on out things will never be the same for him.

Just a thought.

 

[MrMaooz]

Random question: how would you consider Man of Steel from what is driving the movie? In other words, would you consider it a plot driven movie, character-driven, action-driven, or something else?

It's weird, because Man of Steel in the end is a popcorn movie but salted.

 

[Smashlilman]

Random question: how would you consider Man of Steel from what is driving the movie? In other words, would you consider it a plot driven movie, character-driven, action-driven, or something else?

A plot driven movie with a heavy action Pay off.

 

[def28]

Just watched for a second time and Im gonna change my stance on this flick a bit. Enjoyed it alot the second time.

 

[NotSoGreatScott]

^I think one reason people have problems with Man of Steel is due to preconceptions of the character. I'm not surprised you enjoyed it the second go around as you watched it with less hang ups and therefore where more excepting of the changes made too the character.

 

[def28]

Definitely. Honestly the MOS trailer was one of the best I've seen and I think I expected way too much from it. I still have issues, but overall I really enjoyed it on the second viewing.

...and man Faora kicks ass. Love that chick.

 

[Smashlilman]

This I agree with. I am not sure what he believes in at this point, and Jor-El's speech about bridging worlds. Then in add the codex and it's all confusing to me why Superman is even on earth, and I mean that. Did Jor-El send him here to be a god among men? Not sure really.

Yes, I agree it's a bit confusing. Though to be fair, he did just put the suit on like 2 weeks ago in the movie, so maybe HE isn't sure what he believes yet.

From what i gather. Jor-El sent Kal-El to earth to repopulate earth with naturally birthed Krytonian babies via earth women. He hoped that Kal and his children could share earth with the Native earth inhabitants.

 

[The Sage]

Random question: how would you consider Man of Steel from what is driving the movie? In other words, would you consider it a plot driven movie, character-driven, action-driven, or something else?

Character and plot driven, IMO.

 

[Amadeus Arkham]

My question is how did Jor-El know that Kal-El would be a "god to them" on Earth? Did the scout ship send back a report 20,000 years ago that Kryptonians acquired superpowers on Earth? And how did they narrow it down to being yellow solar radiation that does the trick?

 

[roach]

My question is how did Jor-El know that Kal-El would be a "god to them" on Earth? Did the scout ship send back a report 20,000 years ago that Kryptonians acquired superpowers on Earth? And how did they narrow it down to being yellow solar radiation that does the trick?

I imagine this was not a spur of the moment thing for Jor-el and he had been planning this for some time. If there was a scout ship sent to Earth he could have known about the powers thing. I imagine of the vastness of space they have encountered yellow solar radiation before.

 

[charl_huntress]

From what i gather. Jor-El sent Kal-El to earth to repopulate earth with naturally birthed Krytonian babies via earth women. He hoped that Kal and his children could share earth with the Native earth inhabitants.

Thank you for answering that. I kind of took that, but then I thought naw...it can't be. Like that would be too easy and it's something I want, so it can't be. t:

 

[Binker]

That happens to be a criticism of mine with MOS: they never explain the Codex and why Kal had it in him. Sure, there is speculation and even Russell Crowe's comments, but those are not in the movie; those things HAVE to be in the movie. Not only that, you have to add in the fact that if Jor-El planned for his son to do that, doesn't that contradict what he wanted his son to have: choices, freedom, his own destiny? Plus, that and having powers; what was the full picture of that? The Codex is a flawed plot hole of MOS.

 

[roach]

That happens to be a criticism of mine with MOS: they never explain the Codex and why Kal had it in him. Sure, there is speculation and even Russell Crowe's comments, but those are not in the movie; those things HAVE to be in the movie. Not only that, you have to add in the fact that if Jor-El planned for his son to do that, doesn't that contradict what he wanted his son to have: choices, freedom, his own destiny? Plus, that and having powers; what was the full picture of that? The Codex is a flawed plot hole of MOS.

It's never explained but there's enough there to infer what it is. Kal was to come to Earth and make a new Kryptonian race mated with human. With the codex inside Kal…he'd be able to pass on the full kryptonian genetic destiny to humanity. While he had plans for his son, Kal would still have a lot more freedom on Earth than on Krypton…all he would have to do is mate with a human and bear children.

 

[charl_huntress]

That happens to be a criticism of mine with MOS: they never explain the Codex and why Kal had it in him. Sure, there is speculation and even Russell Crowe's comments, but those are not in the movie; those things HAVE to be in the movie. Not only that, you have to add in the fact that if Jor-El planned for his son to do that, doesn't that contradict what he wanted his son to have: choices, freedom, his own destiny? Plus, that and having powers; what was the full picture of that? The Codex is a flawed plot hole of MOS.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks that. It's really confusing to me. Along with a many other things...lol

It's never explained but there's enough there to infer what it is. Kal was to come to Earth and make a new Kryptonian race mated with human. With the codex inside Kal…he'd be able to pass on the full kryptonian genetic destiny to humanity. While he had plans for his son, Kal would still have a lot more freedom on Earth than on Krypton…all he would have to do is mate with a human and bear children.

I like it and that's what I inferred as well, but again because I actually want that I'm inclined to doubt it. t:

 

[roach]

I prefer when movies don't explain everything or put it this way: I prefer when movies show rather than tell. MOS showed us why the codex was important rather than tell us.

 

[Binker]

It's never explained but there's enough there to infer what it is. Kal was to come to Earth and make a new Kryptonian race mated with human. With the codex inside Kal…he'd be able to pass on the full kryptonian genetic destiny to humanity. While he had plans for his son, Kal would still have a lot more freedom on Earth than on Krypton…all he would have to do is mate with a human and bear children.

True, and his powers on Earth was something Jor-El knew from the beginning when the planet was picked, and he said "he'll be a God to them", as well as later with the Jor-El AI who mentioned Clark to inspire and lead the people of Earth.

I guess it was explained, but I also guess it was just too subtly and answers only found outside of the film itself, that made me confused and therefore thought of it as flawed.

I still have another criticized flaw from the movie that is a critical error, maybe a plot hole too, and that is the entire death of Pa Kent flashback.

 

[Batmannerism]

Loved MOS, like the man said plot (and character) driven with a heavy action pay off.

Anyway, the codex is still a bit of a mystery. I think, IMO, that Jor El would have known about the scoutship, and the genesis chamber it contained.
With that chamber Kal could have re-started his race, and that's what I think the last conversation Kal has with Jor El's AI, aboard Zod's ship was actually about.....although that seems to contradict Jor El's point in having Kal born naturally.

Maybe by giving him the genetic code of all those Kryptonians he was indeed hoping Kal would mate with humans and re-start Krypton that way ?

Really, who knows, Jor El was the greatest mind of an advanced civilization, in a story written by David Goyer, so really your guess is as good as mine.

I'm not sure it's a plot hole, it's more of a plot annoyance.

A plot hole would be if the main character was completely incidental to the entire story (like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, oops !) which would have had the same result whether he existed or not.

Or flying a nuclear bomb out to sea, and ejecting with 5 seconds left and making it to safety (off camera) is a bit of a plot hole.

Really though, if we like the film enough, as an audience we get past that.
(like flying around the world really fast doesn't turn back time, and even if it did, all the damage the missiles did would still occur...sorry Superman the Movie !).

Anyway, maybe the codex will get more time next film (although I doubt it) really I think it was a motivation to get Zod to come to Earth -although after the destruction of Krypton, you'd think he'd be curious enough when the scoutship beacon went off, that he'd show up anyway.

Doesn't matter, still loved MOS, so I can get past all that

 

[Herolee10]

The only thing that I really didn't get is how was Jor-el expecting that Clark would end up finding the ancient scout ship, let alone the fact that there was one on Earth?

If Clark hadn't overheard the Canadian troops at the bar talking about it, then he wouldn't have found it to begin with, and thus Jor-el's AI would have never gotten a chance to interact with Clark.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'd say that Jor-el was counting on Kal-el being at least somewhat intelligent (by human standards) as well as having a good baseline as to the extant of what Clark could be capable of. If out of curiousness if nothing else, Jor-el figured Clark would at some point go searching the planet for clues as to his origin. Given the sensory powers, Jor-el figured even if the scoutship were hidden from site then his son would still have the tools to find it. Let's keep in mind that I think that Jor-el knew that he was playing cosmic level dice with the fate of his son. Even Crowe said there was "a touch of madness" in Jor-el. He was the most capable scientist on his world but he was faced with both apathy from the ruling body of Krypton AND his knowledge of it's destruction.

 

[sf2]

Definitely. Honestly the MOS trailer was one of the best I've seen and I think I expected way too much from it. I still have issues, but overall I really enjoyed it on the second viewing.

...and man Faora kicks ass. Love that chick.

Sure she did. It would be cooler if she smashed the concrete block during her 1st encounter with the military / her demand for lois.

 

[Batmannerism]

I'd say that Jor-el was counting on Kal-el being at least somewhat intelligent (by human standards) as well as having a good baseline as to the extant of what Clark could be capable of. If out of curiousness if nothing else, Jor-el figured Clark would at some point go searching the planet for clues as to his origin. Given the sensory powers, Jor-el figured even if the scoutship were hidden from site then his son would still have the tools to find it. Let's keep in mind that I think that Jor-el knew that he was playing cosmic level dice with the fate of his son. Even Crowe said there was "a touch of madness" in Jor-el. He was the most capable scientist on his world but he was faced with both apathy from the ruling body of Krypton AND his knowledge of it's destruction.

Agreed, good point about the "cosmic dice" !


Although I'd characterize it as desperation, rather than strictly madness -which is what gives him the strength to fight of Zod's goons, and then Zod, nothing could prevent him from sending his son to safety.

Also, I think it's safe to say that Jor -El would have known the scoutship was there, on Earth. Again, counting on Clark, upon reaching maturity, to go looking for clues. Remember in SMTM, for some reason Clark was drawn to go north. Who knows, maybe a similar subconscious instinct was present. Maybe he could detect the ship's presence on an unconscious level.....okay, now the conjecture's getting pretty wild, but this is Superman, so really, not too wild.

 

[Herolee10]

Honestly, I just love the fact that Snyder and Company really enriched the mythology surrounding Krypton.

From it's class systems, to the structure of its cities, and of course my biggest favorite, their costumes and armor.

Seriously, after being given nearly 40 years of Krypton where it's just all ice and crystals, with Jor-el always wearing the same white suit and Black S (S:TM, Superboy Series, L&C, Smallville), I'm glad we got to see Jor-el and company wear something different and kickass for once.