All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

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Thor in the MCU is more a "god" than what WW was represented as.:o

I don't know. Wonder Woman has super strength, super speed, force projection and defensive measures, the ability to harness and project lightning and apparently almost-fly, all without holding a mystical hammer that is in fact alien high technology.

I think she beats him in the God/Not Goddess question...:cwink:
 
I mean it's not like Doomsday took to the skies and left her on the ground. There was never a moment in that fight where I thought, "darn, if only she could fly." She had no trouble keeping up with him as is. And the inconsistencies in the dialogue from BvS just kinda re-enforces my point that they aren't sticking to that like gospel, imo.

And I don't know why you'd be [blackout]ok accepting those other abilities but not flight.[/blackout] Makes no sense to me whatsoever. The whole thing is obviously open to interpretation though, so to each their own.

People seem to think my position is that I don't want her to fly or some such. I'm saying that outside of the fight with Ares she isn't show to fly.
Not in BvS, there's no indication before on the island, and not after the fight with Ares where she jumps after hearing the explosion. That's not even getting into the idea that she can non physically manipulate matter. The WW we will be seeing in JL, just as in BvS has had a century to hone those powers in some fashion. It's odd that she won't use them. That's what I am saying.
This isn't about being pro or against her having the power. If I had my druthers she would have BOTH the power of flight and the jet. That's right I would have Diana rock both. It's more that I don't see the evidence in the films we have along with the trailers for JL that she's flying anywhere.
And let's be honest... If she was being presented as having full on powered flight all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion. It would be obvious and non-ambiguous.
 
Her leaping around like the Hulk while the parademons are flying around her will not be a good look. All they would have to do is hover above her and move out of the way if you want to think she can only fly and levitate with a certain someone around. It will look ridiculous. She shouldn't be underpowered for any reason and I think the only reason it is debatable for some because of budget issues for them to portray sustained flight plus they wanted to showcase different things and build her up for future movies.
 
Isn't there a pretty powerful block and force blast combo from WW in the doomsday fight?

That's not too dissimilar to what happened with Ares.

As compared to Thor, one interesting difference is that they really didn't go with the "advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" vibe of the Thor films.

I guess that hasn't really been a big part of the WW mythos, the way it was with Thor in the Kirby era.
 
It's a movie about a woman discovering her true power, [blackout]which she doesn't do until the end (that fight). So yeah, if she were full-powered flying throughout the film it would be non-ambiguous, but it also wouldn't be in line with her arc in the movie. I think it's perfectly clear she has the ability to fly based on what I saw.[/blackout] But whether or not she can or does regularly tap into that ability is what's still debatable, imo.

Also, it's possible the bracelets are restraining her power, as seen in some comics, where she can actually power up when they're removed. Like Patty said, the full extent of her power is to be explored in the sequels. This was only the beginning.
 
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wait so she wasn't flying at the end? That's one hell of a hang time lol.

I don't think her telekinetic attacks should have been used in BvS,
Doomstay just absorbs it. If I think that's what people were talking about.

And invisible jet would be great, they could just make it a single tiny vehicle
honda-micro-e-mobile.jpg


"hey Bruce, just gonna park my jet on top of your batmobil"
 
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As I recall, Batman is shown being a bit jealous of the jet on a couple of occasions in the comics, as it is a cool gadget along the lines of the stuff he likes to use.

Something I found interesting was in the storyboards for the ending when they show her jump off the building she dives straight down but in the movie she seems to float up.

I think it's because the very strong suggestion of flight (at least) in that scene is more in line with the story arc that her powers have evolved over the course of the movie.

The film leaves room for certain things to be developed further, but I thought the general vibe was clear enough.
 
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I see no need for the jet, but I'm not really against its inclusion, either. They could make it work if so inclined.
 
Something I found interesting was in the storyboards for the ending when they show her jump off the building she dives straight down but in the movie she seems to float up.

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/06/06/wonder-woman-ending/

PUPOuwV.jpg

That looks pretty sweet. I think seeing her plummeting down maybe with a little smile on her face, the building rushing upward behind her, would have been more dramatic.

Still, I do like how the movie ended, as that is very much like a comic book hero cover, WW leaping across the city into action.
 
For an international super hero an ultimate stealth, vertical take off and landing aircraft would be incredibly valuable. Plus, I like to think of it as not just transportation for herself and other but as her mobile base of operations which has all the various weapons, armors, magical talismans and items and other flotsam she would need to battle injustice and protect the world.
 
That looks pretty sweet. I think seeing her plummeting down maybe with a little smile on her face, the building rushing upward behind her, would have been more dramatic.

Still, I do like how the movie ended, as that is very much like a comic book hero cover, WW leaping across the city into action.

I think it would have looked too similar to Hancock's ending.
 
For an international super hero an ultimate stealth, vertical take off and landing aircraft would be incredibly valuable. Plus, I like to think of it as not just transportation for herself and other but as her mobile base of operations which has all the various weapons, armors, magical talismans and items and other flotsam she would need to battle injustice and protect the world.

Yeah, like a mobile bat cave, in a sense.

I think it could work. Diana's modern persona comes across as quite sophisticated. Working at the Louvre, apparently. Speaking many languages.

The jet could be a part of that.
 
Yeah, like a mobile bat cave, in a sense.

I think it could work. Diana's modern persona comes across as quite sophisticated. Working at the Louvre, apparently. Speaking many languages.

The jet could be a part of that.

The jet suffers from the same stigma as Aquaman had from the SF show, only combined with people's perceptions from the Carter show. Which... I don't get. Do people really think that in today's world of film the jet would look like a pencil outline or a toy with a doll in it?
 
There's probably some leftover stigma there.

But I think it just needs the right update.

I don't see it as essential, of course, but I'm open to the idea.
 
Any invisible jet is more or less going to be some type of stealth technology. I think that's pretty much a given at this point. And given the timeline between WW and BvS/JL that's more than enough time for Diana to have gotten some type of pilots licence to explain how she knows how to fly a plane. But if she flies, and I'm still not 100% sure that's been defined yet, then the jet is useless.
 
Any invisible jet is more or less going to be some type of stealth technology. I think that's pretty much a given at this point. And given the timeline between WW and BvS/JL that's more than enough time for Diana to have gotten some type of pilots licence to explain how she knows how to fly a plane. But if she flies, and I'm still not 100% sure that's been defined yet, then the jet is useless.

As mentioned the jet can be about more than just personal transport. It can be a a mobile base. It can be used to travel in space or underwater if a creator wanted to do so. Diana can use it to transport other people in greater numbers than just her carrying them in her arms or the like. It's stealth capabilities open many story possibilities Even with flight WW could benefit from having the jet at her disposal.
 
The only issue is where she gets it from. The obvious answer is Bruce but I feel him being the one responsible for everyone's tech is gonna get old pretty quick.
 
The only issue is where she gets it from. The obvious answer is Bruce but I feel him being the one responsible for everyone's tech is gonna get old pretty quick.

There's lots of way to explain the jet that doesn't rely on Bruce Wayne. We honestly only got a small glimpse of the Island so who knows what's going on there besides combat training? We have the gods to consider, hell in the comics during the early 2000's the jet had a extraterrestrial origin if I am remembering it right.
 
Any invisible jet is more or less going to be some type of stealth technology. I think that's pretty much a given at this point. And given the timeline between WW and BvS/JL that's more than enough time for Diana to have gotten some type of pilots licence to explain how she knows how to fly a plane. But if she flies, and I'm still not 100% sure that's been defined yet, then the jet is useless.

I don't think it's useless. In the comics, there were many Avengers who could fly (Iron Man, Thor, Vision, Ms Marvel etc) yet they all travelled around in the Quinjet. Not sure how big they are in the movies to accommodate so many passengers, but in Agents of SHIELD they have the Zephyr One which can cloak and decloak, rendering it invisible.

WW could fly, but what if she has to rescue a mass of people? She wouldn't be able to hold them all and she's not fast enough like the Flash to go in and pull them out all one by one. A jet would come in useful for rescue missions. It would also come in useful for transporting around other members of the Justice League. Yes, Superman could fly too, but what if they actually want to be going over strategies and plans? With WW or Superman flying off somewhere else, they can't exactly sit in on the discussions. It wouldn't be the same just wearing an earpiece either, especially if they have to look at visual information.

And if the League are going on a secret mission, then they don't want to be flying in detected, which both WW and Superman would be if they're not cloaked by an invisible shield. They might all want to get into position covertly so they can retain the element of surprise and appear at the appropriate time.

The jet suffers from the same stigma as Aquaman had from the SF show, only combined with people's perceptions from the Carter show. Which... I don't get. Do people really think that in today's world of film the jet would look like a pencil outline or a toy with a doll in it?

This. I think this is similar to before Batman 89 came out. People probably still were influenced by the 60s Batman show and also thought many things could be hokey. People don't think that now about Batman. With WW, all it would take would be one movie to change people's perceptions of the invisible jet. As mentioned, it's been done in many other films or TV shows already such as Star Trek (with the Romulan bird of prey) or Agents of SHIELD with the Zephyr One. None of these seem ridiculous at all and no-one even thinks of the invisible plane from Lynda Carter's TV show.

The only issue is where she gets it from. The obvious answer is Bruce but I feel him being the one responsible for everyone's tech is gonna get old pretty quick.

I don't think she needs to get it from Bruce, although he would be the obvious one. But if WW is on a mission to steal a stealth plane from an enemy (they could be anyone - not necessarily even a superpowered enemy but someone like the Russians) then if she already can pilot a plane, she could take it at the end of the movie.

Then, while being chased by enemy combatants, she could be playing around with the controls and find the cloaking button which would turn the plane invisible. But what could happen is that, while evading some of the pursuing planes, she might discover that one of them is still able to detect her because that too has the ability to either track a heat signature or can bypass the cloaking technology. So maybe the plane fires upon her and damages the cloak so that she discovers, when she finally gets away and lands, that the plane is no longer able to decloak but is stuck in cloaked mode. This would give her the invisible plane in a plausible way that audiences could buy into, because they've seen the process by which it happened. It wouldn't seem that she just had an invisible plane out of nowhere.
 
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The only issue is where she gets it from. The obvious answer is Bruce but I feel him being the one responsible for everyone's tech is gonna get old pretty quick.

It probably won't work, but I'd like to see Diana return to Themyscira to discover that the Amazons scavenged from the wreck of Steve's plane and the German boat which hit the shore / rocks and started on reverse engineering and improving that technology. And that resulted in a unique plane, with mystical properties, including invisibility.

It's a little far fetched, because I'm not sure when we'll see Diana return home. And taking a WW1 plane and further developing that into a jet seems like it may be a stretch for the Amazons who didn't seem to have much in the way of technology at all. But, the breach of the barrier, Diana's mission, etc may have prompted them to learn more about man's world so that they could respond to any future threats and, in doing so, they sought to keep up with and advance beyond the technological developments in the world.

Or ... Diana scavengers some kind of parademon transport and adapts it for her own purposes following Justice League? Or Diana has a mystical adventure to another world / on another planet and obtains the plane there?
 
...but what if she has to rescue a mass of people? She wouldn't be able to hold them all and she's not fast enough like the Flash to go in and pull them out all one by one. A jet would come in useful for rescue missions. It would also come in useful for transporting around other members of the Justice League.

As has been noted, there are a lot of uncanny coincidences in fiction. :cwink: (Via TV Tropes, see Plot Tailored to the Party and This Looks Like a Job for Aquaman.) So, sure, you could conjure a high-altitude peril wherein it would be really handy if WW were a skilled pilot with her own stealth jet. But why bother? Why not, instead, just craft a different peril that allows WW’s more traditional/iconic skills (strength, bracers, lasso, etc.) to shine?

As far as a “plausible” origin for an invisible jet… I suppose you could establish Themyscira as a peculiar hybrid society - part pastoral (goat milking, etc.), part high-tech (stealth-jet engineering, etc.). But the movie version of Themyscira doesn’t appear to be such a hybrid.
 
The only issue is where she gets it from. The obvious answer is Bruce but I feel him being the one responsible for everyone's tech is gonna get old pretty quick.

You're forgetting there's Cyborg.
 
I see no need for the jet, but I'm not really against its inclusion, either. They could make it work if so inclined.

Save that for a Justice League movie. It just seems silly and fan servicing enough that it would do well there. But I want Patty to stay focused on building the character and mythology of the Amazons, and the conflict Wonder Woman will see for women in mankind's patriarchy now that she isn't fighting a war. There is a lot to do in a sequel, and the invisible jet... leave that for whoever takes over from Zack on Justice League 2.
 
You're forgetting there's Cyborg.


Diana's clearly been doing some interesting things in her spare time over the years.

Even in BvS there is a line about how she has fought beings from other worlds before, I believe.

So I don't think it would come from Batman or Cyborg, but rather would be linked to some adventure or journey in Diana's past. At least, that's the idea that comes to mind.

But anyway. It's a minor thing, really.
 
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