All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Flemm]

Still can't believe that Armond White's reviews actually count towards RT.

Maybe it's worth keeping him around, just for moments like these

 

[FunkMiller]

Look I'm a woman who loves seeing strong women in movies, I also hold a special spot for Wonder Woman in my heart because of what she represents to me...but too much these days when we see a female warrior on film they either sexualize her too much "oh hot chick in spandex, etc', or they spend too much time TELLING and not SHOWING ex: "look at me I'm a tough chick who can take down twenty men singlehandedly while wearing heels!" etc.

What I loved about this film was that they SHOWED us Diana was a bad*** warrior without trying to cram any sort of "LOOK we're making a Female Superhero Film!" down our throats. Really the subject of Diana being a woman who can fight was never really brought up in the movie, I was waiting for the proverbial "but she's a woman and look how she kicks butt!" line to drop and it never really did, other then a brief joke, (I'm both frightened and aroused" LOL) she really was treated no differently then if she were a male lead in a action film...and I loved that.

THAT'S the type of thing I want to see more of in the future with female action heroes. Stop playing up the fact that they are female, and just tell their story like you would if they were male heroes, etc.

Just my two cents.

And it's a good two cents! Not once in that entire movie, not ****ing once, did they sexualise Wonder Woman for the benefit of the male audience. No lingering butt or legs shots, no presentation of her armour as anything other than a practical thing, no attempts to have anything mansplained to her. She is never presented as anything other than the hero and the star of this movie. Wonderful (pun intended)

 

[Dark Raven]

And it's a good two cents! Not once in that entire movie, not ****ing once, did they sexualise Wonder Woman for the benefit of the male audience. No lingering butt or legs shots, no presentation of her armour as anything other than a practical thing, no attempts to have anything mansplained to her. She is never presented as anything other than the hero and the star of this movie. Wonderful (pun intended)

Which is the exact opposite of Joss Whedon's WW script where ALL of that happens. I think that would've had a ton of criticism if it had been made (it already is even only in script form) and would've sunk the movie and any hope of female superhero films and turned WW into an outdated icon whom people would think can't work on film. I am not keen on him tackling Batgirl. Wouldn't it be better to capitalise on this wave of success that DC/WB have been enjoying and hire a female director for that one too?

 

[Flemm]

And it's a good two cents! Not once in that entire movie, not ****ing once, did they sexualise Wonder Woman for the benefit of the male audience. No lingering butt or legs shots, no presentation of her armour as anything other than a practical thing, no attempts to have anything mansplained to her. She is never presented as anything other than the hero and the star of this movie. Wonderful (pun intended)

In passing, I thought the scene with Diana trying on various outfits to "blend in" better was an elegant way of underlining the relative nature of our judgments about clothing and other aspects of appearance.

That scene made it clear that the conventions related to clothing in London didn't really make any more sense than WW's traditional outfit, or a lot of our own choices in the modern world (by extension).

The film is very clever on these topics, I think.

 

[FunkMiller]

Which is the exact opposite of Joss Whedon's WW script where ALL of that happens. I think that would've had a ton of criticism if it had been made (it already is even only in script form) and would've sunk the movie and any hope of female superhero films and turned WW into an outdated icon whom people would think can't work on film. I am not keen on him tackling Batgirl. Wouldn't it be better to capitalise on this wave of success that DC/WB have been enjoying and hire a female director for that one too?

Yes. Absolutely it would have. In fact, in an ideal world, Whedon will move over to JL movies and a female director can take on Batgirl. Given Whedon did Buffy, I'm amazed at how awful that script truly was.

 

[Flemm]

I guess Ares can be said to "mansplain" a bit, but we know what happened to him lol.

 

[Dark Raven]

I guess Ares can be said to "mansplain" a bit, but we know what happened to him lol.

He thought he was on a higher spiritual 'splain.

 

[Mike5575]

Which is the exact opposite of Joss Whedon's WW script where ALL of that happens. I think that would've had a ton of criticism if it had been made (it already is even only in script form) and would've sunk the movie and any hope of female superhero films and turned WW into an outdated icon whom people would think can't work on film. I am not keen on him tackling Batgirl. Wouldn't it be better to capitalise on this wave of success that DC/WB have been enjoying and hire a female director for that one too?

I really wish Joss Whedon would go away.

 

[ianyoungko]

I own a podcast called SuperNerds UK and we did an indepth review of Wonder Woman, spoilers... we loved it https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/supernerds-uk/id1017040090?mt=2&i=1000388986142

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I would love to see Chief show back up in present day. And Diana's not even surprised.

The first time I recall seeing an American Indian superhero was in DOFP. I would be all for Chief's return because I would like to see some non white or black superheroes have more status in CBMs. I always thought. XMEN would be the leaders in this but I'm not too sure.

 

[Silly Cat]

Originally posted by m1ll3r
And it's a good two cents! Not once in that entire movie, not ****ing once, did they sexualise Wonder Woman for the benefit of the male audience. No lingering butt or legs shots, no presentation of her armour as anything other than a practical thing, no attempts to have anything mansplained to her. She is never presented as anything other than the hero and the star of this movie. Wonderful (pun intended)

Yes! I just found this movie to be such a breath of fresh air, finally an action film that treats the female lead no differently then if she were a male lead! Wonder Woman can be sexy without the camera having to focus on her butt or boobs, etc.

I also really liked how they didn't dumb down Steve Trevor to prop up Diana. That's another thing I find annoying these days is if filmmakers want to showcase a 'strong woman' they immediately start emasculating the male costar and making him the butt of jokes. Not this time, Steve was shown to be capable and heroic in his own right, him and Diana were shown to be true equals, well maybe not in fighting ability (cause she's an Amazon warrior, duh) but in strength of character.

Just goes to show you, you can have a strong and heroic male 'love interest' without sacrificing the strength of the female hero...take notes studios!

 

[Flemm]

"I can save today, you can save the world." is a *very* romantic line, in the sense of heartfelt and grandiose.

I think it's one of the most Casablanca-ish moments, because it's about a guy (Rick in Casablanca or Steve in Wonder Woman) deciding to sacrifice his own happiness for the greater good.

But with Diana being more directly the hero than Ilsa in Casablanca (who ends up leaving with Laszlo to support and inspire him in his humanitarian work).

 

[kguillou]

Yes! I just found this movie to be such a breath of fresh air, finally an action film that treats the female lead no differently then if she were a male lead! Wonder Woman can be sexy without the camera having to focus on her butt or boobs, etc.

I also really liked how they didn't dumb down Steve Trevor to prop up Diana. That's another thing I find annoying these days is if filmmakers want to showcase a 'strong woman' they immediately start emasculating the male costar and making him the butt of jokes. Not this time, Steve was shown to be capable and heroic in his own right, him and Diana were shown to be true equals, well maybe not in fighting ability (cause she's an Amazon warrior, duh) but in strength of character.

Just goes to show you, you can have a strong and heroic male 'love interest' without sacrificing the strength of the female hero...take notes studios!

It's also nice how go for obvious sex jokes either on Steve's end like in the 2009 WW movie. Now, don't get me wrong, I actually thought those sex jokes were funny and worked for that movie but I think that would've rubbed a tonnn of people the wrong way if Steve started saying stuff like "your daughter has a nice rack" while roped with the lasso of truth.

 

[FunkMiller]

It's also nice how go for obvious sex jokes either on Steve's end like in the 2009 WW movie. Now, don't get me wrong, I actually thought those sex jokes were funny and worked for that movie but I think that would've rubbed a tonnn of people the wrong way if Steve started saying stuff like "your daughter has a nice rack" while roped with the lasso of truth.

The handling of Steve's character is almost as important as the way Diana was portrayed. This film teaches the lesson that you don't make a woman look strong by making a man look weak. You portray both as strong, but with her being the strongest.

I even loved his 'above average' line. How many times have you ever seen a character in a mainstream Hollywood blockbuster admit something like that? In most, the fact that only beautiful people populate the world is a given (Fast and Furious for example). The acknowledgement of Pine's attractiveness was a breath of fresh air.

This movie really does get better the more you think about it.

...that moustache is never going to look good though t:

 

[Dark Raven]

It's also nice how go for obvious sex jokes either on Steve's end like in the 2009 WW movie. Now, don't get me wrong, I actually thought those sex jokes were funny and worked for that movie but I think that would've rubbed a tonnn of people the wrong way if Steve started saying stuff like "your daughter has a nice rack" while roped with the lasso of truth.

The portrayal of Stever Trevor in the 2009 animated movie was terrible. First off, he seemed just like Richard Castle, and second he seemed far less honorable than Chris Pine. Pine's Steve Trevor was almost more like Steve Rogers and probably the closest you'd get to having WW and Cap in the same movie.

I hate that 2009 movie now. Both WW and Steve are terribly portrayed.

 

[kguillou]

The portrayal of Stever Trevor in the 2009 animated movie was terrible. First off, he seemed just like Richard Castle, and second he seemed far less honorable than Chris Pine. Pine's Steve Trevor was almost more like Steve Rogers and probably the closest you'd get to having WW and Cap in the same movie.

I hate that 2009 movie now. Both WW and Steve are terribly portrayed.

Lol, I still love the 2009 movie but I completely understand and even agree with you on their portrayals. In the movie's defense though, I think the point was that Steve was pretty mucha normal guy, he reacted the way any one of us would if we were stranded on an island full of beautiful women and he said things that we would have said if we were roped with the lasso of truth. But, that doesn't mean he's a bad guy and that was the point the animated movie was trying to make: that men are horny, sometimes very immature beings but a man can be those things and still be a good, selfless person which Steve shows by the end of the movie.

 

[Dark Raven]

Lol, I still love the 2009 movie but I completely understand and even agree with you on their portrayals. In the movie's defense though, I think the point was that Steve was pretty mucha normal guy, he reacted the way any one of us would if we were stranded on an island full of beautiful women and he said things that we would have said if we were roped with the lasso of truth. But, that doesn't mean he's a bad guy and that was the point the animated movie was trying to drive home: that men are horny, sometimes immature beings but a man can be those things and still be a good, selfless person which Steve shows by the end of the movie.

Oh I'm sure it's the case, but that just seemed like typical Nathan Fillion schtick. Even some of the arguments between Steve Trevor and WW were just like those between Richard Castle and Kate Beckett. I don't really find him suitable at all to play Steve Trevor. Another actor could've brought something else. But I thought that whole relationship dynamic was written badly though. Really lacking and cliched in comparison to the live action movie.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Which is the exact opposite of Joss Whedon's WW script where ALL of that happens. I think that would've had a ton of criticism if it had been made (it already is even only in script form) and would've sunk the movie and any hope of female superhero films and turned WW into an outdated icon whom people would think can't work on film. I am not keen on him tackling Batgirl. Wouldn't it be better to capitalise on this wave of success that DC/WB have been enjoying and hire a female director for that one too?

I can't see any reason in the world anyone would want to sexualize Batgirl. Catwoman, yes, because that is sort of who Catwoman is and they aren't really being true to the character if they don't make Catwoman sexy.
Not saying that Barbara isn't an attractive woman, but being sexy was never her thing. So hopefully Batgirl will be more Buffy and less pin-up.

 

[Silly Cat]

The portrayal of Stever Trevor in the 2009 animated movie was terrible. First off, he seemed just like Richard Castle, and second he seemed far less honorable than Chris Pine. Pine's Steve Trevor was almost more like Steve Rogers and probably the closest you'd get to having WW and Cap in the same movie.

I hate that 2009 movie now. Both WW and Steve are terribly portrayed.

I agree with you, I never liked the 2009 film, while the action was great I thought both Steve and Diana were portrayed terribly, I couldn't care about either of them, I even found Hippolyta and all the Amazons in that film unsympathetic. It was sort of a bitter pill for me to swallow because I wanted a good Wonder Woman film badly, but I could never make myself like the 2009 movie.

This film get's it right, I cared for both Steve and Diana in this film, I liked the Amazons (what we saw of them) and I love they didn't shove the 'female empowerment' message down our throats like the 2009 film did over and over again. That's what I meant by SHOWING and not TELLING. The 2009 is too busy TELLING.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[2kt09]

Still prefer the animated flick.

 

[Dark Raven]

I agree with you, I never liked the 2009 film, while the action was great I thought both Steve and Diana were portrayed terribly, I couldn't care about either of them, I even found Hippolyta and all the Amazons in that film unsympathetic. It was sort of a bitter pill for me to swallow because I wanted a good Wonder Woman film badly, but I could never make myself like the 2009 movie.

This film get's it right, I cared for both Steve and Diana in this film, I liked the Amazons (what we saw of them) and I love they didn't shove the 'female empowerment' message down our throats like the 2009 film did over and over again. That's what I meant by SHOWING and not TELLING. The 2009 is too busy TELLING.

Just my opinion of course.

Agree with everything here, especially the part about ramming it down our throats in the animated movie. I also didn't care about the characters at all.

Still prefer the animated flick.

What do you prefer about it? WW and Steve Trevor's portrayals?

 

[2kt09]

What do you prefer about it? WW and Steve Trevor's portrayals?

That's part of it. Since the mythology gets more focus (absolutely dug how they developed this; the gods and the Amazons), I was pretty surprised by how relatively subdued the "preachy" elements were as the apex of Trevor's lecture to her + the inversion of the romantic moment resonated. I love how they approached her judgmental nature. There was also more ingenuity to the combat/kills.

 

[kguillou]

I personally just liked how the film was so willing to poke fun at WW's mythology from Steve's perspective. I can 100% see how some of Steve's lines and quips being eye roll worthy to some people, especially WW fans, but as someone who wasn't a fan of the character at the time the movie came out, it was refreshing to see a DC movie, and animated movie at that, that was so willing to go with that adult humor that you rarely find in cartoons. My absolute favorite part of the movie was when Steve was flying the invisible jet and was trying to shoot the missiles but saw nothing fire so he thought it was broken, only to release that even the missiles are invisible and Fillion's delivery of "of course, invisible missiles! Hardy freakin' harr" was gold. I thought that was a brilliantly written moment imo.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's part of it. Since the mythology gets more focus (absolutely dug how they developed this; the gods and the Amazons), I was pretty surprised by how relatively subdued the "preachy" elements were as the apex of Trevor's lecture to her + the inversion of the romantic moment resonated. I love how they approached her judgmental nature. There was also more ingenuity to the combat/kills.

You preferred a stern, cold, hardened and judgmental Diana to a warm, loving, innocent and compassionate Diana? Or a womanizing Steve Trevor to a more honourable and respectful one?

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I turned off the animated WW movie. I am very against those types of feminists who think putting down men is how you build up women. Plus I hated Steve in that movie, love what Chris did with him much more.