Comics Amazing Spider-Man #569 NWTD pt2

[Shockdingo]

I've been caving in and checking these out, I am loving what they've been doing with Brock, I just hope they don't throw it all away now.

Spoiler

Anti-Venom could be an interesting new path for him and it might make for a plausible "hero version Brock" Honestly, I would hate for him to go bad now. I never thought I'd say that, but I feel that way. Also maybe his new symbiote is NOT sentient? He clearly referred to himself using "I am". Hmmm

 

[shogunrua]

I've been caving in and checking these out, I am loving what they've been doing with Brock, I just hope they don't throw it all away now.

Spoiler

Anti-Venom could be an interesting new path for him and it might make for a plausible "hero version Brock" Honestly, I would hate for him to go bad now. I never thought I'd say that, but I feel that way. Also maybe his new symbiote is NOT sentient? He clearly referred to himself using "I am". Hmmm

I have to say I thought the exact same thing about the "symbiote", may be we shouldn't even call it that way, because basically (and without further explanations) it's just the mutated remnants of the Venom symbiote bonded with his with blood cells. What I mean is that there were enough remnants of the symbiote that, when they mutated, could manifest it in a superpowered suit but not enough to have a sentience (which in a certain sense could be weird, it would mean that there would be two different "personnalities" of the same symbiote scattered in two hosts, if you understand what I mean)

 

[UK_Stu]

I just don't see how Brock can ever be considered a 'hero'. He was a murderer as Venom, and he murdered an innocent woman without the symbiote to use an excuse.

I like Brock and I'm glad to see him back - but he is a villain, lets not forget that what he's done.

 

[ragingdemon155]

What really killed this issue for me was Norman Osborn not knowing who Spider-man is. How could Marvel actually go through with that? That was the defining aspect of Norman's character and just like that...it's gone. Ah well..the issue was alright. I think the whole theme behind "Anti-Venom" is stupid.

But whatever..issue was alright.Just...still can't believe that Marvel would be stupid enough in stripping Norman of the knowledge of Spider-man's identity.

 

[Styleshift]

^^^ and let's not forget how he wasn't exactly a hero before he got the symbiote either. (sin eater arc...even though he really wasn't in it. lol)

My thoughts on NWTD 568 were spectacular. for the first time BND felt really good to me, its been mediocre thus far but what i want to know is...

what happened in 569? they really dropped the ball right back into the dryness of BND to me. it's been like what 8 months? they played the secret card with just about every character in the book in this issue. last issue felt like we had old peter back in this new world. the stories would be so much better if they kept the pace of last issue up.

i think its time to at least reveal ONE thing. just one thing. instead of poking and dragging out plot lines.

I know the hobgoblin is a good example of the mystery. but at least during that arc we knew most of what was going on so it brought more attention to it. heck even the stalker arc that mackie wrote was done better than the way these guys are teasing the secrets of OMD. we cared about these characters because we knew them. heck im not sure i'd be pissed if they killed mj off now.

 

[ragingdemon155]

^^^ and let's not forget how he wasn't exactly a hero before he got the symbiote either. (sin eater arc...even though he really wasn't in it. lol)

My thoughts on NWTD 568 were spectacular. for the first time BND felt really good to me, its been mediocre thus far but what i want to know is...

what happened in 569? they really dropped the ball right back into the dryness of BND to me. it's been like what 8 months? they played the secret card with just about every character in the book in this issue. last issue felt like we had old peter back in this new world. the stories would be so much better if they kept the pace of last issue up.

i think its time to at least reveal ONE thing. just one thing. instead of poking and dragging out plot lines.

I know the hobgoblin is a good example of the mystery. but at least during that arc we knew most of what was going on so it brought more attention to it. heck even the stalker arc that mackie wrote was done better than the way these guys are teasing the secrets of OMD. we cared about these characters because we knew them. heck im not sure i'd be pissed if they killed mj off now.

That's pretty much my exact thoughts on the issue. Even though I didn't feel the first issue was excellent by any stretch of the imagination...I felt this issue was even worse. Just didn't do anything for me. Wasn't MJ supposed to be featured in this storyline? How long is this arc supposed to be?

It just really urks the hell out of me to have Norman talking to Peter and NOT KNOWING anything.

 

[kguillou]

Marvel really needs to start revealing some stuff, its been 8 months, we've been patient, give us SOMETHING. I just want to know how Pete's i.d. is secret, is that soo much to ask?? Why is marvel hesitating so much with these OMD secrets? I think more readers would be more inclined to keep reading if they knew what exactly was going on in this new direction. This isnt like some kind of mystery, these are important details that the readers needs to know in order to follow and enjoy the story.

 

[The Demon's Head]

You've got to be kidding me. The guy that killed Gwen Stacy and orchestarted the Clone Saga doesn't know who Spider-man is?

That's just beyond stupid.

 

[Themanofbat]

That's pretty much my exact thoughts on the issue. Even though I didn't feel the first issue was excellent by any stretch of the imagination...I felt this issue was even worse. Just didn't do anything for me. Wasn't MJ supposed to be featured in this storyline? How long is this arc supposed to be?

It just really urks the hell out of me to have Norman talking to Peter and NOT KNOWING anything.

Marvel really needs to start revealing some stuff, its been 8 months, we've been patient, give us SOMETHING. I just want to know how Pete's i.d. is secret, is that soo much to ask?? Why is marvel hesitating so much with these OMD secrets? I think more readers would be more inclined to keep reading if they knew what exactly was going on in this new direction. This isnt like some kind of mystery, these are important details that the readers needs to know in order to follow and enjoy the story.

You've got to be kidding me. The guy that killed Gwen Stacy and orchestarted the Clone Saga doesn't know who Spider-man is?

That's just beyond stupid.

The yDID give us something... for the first time BND began, we now know that Peter (with the aid of somebody else), helped made his ID secret again... THAT's pretty revealing... and the fact that Peter knows it means that it IS NOT Mephisto that did it with a magical mindwipe... perhaps Loki, perhaps another Marvel magician (Dr. Strange maybe? they have history)... I think it's pretty cool.

And Norman was aware of who Spider-Man was when he killed Gwen and orchestrated the Clone Saga... those things still happened as they were... but obviously, in recent Marvel chronology, Peter did something to make everyone forget. And that's cool and it gives new life to Norman Osborn/Green Goblin as a Spdier-Man villain.

His knowing of Spider-Man's identity is what led to his death in 1973 when Stan Lee had to use "amnesia" as an excuse 3 times in a 5 year period.

This is a fresh start for Norman, and I, for one, welcome it.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I don't get the whole we need to know now thing. Am I the only one who likes it when things aren't revealved straight away? I hate to have read forums [even though they didn't exisy]] when the Hobgoblin stuff was happening.

 

[Styleshift]

That's pretty much my exact thoughts on the issue. Even though I didn't feel the first issue was excellent by any stretch of the imagination...I felt this issue was even worse. Just didn't do anything for me. Wasn't MJ supposed to be featured in this storyline? How long is this arc supposed to be?

It just really urks the hell out of me to have Norman talking to Peter and NOT KNOWING anything.

I think it lasts about 5-7 issues but I can't remember.

as for Mj...your thinking of the promo piece. it was confusing but they had a pic of spidey on the side the return of mj (paper doll arc) kraven's grave. (kraven's daughter) and in august new ways to die begins/ with anti venom and mac venom.

the first ish was good, its the way this book should be written if they are trying to be persistent with keeping this as the new status quo, but i mean no one knows what the heck is going on!

having norman not know is a good move (because they may now have norman pursue pete 100 percent without taunting him like usual)

 

[The Demon's Head]

The yDID give us something... for the first time BND began, we now know that Peter (with the aid of somebody else), helped made his ID secret again... THAT's pretty revealing... and the fact that Peter knows it means that it IS NOT Mephisto that did it with a magical mindwipe... perhaps Loki, perhaps another Marvel magician (Dr. Strange maybe? they have history)... I think it's pretty cool.

And Norman was aware of who Spider-Man was when he killed Gwen and orchestrated the Clone Saga... those things still happened as they were... but obviously, in recent Marvel chronology, Peter did something to make everyone forget. And that's cool and it gives new life to Norman Osborn/Green Goblin as a Spdier-Man villain.

His knowing of Spider-Man's identity is what led to his death in 1973 when Stan Lee had to use "amnesia" as an excuse 3 times in a 5 year period.

This is a fresh start for Norman, and I, for one, welcome it.

But that preety much ruins the entire dynamic between Spider-ma and the Green Goblin. If he doesn't know, then he's not Spider-man's greatest enemy anymore. :

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Y'know what I find funny? People complain that all BND does is stick on in an old era and that we need to move forward with something new. As soon as something new happens people complain.

They can't win.

 

[The Demon's Head]

Y'know what I find funny? People complain that all BND does is stick on in an old era and that we need to move forward with something new. As soon as something new happens people complain.

They can't win.

You're right. As long as they keep using weak stroytelling methods and cheap gimmicks like "Anti-Venom", they can't win.

 

[kguillou]

Originally Posted by Jack O Lantern
Y'know what I find funny? People complain that all BND does is stick on in an old era and that we need to move forward with something new. As soon as something new happens people complain.

They can't win.

Dude, thats not true at all. There were many new changes that people were welcome to especially during JMS' run. Everybody loved how aunt may was revamped into a younger looking, snappier woman. Everyone loved how JMS made Peter Parker a teacher. Everybody loved the first time Spider-man fought Morlun and met Ezekiel. There were many welcome changes that the fans loved hence the reason why sales were way up during JMS' run. We were actually liking where he was taking the character (besides a few really bad stories). But now we just took 10 gigantic leaps backwards and we're upset because all the progression is gone. We like change and we like progression as long as its logical and well-written.

 

[arachnid-guy]

Waitaminute...i liked the ish....but the 'WE' Peter refers to. If it turns out to be ''magically'' someone else to change the Status Quo...like Strange or Loki...why make it Mephisto in OMD in the first place? Why not Strange or Loki from the outset?

Also:

Dude, thats not true at all. There were many new changes that people were welcome to especially during JMS' run. Everybody loved how aunt may was revamped into a younger looking, snappier woman. Everyone loved how JMS made Peter Parker a teacher. Everybody loved the first time Spider-man fought Morlun and met Ezekiel. There were many welcome changes that the fans loved hence the reason why sales were way up during JMS' run. We were actually liking where he was taking the character (besides a few really bad stories). But now we just took 10 gigantic leaps backwards and we're upset because all the progression is gone. We like change and we like progression as long as its logical and well-written.

QFT.

 

[Themanofbat]

I don't get the whole we need to know now thing. Am I the only one who likes it when things aren't revealved straight away? I hate to have read forums [even though they didn't exisy]] when the Hobgoblin stuff was happening.

You're not the only one...

 

[Themanofbat]

Dude, thats not true at all. There were many new changes that people were welcome to especially during JMS' run. Everybody loved how aunt may was revamped into a younger looking, snappier woman. Everyone loved how JMS made Peter Parker a teacher. Everybody loved the first time Spider-man fought Morlun and met Ezekiel. There were many welcome changes that the fans loved hence the reason why sales were way up during JMS' run. We were actually liking where he was taking the character (besides a few really bad stories). But now we just took 10 gigantic leaps backwards and we're upset because all the progression is gone. We like change and we like progression as long as its logical and well-written.

I like how the changes you mentioned all happened within JMS' first 8 issues... lol

 

[Themanofbat]

But that preety much ruins the entire dynamic between Spider-ma and the Green Goblin. If he doesn't know, then he's not Spider-man's greatest enemy anymore.

The Goblin was establishing himself as one of Spidey's great enemies even prior to Norman finding out... and truth be told, the whole "kowing his identity" thing was really wearing thin... this gives us a new start with Norman & Harry & Peter and you know with their history as it already is established (the Green Goblin still killed Gwen Stacy), why wouldn't Peter think that Norman isn't his greatest enemy still? After all, whatever "mind wipe" that happened could possibly "unhappen", so Peter's paranoia will always perk up whenever Norman is around.

This is probably the best thing to happen to Norman since his death in 1973.

 

[Themanofbat]

Waitaminute...i liked the ish....but the 'WE' Peter refers to. If it turns out to be ''magically'' someone else to change the Status Quo...like Strange or Loki...why make it Mephisto in OMD in the first place? Why not Strange or Loki from the outset?

I think they went with Mephisto (for whatever reasons), and Mephisto controlled things to make and/or made the situation work for the demands that were asked.

 

[arachnid-guy]

I think they went with Mephisto (for whatever reasons), and Mephisto controlled things to make and/or made the situation work for the demands that were asked.

...oh.
I definitely hope there's a plan for all of this magic ret-cons. Did I hear there's an upcoming 'MARVEL CROSSOVER BIG EARTH SHATTERING EVENT' that addresses Mephisto's inclusion in OMD [or rather, the Marvel Universe as a result of OMD]?

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Posted this in the "New Ways to Die" thread, too.

My Review of Amazing Spider-Man #569:

If you read my previous review of last issue, you'll know that I raved about it and thought it was fantastic. And I do. I loved a Spider-Man book again and it felt good. Everything was right in the world. I couldn't wait for the next issue. And then it finally came in the mail.

A little part of me died as I read this issue. I was so excited to read it, and when I did, there were several big things that kept me from loving it...from even liking it a lot. While the story is progressing well, and it is interesting, I can only marvel at how much more interesting it would be if this was taking place pre-OMD.

Let me start with the good stuff. One word: Anti-Venom. I like this. Eddie with a symbiote again makes things a little bit more Spidey-ish. Granted, he is, as the name implies, not like his counterpart. Inverted color schemes, I imagine, are the only beginning of the difference between Anti-Venom and Venom. I'm very, very interested to see how this could be used, and it could be used well. Eddie Venom already had that "lethal protector" aspect to him, so imagine what it would be like to have anti-hero Venom. I like it. I'm sure lots of fans hate it, but I like. Another plus for the issue was Slott's writing. His dialogue is great, as usual. And Peter "sounds" like Peter. And my favorite part of the issue was, of course, Romita's artwork. But that goes without saying.

And then there's the bad...

Where do I begin? The biggest slap in the face to me was Peter recalling that "Oh, that's right, no one knows who I am now." What?? Peter knows about the unmasking? Peter knows something of OMD? More importantly, why isn't he angrier?? It presents a slew of questions, but let me move on. Second thing, and the one that I hate...loathe the most: Norman Osborn doesn't know that Peter is Spider-Man. Right there, that just stripped the character of years worth of growth and layering. He just doesn't seem like Osborn. There's...not that looming threat that not only is Spidey in personal danger, but MJ and May and Robbie and JJJ and (in the new status quo) Carlie simply because of who Peter is. What's the point? Incidentally, does this mean the Symbiote/Venom doesn't know who Peter is?? Because that really would take the cake. Finally, my last big complaint is that there's all these little reminders from Marvel that say "LOL! We screwed you're favorite character!" I really want to like this story. But how can I when OMD is constantly thrown at us? "New Ways to Die" is falling into the trap that nearly every BND story has: mediocrity plagued by the confines of BND itself.

You know, though....the funniest thing is, I could handle nearly everything (except for Norman not knowing who Spider-Man is!! WHAT THE HECK, MARVEL???!!) if only Mary Jane and Peter still were married and together, grounding the story solidly in Spidey continuity. I actually just received #570 in the mail today early. I'm reading it tonight and posting a review later. I hope things get better. If they don't, I'm fairly certain that this is my last story arc in Amazing Spider-Man until things get better.

I give this issue a 6/10. I didn't hate it...but I didn't like it that much either. The changes to the characters (Norman, possibly Venom, etc.) alienate me from the story waaay too much.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

the whole we thing, its nothing to do with the deal with the devil

Spoiler

the whole we think refers to civil war, peter revealed himself to be spider-man but that was retconned to be that he wasn't spider-man but the spokes man for starks idea of using joe public to create an army of spider-men, hence we get the scarlet spiders in the initiative

thats the way i took it

 

[shogunrua]

the whole we thing, its nothing to do with the deal with the devil

Spoiler

the whole we think refers to civil war, peter revealed himself to be spider-man but that was retconned to be that he wasn't spider-man but the spokes man for starks idea of using joe public to create an army of spider-men, hence we get the scarlet spiders in the initiative

thats the way i took it

so you think that people in the marvel universe that Peter still was "a" spider-man but not the spider-man (which basically was what Slott put on avengers the initiative). It could work.

personnaly I still think something magic happened to zap out Peter's identity, because I find it too weird that Peter's walking in the street and no one cares, altough he would have been a superhero (even a fake one)... hope my opinion is clear

 

[kguillou]

Yea exactly, i agree there has to have been some magic involved. Otherwise Peter would be somewhat of a celebrity even if he was just "a" spiderman. And a lot of people would still have that doubt. Just like what's going on in Daredevil right now. Technically his identity is secret again, but since it was revealed during Bendis' run, alot of people still believe he's daredevil and there's still that doubt. Besides, after Peter revealed his identity, there were many instances where he publicly displayed that he was spiderman. What about that issue of Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man where he confronted JJ with his mask off? What about completely owning the Kingpin with his mask off, in front of a large jail crowd too. Do those stories still exist?