America...the Thread

Yes, common sense dictates such a response. That's why I specifically said "Public places where smoking isn't banned".


The question comes down to "who is being hurt by banning smoking?"

Answer: No one.

1. It's good for those that "do" smoke simply because that's one or two less cigarettes they will inhale. How can that be a bad thing for them? They may be pissed. But that's all.

2. It's good for those that don't smoke...for obvious reasons.
 
Those that don't smoke.....that would include small children, should not have to leave a public place because of those reasons. The responsibility should be on the smoker.
 
I'm planning on it once I get a stable job and a MBA.


That makes no sense. This country is too horrible. Why would you want to use the evil capitalist system to get ahead use evil American schools to get a degree.

Go to one of those better countries. Surely, we have nothing to offer you here. Right? :woot: :dry:
 
Those that don't smoke.....that would include small children, should not have to leave a public place because of those reasons. The responsibility should be on the smoker.

Hit the nail on the head

What are we defining as public spaces here?

Any place where the public is.....indoors 9 times out of 10.....that have a smoking ban on them.
 
A blanket ban is fair for everybody? Think that one through a little better. If you own an establishment (non-public) you have the right not to serve someone or allow them inside at all, so why shouldn't you have the right to decide what can or cannot happen inside your own establishment?

There are a lot of things owners can't decide to do inside their establishment by law. This ban was put into place in my county about a year and a half ago. It's great. I can go out and have a beer and get some dinner without smelling like a **** hole. And now when I do go to a bar with smoking, it's completely disgusting. It wasn't too long ago that smoking was aloud in the work place and on airplanes. Could you imagine that now a days?
 
The problem I have with some people who defend a smoking ban is that they talk about how they have just as much of a right to be in that establishment as the smoker, but shouldn't have to deal with their smoke. My response, the strip club down the street from me supposedly has one of the BEST lunch deals in town, but would it equally be ok for them to say "I hate seeing naked girls, but should still have the right to eat there for lunch. Get rid of the strippers".
 
There are a lot of things owners can't decide to do inside their establishment by law. This ban was put into place in my county about a year and a half ago. It's great. I can go out and have a beer and get some dinner without smelling like a **** hole. And now when I do go to a bar with smoking, it's completely disgusting. It wasn't too long ago that smoking was aloud in the work place and on airplanes. Could you imagine that now a days?

Hey I'm glad the majority is happy with it. I truely hope the "better" people will continue telling me what's good for me and making everything but illegal.

So you stay away from the bars with smoking and go to the nonsmoking establishments. That's practically a defination of free choice, you don't like one so you choose the other. It's when you ban one option that people such as myself are going to take issue, because you've taken away a choice.

I believe I've said that smoking should only be allowed in private establishments where the owner has a "right to choose and deny" option. Airlines don't have that and smoking in them is stupid. But to completely ban smoking in a bar is just going to the other side of the insanity. You're a grown up, take responsiblity for your actions and choose what you want, just don't choose for me as well and we'll get along great.
 
1. It's good for those that "do" smoke simply because that's one or two less cigarettes they will inhale. How can that be a bad thing for them? They may be pissed. But that's all.
Sounds very communist to me, maybe you should rethink your party affilations.
 
The question comes down to "who is being hurt by banning smoking?"

Answer: No one.

1. It's good for those that "do" smoke simply because that's one or two less cigarettes they will inhale. How can that be a bad thing for them? They may be pissed. But that's all.

2. It's good for those that don't smoke...for obvious reasons.

If that was true, then smoking would be illegal in the first place. If there is no ban on smoking, guess what, you can smoke, and if someone doesn't like it, they can leave. It's really that simple.

And please don't throw in the kids to make your argument sympathize with some bleeding heart out there. The parents shouldn't take kids to those type of places in the first place.
 
It depends completly where I and the smoker are. If I am at the smokers house I leave. If the smoker is in a public place where smoking is banned they should leave. I know it's simple but IMO smokers should loose points in their free rights category as they can obviously not control their habbits/addictions.

What about the rights of the owner of the bar?
 
The problem I have with some people who defend a smoking ban is that they talk about how they have just as much of a right to be in that establishment as the smoker, but shouldn't have to deal with their smoke. My response, the strip club down the street from me supposedly has one of the BEST lunch deals in town, but would it equally be ok for them to say "I hate seeing naked girls, but should still have the right to eat there for lunch. Get rid of the strippers".

The problem with that analogy is that the purpose of a strip club is to look at naked people. If I went to into a cigar lounge and complained about the smoke, I'd be wrong. If I went to a bar and complained about drunk people, I'd be wrong. Bars and smoking go don't go hand in hand. Once again, you can smoke AT the bar, you just can't smoke INSIDE the bar.
 
Hey I'm glad the majority is happy with it. I truely hope the "better" people will continue telling me what's good for me and making everything but illegal.

So you stay away from the bars with smoking and go to the nonsmoking establishments. That's practically a defination of free choice, you don't like one so you choose the other. It's when you ban one option that people such as myself are going to take issue, because you've taken away a choice.

That's the point. Before the ban there was no option. ALL bars were smoking bars. Non smokers didn't have a non smoking bar. We have a choice now BECAUSE of the ban.

I believe I've said that smoking should only be allowed in private establishments where the owner has a "right to choose and deny" option. Airlines don't have that and smoking in them is stupid. But to completely ban smoking in a bar is just going to the other side of the insanity. You're a grown up, take responsiblity for your actions and choose what you want, just don't choose for me as well and we'll get along great.

Owners do have a right to choose and deny to an extent. Be despite what an owner wants to do, there are laws that make it illegal for them to do it. It goes for a lot of things, not just smoking. And you can smoke outside all you like, you just can't smoke inside. What's wrong with that?
 
If that was true, then smoking would be illegal in the first place. If there is no ban on smoking, guess what, you can smoke, and if someone doesn't like it, they can leave. It's really that simple.

And please don't throw in the kids to make your argument sympathize with some bleeding heart out there. The parents shouldn't take kids to those type of places in the first place.


Why can't parents take their kids to a a restaurant?
 
That's the point. Before the ban there was no option. ALL bars were smoking bars. Non smokers didn't have a non smoking bar. We have a choice now BECAUSE of the ban.



Owners do have a right to choose and deny to an extent. Be despite what an owner wants to do, there are laws that make it illegal for them to do it. It goes for a lot of things, not just smoking. And you can smoke outside all you like, you just can't smoke inside. What's wrong with that?

Bars were only smoking bars because they chose to be. You or any other nonsmoker could have started any establishment you wished and made it nonsmoking. So you can't really complain. No one choose to do it, so rather than starting nonsmoking establishments they just started outlawing them. That's not just stupid or unamerican it's also very lazy.

Yes, you can't shoot people inside bars or anything illegal like that, I've heard that before. But the fact remains you cannot seem to compromise. Instead of saying "some can be and some won't be" you're it's all or nothing. Now we're back to free choice.

What's wrong with losing my rights? Nothing at first, smoking outside wouldn't be that big a deal (though I do like to smoke in bars that allow it) but it's the fact that eventually this will lead to a straight up ban.

Big changes never happen all at once, it starts out small. You take away a right here and a right there and once people are used to that you go bigger and bigger and pretty soon we're marching people off into camps and telling people it's for our own good or protection. I know that's reaching, but it's also true, just look at history. Everything Stalin did was for the good of the people and he's history's greatest mass murderer.
 
which, essentially is the same.

Demos Kratia= Greek

Res Publica= Latin

It's not the same at all. If we were a true democracy, we'd be voting left and right, on everything. Majority rule would .. rule. We're not a democracy. Just ask Al Gore.
 
Bars were only smoking bars because they chose to be. You or any other nonsmoker could have started any establishment you wished and made it nonsmoking. So you can't really complain. No one choose to do it, so rather than starting nonsmoking establishments they just started outlawing them. That's not just stupid or unamerican it's also very lazy.

Yes, you can't shoot people inside bars or anything illegal like that, I've heard that before. But the fact remains you cannot seem to compromise. Instead of saying "some can be and some won't be" you're it's all or nothing. Now we're back to free choice.

What's wrong with losing my rights? Nothing at first, smoking outside wouldn't be that big a deal (though I do like to smoke in bars that allow it) but it's the fact that eventually this will lead to a straight up ban.

Big changes never happen all at once, it starts out small. You take away a right here and a right there and once people are used to that you go bigger and bigger and pretty soon we're marching people off into camps and telling people it's for our own good or protection. I know that's reaching, but it's also true, just look at history. Everything Stalin did was for the good of the people and he's history's greatest mass murderer.

It isn't all for nothing. Restaurant bars are non-smoking, stand-alone bar are smoking. Now there is a choice. I frequent Restaurant bars because it's non smoking. I choice not to go to stand-alone bars because it smells like ass. It's all perspective, your right to smoke or my right not to be around smoke. I could be forced to leave because I don't want to smell smoke or you could be forced to leave because you want to smoke. Before the ban, it was I who would be forced to leave. Now we both have a bar to go to. And having a smoke free bar wouldn't be economically sound just like if you had a full nude strip club and a panties and tassle strip club right next to each other. One would make lots of money the other not so much.
 
It's not the same at all. If we were a true democracy, we'd be voting left and right, on everything. Majority rule would .. rule. We're not a democracy. Just ask Al Gore.

We are a democratic republic. We elect representitives to vote for us.
 
Bars were only smoking bars because they chose to be. You or any other nonsmoker could have started any establishment you wished and made it nonsmoking. So you can't really complain. No one choose to do it, so rather than starting nonsmoking establishments they just started outlawing them. That's not just stupid or unamerican it's also very lazy.

Yes, you can't shoot people inside bars or anything illegal like that, I've heard that before. But the fact remains you cannot seem to compromise. Instead of saying "some can be and some won't be" you're it's all or nothing. Now we're back to free choice.

What's wrong with losing my rights? Nothing at first, smoking outside wouldn't be that big a deal (though I do like to smoke in bars that allow it) but it's the fact that eventually this will lead to a straight up ban.

Big changes never happen all at once, it starts out small. You take away a right here and a right there and once people are used to that you go bigger and bigger and pretty soon we're marching people off into camps and telling people it's for our own good or protection. I know that's reaching, but it's also true, just look at history. Everything Stalin did was for the good of the people and he's history's greatest mass murderer.


Your not stretching at all, that's damn true. I live in CA, the bay area to be exact. A few months back on the news there was this little old lady(who's most likely going to die soon anyway) that was complaining that her neighbor (who is smoking on their own property mind you) was bothering her from the smoke.

Guess what! Now if someone see's you smoking in your own backyard, if they feel the need, they can call it in and get you fined! I don't give a rats ass if your a non smoker and think that's fair, that is bull**** on a stick! That shows how bad most of the complainers in our country are slowly letting the government take away our freedoms one piece at a time. As moraldeficiency said, things/movements always start off small.
 
I don't want to cause any offence or anything but.... the point of this thread is lost on me??:huh:
 
Your not stretching at all, that's damn true. I live in CA, the bay area to be exact. A few months back on the news there was this little old lady(who's most likely going to die soon anyway) that was complaining that her neighbor (who is smoking on their own property mind you) was bothering her from the smoke.

Guess what! Now if someone see's you smoking in your own backyard, if they feel the need, they can call it in and get you fined! I don't give a rats ass if your a non smoker and think that's fair, that is bull**** on a stick! That shows how bad most of the complainers in our country are slowly letting the government take away our freedoms one piece at a time. As moraldeficiency said, things/movements always start off small.

Trust me, that's NOT going to happen here.
 

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