Arrow Arrow General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Jedi Arrow]

Even though it was a step down from the first two, I don't think season 3 was bad. I enjoyed more than I disliked about it. I don't know what people think of RT when it comes to TV shows, but it has 76% audience score and a rating of 3.5/5 from 1800 fans. I think that is fair. It wasn't great, but it was an ok-good season overall.

It was a step down from 1 and 2, but I think its biggest problem was...it was boring. There was no light-heartedness, no fun. It was all srs bsns all the time, from Felicity and Oliver and Diggle and Roy and Thea and Laurel. None of them were particularly happy that season and it got...boring. Dry. A slog. Felicity did virtually nothing but cry or whine or snap at Oliver.

S4, while more enjoyable when it's at its good points, is not just boring when it's bad, it's bad. The Smoak family is obnoxious when their drama comes up although Felicity's been better this season when she's not involved in drama, and I think Noah would be a great character if he weren't involved in drama, and it's all...it just makes me want to pull my hair out whenever Donna starts getting on to Lance or Noah, or Felicity starts chewing on Oliver's head, or something. This season's been more light-hearted though (despite the overall dark–no pun intended–tone). There's been humor, smiles, good moments to weigh out sadness like Laurel's death. And lest we forget, Oliver didn't go all Darth Vader, either.

 

[metaphysician]

Given that she spent most of her time on the show as a lot of online fans least favourite and most useless, unconvincing character, they might have thought that she was the teams most disposable member. The death really should have been Quentin, but if I am being honest, they could have gotten away with not killing anyone this season. Every season someone has died, they could have gone one season without a death.

Note also that there are rumors the movies may have yanked Black Canary. If that's true, it explains a lot. But yes, I think people on this forum have, in their vehement Olicity hate, forgotten how despised Laurel was in season 1 and *especially* season 2. The fans largely embraced Felicity at the time because they wanted Laurel to go die in a fire.

( Sadly, we have evidence in retrospect that the problem wasn't Laurel, and isn't Felicity either; its that the writers cannot write a heroic romance to save their lives. )

 

[Boy Scout]

I don't think anyone's forgotten anything; we've just acknowledged that the writing surrounding Laurel has improved.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Note also that there are rumors the movies may have yanked Black Canary. If that's true, it explains a lot. But yes, I think people on this forum have, in their vehement Olicity hate, forgotten how despised Laurel was in season 1 and *especially* season 2. The fans largely embraced Felicity at the time because they wanted Laurel to go die in a fire.

( Sadly, we have evidence in retrospect that the problem wasn't Laurel, and isn't Felicity either; its that the writers cannot write a heroic romance to save their lives. )

I'm one of the ones who actually liked Laurel's portrayal in S1 and even S2. Yes, she was a jerk in S2, but remember she was an alcoholic and on pills because of her boyfriend's death (not accepting S4's retcon that it was because Oliver left, that is). And she actually had a really great arc, getting over the alcohol and her hatred for the Arrow and anger at Sara (and eventually discovering Oliver was the Arrow), it's just that most people were so busy gnashing their teeth at her that they didn't pay attention to it.

 

[metaphysician]

Arrowverse rankings:
Flash Season 1
Flash Season 2
Arrow Season 2
Arrow Season 1, Supergirl Season 1
90s Flash
Legends of Tomorrow Season 1
Vixen Season 1
Constantine
Arrow Season 4
Arrow Season 3

I largely agree, except I think you ranked Constantine *waay* too high, and I'd put LoT and Arrow s4 on the same row ( LoT had better highs, but stupider stupids ).

 

[metaphysician]

Not thrown out, but there have definitely been some major deviations from the original plan.

I continue to believe that they ended up rewriting most of season 3 at the behest of the powers that be, who told them "wind down the Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller, you won't be able to use them anymore, and especially not as the season Big Bad".

 

[TheCommissioner]

I continue to believe that they ended up rewriting most of season 3 at the behest of the powers that be, who told them "wind down the Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller, you won't be able to use them anymore, and especially not as the season Big Bad".

Pretty much this

word comes down from on high that you have to change plans midstream, it causes issues, especially when youve already laid out your whole season plan

still mad we won't have Deathstroke back any time soon, Manu Bennett killed as Slade

 

[Broseph44]

intriguing

I find the people complaining about Laurel for 3 + seasons are now mourning her passing

I just hated her when she was going through her little being an alcoholic phase. She annoyed the hell out of me. But I did like her as Canary.

 

[regnak]

intriguing

I find the people complaining about Laurel for 3 + seasons are now mourning her passing

Try 2 + seasons, things started turning around in season 3.

 

[Slade W]

I'm one of the ones who actually liked Laurel's portrayal in S1 and even S2. Yes, she was a jerk in S2, but remember she was an alcoholic and on pills because of her boyfriend's death (not accepting S4's retcon that it was because Oliver left, that is). And she actually had a really great arc, getting over the alcohol and her hatred for the Arrow and anger at Sara (and eventually discovering Oliver was the Arrow), it's just that most people were so busy gnashing their teeth at her that they didn't pay attention to it.

I really liked her arc in season 2 as well. Never once did I dislike her during that season and I don't consider her to have been a jerk that season like you do. There were some things that she did that I did not agree with and that I would not have done, but I still found most of her actions to be understandable. I enjoyed the majority of her scenes that season.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I really liked her arc in season 2 as well. Never once did I dislike her during that season and I don't consider her to have been a jerk that season like you do. There were some things that she did that I did not agree with and that I would not have done, but I still found most of her actions to be understandable. I enjoyed the majority of her scenes that season.

I found her understandable, too, but still a bit too touchy (like when Oliver was trying to help her, and she took it as him trying to be romantic, and when he told her it wasn't like that she basically brushed him off and told him she didn't want to be around him anymore).

 

[Primal Slayer]

I always liked Laurel but didn't necessarily agree with the storylines they would give her. They tried their damnest to put off her evolution to Black Canary for some reason. Her "island" is now of course useless imo but her real "island" should've been in play when the show began. Losing her boyfriend and her sister at the same time along with them cheating together on her was island material. We shouldn't have been introduced to her at CNRY, we should've been introduced to her at a dojo/gym where she was training, something that helped with her anger. Then delve into her professional life as a lawyer. But they wanted her to be the usual damsel.

Even if they did S1 the same, s2 should've opened with her starting her training instead of still holding her back.

 

[Slade W]

Back in season 1 & 2, I had faith in the writers and believed that everything would work out well in the end with the characters. The faith I used to have as well as the goodwill they built up with me is long gone though.

 

[DeadFan]

..it just makes me want to pull my hair out whenever Donna starts getting on to Lance or Noah,

Donna: another huge mistake, imo. She needs to leave. Immediately.

Just as they made a big mistake IMO putting Felicity front & center and giving her character too much focus, so too have they made a mistake by inserting Donna into so many episodes.

In fact sometimes I almost wonder if one reason why they chose to kill Laurel rather than Quentin was so they could keep poor Quentin around solely as a device to justify more screentime & purpose for Donna

 

[batdude]

I continue to believe that they ended up rewriting most of season 3 at the behest of the powers that be, who told them "wind down the Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller, you won't be able to use them anymore, and especially not as the season Big Bad".

Well, they could have just sent them to Markovia or Lian Yu until they find out how the movie did. Yes the movie division is a part of this, but let's not give Guggenheim such an obvious cop out.

 

[batdude]

Donna: another huge mistake, imo. She needs to leave. Immediately.

Just as they made a big mistake IMO putting Felicity front & center and giving her character too much focus, so too have they made a mistake by inserting Donna into so many episodes.

In fact sometimes I almost wonder if one reason why they chose to kill Laurel rather than Quentin was so they could keep poor Quentin around solely as a device to justify more screentime & purpose for Donna

Donna is a one joke character who is just not funny anymore

 

[famicommander]

I was one of the people very annoyed with Laurel in the first two seasons. If they had chosen to kill her off then, I wouldn't really have had an issue.

But I thought her progression was one of the saving graces of seasons 3 and 4. Killing her off after salvaging the character was rather frustrating.

 

[Batsfan1]

intriguing

I find the people complaining about Laurel for 3 + seasons are now mourning her passing

I didn't complain about anything other than the storyline she was given. I didn't see how her actions deserved any more hatred than those of the main characters, who were doing worse stuff.

Note also that there are rumors the movies may have yanked Black Canary. If that's true, it explains a lot. But yes, I think people on this forum have, in their vehement Olicity hate, forgotten how despised Laurel was in season 1 and *especially* season 2. The fans largely embraced Felicity at the time because they wanted Laurel to go die in a fire.

( Sadly, we have evidence in retrospect that the problem wasn't Laurel, and isn't Felicity either; its that the writers cannot write a heroic romance to save their lives. )

How could no one have known that? It was obvious. Not that Laurel was a real problem. People just unjustly hated on her. And the writers pandered to that too much in that season. Have a very great day you both and everyone!

God bless you two! God bless everyone!

 

[Boy Scout]

Back in season 1 & 2, I had faith in the writers and believed that everything would work out well in the end with the characters. The faith I used to have as well as the goodwill they built up with me is long gone though.

Agreed. I did find her annoying for a time, but then I realized that she was a depressed alcoholic who popped pills on the side. She was very rarely in the right state of mind, and although it was her decision to start doing drugs and drinking to excess (a decision that was made out of grief, but I digress), it should still be taken into account how that stuff can affect a person's state of mind and behavior. I felt that we should have felt sorry for her, not disgusted by her.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I'm enjoying the hell out if this season and the show just keeps getting better and better.

Alas, the surprise at Laurel's death was ruined for me by stupid headlines on Google. I normally find it easy to avoid spoilers but there is just too much floating on the internet. I wasn't even looking up anything Arrow related. :P

I'm disappointed that Felicity is up and walking again. I think they should have kept her in the wheelchair permanently. A great deal of potential in such a story.

Other than that all is good.

Also, why isn't ARGUS taking a more active role in combating HIVE? The lack of assistance when Waller was in command was self explanatory, but now that Lyla runs the show she has an army at her disposable to help Green Arrow. Is ARGUS simply not equipped to handle HIVE or is she not allowed to by those higher up?

It isn't that I want ARGUS to take over the fight - it is Arrow after all, not ARGUS The Series but just wondering about the in-universe explanation.

Or am I wrong? Has it been said on the show that Lyla and HIVE are active in the fight but that it is simply happening off screen.

I'm sad to see Laurel go, but I felt that that Team Arrow was too large with four active fighters. It needed to slim down to make the villains more of a threat.

Also, in Season 5 Oliver needs to fave a few metahuman villains of week.

 

[Gintoki]

My Arrowverse ranking:
Arrow Season 2
Arrow Season 1
Flash Season 1
Flash Season 2
Arrow Season 3
Legends of Tomorrow Season 1
Supergirl Season 1
Vixen Season 1
Arrow Season 4

I enjoyed Arrow Season 3, despite its flaws. But Arrow Season 4? Oh boy.

 

[Omegabat]

Well I'm out after this season, the numbers for Arrow are dismal currently and short of a change in show runners, complete overhaul, a massive gimmick and radically different direction I dont see it recovering. Best case scenario is cancellation so the resources can be used elsewhere, Arrow is the sick man of comicbook shows imo, it's well past it's best days.

I'm just secretly praying that DC/WB dont allow Arrow to use aka ruin Prometheus.

 

[Omegabat]

I also dont buy Amell's shoddy excuses, either he should shut up or pin point the actual flaws. Setting up the Flash didn't hurt season 2 in the slightest and season 4 was actually decent when it was busy setting up LOT uptill the mid-season final. It's after episode 9 and onwards that s4 went downhill and that's because Guggy was finally able to sink his teeth in to Felicity.

Likewise Slade is the best villain on this show and he had superpowers, Ra's is arguably the worst(certainly the most boring) and he doesn't have powers.

 

[famicommander]

Well I'm out after this season, the numbers for Arrow are dismal currently and short of a change in show runners, complete overhaul, a massive gimmick and radically different direction I dont see it recovering. Best case scenario is cancellation so the resources can be used elsewhere, Arrow is the sick man of comicbook shows imo, it's well past it's best days.

I'm just secretly praying that DC/WB dont allow Arrow to use aka ruin Prometheus.

This is absolutely not going to happen. Arrow's ratings are fine, and it's the #2 show on the network by a comfortable margin. It's perfectly normal for a show to hit a low number this late in its fourth season, especially considering it was pre-empted.

CW renewed shows with literally less than 1/3 of Arrow's numbers this year, and the main cast is signed for seven seasons.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

I always liked Laurel but didn't necessarily agree with the storylines they would give her. They tried their damnest to put off her evolution to Black Canary for some reason. Her "island" is now of course useless imo but her real "island" should've been in play when the show began. Losing her boyfriend and her sister at the same time along with them cheating together on her was island material. We shouldn't have been introduced to her at CNRY, we should've been introduced to her at a dojo/gym where she was training, something that helped with her anger. Then delve into her professional life as a lawyer. But they wanted her to be the usual damsel.

Even if they did S1 the same, s2 should've opened with her starting her training instead of still holding her back.

Oh, I would've loved that. I'm okay with how they worked with her in S1-S2, but I'll agree this would've had more potential. I mean, they showed us in S1 that she was capable of holding her own (she fought off thugs several times, even saved Oliver and Tommy in that club, and she fired a shotgun at the assassin who came to kill that little boy), but they didn't do much with it.