Arrow Arrow Season 3 Episode 14 the return

[Arrowshieldfan]

Do you guys think we're done with the bio weapon?

people wants the flashback to reflect the present day. I suspect the bioweapon is what Ra's will be using to target cities. We yet to know what Ra's master plan is

 

[Kar]

I really don't think Ra's has some grand destroy the city plan. At least I hope not. Starling City has been hit like 3 times since the show started. It's getting old. I liked Ra's initial plan of just hitting up the city because of Sara's killer. It didn't seem completely random or forced. It made sense for his paths to cross with Ra's but him using the bioweapon makes no sense unless they want to use the "Batman Begins" idea which I ****ing hope not.

 

[Mikelus]

Laurel/Quentin relationship is horrible and I don't know how this will be repair

Nah, Quentin loves her, he will forgive her. He's not against Laurel as a vigilante, which was a nice surprise and the second one, the first person to call her Black Canary! t: It was the first time the name was used, Sara was just the Canary.

The whole reason why people enjoyed seeing those two share the same screen together was because Felicity's character brought a fresh atmosphere of comedy and relief for Oliver's usual tension-filled world, where nearly every other woman normally has a grudge or disdain for him.lol

So to make Felicity fall under that same category is like undoing on what made Felicity such a well loved character in the first place.

Berlanti & co seem to love their whiny females, after what they've done with Laurel, Thea, Felicity... I'm a little worried about Supergirl, we'll see.

That would be awesome. It would definitely help Arrow out as well. Allow them to retcon villains that failed to satisfy the first time around. Maybe show a new side to some characters we already know. Make Thea the Arrow instead or something cool like that. Plenty of room to experiment.

Thea the Arrow? You're fired!

If they do a Flashpoint, they could go really crazy and do some reversals:

- Tommy as the Dark Archer

- Shado, badass international vigilante

- Helena, a hero as the Huntress

The problem is that is just temporary, once Barry decides to fix it, the original timeline will be restored, but they could keep a change or two I guess.

 

[Boy Scout]

people wants the flashback to reflect the present day. I suspect the bioweapon is what Ra's will be using to target cities. We yet to know what Ra's master plan is

Probably because he doesn't have one. He wants to kill Malcolm (and probably Oliver) and avenge Sara, but I don't think he has any plans for Starling City or Team Arrow beyond that.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I really don't think Ra's has some grand destroy the city plan. At least I hope not. Starling City has been hit like 3 times since the show started. It's getting old. I liked Ra's initial plan of just hitting up the city because of Sara's killer. It didn't seem completely random or forced. It made sense for his paths to cross with Ra's but him using the bioweapon makes no sense unless they want to use the "Batman Begins" idea which I ****ing hope not.

the producer have indicated that they won't attacked the city route again. A bio weapon can be used without directly attackng entire cities. Maybe a specific group of people.

 

[Snow Queen]

Berlanti & co seem to love their whiny females, after what they've done with Laurel, Thea, Felicity... I'm a little worried about Supergirl, we'll see.

That one concerns me more because they're digging out the old stupid "she's got glasses and ties her hair back but she's really pretty, she just needs to take off her glasses and let her hair down" trope and the whole first villain is a misogynistic alien thing just doesn't work for me, at least in theory. I find it feels cheap when they start out heroes with villains who are just bigoted towards them, not sure though how to explain why.

I really don't think Ra's has some grand destroy the city plan. At least I hope not. Starling City has been hit like 3 times since the show started. It's getting old. I liked Ra's initial plan of just hitting up the city because of Sara's killer. It didn't seem completely random or forced. It made sense for his paths to cross with Ra's but him using the bioweapon makes no sense unless they want to use the "Batman Begins" idea which I ****ing hope not.

Hey, they've ripped off everything else from that series, why not?

 

[Kar]

Hey, they've ripped off everything else from that series, why not?

Sooner or later they've gotta stop or just call "Arrow" "Arrow Begins" already

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Can someone refresh my memory please, why did Malcolm killed ( by proxy ) Sara again ?

 

[Boy Scout]

So Oliver would be motivated to fight and kill Ra's in Thea's defense. Since Thea fired the arrows, she's technically responsible for Sara's death.

I don't think I ever fully understood how little sense Malcolm's plan made until this very moment.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Thank you.
Edit : did Ra's wanted Malcolm's death in the first place ?

 

[Kar]

Ra's was after Merlyn for his Undertaking plan because the League of Assassins don't like senseless killings, apparently. Merlyn, in a desperate ridiculous move, coaxes Thea into leaving with her so he can train her for 5 months and brainwash her into killing Sara which would force Ra's (who initially didn't accept Sara as a real member of the League to begin with) to locate the killer. With Thea now unknowingly under Ra's radar, Oliver is forced to protect her and stop him from killing Thea. Because for some reason Malcolm believes Oliver Queen can defeat the deadliest man alive.

With him knowing Slade was on the island, I wonder why he didn't think to use him to kill Ra's. Offer him a way out if he went toe to toe with him or something. I dunno.

 

[Loki882]

That one concerns me more because they're digging out the old stupid "she's got glasses and ties her hair back but she's really pretty, she just needs to take off her glasses and let her hair down" trope and the whole first villain is a misogynistic alien thing just doesn't work for me, at least in theory. I find it feels cheap when they start out heroes with villains who are just bigoted towards them, not sure though how to explain why.



Hey, they've ripped off everything else from that series, why not?

Actually I heard that that part of the synopsis wasn't true. I cannot find any version of the synopsis that includes that, except one (I think that it was THR). So I think that it was probably them giving their own "take" on what they saw.

 

[Loki882]

Heck Ra's has been in what, two episodes so far, and they're already having him contradict himself. The first time, he flat-out tells Nyssa that Sara "was never truly one of us" and that he wants Malcolm dead, but for violating the LOA's rules and NOT for killing Sara. But then when we see him again, it apparently IS all about Sara's death. Writers, stop having your characters change their minds on a dime with no explanation, it's really getting old.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Ra's was after Merlyn for his Undertaking plan because the League of Assassins don't like senseless killings, apparently. Merlyn, in a desperate ridiculous move, coaxes Thea into leaving with her so he can train her for 5 months and brainwash her into killing Sara which would force Ra's (who initially didn't accept Sara as a real member of the League to begin with) to locate the killer. With Thea now unknowingly under Ra's radar, Oliver is forced to protect her and stop him from killing Thea. Because for some reason Malcolm believes Oliver Queen can defeat the deadliest man alive.

With him knowing Slade was on the island, I wonder why he didn't think to use him to kill Ra's. Offer him a way out if he went toe to toe with him or something. I dunno.

Thank you for the catch up.
I had forgotten about angry Ra's for the undertaking, now everything is clear again.

 

[Boy Scout]

I'd like to examine Malcolm's plan.

Why would he believe that his barely trained and mentally impaired daughter would be capable of killing a fully trained assassin?

Why would he kill an assassin to begin with? He would be (and probably was) the first person suspected to be responsible. Wouldn't it be better to stay under the radar?

Why would he choose to kill Sara, of all people? She is closely connected to Team Arrow and the lover of Ra's al Ghul's daughter. He chose the one assassin that is closely and personally connected to the two groups that have both the means and the motivation to take him down - separately or together. He could have easily been killed or captured before now.

Why did he believe that Oliver was capable of killing Ra's? He barely - barely - stopped Malcolm. What challenge would he pose to Ra's Al Ghul?

 

[Loki882]

Why would he assume that Oliver would just let him go on the vague promise that "he could protect Thea" or that "no prison could hold him" instead of the more sensible options of:

A. Oliver kills him.
B. Oliver lets Nyssa or the LOA kill him.
C. Oliver cripples him and hands him over to the cops, or ARGUS. He already did that with Slade.

Why would he believe that Oliver could beat Ra's if he (Malcolm), a former League member, Ra's student, and the guy who kicked Oliver's ass three separate times back in S1, couldn't?

If by some miracle Oliver does manage to kill Ra's, does Malcolm just assume that Nyssa won't come after him, despite her motivations being personal/emotional? Or that Oliver wouldn't then come after him?

Why is he just hanging out in Starling City, in plain site? It's the one place where BOTG groups would think to look for him.

Why are we putting way more thought into this than the writer's apparently did? It's starting to give me a headache.

 

[Kar]

I'd like to examine Malcolm's plan.

Why would he believe that his barely trained and mentally impaired daughter would be capable of killing a fully trained assassin?

Why would he kill an assassin to begin with? He would be (and probably was) the first person suspected to be responsible. Wouldn't it be better to stay under the radar?

Why would he choose to kill Sara, of all people? She is closely connected to Team Arrow and the lover of Ra's al Ghul's daughter. He chose the one assassin that is closely and personally connected to the two groups that have both the means and the motivation to take him down - separately or together. He could have easily been killed or captured before now.

Why did he believe that Oliver was capable of killing Ra's? He barely - barely - stopped Malcolm. What challenge would he pose to Ra's Al Ghul?

I find myself trying to make this work in my head the way I did with Slade's motive in season 2. "Well, mirakuru DOES make you go crazy, so I GUESS he could still want revenge over his crush 5 years later." At least with Slade's I can work with "okay I might actually be pissed too if I was sunken to the bottom of the ocean."

But Malcolm's plan just gets dumber and dumber. Mind you, I thought it was the coolest idea ever when it was first revealed in "The Climb" until I really thought about it. Still, managed to let it slide with the "Malcolm is just REALLY desperate and not thinking rationally" but now with Team Arrow working with him? Nah, plan sucks. Completely. What if during these 5 months training Thea Ollie was killed fighting some other battle? It's totally possible.

 

[Loki882]

Slade's motivations at least have the excuse that the super-serum tends to drive you nuts. It also happened with Roy and even Isabel to a degree. Or he HAD that excuse until the writers added that "I hated you even BEFORE the Mirakuru" line that makes ZERO sense and contradicts EVERYTHING that we'd seen in their previous interactions. However Malcolm, he's apparently just stupid. And he only gets away with it because the people opposing him are even more stupid than he is.

 

[Kar]

They should just get Waller to do an airstrike on the League's hideout. Boom!

 

[Loki882]

Hell she was willing to nuke an entire city full of innocent people to stop like 20 guys who apparently can be killed by simple arrows and grenades. So carpet bombing Nanda Parbat, yeah that sounds like a Waller-tactic to me. Why use a scalpel when a buzz saw will do the trick?

 

[Snow Queen]

Actually I heard that that part of the synopsis wasn't true. I cannot find any version of the synopsis that includes that, except one (I think that it was THR). So I think that it was probably them giving their own "take" on what they saw.

Oh thank goodness.

I'd like to examine Malcolm's plan.

Why would he believe that his barely trained and mentally impaired daughter would be capable of killing a fully trained assassin?

Why would he kill an assassin to begin with? He would be (and probably was) the first person suspected to be responsible. Wouldn't it be better to stay under the radar?

Why would he choose to kill Sara, of all people? She is closely connected to Team Arrow and the lover of Ra's al Ghul's daughter. He chose the one assassin that is closely and personally connected to the two groups that have both the means and the motivation to take him down - separately or together. He could have easily been killed or captured before now.

Why did he believe that Oliver was capable of killing Ra's? He barely - barely - stopped Malcolm. What challenge would he pose to Ra's Al Ghul?

Thought this through more than the writers did, clearly.

 

[coluanprime]

As much as seeing old Tommy, Laurel, Thea, Diggle, Felicity was nostalgic, what really hit me in those was when we went back to the Queen Mansion. That set was such an important place during the first two seasons and unlike the rest of the characters, it hasn't been seen at all this season. There was a definite sense of, "wow, we're home" to those scenes.

Slade's motivations at least have the excuse that the super-serum tends to drive you nuts. It also happened with Roy and even Isabel to a degree. Or he HAD that excuse until the writers added that "I hated you even BEFORE the Mirakuru" line that makes ZERO sense and contradicts EVERYTHING that we'd seen in their previous interactions. However Malcolm, he's apparently just stupid. And he only gets away with it because the people opposing him are even more stupid than he is.

I rationalize it in the sense that the line was just showing that the Mirakuru had warped his memories too.

 

[coluanprime]

delete

 

[Kar]

We have got to stop doing the writers' jobs for them.

 

[ardee]

What really happened here......

What did they go to the island for? To put Slade back in his cage?

This seemed like a very dry episode. Nothing too negative but nothing really happened besides the secrets. I hope it picks up next week.