Arrow Arrow Season 3 Episode 14 the return

[Snow Queen]

What really happened here......

What did they go to the island for? To put Slade back in his cage?

This seemed like a very dry episode. Nothing too negative but nothing really happened besides the secrets. I hope it picks up next week.

Because something about conquering fear and apparently it was the only place and Malcolm let Slade out to make them have to survive and stuff.

 

[Bats1690]

What really happened here......

What did they go to the island for? To put Slade back in his cage?

This seemed like a very dry episode. Nothing too negative but nothing really happened besides the secrets. I hope it picks up next week.

Not exactly sure how you don't know when it was specifically stated in the episode. They went to the island (or were actually sent there by Malcolm) so that they could regain their killer instinct, or in Thea's case become a killer and gain that killer instinct. Why did Malcolm want them to do this? Because the only way to even have a chance of taking down Ra's is to eliminate your fear because Ra's prays on that weakness and to have that killing intent.

Malcolm was the one who let Slade out because he was hoping Oliver and Thea would kill him so they could become the cold blooded killers they needed to be in order to take on Ra's and the League.

 

[Human Torch]

I find it odd they had only one guard on duty. I mean, I get that they only had two inmates there, but one would think it wise to have the guards outnumber the inmates.

 

[zenith16]

I'd like to examine Malcolm's plan.

Why would he believe that his barely trained and mentally impaired daughter would be capable of killing a fully trained assassin?

Why would he kill an assassin to begin with? He would be (and probably was) the first person suspected to be responsible. Wouldn't it be better to stay under the radar?

Why would he choose to kill Sara, of all people? She is closely connected to Team Arrow and the lover of Ra's al Ghul's daughter. He chose the one assassin that is closely and personally connected to the two groups that have both the means and the motivation to take him down - separately or together. He could have easily been killed or captured before now.

Why did he believe that Oliver was capable of killing Ra's? He barely - barely - stopped Malcolm. What challenge would he pose to Ra's Al Ghul?

Why would he assume that Oliver would just let him go on the vague promise that "he could protect Thea" or that "no prison could hold him" instead of the more sensible options of:

A. Oliver kills him.
B. Oliver lets Nyssa or the LOA kill him.
C. Oliver cripples him and hands him over to the cops, or ARGUS. He already did that with Slade.

Why would he believe that Oliver could beat Ra's if he (Malcolm), a former League member, Ra's student, and the guy who kicked Oliver's ass three separate times back in S1, couldn't?

If by some miracle Oliver does manage to kill Ra's, does Malcolm just assume that Nyssa won't come after him, despite her motivations being personal/emotional? Or that Oliver wouldn't then come after him?

Why is he just hanging out in Starling City, in plain site? It's the one place where BOTG groups would think to look for him.

Why are we putting way more thought into this than the writer's apparently did? It's starting to give me a headache.

hmmm why is every one repeatedly forgetting the video tape of thea killing sara that will activate on out to the web if Malcolm isn't around to reset it cause he's dead ?

that a mayjor reason Ollie is hold back going through this stupidness cause cause he's worried about that . cause two elements will come down up on thea it's Nyssa who went after her the first time to et to Malcolm cause Diggle made ollie over look her threat after he told her that thea is is Malcolm love child with his word of wisdom moment at a terrible time & couldn't be bothered to think "hey she kinda threatened my boss's sister", "I should keep a eye on her" no he went on packing field gear they wouldn't be using that time & didn't remember fact he was a former body guard til after brick gave him a shiner over his left eye.

the other people that would be after thea would be the law most like captain lace who's eve more likely to see the video if it makes it out to the web


the dam video is the problem til that's dealt with oliver has to dace to Malcolm tune other wise he would have done that stuff of ether killing him or letting Ras have him. he can't do ay of that stuff cause of the video . also if he had mae to do so before finding out about the video it would still head out to the web after Malcolm death thea will still have Nyssa after her.

the issue here is protecting thea and the problem is the video ras want Malcolm fine that's not the problem it's what Malcolm set up if he him self dies that's the problem ollie has issue with . Cause he doesn't know how to stop it. stupidly.

 

[Boy Scout]

I didn't forget it. The existence of the video doesn't negate any of my points.

 

[Seb]

Zenith, the major issue with the video is that Ollie was making dumb decisions regarding Malcolm even before he saw the video. It's similar to the way Thea did a 180 on Malcolm before finding out he drugged her into murdering Sara. The writers often have people acting bizarrely before they have the information that would make them act that way. As soon as the video was revealed I was totally on board with Ollie wanting to protect Malcolm, but in the Magician he had absolutely no reason to save him and every reason to want him dead.

 

[zenith16]

I didn't forget it. The existence of the video doesn't negate any of my points.

I wasn't talking about you, I mean the person that answered you he gave reasons why Oliver didn't do certain action's to your point question's but the reason ollie can't make a move is due to the video. other he would have done those action's, he can't til that video is destroyed. you were used as a reference point cause he answered you. but all that he stated can't be done til that video is destroyed other wise there's on point. Oliie is stuck til the video is destroyed the solution is to destroy the video.

to solve the problem it's to put a virus o the web to destroy the video as soon as it activates let Ras have Malcolm. Nyssa won't come after thea problem solved

 

[zenith16]

Zenith, the major issue with the video is that Ollie was making dumb decisions regarding Malcolm even before he saw the video. It's similar to the way Thea did a 180 on Malcolm before finding out he drugged her into murdering Sara. The writers often have people acting bizarrely before they have the information that would make them act that way. As soon as the video was revealed I was totally on board with Ollie wanting to protect Malcolm, but in the Magician he had absolutely no reason to save him and every reason to want him dead.

yeah I'm a ware but it's too late to fix that crap story wise. but the real issue is the video. Oliver 's only dancing to the tune Malcolm playing cause of it Ras doesn't care for Oliver other wise & training under Malcolm isn't working.

Destroy the stupid video that incriminates thea. they have a hacker for crying out loud. the issue is what happens after Malcolm death which is why Oliver still playing this stupid game . it's Nyssa that will be the problem after malcom death which why he want's Malcolm alive to avoid the video being leaked .

Which will have both the law ( captain Lance ) & Nyssa after thea.

 

[kguillou]

I actually really liked this episode, focusing on Ollie, Thea and revisiting Slade Wilson. I also really liked the flashbacks, it was nice to see Tommy and the younger versions of everyone again. The only...problem I have and I'm probably the only one but I feel like at this point in the flashbacks, Oliver's experience level isn't quite earned. When I saw him jumping down from ceilings and firing pistols and taking down China White, I was sort of like "Since when did Oliver become THIS badass?" I mean, yeah we've seen him train with Slade on the island and stuff, but his experience level doesn't feel quite earned to me yet. Am I the only one?

 

[Boy Scout]

Nope.

 

[Kar]

That's my question with the Hong Kong flashbacks. It seems odd the government would recruit a 23 year old with a little bit of training? Unless they were training Ollie while he was with them for the first 5 months in Hong Kong.

 

[zenith16]

That's my question with the Hong Kong flashbacks. It seems odd the government would recruit a 23 year old with a little bit of training? Unless they were training Ollie while he was with them for the first 5 months in Hong Kong.

they weren't .he's lacking a lot of stuff field operatives should have btw oh but Waller may have wanted that that way cause she wanted him to do what she wants not be the operative he should be also technically he's more of her attack dog / assassin . cause she like to have control over people. but I wouldn't say he's skilled cause of that mistake he made with that drug dealer he killed he left alof of evidence with touch that guy bare handed and tossing him over the stars rail i that mansion house party .

here's a lot off with his training alot . don't forget about what happen to katana's husband team up in the ware house balcony with how fast they were discovered & killed I would't say alot of of them were trained well in spy craft. I stated this befor my self he's not a operative i the sense he should & be Also no waller shouldn't be training him or have put him out in the field like that it's also why he was out smarted by slade when the latter came to starling which shouldn't have happened if it was properly trained by a agency. but it is what it is .

 

[luis4u]

easy to notice Thea's stunt double.

 

[Human Torch]

That's my question with the Hong Kong flashbacks. It seems odd the government would recruit a 23 year old with a little bit of training? Unless they were training Ollie while he was with them for the first 5 months in Hong Kong.

I think they wanted him because he's 'dead' first and foremost. Can't trace anything back to a dead man. But he'd proven some skills to Waller (Saving the jet from Fyers, Defeating Ivo/Slade) which made him worth her time.

 

[SpideyVille]

I kind of feel like Oliver was part of a proto-Suicide Squad mission/team, only instead of threatening to kill the person, they are coerced by threats against their families.

After all, Waller seems to be in charge of a division of the government/army that is set to do things in secret that the government could never legally sign off on.

 

[Kar]

I think they wanted him because he's 'dead' first and foremost. Can't trace anything back to a dead man. But he'd proven some skills to Waller (Saving the jet from Fyers, Defeating Ivo/Slade) which made him worth her time.

That's what I figured too, but still it just seemed risky to me.

 

[zenith16]

I kind of feel like Oliver was part of a proto-Suicide Squad mission/team, only instead of threatening to kill the person, they are coerced by threats against their families.

After all, Waller seems to be in charge of a division of the government/army that is set to do things in secret that the government could never legally sign off on.

nah this version of waller does that to almost all her people, other wise that supposed under cover agent in cortal Maltese wouldn't have tried to have Diggle family killed as he tried to escape the life as Diggle was mad at that guy for it. Remember what he told diggle why he was doing it & why he wanted out. I don't think Ollie was a prototype it's just how Waller treats people that work for her.

the book the suicide squad how ever was a programe made for a better way to be rid of the world worst criminal's in what they claim was a legal it was both a death sentence as well as a way for them to make amends for the crimes .



Task Force X
Task Force X is a secret agency and supervisory organization of the United States government consisting of Checkmate, Argent and the Suicide Squad (the latter also known by the agency's name). Task Force X was created to fill the void left by the retired Justice Society of America and handled superhuman-related affairs.

The Suicide Squad is an elite government strike force operating under Task Force X. They are expendable agents who go on life-threatening missions, usually covert in nature. There have been several incarnations of this team. The original was a group called the Suicide Squadron in World War II lead by Rick Flag, Sr.. The second group were high-profile monster hunters lead by Rick Flag, Jr.. Amanda Waller reactivated the program during Legends as a team of imprisoned super-criminals. They serve in exchange for reduced sentences. These super-criminals are sent on top-secret missions, with explosive devices that can be detonated by Waller if they disobey orders. This allows the government to deny their existence, as any mission can be called a "random super-villain attack." In addition to government work, they have sometimes operated independently.

That's what I figured too, but still it just seemed risky to me.

as I said before & I've said this in older post's prior to me talking to you. most agency's take some one like Oliver and they take him to further training to make him better as a operative. they don't put someone like him out like that "that fast." he should be better in both in tactic's & over all cause its rule to improve some like him if they are oi to do that at all .

but it seems Waller didn't care to have that cause she wanted someone to control in the worst way possible with threats to their family etc. if he doesn't do what she wants he'll be killed & no one will ever know. he's disposable. other agency wouldn't do that.

 

[godisawesome]

Pretty good episode. One of the better ones for this season, and on par with a lot of the best season one episodes. But, considering we were revisiting both a major part of Season Two with Slade and continuing the show's tradition of one flashback heavy episode before the finale segment of the season begins, it kind of underperformed.

First, the flashbacks. As others have said, their was a lot of nostalgia and emotional gut punches to these scenes, especially in light of Tommy's revealed connection to Thea. Seeing Tommy in a larger role for this flashback was pretty cool, especially since it heartened back to the period of time in the first season where the "drama" angles were relatively low key and relied predominantly on just a quiet, sincere use of chemistry between Tommy and Laurel to fill the CW quote. The video log from Arthur Queen was excellent, and did a good job of tying things together between this season and the first. In a sense of Oliver's emotional payoff, this episode matched its predecessors in The Odyssey and The Promise.

But, except for the quick line by China White about killing Maseo's family, we had no real big emotional moments for the other flashback characters, in part because the flashback was still more concerned with setting up the Season One status quo. Blackthorne got to rock again, but we had nothing to really match Slade's vengeance on Wintergreen and rescue of Oliver in The Odyssey or Slade's breakdown and Sara's panic at it from The Promise. And while Kelly Hu as China White is always fun, I feel they should be emphasizing how dangerous she is at this point in Oliver's training. Tatsu fought her, I want to see her destroy Oliver. As a result, this episode still felt mostly like just another rising action segment of the flashbacks, not like a game changer that was in its predecessors.

On the island, Thea coming to grips with her father's manipulations was executed well, but as others have noticed, it still feels a little tainted by the somewhat schizo plotting of the entire Ollie as Malcolm's proxy vs Ra's story. Seeing Oliver and Thea actually get along is cool, but yeah, this would have been a better if it had been done quicker. And Manu Bennett did a great job with what little they gave her, but that's the issue: they didn't really give him anything. The best part with him was the last talk with Oliver when Bennett got to portray Slade with some development and a kind of calm menace but respect.

I think they wanted to show him in a transitional state, but failed to give him enough character moments to let it shine through. Stuff like him saying that if Ollie had told him what happened to Shado they could have avoided the season two plot, or him only half-heartedly using his promise as a threat, or him telling Thea she'd earned the right to kill him, all that was spread around to suggest some kind of maturation and return to sanity. But only the last scene, where Bennett's body language got to be so relaxed and calm, and professional, and he got to kind of confide in Ollie in a relaxed tone, all that was so much clearer and well done.

And we needed more of that.

 

[p4poetic]

-Not enough Slade. He didn't get enough to do and didn't really change at all. Guggenheim was talking about this "closing a chapter" on his and Oliver's relationship, and I didn't see it. It didn't look like ANYTHING was really resolved between them this episode. Also I was disappointed that he just got locked up again at the end.

-This episode makes Thea's sudden, inexplicable hatred of Malcolm last episode look even more nonsensical. If they had just waited ONE episode, then her turning on him would have made so much more sense.

-The flashhbacks are becoming ever more tedious, and no add ridiculous to them as well.

-Some good acting this episode as well. Particularly from Paul Blackthorne and Willa Holland, well done.

I wouldn't even mind the small amount of Slade that we got if they resolved the storyline...but they didn't even do that.

I heard Slade will be making more appearances so I'm guessing it'll be than.

 

[coluanprime]

Regardless of plot, this episode really showed of how good Arrow and its actors are at doing Flashbacks. Stephen Amell and Willa Holland were essentially playing different characters this episode and pulled it off very well. Paul Blackthorne and Katie Cassidy were able to give similar interactions different meanings. The production crew also made sure everyone looked like they did in Season One. Felicity, for example wore her hair the way she did in S1 and wore a S1 Felicity outfit. They Merlyn mansion was the same set they used in ep12. It was very well done.

 

[Human Torch]

Tommy looked a lot more ripped than I remember him.

I think it's an unintentional giveaway. I'm still thinking Tommy will be back as their "Red Hood". t:t:

 

[Golgo-13]

I liked this past ep. I'm sorry to say but maybe it was because modern day Felicity was absent, so it didn't feel like a drag...

 

[Loki882]

It would have been nice to get at least one scene of her being the only one talking any kind of sense, at least to me. She seems to be the only one with brains/common sense now after all.

 

[Prison Mike]

Felicity is annoying. The only one I missed was Diggle though.

 

[Loki882]

I'll take annoying over face-palming stupid any day of the week. "Hey guess, working with Malcolm is a REALLY bad idea." It's a testament to how dumb this idea is that Felicity essentially having a "well no ****" opinion still makes her look like the smartest person in the room.