Assuming Fox Will be Making this Film, What Outcome do You Hope for?

[danoyse]

Apparently, this thread is in need of a time out...considering all of the childish behavior going on around here.

I suggest you all stop wasting your time accusing each other of trolling and hurling insults, as it's wasting all of our time, and it's not worth the further infractions that will be going out to you if this continues.

Agree to disagree and move on.

 

[starscream22]

Kinberg's behind both Days of Future Past and FF. Pretty sure they'll have similar tones. And I'll take a serious tone over jokes every other minute (Iron Man 3, Thor The Dark World).

Yeah, I'd take a serious tone over lame comedy too but the actual trade off is 14 years of poor continuity, more overexposure of Wolverine, cheap looking mutants (Bishop, Warpath, Sunspot) and vacuum cleaner looking Sentinels in DOFP and a ever changing script writer a mute director and nothing but controversial casting rumors in a not so warm welcomed FF reboot..?

Plus there's nothing proving that this reboot will have a serious tone. So lame humor for Summer release is likely. Difference from IM3 and Thor2 is that this is going to bomb.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yeah, I'd take a serious tone over lame comedy too but the actual trade off is 14 years of poor continuity, more overexposure of Wolverine, cheap looking mutants (Bishop, Warpath, Sunspot) and vacuum cleaner looking Sentinels in DOFP and a ever changing script writer a mute director and nothing but controversial casting rumors in a not so warm welcomed FF reboot..?

Plus there's nothing proving that this reboot will have a serious tone. So lame humor for Summer release is likely. Difference from IM3 and Thor2 is that this is going to bomb.

I love serious comic movies as much as light hearted ones. But the fantastic four doesn't fit the "serious bill" imo what so ever. They dont kill and their biggest theme overall is family....

The fantastic four should never be a "prometheus" type film. Its just not that kinda franchise

 

[DrCosmic]

I have absolutely no interest in seeing the ultimate universe on film... Im fine with a few influences like we saw in avengers , spiderman etc... But even then its about only 20% at most ultimate.

I despise that universe and have no desire to see a young fantastic four and satyr doom on screen

I think the Ultimate influence is a lot stronger than that. The origins are almost exclusively the Ultimate origins, pseudo science, and appearances, rather than the 616 ones whenever there's a difference. The Ultimate universe is the standard for modernizing these concepts.

Now I could definitely go without Satyr Doom, I'll give you that.

Ok, you are right in that you don't *have* to assume anything but what you choose to from whatever information there is at hand.

All we do know is the reboot was announced 4 years ago with Micheal Green hired to write the sceenplay.

Trank was assigned in July last year, with Jeremy Slater now named as writing the script shortly after that (Trank co-writing iirc), and in January of this year Millar was praising up the script Trank had been working with.

Apparently not quite up to scratch though as in February THR reported Seth Grahame-Smith was signed on to 'polish' it. We then had scheduled shoots announced that never happened, and last month we got news Simon Kinberg was brought in to overhaul the script Millar had been praising...There's been a number of casting rumours, but nothing confirmed.

So...You can assume what you want from all that. If you want to assume Fox were just waiting for the right pitch all this time that's fine by me.

I look at how far back they announced the reboot, what has happened since, and choose to assume differently.

As long as you make the same assumptions about Marvel and Thor, go for it. If not, your'e being inconsistent, and thus, illogical.

For me, when people polish a script, I don't then go and say "They're just reacting to movie X" as opposed to doing the same thing dozens of films have done bringing in multiple writers for polish. It doesn't make any sense to add a new motivation to an established practice that has a known motivation. If you do that just in this case, it shows you are biased and not using logical deduction. Which is fine, but when you say "we can only assume" and then proceed to give some heavily biased conclusions, I scoff.

Ok,I wanted to go back to these points as the lobbying for the Ultimate version of the FF is somewhat disturbing for those of us that simply disliked it (and it being evident the studio may well be taking that route).

Now the 2nd of those declarations is subjective (and one I disagree with) but I thought I'd check out the actual sales, seeing as the 'proven' Ultimate Fantastic Four no longer even has it's own book.

Now UFF did indeed start off well (as did all the Ultimate books), easily outselling the regular 616 title up until it hit the mid 30's or so in issue numbers, then it steadily fell behind the 616 books, eventually being cancelled after Ultimatum (source for this info can be found here: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

So you have a book that did well for about 3 years worth of issues, declined rapidly, and is now cancelled, against one that's still going after 50 years (sales for all comics today are still terrible compared to what they were doing before the boom & bust. Today's best numbers would have been cancellations back then).

So Yeah...with those numbers in mind I know which one I'd personally be looking at considering as the 'proven' formula. Fad's come and go, class lasts. 50 years and still going is something proven to last. 3 good years and now cancelled? Says it all.

I'm well aware of the decline of the Ultimate Universe, but the fact that all the Marvel films still use the Ulitmate Universe as the standard for origins and appearances says that them being cancelled isn't the end of the story. It says that those concepts and stories are more popular and relevant to modern society than the 60s versions of those stories. It says that if they are adapting an origin, they'd want to adapt the one that outsold everything else when it was out. And if they are going to adapt 3-6 stories, they'd probably want to pick those 6 stories from those 3 years that outsold everything.

Portraying 616 as "class" and Ultimate as "fad" is kinda funny, but I wonder how long you can hold on to that perspective as the Ultimate Universe keeps coming back in the films, becoming the standard, and in turn affecting the comics.

Does anyone ask for the classic Stan Lee Spider-Man? Hulk? Thor? X-Men? What makes you guys think that the Stan Lee Fantastic Four is the standard all of a sudden?

Apparently, this thread is in need of a time out...considering all of the childish behavior going on around here.

I suggest you all stop wasting your time accusing each other of trolling and hurling insults, as it's wasting all of our time, and it's not worth the further infractions that will be going out to you if this continues.

Agree to disagree and move on.

The poll itself is baiting. Either they do a good classic storyline, or they do a bad failing storyline. No other hope figures in the discussion.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I think the Ultimate influence is a lot stronger than that. The origins are almost exclusively the Ultimate origins, pseudo science, and appearances, rather than the 616 ones whenever there's a difference. The Ultimate universe is the standard for modernizing these concepts.

eh.. you're confusing "modern updates" with "the Ultimate universe" The Ultimate Universe in theory and nature is very much suppose to be a retelling of Marvel Heroes in Today's world. Which is exactly what the movies are doing. However, the personalities, majority of the stories, and the spirit of each character is very much 616...

Pseudo Science has been applied to the very nature of the 616 universe as well, explaining it a bit more to make it make more sense in today's world isn't ultimate exclusive what so ever...

All of the costumes thus far... aside from Hawkeye and Fury are far more heavily 616 based in concept and inspiration. Just with a modern day twist. It's easy to get confused with the "Ultimate Universe" because that was also it's mission and schtict. But that being said... The costumes are still very heavily 616 influenced. Other than hawkeye and Fury.. most don't resemble ultimate all that much.

There's a few borrowed elements.. but it's still ultimately a small percentage thus far


[/QUOTE]

 

[DrCosmic]

eh.. you're confusing "modern updates" with "the Ultimate universe" The Ultimate Universe in theory and nature is very much suppose to be a retelling of Marvel Heroes in Today's world. Which is exactly what the movies are doing. However, the personalities, majority of the stories, and the spirit of each character is very much 616...

Pseudo Science has been applied to the very nature of the 616 universe as well, explaining it a bit more to make it make more sense in today's world isn't ultimate exclusive what so ever...

All of the costumes thus far... aside from Hawkeye and Fury are far more heavily 616 based in concept and inspiration. Just with a modern day twist. It's easy to get confused with the "Ultimate Universe" because that was also it's mission and schtict. But that being said... The costumes are still very heavily 616 influenced. Other than hawkeye and Fury.. most don't resemble ultimate all that much.

There's a few borrowed elements.. but it's still ultimately a small percentage thus far

The issue is not that they're both modernizations, but that the MCU uses the precise modernizations employed by the Ultimate Universe.

Fury and Hawkeye pretty much 100% Ultimates. That's pretty significant, especially since none of the characters are 100% 616.

MCU Iron Man is a military contractor with a strong connection to SHIELD and a public identity with celebrity status. That's not just a random modernization, that's taking the story and setting of Ultimate Tony Stark and simply using a 616 armor design instead. That's not "20%" Ultimate, that's 20% 616. If there were no other modernizations like current 616, or if there were other modernizations that were just like Ultimate Tony Stark other than Ultimate Tony Stark and MCU Tony Stark, I could see your point that it's just a function

Captain America's WWII uniform, wingless modern day uniform, aliens HYDRA villains, adult protective Bucky, Howling Commando association, use of firearms and meeting with aged version of his WII love interest are all totally Ultimate Universe. They used the 616 personality, but that's about it. That's 20% 616.

Thor is a helmetless guy who doesn't speak olde English whom people thought was crazy until Asgard came to Earth. Black Widow is a non-powered SHIELD agent. Hulk is an essential Avenger, with Banner employed by Fury as a scientist. SHIELD starts the Avengers, basically. Should I even get into Amazing Spider-Man?

This the ultimate ultimate universe, with few exceptions. The only thing they take from 616 is the personalities rather than the edgier Ultimates ones when they differ, and costumes created after the otherwise up to date Ultimate Universe went downhill. That's significant, but the fact that the setting, science, background, supporting cast and relationships come from the Ultimate universe rather than the 616 lets you know how well done the Ultimate Universe was that when someone wants to make movie adaptation, that's what they look to, and not any of the other modernizations that have been done.

To attempt to get back on topic:

That's why any studio wanting to successfully adapt the Fantastic Four would naturally want to go with the UFF instead of retread the ground of Story's FF "But with more Kirby dots." Doing the same story as a failed film only with a different tone isn't a path to success, as far as we've seen.

 

[Lord]

Hawkeye isn't 100% percent Ultimate though, he doesn't really use guns like ultimate Hawkeye usually does.

 

[DrCosmic]

True, I guessed there were some differences, which is why I said 'pretty much.' I also somehow doubt he has a family quite like Ultimate Hawkeye, don't know why though. And hopefully he never takes up the bullseye on the forehead costume when it seemed like he started using guns almost exclusively.

 

[bubbadoom]

The issue is not that they're both modernizations, but that the MCU uses the precise modernizations employed by the Ultimate Universe.

MCU Iron Man is a military contractor with a strong connection to SHIELD and a public identity with celebrity status. That's not just a random modernization, that's taking the story and setting of Ultimate Tony Stark and simply using a 616 armor design instead. That's not "20%" Ultimate, that's 20% 616. If there were no other modernizations like current 616, or if there were other modernizations that were just like Ultimate Tony Stark other than Ultimate Tony Stark and MCU Tony Stark, I could see your point that it's just a function

Captain America's WWII uniform, wingless modern day uniform, aliens HYDRA villains, adult protective Bucky, Howling Commando association, use of firearms and meeting with aged version of his WII love interest are all totally Ultimate Universe. They used the 616 personality, but that's about it. That's 20% 616.

To attempt to get back on topic:

That's why any studio wanting to successfully adapt the Fantastic Four would naturally want to go with the UFF instead of retread the ground of Story's FF "But with more Kirby dots." Doing the same story as a failed film only with a different tone isn't a path to success, as far as we've seen.

Seems much of the failure of the Story FF was the attempts to use the Ultimate version as a guide - how about giving the real FF a chance this time.

The 616 Iron Man was a weapons designer with ties to SHIELD, much like in the movies...

What "alien HYDRA villains" are you speaking of...?

Much of the modernizations seen in the Ultimate Comics that have made their way into the movies would have happened anyway - it's only logical that outdated things like the Don Blake Alter Ego for Thor would have been dropped from the movie - hell Lee and Kirby pretty much did that for a good year or more during their run of Thor, and Simonson did officially during his.

 

[DrCosmic]

I disagree on the failure of the Story's FF. Much of the failure was trying to do a new modernization. Reed was the way he was because they were trying to find a new way to explain why a 40+ year old mega-super genius wasn't already on top of the world in every way. Going Ultimate would have fixed that problem. A lot of things were like this: new failed modernizations, not Ultimate stuff. Victor van Damme wasn't just Dr. Doom in name only, he was Victor Van Damme in name only as well. Perhaps you can detail the Ultimate parallels if you see some I haven't. I didn't read a lot of the later Ultimate FF comics.

Story's FF took the 616 current ages, it took the spaceflight cosmic radiation origin (using the 616 origin is big!), it took the 616 independent Baxter Building issue, the 616 money issues, the 616 version of Reed and Victor's rivalry, the 616 personalities, 616 familial theme, and likely some other things. The story in story's FF was totally 616. From Ultimates they took "Doom has powers" (with a very different doom and different powers), and Sue Storm was a scientist (not even the same type of scientist)... and that's pretty much it. It wasn't ultimate. It was giving the 616 (you say "real") FF a chance. Modernizing them in a different way than Ultimate FF failed. It will again if Fox doesn't learn what Marvel and Sony did from the Ultimate Universe. This is the definitive modernizing of these stories. You do these stories with the 616 spirit, and you will have a great beloved story. If you don't, you won't. X-Men faked the funk for two films by focusing on Wolverine, so it made Fox think they could do a different modernization and still find success, but they haven't been able to regain that yet in X-Men, and it totally failed with FF. I think they've learned their lesson now.

616 Iron Man always "designed weapons" (like Iron Man itself) for the Avengers and SHIELD but Ultimate was the first to modernize him and his company into a real life thing: A military weapons contractor. And while most every hero has a connection with SHIELD, Ultimates was the first to put him on a first name basis with Nick Fury. That's ultimate, not general inevitable modernization.

The Alien HYDRA villains refers to how Ultimate WWII Cap was setting up the Chitauri invasion, while MCU WWII Cap was setting up a Chitauri-in-name-only invasion, as opposed to fighting Nazi super soldiers ala 616 WWII Cap. I was wrong about them going by "HYDRA" in Ultimate WWII though.

It's true that the modernizations of the Ultimate comics were necessary, but the Ultimate Universe did them first and well, and other successful things don't just do new modernizations (as Story's FF tried, as we discussed), they do the Ultimate modernizations. Even 616 has taken some of them. That's not just inevitability, that's using the best known modernization because it was and continues to be wildly successful.

This is not to say they don't take *anything* from 616, generally the softer personalities you see in 616 as opposed to the edgier Ultimates ones, as I said earlier. And since Ultimates didn't do solos much, they pull in 616 things as supporting cast for the heroes. But the story is so Ultimates it's not funny, and there's good reason for that, because everytime someone tries to do something modernized different than Ultimates ala TIH or Story's FF, it flunks. Hard.

 

[bubbadoom]

In Strange Tales #135 [the first Nick Fury story] Stark is a member of SHEILD before Fury as this is the story Nick joins - so they are not on a "first name bases" yet - but in the '60's most of the characters would refer to each other by their last name - not "Mr. Stark" but just Stark, etc. which was more of a common manor of speech of the time perhaps.

From the first Iron Man story in Suspense #39 Stark is shown providing weapons for the military - that's why he was in 'Nam in the first place. In Suspense #77 there was a story line that involved Senate hearings and threats to his loosing his military contracts. Senator Byrd says on page 12 "...I have cancelled ALL his government contracts for defense weapons..."


I will admit I am no expert of the "Ultimate" Marvel books - I bought the first 12 issues of the UFF and hated it so much I seldom if ever touched another "Ultimate" comics - but the FF movie seemed to borrow too much for my tastes.
Doom's origin being tied to the FF's is UFF, as is Doom with super powers.
Doom is also not a dictator but a business man, which may not be 100% UFF but it's closer to that than 616FF.
The entire relationship of Reed and Sue is more UFF, especially the "nerd" Reed which is 180 degrees from the Lee/Kirby Reed.

For me these were the major problems with the Story FF, other than things like having a bad script, a small budget, and an inexperienced director - things that can be corrected while still staying true to the Lee/Kirby FF.

 

[DrCosmic]

You got me on Stark, good call, I hadn't read back that far.

I can understand aversion to the UFF, they're the furthest away from the 616 story-wise, I think. So if you loved the 616 FF, the UFF would be a big turnoff, I get that. But Doom having powers is the only thing that came from the FF, and again, with that, the way he got his powers, what powers he got, most importantly what he did with them, totally different. And while Ultimate Doom may not be the ruler of Latveria before the FF forms, he certainly was afterward. He was never a businessman or anything like a businessman at all. That was a new modernization, no closer to Ultimate than 616.

The Lee/Kirby Reed was not a nerd, but the modern Reed often is, especially before the Illuminati stuff. He's not the two fisted sort of Doc Savage man of science he was back in the 60s when intelligence and strength were uniformly valued. Ultimate Reed was an absolutely incredible man of science like 616 Reed, something Movie Reed never really gave us. The Movie Reed's relationship with Sue, built around a previous breakup was totally random and new, nothing to do with Ultimate FF at all.

Bad modernizations, not Ultimate. I have no doubt that they can do a better version of the FF in the Lee/Kirby vein, but what I'm saying is... it'll be very similar to what we've had before. The only noticeable change will be better dialogue. I don't think that's a good idea or even a reasonable request.

 

[Lord]

True, I guessed there were some differences, which is why I said 'pretty much.' I also somehow doubt he has a family quite like Ultimate Hawkeye, don't know why though. And hopefully he never takes up the bullseye on the forehead costume when it seemed like he started using guns almost exclusively.

I actually enjoyed Ultimate Hawkeye a lot, possibly more so than the 616 version, i think it made sence for the character to have the bow and arrow as his favorite weapon, but still mostly use guns.

 

[Filmfreak]

I personally don't care about this silly rights thing. I just want to see a good movie this time. And I didn't even hate the previous two as much as other people I think. Don't really like the idea of crossovers though. I prefer good standalone films any day.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The issue is not that they're both modernizations, but that the MCU uses the precise modernizations employed by the Ultimate Universe.

Fury and Hawkeye pretty much 100% Ultimates. That's pretty significant, especially since none of the characters are 100% 616.

MCU Iron Man is a military contractor with a strong connection to SHIELD and a public identity with celebrity status. That's not just a random modernization, that's taking the story and setting of Ultimate Tony Stark and simply using a 616 armor design instead. That's not "20%" Ultimate, that's 20% 616. If there were no other modernizations like current 616, or if there were other modernizations that were just like Ultimate Tony Stark other than Ultimate Tony Stark and MCU Tony Stark, I could see your point that it's just a function

Captain America's WWII uniform, wingless modern day uniform, aliens HYDRA villains, adult protective Bucky, Howling Commando association, use of firearms and meeting with aged version of his WII love interest are all totally Ultimate Universe. They used the 616 personality, but that's about it. That's 20% 616.

Thor is a helmetless guy who doesn't speak olde English whom people thought was crazy until Asgard came to Earth. Black Widow is a non-powered SHIELD agent. Hulk is an essential Avenger, with Banner employed by Fury as a scientist. SHIELD starts the Avengers, basically. Should I even get into Amazing Spider-Man?

This the ultimate ultimate universe, with few exceptions. The only thing they take from 616 is the personalities rather than the edgier Ultimates ones when they differ, and costumes created after the otherwise up to date Ultimate Universe went downhill. That's significant, but the fact that the setting, science, background, supporting cast and relationships come from the Ultimate universe rather than the 616 lets you know how well done the Ultimate Universe was that when someone wants to make movie adaptation, that's what they look to, and not any of the other modernizations that have been done.

To attempt to get back on topic:

That's why any studio wanting to successfully adapt the Fantastic Four would naturally want to go with the UFF instead of retread the ground of Story's FF "But with more Kirby dots." Doing the same story as a failed film only with a different tone isn't a path to success, as far as we've seen.

Sorry, I disagree Greatly...

They're trying to modernize the 616 stories while also cramming 50 years of comic history into a much smaller movie series... it's exactly why Tony went public right away rather than the Body Guard route...It is also why they still payed passing reference to the bodyguard history.

Tony Stark Still had ties to the military, Shield, he still got a piece of shrapnel in his heart and was prisoner in a cave with Yinsen, Stane was ripped from the comics for the most part, as was Pepper and Happy.. that's all 616 imo, couple that with his comic armors.. and Iron Man 1 wasn't "ultimized" all that much. Iron Man 2 was basically an adaptation of "Armor Wars and Demon in a Bottle", Warmachine's history, all thrown into one. Nothing really "ultimate" about that film at all, then of course Im3 was pretty much exclusively "Extremis" story arch. calling Iron Man in the movie universe even 20% Ultimate influenced is incredibly generous.

Captain America's WWII costume is of course ultimate based, but that's honestly about where it stops. Cap's 2 films are so heavily 616 based that he's probably the most 616 based out of them all...

Hulk is sorta in his own "movie-verse" at the moment.. but even then, many elements are still borrowed from 616.

Thor as well is a bit of his own movie verse.. sprinkled with MANY 616 references, Hell... even the Rock Monster straight out of Thor TDW is ripped from the books. There's very very little involvement there.

Black Widow in the opening Avengers was even facing one of her foes in the books....

The only heavily Ultimate Influences in the MCU are a few costume decisions, Hawkeye, Fury, and SHIELD bringing the Avengers together... but also, lets not forget they included Loki as there first villain... ANOTHER 616 influence.

I stand by my assessment. This is much more of a 616 (accumulation of 50 years of comics) adaptation than anything "Ultimate"

 

[DrCosmic]

Sorry, I disagree Greatly...

They're trying to modernize the 616 stories while also cramming 50 years of comic history into a much smaller movie series... it's exactly why Tony went public right away rather than the Body Guard route...It is also why they still payed passing reference to the bodyguard history.

Tony Stark Still had ties to the military, Shield, he still got a piece of shrapnel in his heart and was prisoner in a cave with Yinsen, Stane was ripped from the comics for the most part, as was Pepper and Happy.. that's all 616 imo, couple that with his comic armors.. and Iron Man 1 wasn't "ultimized" all that much. Iron Man 2 was basically an adaptation of "Armor Wars and Demon in a Bottle", Warmachine's history, all thrown into one. Nothing really "ultimate" about that film at all, then of course Im3 was pretty much exclusively "Extremis" story arch. calling Iron Man in the movie universe even 20% Ultimate influenced is incredibly generous.

Captain America's WWII costume is of course ultimate based, but that's honestly about where it stops. Cap's 2 films are so heavily 616 based that he's probably the most 616 based out of them all...

Hulk is sorta in his own "movie-verse" at the moment.. but even then, many elements are still borrowed from 616.

Thor as well is a bit of his own movie verse.. sprinkled with MANY 616 references, Hell... even the Rock Monster straight out of Thor TDW is ripped from the books. There's very very little involvement there.

Black Widow in the opening Avengers was even facing one of her foes in the books....

The only heavily Ultimate Influences in the MCU are a few costume decisions, Hawkeye, Fury, and SHIELD bringing the Avengers together... but also, lets not forget they included Loki as there first villain... ANOTHER 616 influence.

I stand by my assessment. This is much more of a 616 (accumulation of 50 years of comics) adaptation than anything "Ultimate"

I disagree as well. It looks like you've cherry picked the 616 influences and said "there's many more too," even when there aren't. Several of the characters you mentioned I gave extensive Ultimate influences. Even when Stark's relationship with the military and SHIELD is the one defined in the Ultimate universe and not the more generic one from 616, you call that a 616 influence.

And it's not just the appearance, but the basic set up of 'how these characters fit in the real world' is Ultimate. From there, they do take 616 stories and line them up with those givens, peeling off the things from 616 that don't fit in the modern world as defined by the Ultimate comics, (just like the Ultimate comics did) but the foundation, the premise of the MCU is basically the Ultimate Universe, which includes many 616 references, of course.

That's why going with UFF is a good idea, because even if you only can acknowledge that the appearance and core premise is what's taken from Ultimates in the successful MCU... that does require a younger FF. It just makes more sense in the modern day for a supergenius coming out of nowhere doing things that have never been done before to be 21 and not 51. The rest follows from that. That doesn't mean you won't have tons of 616 references, like the ones you pointed out, but best modernization is the Ultimate Universe.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I disagree as well. It looks like you've cherry picked the 616 influences and said "there's many more too," even when there aren't. Several of the characters you mentioned I gave extensive Ultimate influences. Even when Stark's relationship with the military and SHIELD is the one defined in the Ultimate universe and not the more generic one from 616, you call that a 616 influence.

And it's not just the appearance, but the basic set up of 'how these characters fit in the real world' is Ultimate. From there, they do take 616 stories and line them up with those givens, peeling off the things from 616 that don't fit in the modern world as defined by the Ultimate comics, (just like the Ultimate comics did) but the foundation, the premise of the MCU is basically the Ultimate Universe, which includes many 616 references, of course.

That's why going with UFF is a good idea, because even if you only can acknowledge that the appearance and core premise is what's taken from Ultimates in the successful MCU... that does require a younger FF. It just makes more sense in the modern day for a supergenius coming out of nowhere doing things that have never been done before to be 21 and not 51. The rest follows from that. That doesn't mean you won't have tons of 616 references, like the ones you pointed out, but best modernization is the Ultimate Universe.

we agree to dissagree. The stuff i list really is a vast majority over-all more so than the ultimate universe... (which i'm also guessing you're a fan of and apparently more knowledgeful of than the 616....)

the fact alone that majority of the MCU characters personality wise and characteristics are 616 is already a massive chunk. Like i said... 20% ultimate is generous

 

[DrCosmic]

That chunk isn't exactly non-Ultimate though. And the issue is not the percentage the issue is that using the Ultimate premise and costume decisions (on things that have not been updated awesomely post-Ultimate) yields success. That means a young FF is the smart move, or at the very least, the consistent move.

Perhaps you think that the premise, where the character fits into our real world is only 5% of the 'thing.' Okay, whatever. If every successful film is making that 5% Ultimate, Fox would be wise to do so as well.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I wouldn't consider it a smart move if i know for a fact i have and will have no desire to see an ultimate fantastic four film.aand i know Im not the only one.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Here are the primary key characteristics that I feel the FF needs that UFF screwed up.

1. Ben and Reed need to have had a long, deep, meaningful friendship prior to their transformation. They didn't have that in UFF. They knew each other when they were 10 and then were reunited just prior to the accident (14 years later?).

Imagine you knew someone when you were 10 and then you met back up with them 14 years later. You wouldn't know each other at all.

2. Doom HAS to be Doom - not the AWFUL character from UFF. I can't even begin to describe all the things that were wrong with that character.

3. Galactus needs to be Galactus - not the swarm of UFF.

4. Sue and Johnny should be younger than Reed and Ben and not geniuses. Johnny should be street-smart and mechanically talented with a history of racing and other thrill-seeking activities while being nothing like Reed in the brains department. Sue should be intuitive and much better at dealing with people and public relations than Reed, but she's not a scientist.

5. Reed should be a veteran and strong leader and adventurer - not a geek who has been sheltered in a think-tank his whole life.

6. The incident leading to their powers should be a result of Reed pushing boundaries beyond what others think is safe. It should be a risk that he takes on because of his extreme curiosity and willingness to take risks in the interest of learning something.

As long as those elements are maintained, I'm okay with UFF influences for minor details, but I'm concerned that if they use UFF as a primary source rather then the 50 years of true source material we will get an FF that bears little resemblance to the real FF as we did in UFF.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Here are the primary key characteristics that I feel the FF needs that UFF screwed up.

1. Ben and Reed need to have had a long, deep, meaningful friendship prior to their transformation. They didn't have that in UFF. They knew each other when they were 10 and then were reunited just prior to the accident (14 years later?).

Imagine you knew someone when you were 10 and then you met back up with them 14 years later. You wouldn't know each other at all.

2. Doom HAS to be Doom - not the AWFUL character from UFF. I can't even begin to describe all the things that were wrong with that character.

3. Galactus needs to be Galactus - not the swarm of UFF.

4. Sue and Johnny should be younger than Reed and Ben and not geniuses. Johnny should be street-smart and mechanically talented with a history of racing and other thrill-seeking activities while being nothing like Reed in the brains department. Sue should be intuitive and much better at dealing with people and public relations than Reed, but she's not a scientist.

5. Reed should be a veteran and strong leader and adventurer - not a geek who has been sheltered in a think-tank his whole life.

6. The incident leading to their powers should be a result of Reed pushing boundaries beyond what others think is safe. It should be a risk that he takes on because of his extreme curiosity and willingness to take risks in the interest of learning something.

As long as those elements are maintained, I'm okay with UFF influences for minor details, but I'm concerned that if they use UFF as a primary source rather then the 50 years of true source material we will get an FF that bears little resemblance to the real FF as we did in UFF.

 

[DrCosmic]

Here are the primary key characteristics that I feel the FF needs that UFF screwed up.

1. Ben and Reed need to have had a long, deep, meaningful friendship prior to their transformation. They didn't have that in UFF. They knew each other when they were 10 and then were reunited just prior to the accident (14 years later?).

Imagine you knew someone when you were 10 and then you met back up with them 14 years later. You wouldn't know each other at all.

2. Doom HAS to be Doom - not the AWFUL character from UFF. I can't even begin to describe all the things that were wrong with that character.

3. Galactus needs to be Galactus - not the swarm of UFF.

4. Sue and Johnny should be younger than Reed and Ben and not geniuses. Johnny should be street-smart and mechanically talented with a history of racing and other thrill-seeking activities while being nothing like Reed in the brains department. Sue should be intuitive and much better at dealing with people and public relations than Reed, but she's not a scientist.

5. Reed should be a veteran and strong leader and adventurer - not a geek who has been sheltered in a think-tank his whole life.

6. The incident leading to their powers should be a result of Reed pushing boundaries beyond what others think is safe. It should be a risk that he takes on because of his extreme curiosity and willingness to take risks in the interest of learning something.

As long as those elements are maintained, I'm okay with UFF influences for minor details, but I'm concerned that if they use UFF as a primary source rather then the 50 years of true source material we will get an FF that bears little resemblance to the real FF as we did in UFF.

...and the Avengers should assemble on their own instead of being lackeys for SHIELD and Captain America doesn't use handguns like some common soldier.

While Ultimate Doom was ultimately unappealing, the plain fact is that nobel-peace-prize-level physicists aren't out in Desert Storm as opposed to the lab, much less wait until they're in their 50s to take their big risks. Neither is being a girlfriend an acceptable or heroic occupation. Neither do modern teenagers tool around with hot rods. The 1960s premises simply don't make a lick of sense in 2014, and no competent filmmaker will say "Who cares about reality? Let's just use the premise that the kids loved in 1960!"

What has been true of every successful adaptation is that they have changed the premise to be one that feels natural in the modern world, but kept the core spirit of the characters. This tack to adaptation works, and wins the fans who will either forget, or outright deny that this is anything but 80-100% faithful. Try convincing the average comic fan, or even filmgoer that Nolan's Batman wasn't the true Batman. The same will happen if they do FF right.

But if you're looking for people to have the same occupations and histories and skillsets as they did in their 1960s debuts, you're waiting for a failed film that I doubt Fox is foolish enough to make.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

...and the Avengers should assemble on their own instead of being lackeys for SHIELD and Captain America doesn't use handguns like some common soldier.

.... you've got to be kidding me... it makes far less sense for Loki to suddenly have beef with the rest of the avengers.. and they all randomly unite. Just like it makes little to no sense in reality (where these films try to take place) for a man to be a WWII hero taking the nazi's head on with nothing more than a vibranium shield (in fact if you actually even cared to pay attention to the comics, Cap and Bucky using guns retcon happened well before the film)

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

the plain fact is that nobel-peace-prize-level physicists aren't out in Desert Storm as opposed to the lab,

This is a ridiculous statement. Great men who achieve great things don't lock themselves in a lab. There are plenty of people in Afghanistan at this moment who very well may win Nobel Prizes in the future. My son has a friend who is in ROTC, a chemistry major and he was one of the brightest kids in a HS graduating class of over 500.

much less wait until they're in their 50s to take their big risks.

I never said Reed should be in his 50's. 30-35 would be a good range for me.

Neither is being a girlfriend an acceptable or heroic occupation.

Again, you put words in my mouth and then say something that has nothing to do with what I posted. Of course Sue can have an occupation, but she shouldn't be a prodigy science genius. How realistic is that? The original Sue was a regular woman of her time and the new Sue should be a regular woman of her time. Not a super-genius.

Neither do modern teenagers tool around with hot rods.

Let me introduce you to Mario Alvarez II. He's been racing since he was 4 and there are many more like him on the AMA road-racing circuit.

http://www.younggunracer.com/

But if you're looking for people to have the same occupations and histories and skillsets as they did in their 1960s debuts, you're waiting for a failed film that I doubt Fox is foolish enough to make.

Did you even read my post? I thought I was very clear that there were certain key elements of the characters that needed to be maintained but I never said they needed the same occupations and histories. I simply said their basic natures shouldn't be randomly and unnecessarily changed as they were in UFF.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In the simplest of terms to prevent my words from being twisted: The Fantastic Four needs a good update. UFF is not a good update.

It's that simple.