Batman Begins Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

[BatLobster]

Count me in with those who aren't a fan of the ending of TDKRises. Even though I understood why Nolan chose to end it that way, which makes sense in the context of that whole trilogy. Plus the ending would've worked better if they hadn't killed Rachel in TDK. And having Bruce spend the rest of his life with her instead of Selina. Afterall at the end of Rises the day has come for Bruce to no longer need Batman so he and Rachel could be together. But apparantly it still does since Blake is taking over. I still wouldn't have been a fan if it went that way either, b/c I see Batman/Bruce as a tragic character. A happily ever after ending for Bruce isn't my cup of tea. Plus crime could erupt anytime in Gotham. As long as there's good there's also evil. Idk how Bruce believes Gotham's in good hands with Blake in charge. A cop without none of Bruce's training, intellect, and skills isn't enough, imo. I'd rather it ended differently without having Bruce retire twice. But it is what it is.

I think the fact that Rachel was dead made the TDKR ending better. The fact that he is able to start anew with Selina signifies that he's moved on from Rachel and can put the past behind him.

If he lived happily ever after with Rachel it'd be a bit too sugary for Batman. The fact that Rachel never lives to see the day that Bruce is able to walk away from the cowl gives the overall story a nice bittersweet touch. I think you need the sadness of Rachel's death in the middle of the story to help the happy ending feel a bit more earned.

 

[Squaremaster316]

Even more themes and layers getting discovered with repeat viewings

Henri Ducard: Theatricality and deception are powerful agents.

Later...

Bruce Wayne: You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die.
Henri Ducard: [from behind Bruce Wayne] But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?
[Bruce turns around to face Ducard]
Henri Ducard: Are his methods supernatural?
Bruce Wayne: [to Ducard] Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, "Ra's"?
Henri Ducard: Surely, a man who spends his nights scrambling over the rooftops of Gotham wouldn't begrudge me dual identities?


It's so awesome the way they tightly wove a theme together like this. Ghul teaches Bruce all about deception and theatrics while pulling a huge one himself, and it's only due to Bruce's time with Ghul and understanding him on some visceral level that he was able to put two and two together.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Even more themes and layers getting discovered with repeat viewings

Henri Ducard: Theatricality and deception are powerful agents.

Later...

Bruce Wayne: You're not Ra's al Ghul. I watched him die.
Henri Ducard: [from behind Bruce Wayne] But is Ra's al Ghul immortal?
[Bruce turns around to face Ducard]
Henri Ducard: Are his methods supernatural?
Bruce Wayne: [to Ducard] Or cheap parlor tricks to conceal your true identity, "Ra's"?
Henri Ducard: Surely, a man who spends his nights scrambling over the rooftops of Gotham wouldn't begrudge me dual identities?


It's so awesome the way they tightly wove a theme together like this. Ghul teaches Bruce all about deception and theatrics while pulling a huge one himself, and it's only due to Bruce's time with Ghul and understanding him on some visceral level that he was able to put two and two together.

Theatricality and deception are clearly a theme in BB, but I doubt it takes repeat viewings to find that one, since it was - as many other themes in BB - verbally explained in several occasions.

What I find is a theme that's not easy to see is 'compassion.' The way Ra's al Ghul taught Bruce about it, the ay Bruce refused to learnt Ra's lesson at first and the way he finally learnt Ra's lesson at the end of the movie.

When talking about compassion:

RA'S/DUCARD: Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share.
BRUCE: That's why it's so important. It separates us from them.

Bruce gets compassion, as not killing, is important because it separates him from the criminals.

Then, later:

BRUCE/BATMAN: I saved your life.
RA'S: I warned you about compassion, Bruce.

Ra's makes his point again when he admits having taken advantage of Bruce's compassion.

And then, on the monorail, Batman seems to be about to kill Ra's:

RA'S: Have you finally learned to do what is necessary? [he refers to killing]
BATMAN: I won't kill you. ... But I don't have to save you.

So, Batman doesn't learnt to kill his enemy, but he learns how to leave his compassion out and leave his enemy to die. A compassionate person feels they have to save people that are about to die. Specially Batman, who believes in justice and not revenge. But in this case Bruce decides to forget about his compassion, he has learnt that lesson from Ra's, although the script makes it sounds he is the same as before.

Many have argued that Batman couldn't save him. If that had been the case, he would have probably said it: I can't save you. But his choice of words reveals his true intentions: I don't have to. Grammatically speaking 'not have to' reveals that you have the chance, but it's not mandatory to do something. Of course the movie doesn't address this point as it would contradict Bruce's reluctance to learn lessons that involve another person'
s death.

 

[the last son]

I absolutely loved watching that Bale audition. Just wished Nolan didn't pat himself on the back every interview for his batman. Anyways the voice was perfect in that tape.

 

[shauner111]

I absolutely loved watching that Bale audition. Just wished Nolan didn't pat himself on the back every interview for his batman. Anyways the voice was perfect in that tape.

What do you mean?

 

[the last son]

Just acting as if he and Bale invented changing voices. It's been around since live action began for Batman.

 

[shauner111]

I don't think he was saying they invented anything. He was saying Batman needed to have a different voice from Bruce entirely. Usually Keaton or Conroy or whoever will just lower their voice but it still sounds like Bruce...at least to me it does. Bale went the extra mile to make sure the voice was deepened more, to the point where you could never tell who it was.

That's what I got from that.

 

[Brother Jack]

Nolan was doing nothing but commending Bale for the voice and taking no credit for it in that video. It sounds to me like it was mostly Bale's idea.

 

[the last son]

Nolan still acts as if he elevated Batman to new levels and heights that could never be reached without him. Maybe it's just the way he talks, but he just seems so full of himself. Seems like the type of guy to act as if his stories were better than the originals.

 

[Squaremaster316]

Nolan still acts as if he elevated Batman to new levels and heights that could never be reached without him. Maybe it's just the way he talks, but he just seems so full of himself. Seems like the type of guy to act as if his stories were better than the originals.

They're at least up there with the best that has been written about Batman in the comics

 

[shauner111]

Nolan still acts as if he elevated Batman to new levels and heights that could never be reached without him. Maybe it's just the way he talks, but he just seems so full of himself. Seems like the type of guy to act as if his stories were better than the originals.

But he did elevate Batman to new levels, and there's a good possibility that on film, Bats never would have reached those levels. Probably not.

He never once said his stories were better than the originals. I know it sounds like im defending everything about Chris, but I just don't know what you're talking about here.

In my opinion, his stories are just as good and worthy as some of the best in the source material.

 

[titansupes]

^ Correct, sir.

 

[the last son]

I think his stories will be reached. Personally give us a new trilogy with heart/Mr. Freeze. crime drama/black mask, thriller mystery/riddler and action/ Joker, theres a new trilogy right there that can easily top his trilogy. Easily.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I don't think he was saying they invented anything. He was saying Batman needed to have a different voice from Bruce entirely. Usually Keaton or Conroy or whoever will just lower their voice but it still sounds like Bruce...at least to me it does. Bale went the extra mile to make sure the voice was deepened more, to the point where you could never tell who it was.

That's what I got from that.

When in the bat-cave with Vicky (B89), Batman's voice sounded nothing like Bruce's. But it wasn't so overdone it sounded like throat cancer either, thank God.

This idea of the voice changing has been there for decades before Nolan came to scene.

 

[shauner111]

I think his stories will be reached. Personally give us a new trilogy with heart/Mr. Freeze. crime drama/black mask, thriller mystery/riddler and action/ Joker, theres a new trilogy right there that can easily top his trilogy. Easily.

Sounds a little too simple to just name a few villains and say there's your trilogy...itll be just as good! It's not how it works. You have to create a story that's worth telling, that's different from what we've seen in terms of themes. What made Nolan's movies great was the directing, the cast, performances, issues they addressed, timing, etc. They CAN create a new trilogy with the characters you named and those genres...but it's extremely difficult to create a good movie out of it or something fresh. We've seen the crime drama for example.

 

[Filmfreak]

Whenever I think of a superhero origin -in movies that is- Batman Begins is the first that always springs to mind. The way they handled the character and his motivations while did an in-depth analysis of his alter ego symbolism and his emotional state through various points in his life I think reached perfection.

But for the second one I'd go with X-Men First Class even if it's not entirely one person's origin story it captures the early stages of Xavier and Magneto and the relationship between them amazingly well. Next is Iron Man by a very healthy margin and the rest were pretty much just good for me.

 

[the last son]

I agree. I think Captain America First avenger is up there as far as character motivations. Dude has the heart of a full grown man, but the body of a small one and makes it clear even when he is small he just wants to help stop bad people. He proved he was willing to die for his cause and was awarded a super serum. I'd rank that #2 behind begins as far as motivations.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

I wouldn't say it's the best, but it's up there. I thought Captain America's was the best.

 

[Hordakfan]

Begins and Superman TM followed by IM

 

[redfirebird2008]

Seems like the type of guy to act as if his stories were better than the originals.

Well, maybe they were. Every interview I've seen of him, he seems pretty humbled to have had a chance to work on a character with such a strong history.

 

[The_Manhunter]

It is close, I only like Man of Steel more. I guess you can count Avengers as well, as it is the origin of the team.

 

[Travesty]

Just got done watching this. It's probably been 3-4 years since I've watched it. I still absolutely love this movie.

It's crazy how different this Gotham looks. Everything looks aged. Wayne Enterprise looks older inside, which gives off a sense of history within the company. GCPD also looks aged. A stark contrast to what we see in TDK, where the supposed same buildings look brand new.

I'm gonna try to watch the rest of the trilogy this week.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Just got done watching this. It's probably been 3-4 years since I've watched it. I still absolutely love this movie.

It's crazy how different this Gotham looks. Everything looks aged. Wayne Enterprise looks older inside, which gives off a sense of history within the company. GCPD also looks aged. A stark contrast to what we see in TDK, where the supposed same buildings look brand new.

I'm gonna try to watch the rest of the trilogy this week.

Yeah, Gotham definitely has a different look here. I actually preferred it. I rewatched all three films just a little while ago. It's easy to forget just what a fantastically immersive viewing experience they are.

 

[Ryan]

Begins still remains the best origin story for me by a large margin. If I had to pick second, I'd say Captain America the First Avenger. When I first saw Cap, I thought that was the exact tone they should have done for Superman.

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Superman: The Movie, with Batman Begins as a close second. I mean, Superman is the origin movie that inspired all the other origin movies, and it was made long before it became this obligatory thing.

Begins deserves a lot of credit for being the first live action Batman origin and also being the movie to inspire pretty much every other realistic and gritty reboot that followed. It drives me nuts when "Dark Knight trilogy" fans act like only the movies with "Dark Knight" in the title matter. There wouldn't be a Dark Knight without Begins setting the style and tone for it.