The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[ABleedingCorpse]

I think a lot of people get confused with WHO/WHAT Batman is. He's a symbol. Not a person. He's a Legend. Not a person. The Dark Knight Rises..but it doesn't mean a person rises.

BATMAN...WON'T...DIE!

Bruce Wayne on the other hand...different story. He is just a man. A person. A body. He can die. He will die. If he doesn't die, he will NOT continue as Batman. That's what I feel the point of TDKR will be. Things will go into a direction, Bruce as Batman will do what he can to save the Gotham and it's people. Bane will be defeated. But how things build up, and how they end will be surprising. From the looks of things, I'm guessing the PEOPLE of Gotham will be the ones who truely RISE, following their Dark Knights lead to make Gotham a better place from criminals like Bane, The Joker and so on.

Batman WON'T die...but that doesn't mean he has to continue as is. I feel Bruce Wayne will have closure. The spine of Nolan's Bat-films is that Bruce is working to bring Gotham back to sanity, to justice and to make Gotham a better place. With this being the final, that will happen and Bruce will finally feel free of his regrets, anger and loss. He will succed with what he set out to do. And Bruce Wayne, as Batman, will end.

 

[filmboy33]

I think a lot of people get confused with WHO/WHAT Batman is. He's a symbol. Not a person. He's a Legend. Not a person. The Dark Knight Rises..but it doesn't mean a person rises.

BATMAN...WON'T...DIE!

Bruce Wayne on the other hand...different story. He is just a man. A person. A body. He can die. He will die. If he doesn't die, he will NOT continue as Batman. That's what I feel the point of TDKR will be. Things will go into a direction, Bruce as Batman will do what he can to save the Gotham and it's people. Bane will be defeated. But how things build up, and how they end will be surprising. From the looks of things, I'm guessing the PEOPLE of Gotham will be the ones who truely RISE, following their Dark Knights lead to make Gotham a better place from criminals like Bane, The Joker and so on.

Batman WON'T die...but that doesn't mean he has to continue as is. I feel Bruce Wayne will have closure. The spine of Nolan's Bat-films is that Bruce is working to bring Gotham back to sanity, to justice and to make Gotham a better place. With this being the final, that will happen and Bruce will finally feel free of his regrets, anger and loss. He will succed with what he set out to do. And Bruce Wayne, as Batman, will end.

I could not agree more with you. I think Bruce Wayne will die but Batman will live on in some form. Either in the flesh with a new Batman or as a symbol to the citizens of Gotham of what one man can accomplish toward bringing their city back from the brink.

 

[Brother Jack]

The biggest thing that deters me from the Batman dying idea is Joker's line in TDK: "I think you and I are destined to do this forever". Now that isn't to say that Batman and Joker's unending battle is to be explored directly in Rises, because as we know, that isn't the case. But the character still exists, and Batman will too.

 

[KalMart]

The biggest thing that deters me from the Batman dying idea is Joker's line in TDK: "I think you and I are destined to do this forever". Now that isn't to say that Batman and Joker's unending battle is to be explored directly in Rises, because as we know, that isn't the case. But the character still exists, and Batman will too.

Or...Joker could have just guessed incorrectly.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I don't believe Bats/Wayne will die in TDKR, I think we will get a scene at the end of the movie showing Batman retired or something in that nature.

This will be the reason the WB will reboot the franchise after Nolan is done directing the last movie. My 2cents.

 

[Nevincer]

At this point, nobody knows what Nolan wants to do to him other than Nolan himself and those working on the film. That he's going to die is nothing but speculation with about as much depth as the speculation that Harley Quinn and Riddler would be in TDK. I also do wish that people would keep that discussion confined in the topic that's dedicated to it, as some of us here are sick of reading about it all together.

This is absolute nonsense and you know it. Nolan ruled out the Riddler in an interview himself and Harley Quinn requires the presence of the Joker in some major form, which he has also ruled out.

On the other hand, when Nolan keeps emphasizing he's ending the trilogy and there's a reboot on the horizon, the proposition of Batman dying as a storytelling choice has so much more basis than any of what you've proposed that your comparison is simply insulting. It's okay for you to dislike the idea, or think it's a misinterpreted speculation that is jumping to conclusions, but frankly I'm sick of the attitude and exaggeration from some of you here on this subject.

Stepping on the Hype and theorizing about the end of Batman as a storytelling choice in these forums is almost comparable to suggesting equal rights on a white supremacist forum, the reactions from some of the members here are that harsh, close-minded and filled with hyperbole. It's come to the stage that I'm actually going to give up on discussing this, even in this thread, because whilst I'd love to with like-minded people it seems like a community taboo So whatever.

 

[Silver Souper]

Or...Joker could have just guessed incorrectly.

Exactly. Wasn't the only thing Joker was wrong about (boat passengers, snore)

 

[Bathead]

Catwoman ain't a villian . At worse she is a flaawed person but she ultimately has redeeming qualities and is a good person . I consder her more of a hero than say Huntress

Wrong. She may not be evil per se, but she is definitely a thief and a criminal. Not an appropriate sub for Batman.

 

[Kynergy]

This is absolute nonsense and you know it. Nolan ruled out the Riddler in an interview himself and Harley Quinn requires the presence of the Joker in some major form, which he has also ruled out.

On the other hand, when Nolan keeps emphasizing he's ending the trilogy and there's a reboot on the horizon, the proposition of Batman dying as a storytelling choice has so much more basis than any of what you've proposed that your comparison is simply insulting. It's okay for you to dislike the idea, or think it's a misinterpreted speculation that is jumping to conclusions, but frankly I'm sick of the attitude and exaggeration from some of you here on this subject.

Stepping on the Hype and theorizing about the end of Batman as a storytelling choice in these forums is almost comparable to suggesting equal rights on a white supremacist forum, the reactions from some of the members here are that harsh, close-minded and filled with hyperbole. It's come to the stage that I'm actually going to give up on discussing this, even in this thread, because whilst I'd love to with like-minded people it seems like a community taboo So whatever.

Great post DH, so true.

 

[IamtheBatman]

Not to Die

 

[Bat-Mite]

This is absolute nonsense and you know it. Nolan ruled out the Riddler in an interview himself and Harley Quinn requires the presence of the Joker in some major form, which he has also ruled out.

On the other hand, when Nolan keeps emphasizing he's ending the trilogy and there's a reboot on the horizon, the proposition of Batman dying as a storytelling choice has so much more basis than any of what you've proposed that your comparison is simply insulting. It's okay for you to dislike the idea, or think it's a misinterpreted speculation that is jumping to conclusions, but frankly I'm sick of the attitude and exaggeration from some of you here on this subject.

Stepping on the Hype and theorizing about the end of Batman as a storytelling choice in these forums is almost comparable to suggesting equal rights on a white supremacist forum, the reactions from some of the members here are that harsh, close-minded and filled with hyperbole. It's come to the stage that I'm actually going to give up on discussing this, even in this thread, because whilst I'd love to with like-minded people it seems like a community taboo So whatever.

I said TDK, not TDKR, meaning the way people were speculating about THAT movie, saying Engel/Reese would be the Riddler and generally trying to jump the gun on all the little twists Nolan might have in store, which is exactly what this is. The only real twists he had in TDK were Gordon's faked death and the switcheroo between Harvey and Rachel, and even those weren't huge because you could have figured out how they'd turn out if you'd paid close attention to the trailers (Harvey riding with Maroni, Gordon at the MCU after capturing Joker.)

Reading comprehension is nice sometimes. Leaping headlong into a rant before you've even processed the information at hand isn't. By the way, there are plenty of ways to end a film in such a way that no sequels would make sense, such as the ending of LOTR, without killing the main character. You can't really bring Frodo back to Middle Earth after he's gone to live out the rest of his days with the elves. There's also the possibility that Nolan told WB that he wouldn't do a third film unless they agreed to not set the new one in his continuity. There are plenty of possibilities available besides Batman dying, and most of the ideas being bandied about for his death are cheap imitations of V for Vendetta.

And I've even said before that I can see how Batman's death could be Shakespearean and epic in the right circumstances, but that I generally see the ideas for its execution as lazy and derivative. Now, Nolan himself may have an idea for Batman's death that is unique and groundbreaking if he has even considered such a thing, but I don't think he should do it just because "it's never been done before" or just for pure shock factor, or some perceived twist. I'm sorry, but I don't want him to pull a Shyamalan in what could potentially be the best film of the franchise, but that seems to be what a lot of people are in favor of. If Batman dies and its done solely because it's the best possible ending the story could have, then I'd be in favor of it.

 

[Sith Scotti]

Wrong. She may not be evil per se, but she is definitely a thief and a criminal. Not an appropriate sub for Batman.

And maybe thats why Batman returns because he sees that she is robbing from the mob etcccc. Or in the film she isn't a thief . Everything is speculation

 

[not_a_victim]

Or...Joker could have just guessed incorrectly.

Yeah, Joker, for all his seeming knowledge into human behavior, wound up wrong several times in the movie...

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I say to die.

BUT it won't happen.

 

[hegele]

To die. One thing I dislike about the comic book adaptation mentality is that they have to be like the canon comics... the hero must fight crime forever... indefinitely.

There has never been a good ending to a superhero franchise, they all fizzled out with bad/mediocre movies.

Killing bats is bold and frankly quite epic.

 

[Fanticon]

he won't die. it would be the biggest mistake in WB, Batman, Nolan and cinema history.

 

[Nevincer]

Reading comprehension is nice sometimes. Leaping headlong into a rant before you've even processed the information at hand isn't.

I apologize, that was stupid of me to overlook and I can see where you're coming from in that case. The rant wasn't sorerly directed at your post though, it was more about the community as a whole, as by the time that newbie came in and said he'd boycott the film I'd about had enough. I hope you don't take it personally in any way, I tend to enjoy reading your posts from time to time, but then same goes with most of the naysayers... it's the half the time irrational dismissal and silencing of other members when discussing this subject that grinds me gears, and I know you're not really one of them so again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

By the way, there are plenty of ways to end a film in such a way that no sequels would make sense, such as the ending of LOTR, without killing the main character. You can't really bring Frodo back to Middle Earth after he's gone to live out the rest of his days with the elves. There's also the possibility that Nolan told WB that he wouldn't do a third film unless they agreed to not set the new one in his continuity. There are plenty of possibilities available besides Batman dying, and most of the ideas being bandied about for his death are cheap imitations of V for Vendetta.

I agree, but I think where this comparison kind of falls with Batman is that he is not only the protagonist, he's the vehicle that drives the plot. Batman is not only what Frodo is to LOTR, he's what the One Ring is to LOTR as well, and the one ring had to be destroyed in order for LOTR to have closure.

Am I saying Batman's destruction is the meaning of the franchise? Hell no, that would be too direct a comparison, but the plot is about Bruce Wayne, and him using the "Batman" symbol to deter crime and inspire the innocent population to take back their city. Part of the mission, or the story ending, is for Bruce to succeed, meaning he no longer needs to use the vehicle that is 'Batman' to progress through the plot, but the problem with crime is we're talking about an everlasting phenomenon here... this isn't the dark side of the force, there is no one event in which Batman can truly nuetralize something like crime itself... the purpose of Batman isn't finite, but on the other hand, Bruce Wayne is. He's only human, and has a normal human lifespan, whether he dies of old age or is killed as Batman.

So I'm not saying should Bruce die, that he'd fail... surerly in generations to come, someone else would also find a way to fend off criminality, with whatever means in Gotham, be it inspired by Bruce's actions or not. But I think in this situation, to end the proganist's journey in the plot, and to truly give testament to the fact Bruce never gave up, so much so that we see on screen he died whilst being Batman, I think it could serve to be a beautiful ending... show him as a tragic character.

But yeah, there could be other beautiful ways with which to halt the series as well, don't necessarily have to have Bruce dying. I just think it's an option. Because Batman doesn't have a finite "plot", unless the protagonist that perceives the plot ceases, so there's not really anything I could think of that would make a sequel to TDKR implausible otherwise... just that nolan wants to give it a rest, people have too much respect to tamper with what nolan has done and yeah... but all that stuff is outside the realm of the actual storyline, that's all to do with the studio/production.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

he won't die. it would be the biggest mistake in WB, Batman, Nolan and cinema history.

How exactly? Batman might be a symbol but the man beneath the mask is still flesh and blood.

In the comics, Batman has stated on several occasions that his time will eventually come -- that his luck will run out. He embodies the philosophy of the Samurai (a Grand Death).

In the end, Batman knows his destiny, and knows he can't escape it unless he quits. Batman is a tragic character, and all tragic characters meet a tragic end.

 

[Sith Scotti]

I don't know 250 million is a lot of money to risk by killing off Batman .Its risky

 

[Kynergy]

I understand where Darkhunt is coming from. Constantly, I see posts on here of people saying the idea of Batman's death is impossible, dumb, wont happen, ridiculous...hell some even want to boycott it. I can understand not wanting it, that is perfectly understandable. But to say it's impossible and wont happen, is foolish. Anything could happen, he could just as easily not die. But the evidence is there to support the theory that he could die, so it makes sense to acknowledge that. And Bat-Mite, I'd also like to say I saw that post was not directed at you, so don't take it personally. You've shown consistently that you are a great contributor to this forum. But eventually there comes a breaking point, and you seemed to set it off.

 

[KRIM]

I don't know 250 million is a lot of money to risk by killing off Batman .Its risky

What exactly would they be risking? Nolan will be done with the series, and so will the cast most likely. It doesn't matter what happens in this one as it will already do big numbers and sequels won't hinge on its success.

Batman will undoubtedly be back in cinema with a new timeline. Nothing changes if Nolan's Batman dies.

 

[Sith Scotti]

There is no evidence one way or another . its speculation based on its Nolan's last film . That's it

 

[Sith Scotti]

What exactly would they be risking? Nolan will be done with the series, and so will the cast most likely. It doesn't matter what happens in this one as it will already do big numbers and sequels won't hinge on its success.

Batman will undoubtedly be back in cinema with a new timeline. Nothing changes if Nolan's Batman dies.

Batman is WB's only reliable Franchise right now . Green Lantern bombed . Superman Returns was a letdown...... You think the last film before another reboot they want to an on a downer ?

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Oh yeah I forgot to include this in my last post....Not To Die.

 

[hegele]

Batman is WB's only reliable Franchise right now . Green Lantern bombed . Superman Returns was a letdown...... You think the last film before another reboot they want to an on a downer ?

Yes. Guarantee it. WB probably wants more, but Nolan has been making a lot of money for them since Batman Begins and he wants this to be the last. WB stands to loose more alienating Nolan and continuing it with a different cast than having Nolan stick with them and rebooting.

Besides, the teaser said "THE CONCLUSION TO THE DARK KNIGHT SERIES" or something to that effect.

Batman dying is one thing, this not being the final movie is another.