The Dark Knight Rises Batman: To "Die".. or Not To "Die:?

[Rocketman]

Yeah, what happens after Batman dies?

- What if the Joker escapes from Arkham? Who can stop him?
- What if Alfred gets killed by a street punk?
- What if Catwoman gets run over by a semi?

All of these things are fair game if Batman dies. In fact, if Batman were to die in TDKR, and this is truly the final film of this Nolan-Universe, why not just kill EVERYBODY? Why not? It wouldn't hurt a single thing.

- Kill Batman
- Kill Bane
- Kill Catwoman
- Kill Alfred
- Kill Lucius Fox
- Kill Commisioner Gordon
- Kill Bill

Just have a giant bloodbath where it's raining blood and fire and piss all over Gotham.

I mean, they might as well ALL die. It's completely ludicrous.

Not everybody in Harry Potter died. Not everybody in The Lord of the Rings died... And I don't see sequels of these stories occurring anytime soon.

Just because it's the end of a saga, doesn't mean it's the end of the protagonist's life.

Hell, Neo dies at the end of The Matrix Revolutions, but the Oracle specifically states that he'll return soon, like Jesus, like a second coming.

Batman will live. Get over it.

 

[echostation]

it would be stupid as hell to kill Batman... plain and simple... nothing even remotely cool about it...

 

[DareDemon]

Yeah, what happens after Batman dies?

- What if the Joker escapes from Arkham? Who can stop him?
- What if Alfred gets killed by a street punk?
- What if Catwoman gets run over by a semi?

All of these things are fair game if Batman dies. In fact, if Batman were to die in TDKR, and this is truly the final film of this Nolan-Universe, why not just kill EVERYBODY? Why not? It wouldn't hurt a single thing.

- Kill Batman
- Kill Bane
- Kill Catwoman
- Kill Alfred
- Kill Lucius Fox
- Kill Commisioner Gordon
- Kill Bill

I mean, they might as well ALL die. It's completely ludicrous.

Not everybody in Harry Potter died. Not everybody in The Lord of the Rings died... And I don't see sequels of these stories occurring anytime soon.

Just because it's the end of a saga, doesn't mean it's the end of the protagonist's life.

Hell, Neo dies at the end of The Matrix Revolutions, but the Oracle specifically states that he'll return soon, like Jesus, like a second coming.

Batman will live. Get over it.

I don't wanna make any predictions, and I'm sure the movie will be badass unless Nolan purposely makes it bad. But Batman dying would definitely be lame.

 

[Kynergy]

Yeah, what happens after Batman dies?

- What if the Joker escapes from Arkham? Who can stop him?
- What if Alfred gets killed by a street punk?
- What if Catwoman gets run over by a semi?

All of these things are fair game if Batman dies. In fact, if Batman were to die in TDKR, and this is truly the final film of this Nolan-Universe, why not just kill EVERYBODY? Why not? It wouldn't hurt a single thing.

- Kill Batman
- Kill Bane
- Kill Catwoman
- Kill Alfred
- Kill Lucius Fox
- Kill Commisioner Gordon
- Kill Bill

Just have a giant bloodbath where it's raining blood and fire and piss all over Gotham.

I mean, they might as well ALL die. It's completely ludicrous.

Not everybody in Harry Potter died. Not everybody in The Lord of the Rings died... And I don't see sequels of these stories occurring anytime soon.

Just because it's the end of a saga, doesn't mean it's the end of the protagonist's life.

Hell, Neo dies at the end of The Matrix Revolutions, but the Oracle specifically states that he'll return soon, like Jesus, like a second coming.

Batman will live. Get over it.

How do you get from Batman dying to Nolan killing off the entire cast?

If your going to claim that Batman will live, then I'm going to claim that Batman will die. Both are possible, so, get over it.

 

[Rocketman]

Not to mention that the damn movie is called The Dark Knight Rises.
I'm pretty sure you can't rise... if you're dead.
Unless you're a zombie, or a corpse who can achieve an erection.
Or "Rising" refers to rising into the Heavens, because you're dead.
And the white light made of the bat symbol in the trailer is a symbol of Heaven, and Batman will become an angel, and rise as a symbol in Gotham because he sacrificed himself like Jesus.

 

[Doc Holliday]

it would be stupid as hell to kill Batman... plain and simple... nothing even remotely cool about it...

Yeah, because there's no plausible story line in which Batman must sacrifice himself to save the city of Gotham.

Now do I want him to die? No. Because I want him to keep being Batman. But I can definitely see where it could be a powerful moment in the story.

 

[DareDemon]

Every movie needs the Jesus storyline. Because Jesus didn't do it good enough apparently.

Catwoman could be like Mary Magdeline. (I am not going to bother looking up how to spell her name)

And Alfred is like Peter.

Mayor Garcia is Pontius Pilate.

And introducing Gordon as "Guy who helped Jesus carry the cross".

 

[Rocketman]

Batman - Bush
Joker - Bin Laden
Alfred - Dick Cheney
Lucius Fox - Colin Powell
Catwoman - Condoleeza Rice
Bane - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Ra's Al Ghul - Saddam Hussein

This is the only case where, metaphorically, I support the idea of Batman dying 100%.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Batman - Bush
Joker - Bin Laden
Alfred - Dick Cheney
Lucius Fox - Colin Powell
Catwoman - Condoleeza Rice
Bane - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Ra's Al Ghul - Saddam Hussein

This is the only case where, metaphorically, I support the idea of Batman dying 100%.

 

[DareDemon]

Boooo. I support the idea of Ahmadinejad dying. Eff that piece of crap.

Obama made govt bigger, and spends three times the amount of money daily than Bush did. And he started 3 more wars, something that was evil when Bush was in office, but a humanitarian aid now that Obama is.

Uh, but I guess I should talk about Batman. How awesome would it be if Batman beat the crap out of Ahmadinejad? hahaha. Holy Terror, Batman! Would have been a great book.

 

[DrCosmic]

Batman dying would suck. It would kinda make him seem a lot weaker than any other incarnation, lasting less than a decade before dying.

"You and I are destined to do this forever.... unless you're a huge pansy and die before I can even escape Arkham the first time".

So, you'd rather keep Batman alive so he can offscreen adventures indefinitely that we'll never see? How does dying make you seem weak?

Yeah, what happens after Batman dies?

- What if the Joker escapes from Arkham? Who can stop him?
- What if Alfred gets killed by a street punk?
- What if Catwoman gets run over by a semi?

All of these things are fair game if Batman dies.

You're overreacting, most of those things are fair game regardless of if Batman dies or not. I'm sure the movie will address how Batman's legacy and methods continue to protect Gotham after his death, which is what Ra's was trying to teach him in the first place.

In fact, if Batman were to die in TDKR, and this is truly the final film of this Nolan-Universe, why not just kill EVERYBODY? Why not? It wouldn't hurt a single thing.

It would. It would cheapen a meaningful and dramatic death. Can you imagine if after Neo died, the machines had massacred Zion. Then the death becomes pointless. Can you imagine if Leonidas died and then the persians ransacked Sparta? Now Leonidas' death isn't even the most important one in the film.

Just have a giant bloodbath where it's raining blood and fire and piss all over Gotham.

I mean, they might as well ALL die. It's completely ludicrous.

I don't think you've been paying attention to the themes of the films. Batman's goal isn't to stay alive, it's to save Gotham. If he dies in the process, he still wins, he's still strong. All is not lost if Batman dies.

Not everybody in Harry Potter died. Not everybody in The Lord of the Rings died... And I don't see sequels of these stories occurring anytime soon.

Just because it's the end of a saga, doesn't mean it's the end of the protagonist's life.

Hell, Neo dies at the end of The Matrix Revolutions, but the Oracle specifically states that he'll return soon, like Jesus, like a second coming.

So you understand that one death does not mean everyone should die, and that the end of a protagonists' life doesn't mean the end of their legacy, power and effect, but you choose not to apply those ideas to this franchise.

Batman will live. Get over it.

Maybe. Maybe not. We just don't know. The fact that it's even called into question will sell more movie tickets than promises of a never ending franchise ever could.

it would be stupid as hell to kill Batman... plain and simple... nothing even remotely cool about it...

I don't wanna make any predictions, and I'm sure the movie will be badass unless Nolan purposely makes it bad. But Batman dying would definitely be lame.

Again, I point you to Leonidas, Neo, Braveheart, Armageddon, Donnie Darko, Gladiator. True Grit. Death done well has been cool in the past, it will be cool again, whether for Batman, or someone else. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find a bad movie where the hero dies at the end.

Or is Batman special, somehow?

Now do I want him to die? No. Because I want him to keep being Batman. But I can definitely see where it could be a powerful moment in the story.

There's an honest answer. Thank you for sharing. I think the reason I don't mind him dying is because I know this is just one story in which he dies, and has no bearing on the comics, cartoons or movie reboot. Bale isn't going to keep being Batman. But Bale is just a Batman out of many that we have to choose from, and he's not going to be an option anyway, so why keep him alive to fight fights off screen. We know Nolan refuses to integrate it into a cinematic DCU, and so we were always going to need another Batman anyway. The fact that this continuity may be over only helps things.

 

[Nevincer]

So, you'd rather keep Batman alive so he can offscreen adventures indefinitely that we'll never see? How does dying make you seem weak?



You're overreacting, most of those things are fair game regardless of if Batman dies or not. I'm sure the movie will address how Batman's legacy and methods continue to protect Gotham after his death, which is what Ra's was trying to teach him in the first place.

It would. It would cheapen a meaningful and dramatic death. Can you imagine if after Neo died, the machines had massacred Zion. Then the death becomes pointless. Can you imagine if Leonidas died and then the persians ransacked Sparta? Now Leonidas' death isn't even the most important one in the film.

I don't think you've been paying attention to the themes of the films. Batman's goal isn't to stay alive, it's to save Gotham. If he dies in the process, he still wins, he's still strong. All is not lost if Batman dies.

So you understand that one death does not mean everyone should die, and that the end of a protagonists' life doesn't mean the end of their legacy, power and effect, but you choose not to apply those ideas to this franchise.

Maybe. Maybe not. We just don't know. The fact that it's even called into question will sell more movie tickets than promises of a never ending franchise ever could.






Again, I point you to Leonidas, Neo, Braveheart, Armageddon, Donnie Darko, Gladiator. True Grit. Death done well has been cool in the past, it will be cool again, whether for Batman, or someone else. In fact, you'll be hard pressed to find a bad movie where the hero dies at the end.

Or is Batman special, somehow?



There's an honest answer. Thank you for sharing. I think the reason I don't mind him dying is because I know this is just one story in which he dies, and has no bearing on the comics, cartoons or movie reboot. Bale isn't going to keep being Batman. But Bale is just a Batman out of many that we have to choose from, and he's not going to be an option anyway, so why keep him alive to fight fights off screen. We know Nolan refuses to integrate it into a cinematic DCU, and so we were always going to need another Batman anyway. The fact that this continuity may be over only helps things.

I can see I'm not needed in this thread any longer.

 

[BatFan88]

For some reason i still have the idea that batman wont die,bruce will just stop being batman and Catwoman continues the journey bruce started,Batman becomes a symbol for whole Gotham.Because Gotham will know who batman is and then there's no point of being Batman anymore because if he would still,then every villian can attack him in the heart by blowing the whole wayne enterprise up sky high.Then it's gone legacy gone symbol gone bruce wayne.

Catwoman will be the destraction,no one will think about Batman anymore once she's in the picture.

 

[BatFan88]

This is the only case where, metaphorically, I support the idea of Batman dying 100%.

..........

 

[coderaven24]

Lets keep the politics out of this. This a nice topic that left and right can enjoy togther.

 

[BatBat]

Hell, Bob Kane would claim it was his idea.

 

[DrCosmic]

For some reason i still have the idea that batman wont die,bruce will just stop being batman and Catwoman continues the journey bruce started,Batman becomes a symbol for whole Gotham.Because Gotham will know who batman is and then there's no point of being Batman anymore because if he would still,then every villian can attack him in the heart by blowing the whole wayne enterprise up sky high.Then it's gone legacy gone symbol gone bruce wayne.

Catwoman will be the destraction,no one will think about Batman anymore once she's in the picture.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but I too stongly suspect that Bruce will train Selina.

 

[Pagan]

Batman - Bush
Joker - Bin Laden
Alfred - Dick Cheney
Lucius Fox - Colin Powell
Catwoman - Condoleeza Rice
Bane - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Ra's Al Ghul - Saddam Hussein

This is the only case where, metaphorically, I support the idea of Batman dying 100%.

Nah that casting is all wrong.

 

[not_a_victim]

I posted this in the "Costume" thread, but it may be relevant here...
Something I have been thinking of...
Bats has multiple physical confrontations with Bane, and loses them all. The final one possibly breaking his back, or where ever Nolan wants to go with it...
He blames the suit, saying he still doesn't have the mobility he needs to beat Bane.
He winds up back in some sort of prison (if the teaser can be interpreted literally), and Bruce rediscovers his ability to fight in the prison enviroment, without the suit.
He manages to arrange one final confrontation with Bane, and forgoes the suit completely. He goes bare chested, or maybe in just a cloth "suit" and mask for the sake of mobility.
During the fight, either Bane unmasks him (such as is the ultimate humiliation in Luchadore wrestling matches), or Bruce takes his mask off for some reason, resulting in the "death" of Batman by revealing his identity...

 

[DrCosmic]

^Yeah. That works. I'm reasonably expecting something big, as opposed to just a ride of into the sunset finish. I just can't see everything ending in a stable status quo.

 

[Cats]

For some reason i still have the idea that batman wont die,bruce will just stop being batman and Catwoman continues the journey bruce started,Batman becomes a symbol for whole Gotham.Because Gotham will know who batman is and then there's no point of being Batman anymore because if he would still,then every villian can attack him in the heart by blowing the whole wayne enterprise up sky high.Then it's gone legacy gone symbol gone bruce wayne.

Catwoman will be the destraction,no one will think about Batman anymore once she's in the picture.

I sure hope not! That would shrink Catwoman to a Batman-replacement-fill-in-this-blank character. This is Catwoman we're talking about, not Robin, or Batgirl. Just because she does a little good from time to time does not make her a successor to Batman. Underneath it all Catwoman is a villain, because she's convinced herself that whatever wrong she's done is entirely acceptable, or doesn't much care about the consequences. In that sense, she will always be a villain, and stubbornly so.

If Selina is to be represented right by Nolan, she will be a strong-willed woman with her own set of goals and morals as she is in the comics. If anything, she will be the one who influences Batman, and not the other way around.

 

[Sith Scotti]

I sure hope not! That would shrink Catwoman to a Batman-replacement-fill-in-this-blank character. This is Catwoman we're talking about, not Robin, or Batgirl. Just because she does a little good from time to time does not make her a successor to Batman. Underneath it all Catwoman is a villain, because she's convinced herself that whatever wrong she's done is entirely acceptable, or doesn't much care about the consequences. In that sense, she will always be a villain, and stubbornly so.

If Selina is to be represented right by Nolan, she will be a strong-willed woman with her own set of goals and morals as she is in the comics. If anything, she will be the one who influences Batman, and not the other way around.

Catwoman ain't a villian . At worse she is a flaawed person but she ultimately has redeeming qualities and is a good person . I consder her more of a hero than say Huntress

 

[Cats]

Catwoman ain't a villian .

Well the Batman's rouge's gallery seems to think so I know what you mean though Sith, and I too like to see her as a heroine (and have never thought too highly of the Huntress), but more in a Robin Hood-ish sort of way.

Point is, it'd seem as ridiculous for Batman to groom Catwoman into becoming a replacement for him as a home owner to think of grooming a wild lion to do the job of a watchdog.

 

[Sith Scotti]

Well the Batman's rouge's gallery seems to think so I know what you mean though Sith, and I too like to see her as a heroine (and have never thought too highly of the Huntress), but more in a Robin Hood-ish sort of way.

Point is, it'd seem as ridiculous for Batman to groom Catwoman into becoming a replacement for him as a home owner to think of grooming a wild lion to do the job of a watchdog.

She has evolved to the point we can't call her villian . Back in 1940 of course .... Mow I am not buying that.


Who say Batman grooms her in the beginning . Maybe she takes it upon her self , but her methods go to far for Batman, who than gets her to redceem herself and change her methods.

Catwoman is the big mystery here , and imo is the key to the plot, which is why no nothing about her or seen little of her

 

[seifergt]

He's the god**mn batman! The god*amn batman doesn't die!