yep. i liked it. will see it again tomorrow to finalize my rating.
i have MAJOR problems with the pacing, editing, contrivances, and lack of motivations (especially luthor), but they took some bold risks and i thought the third act was surprisingly strong despite hating doomsday. the fact they HAD to do world building/tease other metahumans really kinda disrupted the narrative.
batman is awesome. superman was a bore (smile for once, man!) but i really liked this third act stuff and his relationship with lois. wonder woman was basically a cameo but i really liked her bits in it.
I just got back from seeing it. I don't know what to say... I hated it and I'm devastated. I don't think I'll ever get hyped for a movie again. I pray they can get DC back on track.
There's enough good there to salvage: I loved the cast (especially Eisenberg and Affleck) and the action scenes, but the movie as a whole didn't work for me.
I think the problem was the movie lacked a true protagonist. The movie should've been focused on Superman and the effect he's had on the world (and Batman and Luthor by extension). Also, the vision sequence and JL set-up were pointless and totally shoehorned in.
I can't believe it, but the critics were right and I'm heart broken.
So instead of blaming the actual movie, you blame a more successful film studio for actually delivering AND you blame an entire audience for it to prop up a clearly lesser film.
Why would i blame the movie for people just not getting it or not even willing to give it a shot and pay attention to the film istead of nitpicking every single frame of it! We have countless examples of films that audiences weren't ready for them and were re-evaluated in the future with much better results. This isn't a David Lean film but it's a strong Blade Runner. Visually great, genre film that tries to push the envelope a bit further. Does it succeed ? no, not entirely but to me the pros outweight the cons.
I do believe modern movie going audiences do not care seeing the bigger picture and familiarity means a lot to them. Hence the Transformers movies, the Marvel formula, cheap horror films that make millions at the box office, fart-joke comedies etc.
What Snyder and Goyer and Terrio are trying to do here is take Gods, ground them and make them change. Give character arcs to heroes that have been pretty much the same since their conception. That's why The Dark Knight trilogy worked, that is why The Dark Knight Returns and All Star Superman and the Killing Joke are timeless classics.
To me there is nothing more boring than a goodie-little two shoes Superman from te get-go and a Batman who after 20 years of crime fighting is the same guy as he was on his first day.
Saw the movie Thursday night and i'm giving it a 7/10 at best. The action was good. Supes needed more to do honestly, the middle of the film lulled quite a bit and the last act was so extreme. I think they should've transitioned better into some scenes. Overall, when its good its really good and its very un orthodox. The style of film this is could work but i dont think it was the right direction for this particular movie.
So instead of blaming the actual movie, you blame a more successful film studio for actually delivering AND you blame an entire audience for it to prop up a clearly lesser film.
I saw the movie today. I think it is best for me to start my review by saying I am not exactly Zack Snyder's biggest fan. Essentially, he is another Michael Bay to me. He can make a pretty looking movie that has really cool parts, but the man cannot juggle a story and always reverts to something non-sensical or juvenile. Man of Steel is a perfect example. The movie has so many cool moments and cool things about it, but the story is riddled with plot holes left and right. Walking into this film, I expected much of the same. Reviews supported my initial views, and I walked away thinking exactly what I thought I would be thinking. It's just more of the same from Zack Snyder.
Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice has the same problems and highlights, but is even less focused than Man of Steel. Man of Steel at least had an idea for what journey they wanted from point A to point B for Superman. That film just had to reintroduce Superman to a modern audience. Dawn of Justice is constantly juggling plot points and it feels more like a set-up film for Justice League than it does its own film. This film acts as a sequel to Superman in some ways, as a Batman solo in others, forces Wonder Woman into the mix, etc etc. The movie just never cleanly comes together.
Right from the start, I was turned off when this went from a Man of Steel sequel to a split Batman/Superman movie. I love Batman. I think he is a great character. However, too much of something can get tiresome. We've not really had an on screen presence for Superman since Christopher Reeve that stuck, so to se the Man of Steel franchise cut short to me to shoe horn in the Batman again, who just had a successful trilogy, rubbed me the wrong way. What I take away from this movie is that Zack Snyder likes Batman more. Most of the first act revolves around Batman, and Batman gets 90% of the "cool" moments of the movie. Batman also had a clear arc and vision with what they wanted, and Affleck delivers a great performance. On the other hand, Cavill even in Man of Steel was fairly bland. That continues on this film. They just seem to struggle with ways to make Superman interesting, and this frustrates me as a Superman fan. In his own solo movie, Jor-El was 100 times more interesting to watch than the title character, and I would say so was Michael Shannon. Sure, the main villain in BvS is Lex Luthor (who comes off more like a cartoon character than anything else), and Doomsday comes into the mix, and most of the Man of Steel cast are in this as well, and yet once again Superman is not one of the first things you think about walking out of the movie. I have little hope this changes with Justice League, since Cavill and Snyder have failed twice to make Superman one of the most interesting characters in either film they have put him in. While the film tries to make it a Superman film late, I find myself wanting more out of the Superman side of the DC spectrum.
I know many are raving about Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman in other reviews, but honestly, she was in this movie, but she had no arc and left no impression on me positive or negative. I will need to reserve judgement on her until she does something that requires more than showing up and having 1 fight sequence in costume. I will say so much was hyped going in about all the superheroes in this film, and yet outside the trinity, they're in it for maybe a collective 2 minutes total, and the film itself could have used more superheroing. Most of the movie, all the superheroes are in their civilian identies, and mostly it is just building up to the last 30 minutes of the movie. It is almost like watching professional wrestlers do months of promos for a match that lasts 15 minutes when it finally comes. More superheroes and less Lex Luthor babbling like an idiot would have helped this movie a lot.
All that being said, the movie overall is worth watching at least once. While the movie feels like a place holder commercial for Justice League most of the time, we do have events important for the eventual team-up that do occur, and the movie does shine in spots. The cinematography is good, hearing Zimmer's Man of Steel score again is always welcome, and when the action finally happens, it is entertaining in the way you would expect from Snyder or Bay. I would like to see the DC film-verse handed off to someone more capable to deliver a story that compliments these legendary characters, but at least through Justice League Part 1, Snyder likely is not going anywhere, and on that note, you know what you're getting into when you see a Zack Snyder film. While as a Superman fan I am disappointed to see him get punked a little and that they don't quite succeed in making Superman cool again (like say Captain America: The Winter Soldier made Captain America cool again), I can still find some things to enjoy.
DCU Films Rankings so far:
Man of Steel - 3/5
Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice - 2.5/5
I loved the film. Seen it three times now. Here is my review:
long, rambling thoughts on Batman v Superman.
Three years ago, on July 20th 2013, Man of Steel director Zack Snyder announced he would follow up his critically divisive, but in my eyes near perfect Superman movie with a sequel that would pit Clark Kent against the Batman. As someone whos two favorite superheroes have always been Batman and Superman (in that order), this sounded like a dream come true... especially since I really loved everything the somewhat divisive director had done before (except Sucker Punch, which is still find relatively watchable). There was no need to worry, right?
Let me tell you one thing... IF you are one of the DC Comics faithful and you like the darker and more serious approach to these films DC and WB have done for the last few years and even liked Man of Steel and more importantly Watchmen... you will love everything about this film. If you only check one of these boxes... or none... this kinda is not for you.
18 months after the black zero event destroyed a large chunk of downtown, where Bruce Wayne (Ben Affleck) witnessed how General Zod took down his Wayne Financial building with two giant blasts of heat vision, Batman is a man on a crusade... not only against crime, but against Superman. He believes that a man that powerful, even if his intentions are good now, is a way too big of a threat for all of humanity.
On the other side of the bay, which separates sister cities Gotham and Metropolis from each other, Clark Kent (Henry Cavill) is settling into his life with Lois (Amy Adams). The red caped hero has to get her out of trouble more often than he would like, because the pulitzer price winning reporter is way more risk taking, since she has a boyfriend who can track her all over the world by listening to her heartbeat. Meanwhile, genius/whackjob Lex Luthor (played with lunatic perfection by Jesse Eisenberg) orchestrates behind the scenes, to bring both heroes into conflict, to make way for his own plans.
That's about what I am willing to spoil about the movies story, because even when you think you know the basic outline from the trailers, there is still a lot to discover that I did not see coming (one reveal/surprise cameo came as such a shock to me that I had to jump off my seat for a second and threw my hands up in surprise).
The cast is great in this, especially Affleck, as a much (MUCH!) darker and violent Batman, and Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. Both characters are different from what we are used to, especially in the movies, with Batman taking most of his cues from Miller's Dark Knight Returns and Luthor being much more manic and crazy than in even most of the comics. Both approaches work though, especially a more crazed Luthor was needed to liven things up a little, but be prepared to hate Batman for quite a chunk of the movie, as this version is the bad guy in this conflict. It is also NOT a Batman film as much as it is a Superman, or DC heroes film, so take that for what you will. Batman still features prominently, of course, but it is all much more focused on Superman.
All returning players form Man of Steel, like Adam's Lois, Fishburne's Perry White and Diane Lane's Martha Kent are even better than in the first film and get a lot more space that I would have guessed, in a movie that a lot of people feared would be overcrowded. The only character that I felt could have used a little more screen time was Jeremy Irons' Alfred, who is a cool character anchored by a good performance, but we see too little of him. And let me just say... Wonder Woman Gal Gadot... holy moley... even people who won't love the movie will walk away excited about her solo film in 2017. She only has a few lines and scenes, but they are pivotal and amazing.
Visually this movie brings out everything I love about Zack Snyder. It looks just like a real life superhero comics book in a way that none other director's films can and I loved every stylised bit of it. Flashbacks, slow motion and images ripped 1 to 1 out of comics like Dark Knight Returns are the norm here and almost every frame would make a great wallpaper. Batman's introduction for example, looks like a scene out of a horror film, not a superhero one. The action is breath taking, and even the more CGI heavy scenes really work as well as the ones that are more practical. The big showdown the film is named after is done in a smart way and is actually really heart breaking, even if the conclusion to it is somewhat quick.
The only real problem I saw is the ebb and flow of the first hour of the movie, which has a weird pacing. I did not mind that, since I love these characters and enjoy slow story time with them, but it could be a slow start for most people. Another problem for this is that it really is not made for the "normies". The way they handle the "dawn of justice" part, which leads into Justice League, is great and made me gasp and jump with glee, but it will have most non DC fans scratching their head. So again... like I said at the beginning... some people will definitely enjoy this more than others. For example while a lot of Marvel movies do a pretty good balancing act between making a movie based on these comics, but also very mainstream, this is not that. The film is also very, very dark. More than even Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy.
This is not popcorn friendly, shut your brain off and have fun- entertainment, but a hardcore DC film, made by a hardcore DC fan, so I am not sure how it plays for people who aren't that. This is literally a DC Comic come to life and for a lot of people it will be a somewhat weird watch, since it also plays more to the rules of comics than those of movies. It is not a great film per se (even if I really really loved it), like Dark Knight, which manages to tip toe the line between hardcore comics and a movie that plays well for everyone, but a very different experience, aimed at a much smaller group. I salute DC and Warner Bros. for doing this, since it really is the most comic booky movie DC has ever done, but it might not do as well as it could have, if it had been made with a more mainstream approach. I, as a hardcore DC fan, love that, of course and hope that they will continue in this direction with Suicide Squad in August, Wonder Woman and Justice League in 2017.
If you want to put a number on it, it would be 9/10 for me. I LOVED IT
I went all in with this one, after a 3rd viewing. I apologize for the length.
Zack Snyder's BATMAN v SUPERMAN Dawn of Justice is a mythic fever dream of superhero heaven. A chaotic and operatic symphony that dares to go places that only Zack Snyder's own WATCHMEN (2009) even attempted in this genre that has taken over blockbuster cinema. And it's doesn't shock me one bit that this film has become as divisive as it is. What did anyone expect out of Zack Snyder?
The core of the film pits these two super titans, these icons of pop culture at a crisis point in their lives. One is dealing with the consequences and repercussions of trying to do the right thing by a world that is evenly split on his existence as the "other" amongst them. For every good that he does, there is an equal and opposite reaction to it. The other is dealing with feelings of anger, rage, fear, and helplessness of 20 years of crime fighting not possibly really mattering in the grand scheme of things, especially when the "other" existence brings about questions his own place in the universe. Man dealing with the existence of a god amongt them.
It is especially more troubling for both icons when a third party is the puppet master behind the eventual collision course that they are set upon...a puppet master that feels that power and God can not be innocent or good. Man should determine it's own fate.
This is mythic ****.
This film drips with religious and political subtext in nearly every frame of this picture. Back and forth, Zack Snyder challenges the audience to engage, to ask for something more than the typical. He may have bitten off more than he can chew, considering the only thing he really had to do with pit the two titans in a one and one and make it enjoyable and "fun" for the audience at a large. And while he does that in spades, in my opinion, Zack Snyder decides that isn't even. That isn't enough to simply do what's expected for Batman and Superman. He takes it further than I think I was even willing to admit that he'd go. But, goes there. And I'm grateful that he does.
This is the 400 million dollar invest by Warner Bros to launch a decade worth of films around these DC characters in a shared universe that's all the rage right now. Speaking personally, give me more of Zack Snyder's cinematic universe, flaws and overly ambition be damned. This is filmmaking of the highest order. Many will say that this type of film does not need to be divisive. It just needs to entertain and move on to the next chapter. Is this what blockbuster cinema come down to? Do a little bit and move on to the next one? I fundamentally reject the notion. We complain and ***** when the studios take short cuts to maximize our dollars. And when a major studio let's one of its own go all the **** out on some of their biggest IPs, we complain and ***** that he's too much. He went too far. All he had to do was make it fun. **** that.
The story and plot of the film is simple but deeply layered until it reaches a convergence point when suddenly everything is making sense. The action, while a bit too big and too CG in the climax is utterly mesmerizing in the hands of this artist. The climatic showdown of the title is the highlight, followed by what should be considered the best live action Batman action sequence in history. It is a dance of skill and pain when Batman takes out a group of bad guys, all in the name of redemption and closure of sorts. The score by Hans Zimmer and Junkie XL, while not as good as Zimmer's MAN OF STEEL score, it is appropriately epic and mythic. Larry Fong's cinematography deserves an Oscar nomination and a win. Only his work in WATCHMEN rivals what he did here, with 20 minutes of it shot with IMAX cameras. See it in IMAX 2D if possible. It's just breathtaking.
The performances of this stellar cast are wonderful. Henry Cavill, who will not get the respect he deserves because of his partner in this, is my favorite Superman. Part of that comes from the writing. But, it's him as well. The range of emotions for Cavill in this thing is fantastic. This is his role. He owns it. He was born for it.
The Affleck is extraordinary as Bruce Wayne and the Batman. How luck has the character of Batman been to have so many actors give so many great performances as the character. Just add Ben Affleck to the growing list of Christian Bale, Michael Keaton, Adam West, and Kevin Conroy. Christian Bale is my Batman. That'll never change. He had three films to tell a full story of Bruce Wayne and his quest to save the city he loved. But, it doesn't bother me one bit to say that for a single film...a single snapshot of live action Batman...Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne and Batman is probably the best of all time, only because he brings so many elements of the character over its 75 year history into one, single film perfectly.
Amy Adams continues her work as my favorite Lois Lane, a Lois Lane who is fierce, caring, and will to do what it takes, no matter the circumstances and no matter if her life is in danger. He's willing to stand next to this god that she loves and take whatever comes. She breaks your heart at the end of this thing.
And, last but not least, we have to mention Gal Gadot's debut as Wonder Woman. An extended cameo in the vein of Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow in IRON MAN 2 (2010) but much more impactful and more graceful. Gal Gadot is going to bring justice to a character that waited long enough to have her moment in the sun. In this introductory role, she brings enough mystery and confidence to have audiences begging to see her in her own film. And yeah, she owns it in the climax.
Like MAN OF STEEL(2013), this thing will get analyzed, picked, and think pieced to death until the next time we see Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman together on the screen. This is what we do with entertainment now. It is either the worse film of all time or the greatest of all time. There's no happy middle for calm discussion and for proper analysis. With so many taking sides (thank you social media), this film will never be truly appreciated because everyone has a stake in the game for whatever odd reason. My stake is this; I don't give two ****s about cinematic universes any longer. They've practically almost ruined blockbuster cinema. But, to be fair and to call out my own hypocrisy, I have a stake in Zack Snyder for the simple fact that I want artist like this to continue to have a voice in a market that doesn't let filmmakers go all in like this on the studio's dime. We should be asking for more of this, not less.
It is what it is. The general audience will decide this film's fate. For me, BATMAN v SUPERMAN Dawn of Justice is a mesmerizing and mythic cinematic experience that needs to be seen on the biggest screen possible. It will remain in my top ten films of the year. And with the knowledge that an even better version of this film exist, that gets a home video release later this year, this film could potential climb to my number one. It's that impressive.
I've come to expect mixed bags when it comes to WB presenting DC films. This was no exception.
The main players:
Cavill hit another grand slam as Superman. The guy absolutely owns the character and given that he was first created by a two Jewish men in a time where ant-Semitism was open and rampant, this kind of translation makes more sense to me than the Quadrilogy representation. Superman struggles to fit in like an immigrant and save a world which is both ignorant and mistrustful. I don't agree with people who say that he's dour or lifeless; he's more real like this.
Affleck was mediocre. He was bland as Bruce, where he lacked the necessary nuance that Bale brought to the role. He looked good as Batman (props to him for getting into shape), but until the final act of the film, Batman's hand-to-hand skills looked slow and not particularly crisp. Some of that might be the fault of his stunt men; I'm not sure about that.
Gadot was clearly miscast. By no means am I body shaming her, but the physicality of her role was important and she lacked either the time and/or the genetics to get into the proper shape. She lacked the screen presence to make the character believable, especially in her Wondy costume. She didn't have a great deal of screen time, which was a good thing here, so she really didn't impact the film too much one way or another.
Eisenberg...ugh. This was the worst casting in a CBM since Topher Grace as Venom. This incarnation of Luthor was painful in every aspect. Eisenberg reminded me more of Toyman or Trickster than Luthor with his haphazard, quick delivery. Every time he spoke, it was like listening to a chihuahua that had learned English.
Other strengths:
Irons acquitted himself very effectively as Alfred.
Fishburne gave his usual outstanding performance and delivered some hilarious one-liners.
Adams gave another solid performance.
The visuals were impressive.
The battle between Supes and Bats was brutal. That was one of the best CBM fights in any film to date.
Several of the real world celebrity cameos added to the realistic feel of the film.
Other weaknesses:
Doomsday's origin was lazy.
There were too many dream sequences.
Once again, there was a potentially planet-ending threat, but no Green Lanterns showed up to help. Some people might say that wasn't necessary, but I say to Warner Bumbles:
Overall, BvS skewed to the positive. Warner Brothers is a week late and a few dollars short, but they finally made it to the party. On to the Justice League, even if it is incomplete.
This is not popcorn friendly, shut your brain off and have fun- entertainment, but a hardcore DC film, made by a hardcore DC fan, so I am not sure how it plays for people who aren't that. This is literally a DC Comic come to life and for a lot of people it will be a somewhat weird watch, since it also plays more to the rules of comics than those of movies. It is not a great film per se (even if I really really loved it), like Dark Knight, which manages to tip toe the line between hardcore comics and a movie that plays well for everyone, but a very different experience, aimed at a much smaller group. I salute DC and Warner Bros. for doing this, since it really is the most comic booky movie DC has ever done, but it might not do as well as it could have, if it had been made with a more mainstream approach. I, as a hardcore DC fan, love that, of course and hope that they will continue in this direction with Suicide Squad in August, Wonder Woman and Justice League in 2017.
Yea, I'm so glad this film is rather bold and not so popcorn friendly. It will probably hurt the box office, and certainly their reputation, as we can see around, but this style of film is much more engaging for me than what other CBM brands produce... Kudos to WB and Snyder. They gave me very interesting and entertaining movie experience.
Saw the movie today and while the movie takes a few missteps, it's not a bad movie by any means, in fact I liked it for the most part.
I don't know why it has such a low RT rating, dunno what the reviewers are smoking. Also, I'm fed-up with all this negativity, taking a break from SHH till Suicide Squad release date.
Accidentally posted this in the discussion thread when I meant to post it here...
The movie is no where near as bad as people are making it out to be. Didn't live up to the hype it received but I don't understand the hate it's getting. I'll tag some things I didn't like though because, for the most part, I enjoyed the whole film.
I hated Lex in this. Unless this is a version of Lex I never read before, it didn't feel like Lex Luthor to me
Really didn't mind Batman killing but was it implied that he only started killing after the events in MoS?
Get Lois Lane out of there. She was a waste of screen time.
The Knightmare scene was pretty cool but it felt out of place. Was that Flash warning Bruce?
Didn't like the ending to the Batman Superman fight. Even some people in my theater raised their hands like
I think they should have left WW opening the file on the other heroes until the end of the film, maybe as a mid credits scene.
All in all I'd give it a 7/10. Going to see it again today in regular theaters. There were a few were edits and cuts in the movie but it really wasn't enough for me to roll my eyes.
Rushed, sloppy, incoherent. Those are the words to best describe Batman v Superman.
For all of Superman's years as an "inspiring" hero, Henry Cavill's portrayal only inspires depression and self doubt. The world needs saving, but the hell with it because mama Kent said so!
Batman is just Ben Affleck in a Batman suit. Not much else. I get the references to Dark Knight Returns and other Frank Miller work, but on screen it just comes across as needless overkill.
Eisenberg is a complete clown as Lex. His motivation and endless babble had no rhyme or reason.
It is unfortunate that Gal Gadot has nothing more to do than stand around and look hot.
I certainly cannot list this movie as being on the same level as Green Lantern or Batman & Robin, but at the same time it definitely has no place on anyone's top ten best superhero movies. Zach Snyder's style and direction on this thing would make even Michael Bay be like "Dude, really?"
It just showed to me that DC looked at the Marvel movies and said "Ooooh shiny!", and in a competitive move, got the ball rolling on their own cinematic universe. That's fine, but their method shows they're in a rush, doing way too much way too fast.
Ultimately at the end of the night, I went home and watched some Batman and Superman animated series DVDs to forget this messy cinematic wonder.
Really enjoyed it, but still vehemently disagree with [blackout] having Batman kill. It brought absolutely nothing to the film, was completely unnecessary, with the exception of KGBeast (which I was actually kind of ok with.) Gunning down the trucks out front was completely pointless, and could have been cut and litterally would have changed nothing. Same with the chase sequence. He would have killed so many of those guys in that scene. At the very least the guys he threw a ****ing car on top of.
The fact that these killings served litterally no purpose, added absolutely nothing to the plot or character, leaves Snyder's reason for doing this litterally, from his own mouth, 'the other films did it, so **** it, why not.' Sorry, but that is ****ing hack as ****.
Frustratingly stupid, and pointless.
You can watch the film and actually be almost clueless to the fact that Batman killed anyone, except maybe KGBeast, which just shows how absolutely unnecessary a choice this was.
The Knightmare sequence killing didn't bother me much, it's a nightmare. Superman was also burning people alive in it. Still was weird watching Batman with so many guns.
Also, there's NO way that terrorist would have survived what Superman did to him. He flew him threw multiple concrete walls. That guy most certainly died. So, yeah, the very first thing you see Superman do is kill a guy.
However, for my own viewing peace of mind, I'm willing to suspend disbelief, and assume the terrorist was only really badly hurt.[/blackout]
Ultimately, this felt like a film that kind of defied classification.
It was kind of like a drama, that happens to have a huge action climax.
I certainly felt a lot of the criticisms that have been made in reviews, but felt it ultimately worked, and worked well.
I think a large portion of the negative reviews are the result of preconceptions of what to expect from "this kind of movie", which in turn amplified the legit flaws in the film.
The beginning really feels like a lot of tiny short scenes stitched back to back. It felt like this was thee result of over trimming. Too much cut from the 3 hr version.
That's not to say the film should have been longer. Rather that I get the feeling that a lot of what was cut out could have been put back, and other edits made in turn.
That's obviously pure speculation, as we haven't seen what was ultimately cut, but based on what we have been told was cut, and the way the theatrical edits feel, that's the impression I get.
I was surprised how little action there was through the first half, though it didn't feel like you were really missing it. The film was still very gripping, and the kind of investigative story pulls you along.
While I really enjoyed Cavil in the role, and I like how they continued Superman's arc/journey from MOS.
It's very much about what it is and what it means to be a hero.
I think I put my finger on what felt so off about this film from an editing standpoint. The first half of the film felt live it had been edited for tv. Not in terms of ******** censorship as usually happens in a world of so called freedom of speech, but more for time, and it defiantly is felt. So it ended up feeling over edited in many areas.
It also, ironically, felt under edited, mainly when seeing Batman on screen.
Despite how it felt in many of the trailers, he feels slow at times. Or at least the editing of some of his fights and actions certainly do.
The trailer warehouse fight sequence kicks the ass of the film's editing of it.
Similarly felt that way in the Knightmare vision. However I get the impression some of this may have been due to the use of Imax.
I didn't see it in Imax, yet, planning on it this week. I believe that the Knightmare sequence was one of the ones shot in Imax, and the might change the feeling of those scenes.
Did not feel it as much with Batman during the final Doomsday fight, but there was a good bit more cgi Batman, so that certainly would affect the way he appears to move.
I'm just on my way home from seeing BvS for the second time, last time I wasn't keen kn certain parts of the score and Eisenberg as Lex. This time I loved both, BvS is definitely a film that warrants a rewatch. I need some time to think but for me this might just be the best CBM of them all.
Glad to hear you liked it, Vartha. Maybe my standards are just relaxing too much. I noticed the flaws in the film but they didn't really bother me. I had a lot of fun and enjoyed the movie.
What's more, my dad did too (a big superman fan) and I was more worried that he'd be disappointed than I was worried about myself.
I'm just on my way home from seeing BvS for the second time, last time I wasn't keen kn certain parts of the score and Eisenberg as Lex. This time I loved both, BvS is definitely a film that warrants a rewatch. I need some time to think but for me this might just be the best CBM of them all.
Saw the movie today and while the movie takes a few missteps, it's not a bad movie by any means, in fact I liked it for the most part.
I don't know why it has such a low RT rating, dunno what the reviewers are smoking. Also, I'm fed-up with all this negativity, taking a break from SHH till Suicide Squad release date.
I really wanted to like Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice. I really tried and don’t get me wrong there are things to like about it but there are also a lot of bad things and sadly the bad things outweigh the good.
This is a film that is going to polarize audiences. You’re either are going be on the fence that likes it, hates it, or in-between/indifferent.
It sucks that after a three year wait this is what we get. Sure, the cast tries to make an omelet out of a few cracked eggs with what they’re given for a script, but from tonal shifts, bad dialogue, out of character characterizations, and poor decision-making and miscasting (I’m looking at you Eisenberg), Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice is a letdown.
It does boast some good action however despite its failings and I am excited to see what the other Justice League members’ movies will be like, but while I’ve defended Zack Snyder in the past whether it be Dawn of the Dead, 300 or Watchmen, here it feels like Sucker Punch all over again. What I mean by that is, the film is sporadic and trying to do and say too much. Even with a 2 hour and half runtime it still feels like a lot is missing. Most of this is character development and lighter moments. There’s some humor and some good exchanges between Bruce and Alfred, Clark and Lois or Clark and Perry White, but all of these moments are too little. Snyder runs the whole movie at a frantic, ADD-charged pace. We’re constantly bouncing around, following too many stories and shoehorning in the future Justice League with cheap, blink-and-you’ll-miss-them cameos.
Then, there’s the controversial elements that did me in and I am sure will do the same for others. Batman and Superman kill. It’s shocking, dark, and like I said completely out of character. Both are herald as heroes of their respective cities but yet they come off as mass-murderers.
Batman’s fighting style, which I liked, is not for the kids either. It’s very fast-paced, brutal, and pitiless. Bones are broken, ribs cracked, and Batman even brands people with his Batarangs. Batman has always been a brawler and his warehouse rescue is very Arkham Asylum-esque but in the hallucination/nightmare sequences Batman shoots people, breaks their necks, and Superman fries people with his heat-vision. It’s disturbing and feels like Zack Snyder wanted to turn these two characters into knockoffs of Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan.
And let me state, I HATED every moment Batman killed; every moment Superman killed. Snyder’s defense of both is also ridiculous too. Even if Batman is older and seen and been through a lot of crap, if this Batman has no qualms about killing people and Alfred, his allies, or James Gordon and the GCPD haven’t locked him away for it, then Gotham City is more of a messed up city then ever.
Ben Affleck was made for Bruce Wayne and Batman. While some fans were queasy to the idea of him playing Batman and others rude and unforgiving in their odious remarks and disdain, Ben proved the haters wrong. He’s likable, charming, and worldly-wise, but at the same time he is gruff, bitter, jaded, violent, perhaps a tad psychotic, and surly. His trust for people only goes so far. Wayne Manor is a ramshackle mess while the Batcave is a high-tech playground full of the gadgetry, Batmobile, and mainframe of computers we come to expect. Batman also has an old Robin costume graffitied by the Joker. It’s hard to tell, however, if this is Jason Todd’s or Dick Grayson’s.
Affleck has good chemistry with Jeremy Irons’ Alfred who plays Bruce’s trusted manservant with a playful yet snarky and chiding tone. Unlike Michael Caine or Michael Gough’s portrayals this Alfred, too, is a bit of a machinist and gearhead.
Affleck’s Batman, too, for the first time can swivel his head and move around in the suit with his full body. Many times, in the previous films, Batman’s movements were stiff and clunky. The growly voice is quite intimidating compared to what Bale used and in one particular scene Batman shows just why criminals fear him. Also, what is great is we get to see him be the world’s greatest detective.
The other highlight of the film is Gal Gadot as Diana Prince/Wonder Woman. Even if she is in a few scenes, when she arrives, the movie gets a rejuvenated shot in the arm. Although, her moments with Bruce Wayne are very cat-and-mouse Batman and Catwoman-esque. Which is something I brought up when the movie ended and we walked out the theater, if she was changed to Selina Kyle, there was no Superman, Eissenberg’s Lex Luthor was changed to Joker or the Riddler, and the Justice League were saved to a film of their own without jamming them in, this would’ve been a tolerable Batman film, but when you have all these characters and subplots and multiple story lines going on, Zack Snyder fumbles his way through the juggling act.
Speaking of Jesse Eissenberg, his Lex Luthor is probably, hands down, the worse Lex that has been put on the screen. After Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey, I cannot to the life of me understand why they continue to write Lex as campy and cartoonish. The best Lex Luthor (still) is Clancy Brown from the animated Superman series. His Lex is suave, crafty, coldhearted, and he never devolves into corny territory.
Eissenberg’s Lex Luthor, on the other hand, is an arrogant, flamboyant, brattish, atheistic,and troubled megalomaniac with daddy issues. Obsessed with humanity conquering gods/aliens or those more superior to them and spouting philosophical and theological nonsense, Eissenberg pretty much plays Lex as if he were a cross between Mark Zuckerberg and as I said Joker. I was more laughing at how badly written his character was versus the intended laughter I feel Snyder and company wanted to bring across. To say I hated the character would be an understatement. It’s an incredible injustice to Lex Luthor and what they’ve done or rendered him to be. This isn’t just me saying this as a fan but as a movie-goer too. And can we PLEASE drop the old contrived cliche that all multimillionaires or multibillionaires are people who suffer from tics and keep their urine in mason jars? This works for Howard Hughes but not everyone is a Howard Hughes.
A lot of this movie, for the most part, seems like someone flung so many ideas at the wall like if it were a baby hurling applesauce, and hoped many of those same ideas stuck. David Goyer is a hack writer who’s only gotten lucky in the business because he co-wrote the Nolan Batman trilogy but even if so, Chris and his brother Jonathan Nolan are both two juggernauts of talent that gave those films their all. Even Chris Terrio, who is an Oscar-winning writer, I feel is better than what we’ve been given.
Let me close by saying, I feel bad for Henry Cavill.
His Clark Kent/Superman isn’t given much to do and when he dies, the impact of the death is not as emotionally stirring as it could’ve been.
Same goes for Amy Adams’ Lois Lane who acts rather stupidly in this sequel and Diane Lane’s Martha Kent and Laurence Fishburne’s Perry White, who while great to see them all back, feel like little sidesteps in an overall overambitious, loud and cacophonous, and disjointed story. Even the Justice League feel like lip-service moments; blips on the radar.
Flash’s time-travel cameo appearance in one of Bruce’s dreams feels out there and completely spontaneous; the Mad Max-feeling, apocalyptic Darkseid has taken over-nightmare Bruce has also feels dropped in to say to fans, “Hey, if you like this… there’s more ahead” when all of these things could play out over time in other films, solo movies, and sequels.
This is why I had such a hard time with this film because everything I was so unsure and skeptical about came true. Too many characters, too many plots, too many things going on, and even the big matchup between Batman and Superman, while at times fun to watch, feels forced.
Once we get to that moment, both men nearly kill each other and then go, “Why are we doing this? I was going to tell you something but….” Don’t get me wrong, I like the connection Snyder makes that the two have similarities: a dead father and mom’s name is Martha, but the fight itself is billed in the trailers, TV spots, on T-shirts, and everywhere else as this big gladiator match; a Pay-Per-View granddaddy of them all slugfest that really only lasts 8-10 minutes and then we leap over to a big heavily-CGIed fight with Doomsday.
Speaking of Doomsday, there are only a few moments where this ugly, spiky brute shines, but for the most part it looks and sounds like a Cave Troll from Lord of the Rings. Doomsday, for those who don’t know, is responsible for the Death of Superman.
The movie does this, too, but as I said earlier, the weight of the death isn’t as significant as it could’ve been if Superman had to face this Kryptonian abomination on his own like in the comics.
With help, yeah it’s cool to see the Trinity fighting side by side one another, but if done, in say the Justice League movie, where all these characters come together for the big showdown against the big bad villain ala Avengers, the whole union would’ve had more of an impact.
And this is the whole problem with D.C.’s format versus Marvel’s. Yes, it’s new and different, but Marvel Studios has been successful because it takes its time developing the characters, worlds, origin stories, and then the eventual team-ups and splits of the teams. They make you get invested with these characters. Outside of Batman and Wonder Woman, the world and characters I got invested to in Man of Steel weren’t there for me anymore; only in the quieter moments did the investment return, but as said before, they were too little to appreciate.
Overall, I give the film a 5 out 10. There are moments that stand out, but there are far too many others that don’t.
At least there’s Captain America: Civil War and other movies to look forward to in the meantime.
Why would i blame the movie for people just not getting it or not even willing to give it a shot and pay attention to the film istead of nitpicking every single frame of it! We have countless examples of films that audiences weren't ready for them and were re-evaluated in the future with much better results. This isn't a David Lean film but it's a strong Blade Runner. Visually great, genre film that tries to push the envelope a bit further. Does it succeed ? no, not entirely but to me the pros outweight the cons.
I do believe modern movie going audiences do not care seeing the bigger picture and familiarity means a lot to them. Hence the Transformers movies, the Marvel formula, cheap horror films that make millions at the box office, fart-joke comedies etc.
What Snyder and Goyer and Terrio are trying to do here is take Gods, ground them and make them change. Give character arcs to heroes that have been pretty much the same since their conception. That's why The Dark Knight trilogy worked, that is why The Dark Knight Returns and All Star Superman and the Killing Joke are timeless classics.
To me there is nothing more boring than a goodie-little two shoes Superman from te get-go and a Batman who after 20 years of crime fighting is the same guy as he was on his first day.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO SPOILER TAGS.
CONTAINS SPOILERS DO NOT READ.
Well, I saw it yesterday...
BvS.. Wow, what an event, surely the biggest event in CBMs since The Avengers in 2012. There were thing I liked, and things I did not like, overall the negatives vastly outweighed the positives for me I'm afraid.
THE GOOD
-Batfleck... possibly the best/most captivating live action portrayal of the characater thus far in history and that is saying something! He was great as Bruce Wayne, a man who's basically lost who he used to be, and great as a more ruthless Batman. That first time you see him perched in the corner of the ceiling when the cop shoots at him was creepy and just brilliant. The costume, aside from the slightly OTT muscle padding looked great- black and grey! The voice works, the best onscreen fighting from Batman in live action we have seen so far (could be a bit faster tho), the big scene where he takes down Luthor's goons was the best scene of the film..... and the bit when he flew over Lex's men and ended em with a mini gun, wow that was chilling... Suprisingly I don't have a problem with him killing, in a way it makes him even more compelling... how low he has sunk... Can he redeem himself, or is it too late for that because he's crossed that line? Is incarceration now the only answer? I hope we get a Snyder-free Batfleck film asap.... Mr wooden Ben Affleck can actually act! Who'd have thought it?!
-Jeremy Irons was great as Alfred. Also it was kinda cool that Wayne Manor was all burnt out and we did not find out why yet.
-The Batman Vs Superman fight was great, I look fwd to the R-rated blu ray as I'm sure the fights will be longer/more violent.
THE BAD
-Oh boy, where to begin... Snyder does not know how to tell a story well. The story does not flow. It feels like a bunch of random scenes spliced together in chronological order.
-The first 40 minutes were not bad, but from the Bruce Wayne nightmare with guns and flying insect men (wtf) right up to the BvS fight I was straight up BORED.
-In the Bruce Wayne flying insect men nightmare, when he was hitting people with his gun you could see the gun bending. Obviously because the prop was rubber or foam.
-The Batmobile chase was boring.
-Henry Cavil is perfectly cast for the role, but his portrayal of Clark/Superman BLOWS. He has zero personality either in costume or
out of it, he is a mopey depressing excuse for a hero and... WE NEVER SEE HIM ACTUALLY SAVE ANYONE. Zack Snyder's interpretation
of the character is just way off for me. Superman is supossed to be the opposite of Batman. People are suppossed to love him, he is
supossed to SMILE! Instead everyone seems to hate him and he is constantly depressed.
We don't connect to the character because we never see him save the people, or any charisma. Which doublely frustrating because in
interviews Henry is the most charming guy you could ever meet. All we ever see is him smashing up big CGI buildings. The scene when he saves the girl from a burning building is a perfect example;- We don't see the actual heroic save that would make the audience connect with Superman, we just see him handing the child to the mother, surrounded by a bunch of people in day of the dead facepaint in slo-mo because Snyder obviously thought it would make a cool visual. The effect is hallow. All style no substance, no heart.
-Amy Adams is a good actress but her portrayal of Lois Lane is flat as a pancake- no personality. And her subplot was BORING.
-The Clark/Lois relationship is still as unconvincing and forced as it was in MOS. Why exactly do they love each other? Because they are both
good looking? Sorry not good enough. We see nothing between them as to why they have such a strong connection, the relationship never develops.
In the Donner films, they may have been a bit campy, but Margot Kidder was great as Lois- she had balls and personality and you can totally see
why Clark would have liked her.
-The daily Planet offices once again feel depressing, soulless and empty.
-Numerous plot holes, the biggest one for me is why would Batman just discard the Kryptonite spear after his fight with Supes? It made zero sense.
-The Bruce Wayne shirtless training montage... It looked like they had CG'd a six pack and pecs over Affleck's moobs. Lame. Either get in Batman shape or don't do a shirtless scene.
-Superman's muscle padded costume looked dumb as he waddled into court. The muscle padding is totally unnecessary. You can see from
Cavil's topless scene he is in amazing shape. We don't need to see every cut showing through the costume. He would look much better and more natural without the padding.
-Shoehorning the death of Superman story into the end was a waste of an all time great villain and made the film feel overstuffed. The problems I had with Doomsday are as follows 1) They did not use his alien comic origin 2) he looked ******ed and nothing like the comic version 3) he has no manhood 4) the fight with the trinity was crap. They should have just had Bizarro or Metallo in his place;- the trinity team up to defeat the enemy and boom the JL is formed.
-The death of Superman produced no emotion because we had no connection to the character.
WHATEVER
-Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman
-Eissenberg as Lex Luthor
VERDICT
This film did not get 30% on RT.com because critics prefer the Marvel style and do not like dark CB adaptations, proof of this is the critical acclaim of the Nolan Bat trilogy and the Netflix Daredevil show. Sorry guys but this film got 30% because it is a crap film, a fact which is all the more frustrating when it has moments of brilliance in it and actors who have been perfectly cast but are being written and directed all wrong.
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