BvS Batman v Superman - Reviews Thread [TAG SPOILERS] - Part 1

[Jekecy]

It's not hard to understand. It just simply doesn't make sense in terms of the characterisation of Bruce up to that point.

I just cannot buy his complete 180 at the realization that Superman, who he is convinced will bring about Armageddon, has a mother named Martha. It is terrible writing that simply isn't consistent with what has happened previously in the movie.

I can buy Bruce giving Superman more of a chance. But becoming best buddies and all of a sudden being inspired to be a better person? It all just rings false and unearned... like the ending to Man of Steel.

Bruce has up to that point seen Supes as an other, a demigod, an alien. Nothing beyond that. All he sees is a potential threat.

"Martha" isn't some revelation that Supes has a mom. Of course not. But it puts him back to his last day of innocence when his own father at the face of his incoming death calls out to his now-dead wife. Martha. The floodgates have opened when Bruce for the first time sees Supes in a different light. Bruce in a similar position to his parents' murderer. Superman, his dying father's. All Supes is interested about is his own mother's well-being.

Considering all that, you don't think Bruce feels like a deplorable monster in that instant? He "snaps back" and gets out of his tunnel vision. I can sympathize with the whole "I'll save your mom" bit happening mere seconds later. But that singular moment between those two was beautifully conceptualized.

 

[RadioSha]

It's not hard to understand. It just simply doesn't make sense in terms of the characterisation of Bruce up to that point.

I just cannot buy his complete 180 at the realization that Superman, who he is convinced will bring about Armageddon, has a mother named Martha. It is terrible writing that simply isn't consistent with what has happened previously in the movie.

I don't think it's terrible writing at all. Maybe the execution could be better, but seeing it was so emotional for me. He finally saw him as someone who is hopeless and calling out for his mother. Someone at his level. A mother that he didn't realize an alien can love and be loved by.

He saw how helpless he was in that situation back when he saw his father call out for Martha one last time.

I thought of my own brother who I fought a few times. It's a powerful scene for me.

There are so many things you can add onto it. To me, it impacted me even further the second time around seeing BvS.

One of the better parts of the movie in my opinion. Even with that half cowl, one of the best acting in a superhero movie by Ben Affleck.

 

[InspecktahDeck]

I guess no matter how goofy a movie or game's writing can be you can go on the internet and find even worse fan ideas.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Superman didn't blatantly kill those civilians. That was Zod. But during the battle all Bruce saw was two aliens in a battle royal killing thousands in the process. That was his only frame of context and reference. That's all he had and that's all he wanted/needed to know.

The sympathy comes from the sudden realization that as Alfred had tried to tell him earlier in the movie, Superman is not the enemy. The mention of his mother destroyed all preconceived notions he had about him.

Frankly, Bruce relenting has much less to do with garnering sympathy to Clark than it does him realizing that he's misread this entire situation.

Again, that makes no sense. Seriously take a minute and answer my question above. Take a minute. It took me two viewings to even ask it of myself.

 

[Jaxon]

Bruce has up to that point seen Supes as an other, a demigod, an alien. Nothing beyond that. All he see is a potential threat.

"Martha" isn't some revelation that Supes has a mom. Of course not. But it puts him back to his last day of innocence when his own father at the face of his incoming death calls out to his now-dead wife. Martha. The floodgates have opened when Bruce for the first time sees Supes in a different light. He's in a similar position to his parents' gunmen. All Supes is interested about is his own mother's well-being.

Considering all that, you don't think Bruce feels like a deplorable monster in that instant? He "snaps back" and gets out of his tunnel vision. I can sympathize with the whole "I'll save your mom" bit happening mere seconds later. But that singular moment between those two was beautifully conceptualized.

It's the humanising of Superman by Lois in front of him and Bruce working out that he has been duped by Lex is what turns him. The Martha reference just forces him a moment to pause until he starts processing the Lex deception and Lois turning up

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Swear to god I hope Ayer (who has a twisted sense of humor) adds a Martha tattoo to Joker in post production. Would help make sense why Batman hasn't killed him since Martha is like instant Zoloft for Bruce.

(Yeah...why is Joker, Killer Croc, Harley Quinn etc. Alive anyway? Batman killed random thugs in BS. A guy like Joker is way more dangerous...)

 

[The Endless]

Having a mom called Martha doesn't all of a sudden stop Superman being a world ending threat.

If Bruce loses his convictions that easily he's a ****ing idiot.

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's not hard to understand. It just simply doesn't make sense in terms of the characterisation of Bruce up to that point.

I just cannot buy his complete 180 at the realization that Superman, who he is convinced will bring about Armageddon, has a mother named Martha. It is terrible writing that simply isn't consistent with what has happened previously in the movie.

I can buy Bruce giving Superman more of a chance. But becoming best buddies and all of a sudden being inspired to be a better person? It all just rings false and unearned... like the ending to Man of Steel.

This right here is the disconnect. What does having s mother have to do with the actual motivation Batman had for killing him? It defies logic. And no one has given an answer to it yet

 

[Jekecy]

It's the humanising of Superman by Lois in front of him and Bruce working out that he has been duped by Lex is what turns him. The Martha reference just forces him a moment to pause until he starts processing the Lex deception and Lois turning up

Yes, that too. Lois drives it home with her delivery.

"It's his mother. It's the name of his mother."

God-like status withstanding, it's very hard to see the beatdown Supes as anything but a human being in that moment.

 

[BH/HHH]

Having a mom called Martha doesn't all of a sudden stop Superman being a world ending threat.

If Bruce loses his convictions that easily he's a ****ing idiot.

Actually I think you misunderstood that scene.

I think Bruce realises how far he's gone when he hears the name Martha. It's the fact that Superman has a human mother when Bruce realises that Supetman is more human than he thought. He thought he was killing a godlike being, it shows how far Bruce has fallen and he realises.

 

[The Endless]

Actually I think you misunderstood that scene.

I think Bruce realises how far he's gone when he hears the name Martha. It's the fact that Superman has a human mother when Bruce realises that Supetman is more human than he thought. He thought he was killing a godlike being, it shows how far Bruce has fallen and he realises.

He has no problem killing other criminals who have mothers. Why not kill a guy who can literally end the Earth if he has a bad day?

 

[The Joker]

This right here is the disconnect. What does having s mother have to do with the actual motivation Batman had for killing him? It defies logic. And no one has given an answer to it yet

Batfleck logic; I will kill petty thugs not even one fifth the potential threat level Superman is. I know they're human beings with mothers, capable of family, love and all that other stuff but they shall die anyway. An alien who can bring about armageddon not only has a Mom, but she is also called Martha - you may live.

Someone remind me why this sort of brilliance level writing is sitting on 29% on RT because I don't get it

 

[Poni_Boy]

Actually I think you misunderstood that scene.

I think Bruce realises how far he's gone when he hears the name Martha. It's the fact that Superman has a human mother when Bruce realises that Supetman is more human than he thought. He thought he was killing a godlike being, it shows how far Bruce has fallen and he realises.

What does Superman being human have to do with it though?

"He has the power to wipe out the entire human race and if we believe there is even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty."

What about that changes with him being human (which he's not) with an adopted mother?

 

[Radster85]

I think it's prohibited here to enjoy this movie.
Watching it again in IMAX today and already waiting for SS
Not interested in tracking this threads anymore. It's been great time though, all this waiting for movie, all these news etc
Next one in few months.
"To be successful you need friends and to be very successful you need enemies."

 

[Jekecy]

This right here is the disconnect. What does having s mother have to do with the actual motivation Batman had for killing him? It defies logic. And no one has given an answer to it yet

Humor me; have you ever had a stranger done something which has completely pissed you off or at least ruined your day? And you come to find out said stranger is actually a friend or someone you know? What did you do?

Is it not feasible you've stopped focusing on the act, and rather re-contextualized the incident to now take into account a person with no malice?

 

[Poni_Boy]

(Yeah...why is Joker, Killer Croc, Harley Quinn etc. Alive anyway? Batman killed random thugs in BS. A guy like Joker is way more dangerous...)

The MOMENT he crossed that killing line for the first time he'd go after Joker. Hell, that might be second. The first thing he'd do is track down the guy who killed his parents.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Someone remind me why this sort of brilliance level writing is sitting on 29% on RT because I don't get it

Marvel paid the critics to write bad reviews.

 

[The Endless]

Yet Rotten Tomatoes is owned by Time Warner lol

 

[RadioSha]

This right here is the disconnect. What does having s mother have to do with the actual motivation Batman had for killing him? It defies logic. And no one has given an answer to it yet

????????????

BATMAN. ISN'T. A MONSTER. That's why?

How hard is it for people to understand? We know as the audience that Superman isn't the bad guy. At that point, Batman realizes that all Superman ever wants to do is save and protect.

Batman was so clouded about the POTENTIAL OF SUPERMAN AND WHAT HE IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT HE GOES OFF TRYING TO KILL HIM.

It's not that Superman is evil and that's why Batman wants to end him. It's that Superman has the potential to be evil. It turns out in the end. He's a guy trying to do the right thing. Killing him. ISN'T. JUSTICE.

Alfred disagreed with him and as an audience who knows who Superman is, we disagreed with Batman. And finally, Batman realizes that he was wrong.

What part of Batman realizing that Superman is just a person LIKE HIM trying to do the right thing that is difficult to understand?

 

[MrsKent26]

What does Superman being human have to do with it though?

"He has the power to wipe out the entire human race and if we believe there is even a one percent chance that he is our enemy, we have to take it as an absolute certainty."

What about that changes with him being human (which he's not) with an adopted mother?

Superman seeming more human changes nothing about batman's reason for wanting to kill him. What it does change is his ability to follow through on those desires. I would imagine it's infinitely harder to spear a fellow human to death than it is to spear what batman thinks is a destructive demi-God to death.

 

[LostSon88]

Please answer this: so having a mother named Martha means Superman is human, right? Does it also mean he wasn't responsible for the thousands who died in Metropolis? Because I can't remember one moment in the whole movie where Batman wanted to kill Superman because he was inhuman. He wanted to kill him because he already caused thousands of deaths and can kill millions.

Bruce didn't want to kill him for what happened in Metropolis let's make that clear. This wasn't some sort of vendetta he wanted to avenge. It was made very clear that Bruce wanted to kill him based on his paranoia that he may turn on society one day and cause the extinction of the entire human race.

So he trained, studied found his weakness in an attempt to destroy this "alien" before he destroys us. Again, his entire motivation is based off the paranoia that this ALIEN will one day turn on the human race.

When he hears the name Martha and sees Lois pleading with him not to kill Superman something triggers in him and perhaps he realizes that maybe, JUST MAYBE he's misread this entire situation.

All of the sudden, this alien threat hes been preparing to kill is now just a man in his eyes.

 

[RadioSha]

I can't believe, as a Batman fan, that I have to explain that Batman was in the wrong in trying to kill Superman.

Unbelievable.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Humor me; have you ever had a stranger done something which has completely pissed you off or at least ruined your day? And you come to find out said stranger is actually a friend or someone you know? What did you do?

Is it not feasible you've stopped focusing on the act, and rather re-contextualized the incident to now take into account a person with no malice?

Contextual using the gravity of the situation? If I had found out a stranger set fire to the apartment building next door that killed everyone in it along with my building killing my friends and girlfriend, rationalized in my rage he would easily do it again, then chased and caught the guy, beat him senseless and was about to kill him, but right before I did he said the name of someone I love dearly, I'd probably beat him harder to find out why he said it. then I find out the person he's talking to has nothing to do with the person I lost in my life, I'd still kill him. You know why? It has nothing to do with my I was gonna kill him in the first place.

 

[The Joker]

????????????

BATMAN. ISN'T. A MONSTER. That's why?

How hard is it for people to understand? We know as the audience that Superman isn't the bad guy. At that point, Batman realizes that all Superman ever wants to do is save and protect.

Batman was so clouded about the POTENTIAL OF SUPERMAN AND WHAT HE IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT HE GOES OFF TRYING TO KILL HIM.

It's not that Superman is evil and that's why Batman wants to end him. It's that Superman has the potential to be evil. It turns out in the end. He's a guy trying to do the right thing. Killing him. ISN'T. JUSTICE.

Alfred disagreed with him and as an audience who knows who Superman is, we disagreed with Batman. And finally, Batman realizes that he was wrong.

What part of Batman realizing that Superman is just a person LIKE HIM trying to do the right thing that is difficult to understand?

We understand it, it just makes no sense. How does Superman having a mother suddenly neutralize him as a potential threat? He still had a mother when he was demolishing Metropolis in the fight with Zod. Why does Bruce suddenly believe that might not happen again just because Superman has a mother?

Killing a bunch of petty gun hire thugs isn't justice either, but he had no qualms about doing that. Don't try and tell me he didn't know they had mothers.

The reasoning behind that whole resolution between Batman and Superman was flimsy, half baked, flowery tripe. Bruce abandoned his whole vendetta against Superman for the most idiotic reason.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Superman seeming more human changes nothing about batman's reason for wanting to kill him. What it does change is his ability to follow through on those desires. I would imagine it's infinitely harder to spear a fellow human to death than it is to spear what batman thinks is a destructive demi-God to death.

Which would make COMPLETE sense if Batman WASN'T already a killer. Which he is. Which makes that a mute point.