Bought/Thought Dec 26th (Spoilers within)

[Hush]

Oh I can see it now a parade based on Comic Book Characters/Editors/Writers! That would be awesome! I would go every month.....cause parades dont happen often enough and i think this one should be monthly.

 

[iloveclones]

Wow, way to kiss Slott's ass, everybody.

You guys kiss Dread's ass every week in this thread. What's the problem?

(Sorry, Dread. That's not your doing...)

 

[PhotoJones]

When have I ever kissed Dread's ass?

Read the Quesada quote again: "...and Dan Slott also had some stuff to add." Don't extrapolate.

Look at my history. Look at the work I've produced. Look at my sensibilities. I stand by my track record.

When the time comes and you find out what my involvement brought to the mix, you're probably going to feel silly for making this vitriolic post.

By the sounds of it, you're someone who wasn't crazy about the events of OMD. The last issue's only 5 days old. You're hot under the collar now. I get that. But in the not too distant future, when that time does come, I'm gonna expect an apology. A really nice one. With an EQUAL amount of nice things said about me. And my big fanboy heart.

Please understand that I can't really talk about things right now. And, seriously-- since this is probably the last post I'm gonna make for a while-- I DO wish to extend a very, very, very GRATEFUL "Thank You!" to those of you who have been keeping things in perspective. I can't tell you how much that DOES mean to me!
ttyl
Dan

P.S.
And don't diss Tom. You have NO idea the battles he faces for you people and the characters you love. Seriously. If you guys ever got a backstage look at how thing REALLY work, you'd be naming streets after Brevoort and throwing him parades.

But we don't have a backstage pass, do we? We can only go by what we do know and see. That is our perspective. You talk about keeping things in perspective, but what you really want is for people like me to just take your word for it. You want to be able to say, "It's not what you think. Trust me." Why should I? Because you wrote some good She-Hulk stories? Great. Good for you, Dan. That changes nothing about the nature of OMD/BND.

You say, "I stand by my track record." Do you understand what disappointment is? For me, it's experiencing your great track record for years, and now it's this. This sucks, dude. You know it sucks.

I'm just tired of everyone giving you a "Get out of jail" card because of your track record. Do we do the same thing for JMS? No. Quesada? No. Bendis? No. Millar? No. So, what makes you any different? Nothing, in my eyes. I don't care if you were there at these creative summits and you didn't open your mouth to contribute a goddamn thing. By taking the gig, by supporting the book, you're saying it's okay. You're saying stories for shock value's sake to spike sales are okay. Stunt writing is okay. It's not. It's bull****, and I would've expected someone with your track record would not have supported that.

I love your past work, but I'm not letting you slide for being a part of this great disaster. Other's are clearly more willing to look past it, and that's fine. I'm not.

And to Corp and Dread: No, I wouldn't write Spider-Man under these circumstances. You can call me a fool all you like, but I honestly would not. Aside from the fact that I wouldn't enjoy doing it, and that it would always be looked upon as being a tainted run, I'm not a creative person for the sole purpose of making money. I turn down gigs all the time because I don't want to do them.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Honestly, I think by the time they got to Dan to ask his opinions, it was pretty much a done deal. That's how it seems to me. Quesada probably threw his name in that list so we don't hate on fat ass too much. "Oh, Slott was in on it? Oh good then!"

Dan, I hope you don't stay too pissed, because it's always cool to see talent on these boards. People are mad as hell right now, and rightfully so. I know I am.

 

[PhotoJones]

You might be right. Slott's contribution, whatever it was, may have been null and void at that point anyhow. Doesn't change the fact that he's in full support of a terrible move. It doesn't change the fact that he's using a big "**** You" to the fans to further his own career.

 

[Doc Destruction]

I think it's more of a play-with-the-cards-you're-dealt-with thing for him. I wish he could have gotten on board the Spidey train at a far different time, but this is his dream job, so he's going to attack it full tilt. Can't blame him for that.

Who knows, maybe he can pull the nose dive out of this sucker? I won't be reading it until then, sadly.

 

[PhotoJones]

But see, if those are the cards that you're dealt, why are you playing at all?

 

[Doc Destruction]

Because you've always dreamed of writing Spider-Man books, and now you can. Would you, if you were in his position? I know I would, and I would bust my ass to fix the rotten state of things ASAP.

 

[Sloth7d]

But see, if those are the cards that you're dealt, why are you playing at all?[

To bluff? How else are they going to sell BND? "Hey! Slotts name is on the cover kiddies! It's going to be good!"

 

[PhotoJones]

Because you've always dreamed of writing Spider-Man books, and now you can. Would you, if you were in his position? I know I would, and I would bust my ass to fix the rotten state of things ASAP.

Like I said before: No, I wouldn't. Not under those circumstances, and not by those guidelines. I would not.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Because you've always dreamed of writing Spider-Man books, and now you can. Would you, if you were in his position? I know I would, and I would bust my ass to fix the rotten state of things ASAP.

That was my thinking as well. When I said I would do the same in Slott's shoes and take the opportunity to write Spider-Man, it had nothing to do with money, which PJ assumed for some reason. It has to do with love of the character and fulfilling a dream. "Love of the character" may seem hard to swallow given that OMD just bent the character over and ****ed him hard, but I don't think it's that cut and dried. Yes, OMD made awful changes and set the character back years, but that just means Slott is likely writing the Spider-Man of his childhood rather than his adulthood. I liken it to the first Crisis over at DC. That gave a lot of characters blank slates, but the creators who genuinely loved the characters, rather than swearing them off on principle, came back and worked hard to retain and restore what they perceived as great about those characters. The Spider-Man character is still the same at his core (mostly; except for that deal with the devil for selfish gain part, which I concede is just completely out of character for Pete), and if I were still as big a fan of Spider-Man as I imagine Slott is, given how much fun seems to show in his various writings of Peter, I'd probably try to just get past the bad stuff and focus on the good. This is literally a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for a lot of writers. Could Slott have passed and maybe been offered Spider-Man again later, after OMD had been retconned or undone? Possibly. But he was offered it now, and he's probably dreamed of it for years. It's not about career opportunity or monetary gain; it's about getting the chance to put your mark on a character you love however you can.

Also, like Slott said, we don't really know what his contribution was. For all we know, what he added was MJ's continued presence as Jackpot and a long-term storyline where she and Peter get back together and ultimately undo OMD. Granted, I do agree that it's not really fair to just tell us that we don't know the score and take him at his word that his contribution didn't suck as much as Joe Q's idea to do the whole thing in the first place, but I doubt we'll ever truly get to see the full inner workings of Marvel, unfortunately.

 

[Dan_Slott]

But we don't have a backstage pass, do we?

No, you don't. And you shouldn't. Because then you'd see everything coming around every bend and NOTHING about comics would be surprising, exciting, or entertaining anymore. Before the summits, I LOVED reading each and every issue of my favorite Marvel books-- but now, I know where most of them are going and the stories aren't as fresh for me. But I NEED to know this stuff so I can coordinate what I'm doing in my books-- and provide readers with my best work. That's a hit I take.

It also means that I have to keep my big trap shut and keep everything I know a secret. That's also part of the job. As cool as the backstage pass is-- it's also a double edged sword.

We can only go by what we do know and see. That is our perspective. You talk about keeping things in perspective, but what you really want is for people like me to just take your word for it. You want to be able to say, "It's not what you think. Trust me."

Yes. And I think I've EARNED that trust. Because whatever hints I have dropped about MY up-and-coming stuff-- it's all been 100% TRUE. I might say it in an obscure way, I might try to cleverly turn a phrase and nudge you down the wrong path-- so that you ARE surprised when you get to a big reveal. BUT I HAVE NEVER LIED TO ANY OF YOU. So, yes, you should trust me. Because THAT is part of my track record too.

When it comes to OTHER creators' stories or MARVEL'S major plans-- I can't SPOIL other peoples' work. That's not fair to them. And that would abuse the TRUST they have in me. Do you see a trend here? I think I do a HELL of a job staying in the intersection of keeping MARVEL'S/MARVEL CREATORS' TRUST and TRUST WITH YOU. I think I've comported myself D@MN well in that regard.

So if I tell you to trust me on something, YEAH, I think I've earned it.

Basically, you RIPPED into me for 9 WORDS that were said in an online interview. I have been NOTHING but STRAIGHT FORWARD with you. And all it took was 9 WORDS for you to say I was "ruining Spider-Man", imply that I had NO INTEGRITY, that I'm only in this to "cash checks and keep my belly full". Seriously? You have no idea how much HIGH-paying TV dreck I've been offered to write-- stuff I could totally fit into my schedule if I just started hacking stuff out-- or if just did less LOW-paying comic book work. You think I'm in this for the damn money?! What planet are you on?!

I totally understand that you are VERY passionate about your comics, especially when a BIG change like this occurs. That's great that you have that much passion about something. And expressing that passion about the characters like-- whether Thor can beat Superman-- that's one thing. Curse and swear and take whatever liberties you want. But expressing that passion in terms of REAL people and casting aspersions onto their VERY REAL character-- THAT is what's bull****, sir! That's *****ed up.

I've been on these boards for some time now. I'd like to think that HOW I've comported myself here has earned me some TRUST. At least enough trust that when I ask you to keep an open mind, that you give ME the benefit of the doubt over your PERSONAL INTERPRETATION of 9 WORDS.

 

[Darthphere]

Dan, I've seen your picture, your belly could use a little less filling.

I personally don't understand how Dan can get blame for any of this. I mean, it was going to happen regardless of what Dan did.

 

[Darthphere]

That was my thinking as well. When I said I would do the same in Slott's shoes and take the opportunity to write Spider-Man, it had nothing to do with money, which PJ assumed for some reason. It has to do with love of the character and fulfilling a dream. "Love of the character" may seem hard to swallow given that OMD just bent the character over and ****ed him hard, but I don't think it's that cut and dried. Yes, OMD made awful changes and set the character back years, but that just means Slott is likely writing the Spider-Man of his childhood rather than his adulthood. I liken it to the first Crisis over at DC. That gave a lot of characters blank slates, but the creators who genuinely loved the characters, rather than swearing them off on principle, came back and worked hard to retain and restore what they perceived as great about those characters. The Spider-Man character is still the same at his core (mostly; except for that deal with the devil for selfish gain part, which I concede is just completely out of character for Pete), and if I were still as big a fan of Spider-Man as I imagine Slott is, given how much fun seems to show in his various writings of Peter, I'd probably try to just get past the bad stuff and focus on the good. This is literally a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for a lot of writers. Could Slott have passed and maybe been offered Spider-Man again later, after OMD had been retconned or undone? Possibly. But he was offered it now, and he's probably dreamed of it for years. It's not about career opportunity or monetary gain; it's about getting the chance to put your mark on a character you love however you can.

Also, like Slott said, we don't really know what his contribution was. For all we know, what he added was MJ's continued presence as Jackpot and a long-term storyline where she and Peter get back together and ultimately undo OMD. Granted, I do agree that it's not really fair to just tell us that we don't know the score and take him at his word that his contribution didn't suck as much as Joe Q's idea to do the whole thing in the first place, but I doubt we'll ever truly get to see the full inner workings of Marvel, unfortunately.

PhotoJones, do you realize how badly you're coming off as the stereotypical comic book fanboy?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, at the very least, it's good that someone at Marvel is still honest with the fans and knows how to keep quiet to stay honest, rather than putting themselves in positions that require either lying or spoiling stuff. That really burned me about Joe Q and Mark Millar.

 

[Darthphere]

Well, at the very least, it's good that someone at Marvel is still honest with the fans and knows how to keep quiet to stay honest, rather than putting themselves in positions that require either lying or spoiling stuff. That really burned me about Joe Q and Mark Millar.

PJ really needs to channel that rage at the correct channels, and that would be Steve Wacker.

I'm kidding, it's all Dan's fault.

 

[Darthphere]

Like I said before: No, I wouldn't. Not under those circumstances, and not by those guidelines. I would not.

It's real easy to say that when you know that the chances of you ever getting such an opportunity are like .00000001%. Like it's easy to for me to say I would never give a dude a ******* for a $1,000,000,000, but hey who knows right?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

PJ really needs to channel that rage at the correct channels, and that would be Steve Wacker.

I'm kidding, it's all Dan's fault.

I feel bad for Wacker. He was kind of obnoxious in his recent interviews, but I can sympathize with him. Dude's got nothing to do with OMD and, unlike actual creators who have to work with the material OMD left them with, he can't even be faulted for tacitly approving of it by being employed on it. He's just an editor; his job on any series is simply to make sure things run smoothly. He doesn't necessarily need to actively enjoy the material he's working on. Yet Wacker catches a lot of flak for OMD simply by being there immediately after it. Pretty unfair position that I certainly don't envy.

 

[Darthphere]

I feel bad for Wacker. He was kind of obnoxious in his recent interviews, but I can sympathize with him. Dude's got nothing to do with OMD and, unlike actual creators who have to work with the material OMD left them with, he can't even be faulted for tacitly approving of it by being employed on it. He's just an editor; his job on any series is simply to make sure things run smoothly. He doesn't necessarily need to actively enjoy the material he's working on. Yet Wacker catches a lot of flak for OMD simply by being there immediately after it. Pretty unfair position that I certainly don't envy.

I don't envy anyone on the Brand New Day team. Just imagine those guys dealing with 1,000 PhotoJones at this point.

 

[Ion Kenshin]

I have been reading through this thread for a while and have finally decided to add some opinions on the events of OMD. I have only been collecting comics for about 7 years now which im sure hardly makes me an expert but Spider-man happens to be one of my favorite characters and was actually the reason i got into comics because i felt he was a hero i could relate to. Now i just dont know where i stand with him anymore. Just a mere few years ago all it would take for me to pick up a spidey comic was the fact that it was a spidey comic. Amazing, Spectatcular, Peter Parker, Marvel Knights, etc i bought them all i was all for it. Now all the things that made him fun and relatable to me seem to be fading away. This story arc had the potential to be very emotional yet truthful to life. Peter desperately wants to save his Aunt and will let nothing stand in his way. I see this as something that hit home for me and possibly many others. I feel this would have been much better played it out if Aunt May had actually died despite all of Peter's efforts. It brings a sense of humanity to the story. People die it happens its a way of the world. Instead what do we get ....mystical, magical saving of a life at the expense of his marriage. Personally i saw nothing wrong with the MJ, Peter marriage. Other than Gwen Stacy i see no other person better suited to be with him. Now we are somewhat back to square one, Peter and MJ are no longer together fine i guess i can get over it. But we also see the return of Harry and the webshooters. Now unless that is some sort of flash back to the past i'm confused. Does no one know who spider-man is now, is he still an avenger?? The ripple effect comes into play here. this change had to affect more than just the marriage. Why do writers have this incesant need to go back and change things. Stop living in the past move forward and grow. Every time p a wroter comes along and finds something they dont like from comic stories past they go an change everything. Alternate realities, time travel, magical demon Faustian wish granting, etc. Its ridiculous and get to confusing. The writing for this book needs to step up or I may end up losing one of my favorite and personal heroes. I feel spidey/peter set a good example in life don't make him out to be someone who is no longer relatable to fans like me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't envy anyone on the Brand New Day team. Just imagine those guys dealing with 1,000 PhotoJones at this point.

I'd probably shut myself in and tune out the internet *****ing. Joe Q is the only one the internet fans really want to hear from at this point, anyway. Maybe JMS too, if he's willing to dish more of the behind-the-scenes drama. But I'm sure he's not. Which I don't mind. I'd hate to see him get fired from Thor for breaking some nondisclosure clause in his contract on OMD.

 

[Darthphere]

I feel spidey/peter set a good example in life don't make him out to be someone who is no longer relatable to fans like me.

That's not a problem for me, because I never found him to be relate able. "Oh he was nerdy!" So? He had two hot chicks after his dick, and he married one of them. Seriously, that's not relate able to me at all.

 

[Darthphere]

I'd probably shut myself in and tune out the internet *****ing. Joe Q is the only one the internet fans really want to hear from at this point, anyway. Maybe JMS too, if he's willing to dish more of the behind-the-scenes drama. But I'm sure he's not. Which I don't mind. I'd hate to see him get fired from Thor for breaking some nondisclosure clause in his contract on OMD.

But didn't you hear, he wanted his name off the book.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's not a problem for me, because I never found him to be relate able. "Oh he was nerdy!" So? He had two hot chicks after his dick, and he married one of them. Seriously, that's not relate able to me at all.

That's totally the kind of nerdy I wanted to be in high school. I got the "he's one of my best friends" sort of nerdy instead.

 

[Sloth7d]

I don't get it though. How can we trust Slott when he's promoting a story that promotes character regression?