Comics Boycotting Spider-Man

[Blader5489]

The fans arent being that hypocritical. They want traditional Spiderman stories and feel that they could get that with the marriage. For a decade, they havent been given any changes that make sense or even seem to have an idea where they are going (The Other... okay, and then what? Why is this outrageous change important?) BND is not a return to classic Spiderman because MJ being a superhero is typical 00's filth, and we know its still going to be the same agenda agitprop its turned into. Its not a return just because Jackpot will have a tacky 60's uniform, they are painting this up to look like the 60's, and no one is telling them to actually go back to that. People just want good stories, a supporting cast of regular people, and no insane, meaningless changes.

Again, Marvel is in a complete catch-22 when it comes to pleasing you guys. You say you don't want to return to the 60s/70s/80s but at the same time you reject the current era as "typical 00's filth."

Uh...yeh....we're not going traditional now with Spidey.....MJ was not and is not a superhero who smashes in windshields and fights crime.

Traditional Spider-Man stories, not traditional Mary Jane stories. Obviously the details have changed, but the concept of BND is about turning Peter back into the everyman with a supporting cast that revolves around that.

I just want to point out that this is just yet another hypocrisy on your end, as you claim you don't want to see Peter's dating life again but instantly reject the idea of putting a character like MJ to another use.

 

[kainedamo]

Again, Marvel is in a complete catch-22 when it comes to pleasing you guys. You say you don't want to return to the 60s/70s/80s but at the same time you reject the current era as "typical 00's filth."

I think that's a fairly ignorant statement. Justin just obviously thinks its a 00's thing to make lots of changes that do nothing to progress the characters.

Traditional Spider-Man stories, not traditional Mary Jane stories. Obviously the details have changed, but the concept of BND is about turning Peter back into the everyman with a supporting cast that revolves around that.

I just want to point out that this is just yet another hypocrisy on your end, as you claim you don't want to see Peter's dating life again but instantly reject the idea of putting a character like MJ to another use.

How is this a hypocrisy? Stop being rude to people for no reason and look up hypocrisy in the dictionary please. Justin is clearly saying he doesn't want to see Peter single again. We've been down that road already in the 90's.

Peter is the everyman. The everyman gets married and has kids!

 

[kainedamo]

DING DING DING DING!!! We have a winner!

I don't think I have seen a more utterly hypocritical and negative fanbase than Spider-Man readers. You guys claim you want Peter to grow up and progress as character, but at the same time are completely obstinate towards any change that the character undergoes.

This really isn't true at all. Why are you being so ignorant about this? I myself used to say, "you guys dislike change", but even I didn't say it in such a "I'm right and you're wrong!! grrr!" kinda way.

Look at Peter becoming a teacher. You won't find many here that object to that change. That is because its a positive change that makes sense for the character of Peter Parker, and a nice opportunity to bring in interesting supporting cast. If anything, people complain that we haven't seen enough of Peter being a teacher and the world that would bring him into.

So your first point is wrong

You guys want to see stories that are more traditional, but immediately want to boycott those stories (i.e. Brand New Day) before they even come out!

If you look around the boards, you'll find plenty of people eager to read Dan Slott. Myself included. I LIKE the premise of 3 issues a month, each tying into each other, more supporting cast, etc etc. What I don't like is the premise of One More Day. A storyline designed to wipe out 20 years of history, and to get rid of something not many people have a problem with - Peter being married to MJ.

I would even be willing to bet that people who support the marriage aren't even pro-marriage, but rather anti-Quesada.

This is a really ridiculous notion. Why would people who have never even met the guy take out a personal vendetta against him? I like Quasada. I think many things he's done for Marvel have been great. Some things haven't been so great. But I think overall we're getting better quality stories than what we were getting in the 90s.

With few exceptions, MJ is a mediocre character and the marriage has done little to actually change Peter's life. But apparently getting rid of MJ and the marriage is some great injustice that destroys the character of Peter Parker.

The relationship of Peter and MJ was one of JMS' strong points. He wrote them great together. I think MJ is a great character. I think the marriage does show a growth of the character, and to take the marriage away is a step backwards rather than forwards.

All in all, it would best if Marvel didn't listen to the hardcore fans because they will always cry foul no matter what happens.

You will always find people that don't like a decision, but you will never find a fan that hates EVERY decision

 

[Blader5489]

I think that's a fairly ignorant statement. Justin just obviously thinks its a 00's thing to make lots of changes that do nothing to progress the characters.

Considering we don't know MJ factors into OMD's outcome, or what the Jackpot character is all about, I would say it's fairly ignorant to make any kind of commentary on Jackpot yet.

How is this a hypocrisy?

People want Peter to be back to his regular self again, with a supporting cast. When that happens, those same people cry foul. They want to see Peter married to MJ and grow as character, but when JMS comes along and delivers that, people brand him as the worst Spider-Man writer ever. None of that is hypocrisy?

Peter is the everyman. The everyman gets married and has kids!

That's arguable.

 

[Blader5489]

If you look around the boards, you'll find plenty of people eager to read Dan Slott. Myself included. I LIKE the premise of 3 issues a month, each tying into each other, more supporting cast, etc etc.

Oh really? The title of this thread is BOYCOTTING SPIDER-MAN. 22 people don't want to read Brand New Day; plenty have been vocal about not getting BND in spite of guys like Slott, McNiven, etc.

This is a really ridiculous notion. Why would people who have never even met the guy take out a personal vendetta against him?

That's a good question. I'm ok with Quesada too, so maybe you should direct that question towards the people launching personal attacks against Quesada, branding him the devil, etc.

The relationship of Peter and MJ was one of JMS' strong points. He wrote them great together.

Again, I agree. But people around here revile JMS far more than they do for hacks like Byrne and Mackie.

You will always find people that don't like a decision, but you will never find a fan that hates EVERY decision

No, I think fans here have hated (and prematurely hated) every decision JMS and Quesada have made in the last 4-5 years.

 

[kainedamo]

People want Peter to be back to his regular self again, with a supporting cast. When that happens, those same people cry foul.

You're ignoring the reasons why people are crying foul. We'd all love a good supporting cast - but not if the marriage is sacraficed. There is no reason why there can't be a supporting cast and Peter still married.

They want to see Peter married to MJ and grow as character, but when JMS comes along and delivers that, people brand him as the worst Spider-Man writer ever. None of that is hypocrisy?

Your arguments are basically similar to a child doing the alphabet.... and missing everything from b to y. People hailed JMS for delivering on the marriage except for a small minority. People critisize JMS for - Sins Past and The Other. I think its ridiculous to claim people are being hypocritical when you aren't being truthful about what it is people are criticizing. Most people are more than happy with JMS' portrayel of the marriage up to this point. Its not the reason people were criticizing him. No hypocrisy there.

 

[kainedamo]

EDIT: Double post.

 

[kainedamo]

Oh really? The title of this thread is BOYCOTTING SPIDER-MAN. 22 people don't want to read Brand New Day; plenty have been vocal about not getting BND in spite of guys like Slott, McNiven, etc.

They want to boycott it because Quesada is throwing the marriage down the drain.

hat's a good question. I'm ok with Quesada too, so maybe you should direct that question towards the people launching personal attacks against Quesada, branding him the devil, etc.

I gotta agree with ya there, I find it a little strange when some people launch personal tirades against Quesada.

No, I think fans here have hated (and prematurely hated) every decision JMS and Quesada have made in the last 4-5 years.

This is true only of some people.

I defended JMS back when he was still writing The Book Of Ezekiel and I thought some of the rather ridiculous complaints were unnecassery and unfounded. I think people blow things out of proportion when they talk about a storyline they don't like - because it can always be worse. As witnessed currently with OMD. A nicely written story but with bad decisions behind it.

Up to before Sins Past, I'd say JMS run is one of the best.

 

[Themanofbat]

Fight nice....

 

[farmernudie]

Blader: Traditional Spider-Man stories, not traditional Mary Jane stories. Obviously the details have changed, but the concept of BND is about turning Peter back into the everyman with a supporting cast that revolves around that.

I just want to point out that this is just yet another hypocrisy on your end, as you claim you don't want to see Peter's dating life again but instantly reject the idea of putting a character like MJ to another use.

Traditional Spidey stories include EVERYONE in the story. That includes all the characters and cast, especially one with such a strong leading role a MJ.

It is not truly "traditional" if spidey is the only one written "correctly" and you have everyone else acting bizarrely...the parts effect the whole, always.

And, i am not following AT ALL how it is hypocrisy for one to not want the marriage broken up, or a married Pete (who is just mindwiped or reality wiped) dating other people and at the same time finding it odd to make MJ go from wife to single superhero. Those two things are in no way connected nor are they hypocritical...!...??



I am totally lost on how one would connect them and make that statement.

To hit a retcon button, and magically alter MJ from wife to single superhero is just lame, imo.

Yes i want progression, ...but that doesn't mean sacrificing a marriage and making the one partner suddenly a crimefighter...?? (all after dealing with the devil to turn aunt may into Gollum.) Pete AND MJ are way to smart to do that. Especially right now in their current continuity and dealing with the aftermath of listening to Iron-Man, a "hero"...which is a far cry from now listening to ....Mephisto...??

Oy yoy yoy.

I mean, these characters ARE NOT LIVING AND LEARNING fromt he stories they are put in , and it is obvious. THey are just pawns being moved along in the path that was predetermined to end the marriage. IT doesn't have to make sense and DOESN"T.

Yes, i want Pete's character written well, and thought out, and ALL the characters too...INCLUDING the VILLIANS. Not too much to ask. Mephisto right now is being written illogically and forced..i mean, the whole thing of OMD is so obviously forced...does any one argue that it isn't much of a story at all but an agenda to reach point B???

They want to see Peter married to MJ and grow as character, but when JMS comes along and delivers that, people brand him as the worst Spider-Man writer ever. None of that is hypocrisy?

Hmn...i don't personally think he's the worst ever...and i often liked his interaction btwn Pete and Mj.

And i personally think most people's beef with JMS has not much to do with the marriage (at ALL...) but with some of his quirky odd (in a bad way) stories like Sins Past and Other, (and imo, the whole unmasking). And many don't like his tampering with the origin...turning it into a magical mess instead of a more interesting scientific beginning.

But also to be fair, JQ has stated he had all these stories planned out long ago to LEAD UP TO BND. So how much of many things were truly JMS anyway i'd ask, and not JQ..?

I almost feel like none of this mattered, and in some ways, an attitude here of JQ saying things need to go back to how they were before...so he has just tinkered away with spidey and it has gotten so annoying with fans, where it is now, that like he planned...JQ can now "reset it" and fans will eat it up and he'll get an attitude of "anything is better" that what was 'before".

Lastly, OMD directly leads into the new direction. Which scares me...since OMD is total cheese.

I want no mention of ANYTHING from OMD ever popping up again in another future issue...including Mephisto and his new "diabolical" evil villian schemes to save elderly bullet wound victims in exchange for people's marriages.



I mean...it is so LAME it makes my stare blankly at the page as i wonder how the current issue isn't a joke or a prank and someone ran some "joke pages" instead of the "real story".

I personally am not "boycotting" spidey, because i will continue to buy MANY products..and tpb's i don't have. I LOVE SPIDER-MAN..! However, i am not gonna waste money on current issues that are so bad that even the current writer doesn't want his name attached and has to be "talked into" being acknowledged in any way.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Considering we don't know MJ factors into OMD's outcome, or what the Jackpot character is all about, I would say it's fairly ignorant to make any kind of commentary on Jackpot yet.

Her uniform is AWFUL... What kind of name is Jackpot, Was she bitten by a radioactive slot machine? Does she have Probability altering powers like Longhsot? (If so the name kinda makes sense)

People want Peter to be back to his regular self again, with a supporting cast. When that happens, those same people cry foul. They want to see Peter married to MJ and grow as character, but when JMS comes along and delivers that, people brand him as the worst Spider-Man writer ever. None of that is hypocrisy?

Well I want Peter's supporting cast back, BUT I cannot exchange MJ for Flash, Betty, and Liz...
The JMS disliking comes with the Magical Totem Origin shoving, Goblin Banging Gwen events... other than that He writes a great Peter/May/MJ...


Regarding The big cheese... Joe Q... He's done a GREAT job on other titles but this is a Spidey forum... where Other titles except Spidey related ones are unimportant... Regarding Spidey titles... Joe Q has been Spidey's greatest foe... (Making Gwen do the Goblin mambo was his idea, and all of the other stuff that leads to the Faustus Moment in which either Peter or MJ mightmake a deal with the DEVIL?! was all "Carefully Planned". The only thing I see is Joe Q's Left hand flipping the bird at my face and his right hand hovering over the Reset button... Would I make a better EIC... HELL NO! but I'd know that If I don't feel capable of dealing with certain books... I'd get someone who does respect the characters and has a reasonable knowledge of the character's continuity...

 

[Captivated]

Her uniform is AWFUL... What kind of name is Jackpot, Was she bitten by a radioactive slot machine? Does she have Probability altering powers like Longhsot? (If so the name kinda makes sense)

ROTFL!!! t:

Thanks for the levity... although it's not really funny is it.

Well I want Peter's supporting cast back, BUT I cannot exchange MJ for Flash, Betty, and Liz...
The JMS disliking comes with the Magical Totem Origin shoving, Goblin Banging Gwen events... other than that He writes a great Peter/May/MJ...

Regarding The big cheese... Joe Q... He's done a GREAT job on other titles but this is a Spidey forum... where Other titles except Spidey related ones are unimportant... Regarding Spidey titles... Joe Q has been Spidey's greatest foe... (Making Gwen do the Goblin mambo was his idea, and all of the other stuff that leads to the Faustus Moment in which either Peter or MJ mightmake a deal with the DEVIL?! was all "Carefully Planned". The only thing I see is Joe Q's Left hand flipping the bird at my face and his right hand hovering over the Reset button... Would I make a better EIC... HELL NO! but I'd know that If I don't feel capable of dealing with certain books... I'd get someone who does respect the characters and has a reasonable knowledge of the character's continuity...

I agree.

 

[Sloth7d]

Traditional Spider-Man stories, not traditional Mary Jane stories. Obviously the details have changed, but the concept of BND is about turning Peter back into the everyman with a supporting cast that revolves around that.

I just want to point out that this is just yet another hypocrisy on your end, as you claim you don't want to see Peter's dating life again but instantly reject the idea of putting a character like MJ to another use.

That's faulty logic. It's like saying Making Lois lane an evil version of Braniac wouldn't be any different from traditional Superman stories.

 

[3dman27]

me too i 'm stcking with the marvel adventures,tas and movie spidey the current comics don't work for me

 

[UltimateJustin]

If when JMS came on he used his actually good writing talents to deliver stories that didnt rely so often on shock-value, we wouldnt even be having this discussion.Spiderman hasnt been traditonal in so long, and by traditional I just mean "not ******ed". BND, the explanation for it happening, MJ as a superhero and trying to de-age Peter and just pretend we are several decades ago are the culimation of all of this ridiculousness. Its not hypocritical to be against both, both are not what the fans want.
They want Spiderman, Peter and a supporting cast, and super villians. Engaging stories with relatable ideas. Very few people here relate to being the chosen Spider or whatever. Probably even none of us.

 

[farmernudie]

And this current direction makes me relate even less.

I in real life AM married, so i do relate to Pete growing up and being married now. I grew up along with him, when reading him. The (slowed) progression of him progressing too in life is a plus, in my book.

The CURRENT direction is HARDER to RELATE to....

1.) an old aunt with a bullet wound, dealing with the devil (or my wife doing the deal) to make my old aunt live longer in exchange for.....MARRIAGE???.....of ALL things possible?? Oy vey.



2.) Mindwipes and/or some type of alternate reality changing things

3.) My wife becoming single AND a SUPERHERO...??


The worst part is...this isn't a SELF CONTAINED ARC either....it leads into BND which BUILDS upon what THIS CHEESE is currently establishing. So, it is not like you can just IGNORE it like Sins Past or something.

The entire framework here will be a part of BND.

Besides the marraige ending, which is annoying to wipe out the one strong point of the comics thru the bad times we've had.....the other porblem is the WAY they're ending it...magically and mystically.

I don't want to REVIST Mephisto the evil marriage weenie EVER AGAIN...even when they RETCON this POORLY WRITTEN AGENDA...and bring them together again.

To be clear, I at no point in time want MArvel writing a story where Loki's "pro-marriage magic" trumps Mehpisto's "anti marriage magics". Ther eason being, this particular way to end the marriage will only get LAMER the more they put into it or try to fix it, with this particular route.

The sad thing is, that i WANT to collect spidey, but the stories in some way here on out will be referenced or tied to this...because they'll be the direct result of OMD one way or another.

It'd be like after Sins Past, if every issue somehow was a reminder in the story about Gwen sleeping with norman and there were constant after-effects in every issue, or the goblin kids in every other issue talking about their moomy gwen and daddy norm. IF THIS HAD HAPPENED....it wouldn't matter if they published AMAZING 7X a month with Slott AND McFarlane doing every single issue....it'd be annoying.

The marriage is/was a great thing. And the way they are choosing to end it is a slap in the face. They could have at least done a "Story" in OMD.

 

[littleredhat]

OMD is a stupid pile of stupid but I have been looking forward to Amazing three times a month since it was announced.

Sorry all ye haters I just love spidey too much to quit.

 

[Traveller]

To hit a retcon button, and magically alter MJ from wife to single superhero is just lame, imo.
Yes i want progression, ...but that doesn't mean sacrificing a marriage and making the one partner suddenly a crimefighter...??

I can't see where lame that Mary Jane a superhero.
Let see:
1/ She married with a superhero.
2/ She was always jealous of Black Cat because Felicia is a superhero and she could be a partner with Spider-Man.
3/ She wanted to be a partner with Peter in every way. She couldn't play a part Peter's superhero life, but she always liked to.
4/ If they forget each other, MJ could remember something that connect a life of a superhero. She could feel some kind of subconscious urgent to a superhero life.
And so on. So when everybody could be a superhero, I think Mary Jane is motivated at least.

We'd all love a good supporting cast - but not if the marriage is sacraficed. There is no reason why there can't be a supporting cast and Peter still married.

Most people want a change. But just that change that they want. Obvious changes are boring, we could see that from Mackie's run. Not so obvious changes are wrong. What is the good decision, then?

Look at Peter becoming a teacher. You won't find many here that object to that change.

Peter was a teacher some times ago. So JMS went a step backwards with this.

 

[stillanerd]

You're ignoring the reasons why people are crying foul. We'd all love a good supporting cast - but not if the marriage is sacraficed. There is no reason why there can't be a supporting cast and Peter still married.

EXACTLY! I've never understood the argument made by some "anti-marriage" supporters that Spider-Man can't have his traditional supporting cast if he's married. First of all, it's a completely bogus assertion because there have indeed been stories that featured Peter being married AND interacting with his supporting cast on a regular basis. And second, marriage never took Peter away from his supporting cast; having Spidey constantly team-up with other superheroes like the Avengers to get involved in an endless parade of crossovers while systematically removing members of his supporting cast does.

Plus, look at the stories hinted with the release of the "Spider-Man, Brand New Day bible" that came out: We have Jonah having to step down as publisher of the Daily Bugle and it gets taken over by a rival. We have Peter apparently returning to work as a photographer. We have Peter in the same apartment complex and friends with a cop who considers Spidey a vigilante that needs to be arrested. We have new villains, including another character with a "Green Goblin" motif. We also apparently have Peter's secret identity as Spider-Man restored. And all of this could just as easily have been told with Spider-Man still married to Mary Jane just as well as if he were single. Heck, even the ridiculous idea of Mary Jane suddenly acquiring super-powers and becoming a crimefighter called "Jackpot" could be done with a married Spider-Man--and probably create a far more interesting character dynamic and tension between the two besides. And I'm pretty sure that if Peter and MJ's marriage is "magically erased" after One More Day, and when Brand New Day hits the shelves, the reaction is going to be "Did you really have to get rid of Peter and MJ's marriage to tell these particular stories?"

 

[Blader5489]

You're ignoring the reasons why people are crying foul. We'd all love a good supporting cast - but not if the marriage is sacraficed. There is no reason why there can't be a supporting cast and Peter still married.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying fans wanted to see the supporting cast return to the Spider-Man books (even though it was never truly gone to begin with ), and now that they're getting what they want, they don't want it.

Your arguments are basically similar to a child doing the alphabet.... and missing everything from b to y. People hailed JMS for delivering on the marriage except for a small minority. People critisize JMS for - Sins Past and The Other. I think its ridiculous to claim people are being hypocritical when you aren't being truthful about what it is people are criticizing. Most people are more than happy with JMS' portrayel of the marriage up to this point. Its not the reason people were criticizing him. No hypocrisy there.

Again, I disagree. Judging from some of the comments here, some people don't even know JMS wrote about the marriage at all. Instead, they stigmatize him for stories like Sins Past and The Other, completely ignoring all of the good he has done for the Spidey.

They want to boycott it because Quesada is throwing the marriage down the drain.

Boycott =/= eagerly anticipating BND.

I defended JMS back when he was still writing The Book Of Ezekiel and I thought some of the rather ridiculous complaints were unnecassery and unfounded. I think people blow things out of proportion when they talk about a storyline they don't like - because it can always be worse. As witnessed currently with OMD. A nicely written story but with bad decisions behind it.

Which is exactly why I can't take threads like these seriously, especially when you have people saying the Clone Saga or Mackie's stories are better.

EXACTLY! I've never understood the argument made by some "anti-marriage" supporters that Spider-Man can't have his traditional supporting cast if he's married. First of all, it's a completely bogus assertion because there have indeed been stories that featured Peter being married AND interacting with his supporting cast on a regular basis. And second, marriage never took Peter away from his supporting cast; having Spidey constantly team-up with other superheroes like the Avengers to get involved in an endless parade of crossovers while systematically removing members of his supporting cast does.

Did I ever say that bringing back the supporting cast required getting rid of the marriage?

 

[stillanerd]

Did I ever say that bringing back the supporting cast required getting rid of the marriage?

I didn't mean you specifically, hence why I said SOME not ALL. Sorry, I should have made that a bit clearer.

Nevertheless, I have read arguments made by some who felt that the marriage was a mistake that tried to assert that Spider-Man being married--as opposed to constantly having him pair up with the Avengers or writing out or outright killing off members of his supporting cast--is what distances him from his traditional supporting cast like Jonah, Betty, Robbie, Flash, etc. because he spends too much time with Mary Jane, that being married to her and interacting with his supporting cast doesn't mix, and that one of the reasons for getting rid of the marriage was so he can interact with that supporting cast once again. To me, as I stated, it's a ridiculous assertion to make.

If, however, the argument is that Spider-Man shouldn't be married because, conceptually, he's supposed to be a teenager learning how to become a responsible adult which is something younger readers can identify with--that's a valid argument, which I imagine is your position. However, just how you get back to something close to that is the problem, and using some sort of magical alteration of history a la DC comes across as cheap and was something Marvel, including Joe Q, has often publicly stated that it was above using such tactics. There are better ways (and some have actually came up with some pretty decent ones on this board) to actually do this.

 

[JayTee]

Spider-Man is basically dead to me.

This decade destroyed the character beyond recognition. Whether its Tobey Maguire freezing in social fear when spoken to, mask on or off - Spider-Totems - A hipster younger Peter who's a web designer and says "um" a lot - A killer with stingers - A clone cacoon of dead skin or whatever (twice) who can speak to bugs and ditches his web shooters (and subsequently utility belt) - Iron Man's sidekick

Dead. Dead and buried, there's no way around it, the 2000's was the final straw for me and this character.

Does ANYone, I mean ANYone remember what it was like to pick that book up and watch him swing sky high with thought bubbles above his head? The witty, tough-lucked but not suicidally depressed Peter Parker?

 

[farmernudie]

Well, at least you're not a Mephisto fan.

He's resorting to schemes of ending marriages while saving old ladys with bullet wounds.

haha...

But yeh....i can feel your spidey-pain.

 

[Miss Webb]

LOL, I was going to say we needed your opinion on this, SpideyNOrbs, until I realized you posted this in the first place!

But really, OMD has become the train wreck no one can turn away from...I personally have no real problem with it so far. However, there are some things I'm definitely up to 'here' with...

The tiresome, whiny Peter who is guilty about every stupid thing, including sunrises. Is he really that guilty, or is it a cover for something else? It's bordering on psychopathic.

The power and responsibility line. I swear, ENOUGH. WE GET IT!

Not to mention Joey Q's ugly art. If I want Bizarro, I'll read Bizarro. For Cripes sake, someone call Garney back!

 

[antonydelfini]

I'd be a fool not to give it a try. If it's good, then good for me. If it's bad, it's so easy to drop it.