The Dark Knight Rises Bruce Wayne/Batman's characterization...

[The Batman]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are often interpreted as showing a batman who's on a learning curve, and is thus, more optimistic, more of a rookie, etc. With the third film, people are expecting Bruce to become "Classic Batman"....but then again, what is classic Batman? There are many...

IMO, reading some threads here, people want to see the Batman that existed from around the mid 90's to 2005-That of the overly gothic, dark, brooding Batman. I for one hope we dont see this persona. There was a reason it was done away with in the first place. What's your take on how this "classic Batman" in B3 should be portrayed?

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

The Goddamn Batman.

 

[chintai80]

for me, "classic" Batman is an amalgamation of his characterization from the 30s, early 40s, 70s, and 80s decades. And a bit of the early 90s. I think we got this with The Animated Series. BB and TDK was pretty close to this too, imo.

The problem with the mid 90s-2005 Batman is they tried to mimic The Dark Knight Return's Batman. But they forget that Miller was writing him as a bitter old man by that time.

 

[Mario_Galaxy]

Seriously though, I'd say the Batman of the BTAS.

 

[Bubastis]

I think the Bruce Wayne of the third film needs to be hit hard by the events of the Dark Knight. The life he wanted and needed to be happy wasn't just taken away, it was destroyed. He's forced to be Batman now. Dark Victory comes to mind. The more locked up emotionally he is, the better. Let this guy disconnect from humanity. Let it hurt.
Batman being a hero, movie just OK.
Batman in pain, movie great.
Give this guy some drama. Rip up his heart. Make him find something in gotham or within him to fight for.

 

[Bubastis]

I'd also just like to say that I think from a dramatic standpoint my favorite moment in the Dark Knight may have been the moment where Bruce was doing everything in his power to keep tears from spraying out after Rachel died and Alfred brings him breakfast
Seeing somebody cry doesn't do anything for me. Seeing somebody try as hard as they can not to cry brings me to their level.

 

[Ziggyman]

Hopefully they stay away from a a whiny Luke Skywalker-esque Bruce for the third movie...That right there would rin the film right from the get-go...!

 

[Rasputin911]

for me, "classic" Batman is an amalgamation of his characterization from the 30s, early 40s, 70s, and 80s decades. And a bit of the early 90s. I think we got this with The Animated Series. BB and TDK was pretty close to this too, imo.

The problem with the mid 90s-2005 Batman is they tried to mimic The Dark Knight Return's Batman. But they forget that Miller was writing him as a bitter old man by that time.

Exactly. He isn't as aggresive and sadistic and obsessed in Year One. Both work great on their own, but when people try to mimic them they suck.

However, i do think we need to see more of Batman's "do i look like a cop?"/"i'm counting on it" side. I wanna see criminals piss their pants around him.

 

[BestGirl]

Exactly. He isn't as aggresive and sadistic and obsessed in Year One. Both work great on their own, but when people try to mimic them they suck.

However, i do think we need to see more of Batman's "do i look like a cop?"/"i'm counting on it" side. I wanna see criminals piss their pants around him.

It would be cool if Batman played on his new murderous reputation to scare crooks.

 

[ThePoisonPuppet]

It would be cool if Batman played on his new murderous reputation to scare crooks.

Exactly. It's easy to forget that the no killing policy is for Batman's own moral benefit, not because he is letting the criminals off the hook.

 

[Anita18]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are often interpreted as showing a batman who's on a learning curve, and is thus, more optimistic, more of a rookie, etc. With the third film, people are expecting Bruce to become "Classic Batman"....but then again, what is classic Batman? There are many...

IMO, reading some threads here, people want to see the Batman that existed from around the mid 90's to 2005-That of the overly gothic, dark, brooding Batman. I for one hope we dont see this persona. There was a reason it was done away with in the first place. What's your take on how this "classic Batman" in B3 should be portrayed?

I prefer the non-*****ey Batman in TDK. He doesn't have to try to be dark and broody, he inherently is by virtue of what he does. But he certainly doesn't go out of his way to be cold and callous to everybody. He cares about Gordon, about Dent, about Rachel, and about the Gotham civilians. It's when a bad guy is face-to-face with Batman, does he turn the badassery on you. I think that's how it should be. We can't forget that Bruce Wayne really is a good person, despite his personal pain.

 

[The Batman]

I prefer the non-*****ey Batman in TDK. He doesn't have to try to be dark and broody, he inherently is by virtue of what he does. But he certainly doesn't go out of his way to be cold and callous to everybody. He cares about Gordon, about Dent, about Rachel, and about the Gotham civilians. It's when a bad guy is face-to-face with Batman, does he turn the badassery on you. I think that's how it should be. We can't forget that Bruce Wayne really is a good person, despite his personal pain.

Agreed. One of the things nolan and his team are good at are knowing which elements of the past twenty years are good, and which ones need to be disposed of. While we'll probably see a darker bruce, he'll still be the man who was in BB and TDK

 

[Tatsumarushinob]

All very good posts indeed. I'd like to see the Batman from the Justice League animated series. Very authoritative, brooding and incredibly smart. And of course, takes crap from no one.

 

[Artistsean]

I think, realistically, Batman is someone who sees horrible traumatizing stuff on a regular basis with no off time. I think eventually he would reflect that, perhaps being more closed off, darker, grim, maybe even more volatile. Perhaps even loosing himself in the darkness of Batman, in his mission.

 

[COMPO]

it would be good if we saw a Batman liek the in the AS episode "I am the Night" where he is doubting whether he is really doing any good as the strain of the police chasing him and the public hating him.

 

[Artistsean]

I think if you looks at the arc of the character
In Begins Bruce becomes Batman to save Gothem,
in Dark Knight he finds how far he would go and

Spoiler

looses his oldest friend and possibly only love

So I think in the third

Spoiler

especially because of loosing Rachel

he might retreat more and more into being Batman.

 

[The Guard]

I just want him to stop blaming himself for stuff he has no control over.

Blaming yourself for Jason Todd's death is one thing. Blaming yourself that The Joker kidnapped your love interest and murderer her? Or that Ra's Al Ghul took over your city?

 

[BestGirl]

I just want him to stop blaming himself for stuff he has no control over.

Blaming yourself for Jason Todd's death is one thing. Blaming yourself that The Joker kidnapped your love interest and murderer her? Or that Ra's Al Ghul took over your city?

Well, the Joker was inspired by Batman, and theoretically Batman could've stopped the Joker's killing by turning himself in to the cops. It's hard not to feel guilty when people are telling you "you've brought this on us" and "this is all your fault!"

Bruce's guilt over Ra's just stems from his saving Rah's' life. Obviously it was the morally correct thing to do at the time but it had terrible consequences for Gotham later on. It's not so much that Bruce feels guilt as much as he regrets having done what he did. You'd feel the same way if you made a decision you believed was right only to have it hurt many thousands of people later on. Besides, this is the guy who partially blames himself for his parents' death even though he obviously wasn't at fault. Batman's tough with criminals, but he's even harder on himself.

 

[The Guard]

Well, the Joker was inspired by Batman, and theoretically Batman could've stopped the Joker's killing by turning himself in to the cops.

So wait...a terrorist says "Just turn yourself in and stop being there to stop horrible things from happening as Batman...and he's supposed to take The Joker's word for it? That makes all kinds of sense.

It's hard not to feel guilty when people are telling you "you've brought this on us" and "this is all your fault!"

Maybe if you're not a mature human being who cannot think logically. Myself, when people tell me I've done something, I only feel guilty if I've actually done something.

Bruce's guilt over Ra's just stems from his saving Rah's' life. Obviously it was the morally correct thing to do at the time but it had terrible consequences for Gotham later on.

Doesn't matter. What Ra's does to Gotham is still not Bruce's fault. If the movie Bruce Wayne blames himself for other people's actions...writers have missed the point entirely.

It's not so much that Bruce feels guilt as much as he regrets having done what he did.

"What have I done, Alfred? Everything my family built..."

"What have I done".

Yeah. He's just regretting what happened.

You'd feel the same way if you made a decision you believed was right only to have it hurt many thousands of people later on.

No I wouldn't. Especially if my decision had no direct effect on anything. I don't usually feel guilt for other people's actions. I feel sorry for people when bad things happen, but I do not blame myself when someone else does something horrible.

Besides, this is the guy who partially blames himself for his parents' death even though he obviously wasn't at fault.

That's all well and good. It's one thing to believe something as a child, and even to carry bits of that into adulthood. It's another, as an adult, to blame yourself for something that clearly, clearly isn't your fault.

Batman, in the comics is "hard on himself" in that he forces himself to the best he can be so that as few people as possible suffer. He hates to lose people, he wishes he could save everyone. He doesn't blame himself for their losses.

 

[Anjow1060]

I'm ready for the cold, unforgiving, almost inhuman "cold" Batman.

We already know he's gonna hit an emotional brick wall at 100mph when Alfred finally reveals what Rachel felt about him. I could see very well, Bruce trying to "finish" the Batman era and rid the city entirely so that he can be with Selina only to have it backfire on him personally and drastically. It may do LOADS of good for the city, but in the end, Bruce will pay the price for it....again. The city will come to love Batman again, but Bruce Wayne will no longer exist just short of keeping up appearances.

- Jow

 

[Anita18]

So wait...a terrorist says "Just turn yourself in and stop being there to stop horrible things from happening as Batman...and he's supposed to take The Joker's word for it? That makes all kinds of sense.

Rachel: "Do you honestly think that'll keep the Joker from killing people?"
Bruce: "Maybe not, but I have enough blood on my hands."

I don't think he doesn't feel "regret" per say, but if he turns himself in, nobody will blame him for not trying everything he could. If his turning himself in can stop people from being killed, he'll try it. He's not thinking about the ones he couldn't save in the past, he's thinking about the people who can be saved.

The city will come to love Batman again, but Bruce Wayne will no longer exist just short of keeping up appearances.

- Jow

IMO, Bruce Wayne already no longer exists short of keeping up appearances. He wanted the deal with LSI because he wanted to see if Lau was helping the mob launder their money. He throws Dent a fundraiser because Dent is helping Batman's cause of cleaning up the city. Bruce Wayne rescues Reese because that's what Batman would do.

 

[Anjow1060]

that's not why he helps dent.

If dent is paid in full, then once the mob goes down with Lau he can hang it all up and be done and be happy with rachel. That's exactly how I interpreted it. Dent lays out an offer to "the batman" without even knowing it when they all have dinner together. Bruce takes him up on it.

- Jow

 

[BestGirl]

Maybe if you're not a mature human being who cannot think logically. Myself, when people tell me I've done something, I only feel guilty if I've actually done something.

But he did do something. He broke the law when he became a vigilante, and Gordon warned about escalation at the end of BB. Now, in TDK, people are accusing Bruce right and left of being at least partially responsible for the madness that the Joker's brought on Gotham. Bruce would have to be an unfeeling machine not to care, and he hasn't gotten to that emotional point yet.

Doesn't matter. What Ra's does to Gotham is still not Bruce's fault. If the movie Bruce Wayne blames himself for other people's actions...writers have missed the point entirely.

Comic Bruce may not feel qualms over the unintended consequences of his actions but clearly movie Bruce does. It's just a different interpretation; one that you don't like but I feel humanizes him. A Batman who didn't worry at least a bit over what impact his actions have had on others would be almost sociopathic imo.

No I wouldn't. Especially if my decision had no direct effect on anything. I don't usually feel guilt for other people's actions. I feel sorry for people when bad things happen, but I do not blame myself when someone else does something horrible.

You are a stronger person than I am. If I performed a well-intentioned act that backfired massively and hurt a lot of people I'd definitely feel a strong amount of responsibility. That sense of guilt would be magnified if my well-intentioned act was outside the bounds of the law in the first place.

That's all well and good. It's one thing to believe something as a child, and even to carry bits of that into adulthood. It's another, as an adult, to blame yourself for something that clearly, clearly isn't your fault.

Batman, in the comics is "hard on himself" in that he forces himself to the best he can be so that as few people as possible suffer. He hates to lose people, he wishes he could save everyone. He doesn't blame himself for their losses.

Nolan's Batman is clearly hard on himself both physically and emotionally. As I said, it's simply a characterization that I like and I feel is realistic. Batman is just starting out and it'll be a while before he can emotionally shut himself down to the point where he can insulate himself from a sense of guilt over the losses incurred in his crusade. Maybe we'll see a tougher and colder Batman by the end of the third movie.

 

[The Batman]

that's not why he helps dent.

If dent is paid in full, then once the mob goes down with Lau he can hang it all up and be done and be happy with rachel. That's exactly how I interpreted it. Dent lays out an offer to "the batman" without even knowing it when they all have dinner together. Bruce takes him up on it.

- Jow

Not really....Bruce paying for dent just made things alot more easier...even if he didnt throw the fundraiser, dent is already popular enough that he's not hurting for cash....i believe he did it both because he likes and respects dent, and because he wants to hang up the mantle

 

[Anita18]

Batman is just starting out and it'll be a while before he can emotionally shut himself down to the point where he can insulate himself from a sense of guilt over the losses incurred in his crusade. Maybe we'll see a tougher and colder Batman by the end of the third movie.

Making Bruce more human I think resonates with the audience more. If he stops caring, then why go on as Batman at all? There's an even finer line of his actions - is he trying to protect innocents, or does he just wants to beat bad guys up? Leaning toward the latter would make him akin to Punisher.

In TDK it's a mix of both, but his heroic selflessness shows when he goes to save Reese (why should he care if Reese dies, beyond the fact that he wouldn't be able to divulge Batman's identity?), and when he takes the fall for Dent.

Having Bruce lose his humanity by becoming tougher and colder would certainly be a character arc, though. And it would probably be the greatest downfall and tragedy shown in the trilogy.