BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 6

[Zur-en-Arrh]

someone said batman gleefully kills in this movie--is that hyperbole, or is he shown gunning goons down with the batmobile's machine guns, all while laughing like a maniac? is there any wiggle room for 'maybe they lived' or are his actions explicit and the audience is left without a shadow of a doubt that this batman kills?

 

[The Guard]

I'd argue there wasn't intent there, not like there is in this. By the by, when did he use gun's in TDKT? Not questioning, just can't seem to remember.

That's a pretty ridiculous argument. When you point a gun at someone, your intent is to hurt them or stop them.

The Tumbler, The Batpod and The Bat were all equipped with guns. Which he used. Quite a bit.

He reminded me of Homer Simpson in THE DARK KNIGHT where he's using his gun for simple tasks that he should otherwise be able to accomplish.

 

[Tony Stark]

Except that the Nolan movies featured a Batman who used guns and killed, even when he said he wouldn't. I don't see how that's all that accurate to the baseline. The Nolan films made sizeable changes to the character as he is generally portrayed.

The only person he kills in the Nolan films is Harvey Dent, and the circumstances of how that happens are understandable, and he even risks his own life to do so, all in the means of trying to save a life.

The "guns" he uses aren't firearms. He has an EMP gun, a smoke grenade launcher, they are gadgets not weapons.

No one is saying you can't have a slightly different take on the character. But if in this film Batman is flat out murdering people that's a line that only Burton crossed and it cost him his job.

 

[BatSpider]

And that's why you can't see the problem with this approach.

I dont think TDK was anywhere near an approach catered to kids at all

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

And that's why you can't see the problem with this approach.

i argued this point last year and was surprised how many people didn't think kids should be considered for super hero movies. your point about an adult star wars is a great way of phrasing it.

 

[TripleJ]

And that's why you can't see the problem with this approach.

So, what about WB/DC creating multiple products aimed at kids?

Do those not count or anything?

Or should superhero movie have this absolute rule of appealing to all ages?

 

[Deserana]

That's a pretty ridiculous argument. When you point a gun at someone, your intent is to hurt them or stop them.

The Tumbler, The Batpod and The Bat were all equipped with guns. Which he used. Quite a bit.

He reminded me of Homer Simpson in THE DARK KNIGHT where he's using his gun for simple tasks that he should otherwise be able to accomplish.

I'd argue he only once killed with intent in TDKT and that is Miranda Tates driver. So he has done it but nowhere near the amount it sound in BvS.

If the intent is to do a Batman movie about crossing the line then that's fine IMO but at the moment it sounds weird.

 

[sf2]

I'll admit it is interesting though to see the media and governments turn on Superman and try to control him and conflict him and make him feel like an outsider. See that's what I'm confused about. I want a story about hope but at the same time this premise sounds really intriguing if done well.

It's interesting to see how conflicted Supes would be about himself if he's a force of good or not. But then you don't get the joyful Supes. I'm conflicted myself at this point.

challenging, isn't it? we didn't get a joyful supes.. and all my worries actually did come true. yet i love this movie. because it is the movie superman deserves.

 

[The Guard]

The only person he kills in the Nolan films is Harvey Dent, and the circumstances of how that happens are understandable, and he even risks his own life to do so, all in the means of trying to save a life.

And the shooting of Talia's truck with a missile that he does in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES?

The "guns" he uses aren't firearms. He has an EMP gun, a smoke grenade launcher, they are gadgets not weapons.

He has more traditional guns, too. He uses an outright cannon to shoot things with The Tumbler and The Batpod. And The Bat. Bullets and missiles.

Any gun is a tool/gadget. It is also a weapon.

No one is saying you can't have a slightly different take on the character. But if in this film Batman is flat out murdering people that's a line that only Burton crossed and it cost him his job.

Batman killing people didn't cost Burton his job. Batman Returns being too dark, macabre and weird a film in general was the issue.

 

[Zalker87]

He dropped it so he isn't a standout when all the reviews are counted.

Everyone from Collider gave it a decent score except for 1 guy. Which is fine and they can do that.

But the guys from Superhero News said they can't score it because they need to see it again. They said there's way to much that was introduced that they need to rewatch.

One of them said that this movie was long over due and that he couldn't take his heart and mind out of it because of the characters he witnessed on screen. I liked that because it shows how important these characters and this world is to people.

I'm seeing it tonight and I haven't been spoiled by anything so I'm excited. And all these reviews can say what they want but honestly I know this movie is better than the tomato score it has.

 

[Matt]

Are you saying that this "selfish" fandom (as in people who like the darker approach) should stop supporting what they like for the sake of the children?

No, I am saying that people are generally full of ****, actually. I don't buy for a second anyone here's idealized version of Batman kills or Superman is a dark, gloomy emo. But I think they are so desperate to like it and defend Snyder that they will say "**** these characters, **** the general audience! Snyder is right! We want darkness!"

 

[danoyse]

I dont think TDK was anywhere near an approach catered to kids at all

And again, it doesn't need to be "catered". It can be a movie that adults and kids can enjoy together.

Batman is one thing, he's the darker character. But Superman? He shouldn't be that dark.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

we have officially crossed the 100 rotten review marker

Fresh: 48
Rotten: 101

32%

 

[Tony Gunk]

In my personal opinion, no blockbuster Superman film (especially one attempting to launch a franchise) should have complaints of there being nothing in it for kids.

It's Superman, the thought of them taking this route really does sadden me.

 

[Mr.T]

Take Zootopia... I took my kids to see that movie and it has an amazing RT score. I didn't think it was very special. It was certainly not at Toy Story levels. But you see that 99% and think it must be the second coming. I wish sites would use film scores instead. The RT score is much less important to the film score it lists underneath the RT score but in much smaller font.

Looking at the RT score should be done in a like/dislike basis only. It's not an overall score where the movie is dissected into different categories and applied to an overall scoring standard. RT doesn't work that way. The product on screen is either good or bad. It's a very broad brush to paint it with, but it's effective at giving the general audience a good gauge on the product.

Zootopia was a good movie and 99% of the critics said yes. I happen to agree with them, it was a good movie. Check the unsplattered tomato for me and move on. Now if we want to argue over its place in the animated movie world of the last decade, then that's a different animal to take on.

 

[danoyse]

So, what about WB/DC creating multiple products aimed at kids?

Do those not count or anything?

Or should superhero movie have this absolute rule of appealing to all ages?

What about WB/DC wanting their gazillion-dollar budgeted mothership of a movie franchise to appeal to a broader audience and make lots more money?

General audience doesn't enjoy this depressing **** either when it comes to these movies.

 

[Stark Bauer]

someone said batman gleefully kills kin this movie--is that hyperbole, or is he shown gunning goons down with the batmobile's machine guns, all while laughing like a maniac? is there any wiggle room for 'maybe they lived' or are his actions explicit and the audience is left without a shadow of a doubt that this batman kills?

Can we keep this kind of talk in the spoiler thread please

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

challenging, isn't it? we didn't get a joyful supes.. and all my worries actually did come true. yet i love this movie. because it is the movie superman deserves.

Is the film really as bleak as everyone says?

I love the premise. But at the end of the day I want a scene where Superman explains his philosophy to the people and tells them what he's trying to do. I want it to end on a hopeful note with the world realizing why we need Supes. The working class hero, who despite not being from here, adores humanity and believes on a fundamental level that everybody is capable of good.

But something tells me if they did that then people wouldn't be complaining as much.

 

[Kane52630]

I've always gotten the impression since MoS that Snyder only cares about Batman and almost nobody at WB/DC dont know or care about Superman.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Get Edgar Wright. He must be hungry to stick it to Marvel.

Why? Because Marvel managed to make Ant-Man a success without him?

 

[samsnee]

I still don't give a damn about critics. Most of them are losers who tries to earn some career out of doing nothing and going by what's trendy in their social circle. It's like lowest of the low jobs. People who can't do it themselves criticizing "professionally" the professionals to earn some cash.

Posters that true to themselves gets my attention eighter they like the movie or not.

Wow, people who don't like what I like suck, their jobs suck, their families suck, and if they were in charge of the department of suck, they would suck at sucking.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Everyone from Collider gave it a decent score except for 1 guy. Which is fine and they can do that.

But the guys from Superhero News said they can't score it because they need to see it again. They said there's way to much that was introduced that they need to rewatch.

One of them said that this movie was long over due and that he couldn't take his heart and mind out of it because of the characters he witnessed on screen. I liked that because it shows how important these characters and this world is to people.

I'm seeing it tonight and I haven't been spoiled by anything so I'm excited. And all these reviews can say what they want but honestly I know this movie is better than the tomato score it has.

And that's the correct way to review something. If you watch a movie but walk out with mixed emotions or being confused, watch it again before you run to your computer to get your review up as soon as possible. If you take critiquing a movie seriously, wait for the film to properly digest. If it's a movie you care about, like the Collider and SuperheroNews guys, wait until you can form proper thoughts. See it again. If you think you shouldn't have to see it again, fine put that in as your review. Didn't understand or comprehend or like everything on one viewing and that can be the basis of a lower score on it's own.

 

[The Guard]

I'd argue he only once killed with intent in TDKT and that is Miranda Tates driver. So he has done it but nowhere near the amount it sound in BvS.

If the intent is to do a Batman movie about crossing the line then that's fine IMO but at the moment it sounds weird.

I'm not really interested in arguing the amount of times or his direct intent. The characterizations obviously are not the same, and for good reason. This Batman is a broken man.

He has used weapons, and he has killed in cinema, period.

The question was whether it happened at all, which it did.

Suddenly we're okay with Batman kiling if he kills a few times, or once?

 

[Matt]

And again, it doesn't need to be "catered". It can be a movie that adults and kids can enjoy together.

Batman is one thing, he's the darker character. But Superman? He shouldn't be that dark.

Bingo. These are not mutually exclusive concepts. Batman can be dark without gunning people down. A Batman movie can be dark without being so dark that it is inaccessible to a wide portion of the audience, hell inaccessible to the audience that these characters were CREATED FOR. A movie can be both mature and accessible for all audiences (the Nolan trilogy for example). And if you can do it with Batman, you can certainly do it with Superman.

 

[sf2]

In my personal opinion, no blockbuster Superman film (especially one attempting to launch a franchise) should have complaints of there being nothing in it for kids.

It's Superman, the thought of them taking this route really does sadden me.

no kid friendly doesn't mean it has nothing in it for kids. in a way, a bit like SR.

it... is just a little heavy.. not light hearted like the marvel movies.