BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 7

[HauntedKnight]

Oh lord, are we playing that card now? We all know a director had nothing to do with the story or script.

I think people give the director too much credit on every little decision, good or bad. Sure he may have signed off on it, but it doesn't mean he wrote it.

 

[Matt]

A quote from Cavill...

“What is really going to matter, I believe, is what the audience says,” the Brit explains, “Because they’re the ones who are buying tickets, they’re the ones who want to see more of this kind of story or not and so the audience’s voice is loudest and after this weekend the audience, at least partly, will have spoken.”


I don't know if this is necessarily true for audiences as a whole, I think these are the kinds of stories that SOME people want to see. They want that "real world", gritty, darker version of Superman that you get in comic books at times. I can understand that as a desire. If you are a dedicated, hardcore fan of that work, then why wouldn't you want it?

The thing I have a problem with is the version they like is that it's a "take" on the Superman character and not the definitive version of Superman. This is just my opinion (and perhaps the opinion of many others based on the feedback), but major feature films in wide release based on one of the most iconic and popular fictional characters in American history should probably give us something closer to the definitive version, not some "take" on the character. A "take" probably belongs to the smaller scale, such as television shows and cartoons.

One thing most people are not expecting when taking your children to see a Superman movie is a dark and brooding hero within a bleak, depressing landscape. That's not the way the character has been portrayed to the general public over the last almost 80 years. Maybe this is the version most hardcore fans want, but most people want a heroic version closer to Reeve. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's what people expect and I think rule #1 to all storytelling (Snyder, are you listening?) is you must meet your audience's expectations or otherwise you've failed.

When The Onion is making fun of your movie's bad reception and poor reviews are trending on Twitter, you have far bigger problems than a few critics.

 

[writer0327]

Ironically kid version of me would have loved Deadpool. I know it's rated R but still. The critical reaction to this movie has all the makings of a case study on how RT/critical reaction and WOM can make or break a franchise.

Deadpool would have appealed to many of us as kids. Deadpool was full of jokes, gags, pop culture comedy, and a ton of other irreverent things that make little kids giggle.

 

[Supernova]

Too bad they're going out of their way to distance the TV universe from the movie universe.

I may be wrong but wasnt snyder the only one on record saying that the tv and movies are seperate? Very dumb especially given grant gustin is a hit in the role and him in the movies and tv show would only help. imagine in a given episode affleck/cavill or gal showing up or mentioning them randomly. Plus WB could of done it agents of shield style where the show could help setup the movie in some aspects.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Snyder on the bad reviews:

"I’m a comic book guy and I made the movie based as much as I could on that aesthetic. And so I don’t know how else to do it 100%, so it is what it is."

Like I said, he thinks translating the visuals of the comics to live action is the be all/end all of adapting the comics. Doesn't care about understanding the characters. Doesn't care about understanding repercusions of their decisions. If it looks cool, that's it.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

god, what is affleck thinking. he's a genuine talent, takes a second crack at super heroes, is the one thing that's well regarded and then this reaction to the film lands in his lap. this is where the justice league drama again intrigues me, as i'm wondering what he's saying to warners. sure, maybe he likes zack snyder, but if he's gonna reprise batman, then changes need to be made, etc. and all of this just two and a half weeks before the next one is scheduled to begin filming. this whole enterprise, from 2013 comic-con until april 11, 2016 is going to make a great hollywood read someday.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Snyder on the bad reviews:

Ho. Lee. Christ.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Sndyer's Superman makes a lot of sense when you realize that Snyder is a fan of Ayn Rand.

 

[TheScarecrow]

god, what is affleck thinking. he's a genuine talent, takes a second crack at super heroes, is the one thing that's well regarded and then this reaction to the film lands in his lap. this is where the justice league drama again intrigues me, as i'm wondering what he's saying to warners. sure, maybe he likes zack snyder, but if he's gonna reprise batman, then changes need to be made, etc. and all of this just two and a half weeks before the next one is scheduled to begin filming. this whole enterprise, from 2013 comic-con until april 11, 2016 is going to make a great hollywood read someday.

This film is a net positive for Affleck.

He does a great job with terrible material.

The material is so bad though that it holds him back from being the definitive Batman.

 

[danoyse]

My screening last night had a bunch of kids in it. One group in particular of around 10 year olds was very upset after it was over. They looked and acted like they just got out of a hostage situation. One of their mom's was trying really hard to make them happy saying "let's get some ice cream who wants ice cream" over and over. Why a superman movie would want to affect kids in this way is beyond me.

Omg, that's awful.

 

[T"Challa]

My screening last night had a bunch of kids in it. One group in particular of around 10 year olds was very upset after it was over. They looked and acted like they just got out of a hostage situation. One of their mom's was trying really hard to make them happy saying "let's get some ice cream who wants ice cream" over and over. Why a superman movie would want to affect kids in this way is beyond me.

Out of everything i've heard, this probably bums me out the most. I mean this is a 2.5 hr movie with Superman and the first appearance of Wonder woman. Kinds should be walking out of this film pumping their fists and happy as hell and yet we get this. Not to start any Marvel DC BS but i'll never forget walking out of Avengers midnight showing in Chicago and seeing dozens of kids running around in glee like they had drank a gallon and a half of redbull spiked with coffee. That meant something. BvS shouldnt be Avengers like in tone but it has to be a joyous occasion for all fans, young and old. This is just so disappointing

 

[Poni_Boy]

It's a shame that Chris Evans' Cap is a better superman than the actual Superman is in these movies.

100% agree

No it's not flirting.

It's literally Superman giving zero you-know-whats.

Spoiler

Him and Lois later have a conversation about how he has nothing to apologise for.

He doesn't want[BLACKOUT] to be a hero, it seems. It's "too hard." Further, I don't think he knows what being a hero is.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Stark Bauer]

Spoiler

Wolfgangamadeus posted: Superman kills AGAIN? I thought they learned their lesson after last time?

Okay. That's it. I'm officially leaving this thread. I said no spoilers dammit. What I quoted wasn't originally with spoiler tags so I figured I would add them in my own post smh

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

Sndyer's Superman makes a lot of sense when you realize that Snyder is a fan of Ayn Rand.

yeah, i said earlier, when i read he wanted to adapt the fountainhead, everything suddenly made sense.

 

[TripleJ]

A quote from Cavill...

“What is really going to matter, I believe, is what the audience says,” the Brit explains, “Because they’re the ones who are buying tickets, they’re the ones who want to see more of this kind of story or not and so the audience’s voice is loudest and after this weekend the audience, at least partly, will have spoken.”


I don't know if this is necessarily true for audiences as a whole, I think these are the kinds of stories that SOME people want to see. They want that "real world", gritty, darker version of Superman that you get in comic books at times. I can understand that as a desire. If you are a dedicated, hardcore fan of that work, then why wouldn't you want it?

The thing I have a problem with is the version they like is that it's a "take" on the Superman character and not the definitive version of Superman. This is just my opinion (and perhaps the opinion of many others based on the feedback), but major feature films in wide release based on one of the most iconic and popular fictional characters in American history should probably give us something closer to the definitive version, not some "take" on the character. A "take" probably belongs to the smaller scale, such as television shows and cartoons.

One thing most people are not expecting when taking your children to see a Superman movie is a dark and brooding hero within a bleak, depressing landscape. That's not the way the character has been portrayed to the general public over the last almost 80 years. Maybe this is the version most hardcore fans want, but most people want a heroic version closer to Reeve. Is that fair? Maybe not, but that's what people expect and I think rule #1 to all storytelling (Snyder, are you listening?) is you must meet your audience's expectations or otherwise you've failed.

I do agree. I think that was a mistake on WB's part - allowing Snyder to make a film that's not appealing to children.

Although to be fair, WB did allow creatives to take lots of liberty with Batman, and it worked out well. Perhaps they thought it might work with Superman.

It will be interesting to see how this movie fares internationally, especially among audiences who aren't limited to Donner's take on Superman.

Well, it seems like the context here is flirting with Lois. Great context.

Have you seen the film?

Watch it before you judge it. And I am not defending BvS. Just Snyder's take on the characters. His take is just as valid as others.

You don't have to like it, I may not either (I do like what he did in MOS. BvS, I will know in a few hours).

 

[danoyse]

While I do have some issues with the Supergirl show, I'm enjoying the series and the tone of the show is much more in line with how I like my Superman.

it's fun, uplifting, optimistic. y'know.........hopeful.

Read this letter a mom wrote to the Supergirl cast. In all this BvS drama, it will restore your faith in humanity: http://www.chicagonow.com/portrait-...enoist-and-chyler-leigh-from-an-adoptive-mom/

 

[Wolfgangamadeus]

https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/post/141606956421/henry-cavill-fan-response-to-batman-v-superman-is

let the damage control begin!

Actually reading Snyder's comment makes all the sense in the world. He still thinks the problem is the aesthetic.

“I’m a comic book guy and I made the movie based as much as I could on that aesthetic,” Snyder told us, “And so I don’t know how else to do it 100%, so it is what it is.”

Everything to him is about how it looks and feels. Not the actual material and creative choices.

 

[samsnee]

"What the hell are those two doing with their mouths?" - Zack Snyder

I bet Gustin is actually glad he didn't get cast in this mess.

 

[The Riddler]

i feel like zack should not be a director, but some kind of consultant. he has a great eye for action and setting up things visually, but that should be the extent of his involvement.

 

[Zarex]

While I do have some issues with the Supergirl show, I'm enjoying the series and the tone of the show is much more in line with how I like my Superman.

it's fun, uplifting, optimistic. y'know.........hopeful.

I hate Superman's pseudo presence in the show - I'd rather they sent him off on an extended space mission - and Kara's two male colleagues are bland and blander. But Benoist is terrific and her character's relationships with Flockhart, Leigh and Harewood are wonderful.

I'll be setting aside time with my family this week to watch a founding member of the Justice League team up with a Kryptonian. But it will be on the small screen.

 

[Tony Gunk]

People simply throwing spoilers out there now ought to be ashamed. There are still people in here excited about seeing the film, so have some damn respect.

 

[danoyse]

Out of everything i've heard, this probably bums me out the most. I mean this is a 2.5 hr movie with Superman and the first appearance of Wonder woman. Kinds should be walking out of this film pumping their fists and happy as hell and yet we get this. Not to start any Marvel DC BS but i'll never forget walking out of Avengers midnight showing in Chicago and seeing dozens of kids running around in glee like they had drank a gallon and a half of redbull spiked with coffee. That meant something. BvS shouldnt be Avengers like in tone but it has to be a joyous occasion for all fans, young and old. This is just so disappointing

When I saw Avengers opening weekend, I saw a dad there with two kids dressed as Thor and Captain America. Full costumes.

We're finally getting Wonder Woman - who I'm SO excited for because I loved the TV show as a kid - and we can't take little girls to see their first superhero.

 

[Lily Adler]

100% agree



He doesn't want[BLACKOUT] to be a hero, it seems. It's "too hard." Further, I don't think he knows what being a hero is.[/BLACKOUT]

So it doesn't [blackout]end with Superman learning that the world needs a savior and decides to be it after all...[/blackout] Oh hopeful will kill someone once she hears this.

 

[Frankeh]

Like I said, he thinks translating the visuals of the comics to live action is the be all/end all of adapting the comics. Doesn't care about understanding the characters. Doesn't care about understanding repercusions of their decisions. If it looks cool, that's it.

Maybe he needs to drop directing and become a DP.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I don't think WB was expecting the reviews to be this poor, they probably figured it would land somewhere around MOS. Otherwise you're right in hindsight, they should've lifted the embargo on the release date. Granted the fans and educated viewers would suspect the movie is not that good if WB did that, but WB probably wouldn't have left as much money on the table.

The big problem is that now the term "embargo" is tainted. Wasn't that big a deal with F4 but this is making headlines. And one of the consistent points that is brought up is how WB embargoed the movie till the last possible minute.

So now when people hear "embargo" what are they gonna think?

Spoiler

Superman goes to Africa to save Lois. It was a trap set my Luthor. Jimmy Olsen (who is actually a CIA guy undercover as a cameraman) gets executed. Lois is taken prisoner. When the mercenaries hear Superman incoming they bug out. Lois gets used as a human shield by the warlord. Superman lands in the building with them. Lois drops her hands from the warlord's arm that's around her and nods to Supes. He smirks in an "I understand" way. Then spears the warloard at superspeed, busting through the stone wall of the building and through the next building.

Right? RIGHT?