The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - - - - Part 18

[KBX]

Thanks. I might just get one printed. Can you PM this to me so I don't lose this in this thread?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free...-eagle-flag-American-SSR-Lycra/962940253.html

 

[RickCoronel]

Absolutely loved it. It was game-changer for me, I totally it dig total justice to Rogers. Top of the best for me, enjoyed it even more than Avengers and that was something I didn't think could happen.

If I could've had 10 more minutes of Falcon, Sharon, and Rumlow it would be even more perfect. Seeing it again at 12pm, 6pm on Saturday, and again on Monday.

 

[kosh33]

I'm going to possibly wear pants when I see the movie Monday! Maybe! I'd give it a 65% chance!

why so late WT?

 

[TWayneP]

Unlike iron man 3 and Thor 2, I WILL be buying TWS on blu ray. I'm finally back in the game after two stinkers.

 

[First Avenger]

Man,there is hate for IM3 and TDW in almost EVERY thread.

 

[The Endless]

Iron Man 3 is awesome. People whining about the Mandarin thing need to get over it. Tony Stark has a great character arc, the action is creative and the villain is actually well developed and poses a threat to the hero. Also has some great satire streaked throughout.

 

[Easter Lily]

I really enjoyed IM3. Thought it was on par with 1 (yes, not conventional opinion). Loved the Mandarin thing, loved Ben Kingsley's other persona... it was such a hilarious film. And I am exceedingly fond of Guy Pearce in whatever he does.

Thor isn't my favourite but Thor and Loki doing a double act is always loads of fun.

But Cap 2 is great... not taking anything from that one. I'm not sure if I would call it a gamechanger though.

 

[kosh33]

its a game changer for the way the marvel cinematic universe is set up

 

[hoy-small-fry]

My big problem with IM3 is the ending - Tony blows the suits up for NO reason, and then suddenly he can take the shrapnel out of his chest? Bad storytelling

 

[Easter Lily]

its a game changer for the way the marvel cinematic universe is set up

That I get.

 

[The Endless]

My big problem with IM3 is the ending - Tony blows the suits up for NO reason, and then suddenly he can take the shrapnel out of his chest? Bad storytelling

It's not for no reason. Him blowing the suits up is catharsis. He was obsessed with constantly making new suits because of his insecurities and paranoia that he was nothing without them. Throughout the film he realises he doesn't need the suits to be a hero. Like he said at the end, HE is Iron Man, with or without the suits.

It's a really good character arc that is unfairly overlooked by comic book fans because of the Mandarin thing.

As for the shrapnel? I don't know. It remains to be seen.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

I thought the Mandarin thing was really clever, so that wasn't an issue for me. Just the needless suits bit and the inexplicable shrapnel. That bit alone left me with too many questions. Rest of the film is great

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'll say this about IM3 and TDW. After watching TWS, there is no excuse for what IM3 and especially TDW lacked. While each of those films have their good points, IM3 more so then TDW, TWS pretty much brings it all together for a showcase on what Marvel Studios should strive for. It is not perfect, but it is so good.

TDW let its characters down with a very thin story (TDW feels like an early draft or outline), while Tony was the only one doing anything truly interesting in IM3. TWS had compelling, fully realized arcs for Steve, Nat, and Fury. All the supporting characters and villains were interesting and had strong moments in terms of comedy and badassness. It also never loses itself in terms of narrative.

The Winter Soldier says about three words. Infinity more compelling then not only the villains in IM3 and TDW, but arguably everyone but Tony in those films.

 

[Drz]

Yeah TWS raises the bar of Marvel movies, it's TWS's quality that Joss Whedon should amaze at, not Iron Man 3.

 

[AnneFan]

Seeing this in a few hours.

 

[The Endless]

I thought Killian was a great villain with a good motivation and plan. The twist was genuinely shocking and well plotted.

But yes, HYDRA and their use of Winter Soldier was also great. That's the thing, TWS is different in that it doesn't really have a singular "big bad". Basically, the whole "establishment" is the big bad.

Still, IM3 was a great character piece. Stark's arc was brilliantly done. In TWS Steve doesn't really have an arc. Not necessarily a negative, but because he's a static character, interesting as he is, it allows for more characters around him to shine. IM3 was simply about Stark and his journey, and it was one of the best in any comic book movie in my eyes.

So for me, IM3 and TWS are Marvels best films. For different reasons.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Seeing this in a few hours.

Hope you have a good time.

 

[kosh33]

every story is different and told in the words of different directors and storytellers... just because cap2 is exceptional, doesnt make the movies before it suddenly lacking or bad.. they are different characters with different backgrounds and in different situations..

there are only parts of a whole marvel universe.. every part has been memorable and enjoyable to me.. doesnt have to be the same for others

 

[AnneFan]

Hope you have a good time.

I think I will - the reviews have been superb.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought Killian was a great villain with a good motivation and plan. The twist was genuinely shocking and well plotted.

I am a big fan of Guy Pearce and I do like his casual nature in the film. The twist works because Kingsley sell the hell out of it. But the motivation, plan and execution are Acme level. Tried, test and eventually blows up in your face.

But yes, HYDRA and their use of Winter Soldier was also great. That's the thing, TWS is different in that it doesn't really have a singular "big bad". Basically, the whole "establishment" is the big bad.

That is what I call good writing. If you are going to solo your villainy you better bring a Darth Vader, Joker, Loki, Bane, Silva, etc.

Still, IM3 was a great character piece. Stark's arc was brilliantly done. In TWS Steve doesn't really have an arc. Not necessarily a negative, but because he's a static character, interesting as he is, it allows for more characters around him to shine. IM3 was simply about Stark and his journey, and it was one of the best in any comic book movie in my eyes.

Steve has an arc in TWS. It is as strong as Tony's in IM3, while actually engaging other characters. Steve's entire identity is questioned. For the first time since waking up he has been forced to learn how to "live" and to do so in a time that does not agree with him. Captain Steve Rogers has the ultimate version of PTSD. He is seemingly only comfortable on a mission, when given an order and asked to act. That seems to be because no matter the time and era, orders are still the same for a soldier. And then as the curtain begins to part, he starts to realize that even those orders aren't what they use to be.

There is also the question of what others are asking from him. Who is Fury asking him to be? Pierce? Natasha? One of the reasons I think Sam has been getting so much love, is that he takes the role of the audience. He does not question Steve. He fully embraces our Captain, and follows him into the breach without a second thought. He is a borderline Captain America cheerleader, but then you have those heady discussion about what it means to stop being a soldier, and if it is even really possible.

Arguably the best thing about TWS is that it was able to tell a story and allow everyone involved to play. And it pays massive dividends. Natasha's arc is pretty great stuff, and the same with Fury.

So for me, IM3 and TWS are Marvels best films. For different reasons.

TWS
TFA
Avengers
IM
Thor
IM3
TIH
TDW
IM2

 

[The Endless]

I'm not sure. Steve isn't comfortable when given orders. As shown when he pays Fury a visit after the opening on the boat.

I think Steve is of that mindset throughout the film. But again this isn't a negative. A character doesn't have to have an arc to be a well written character. In the end Steve doesn't change, because he doesn't really need to. He is the fixed moral point of the film. He is the shining example of a truly altruistic hero. That's what is great about him. He doesn't need a tragedy like Batman or Spider-Man. He doesn't need a moment of self reflection like a Tony Stark. He is just naturally a earnest and altruistic guy.

It's everyone else around him, like Widow, who change as the film goes on.

 

[kosh33]

acme level pointless explosions and damage were the main talking point of another superhero movie from last year which i shall not name..
the villains listed are not comparable with each other... darth vader is a man on a mission enduring the pain of his wrong path, the joker a crazy psychotic with no remorse, loki is more of a trickster with no clear villainous intentions, bane was just a muscle like in so many other movies but now with a mouth piece which made his hard to hear and shrouded any emotions on his face.. silva is just another bond villain, no one will remember in a few years time

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm not sure. Steve isn't comfortable when given orders. As shown when he pays Fury a visit after the opening on the boat.

The reason Steve is mad is because as I pointed out, he is learning about how orders have changed. Gone are the days of the "right war". That is the disillusionment that leads him to the Captain American display and [BLACKOUT]Peggy's bedside[/BLACKOUT].

When Steve isn't on a mission, he has to deal and well that hurts. He is basically dwelling, and really how can he not? Dude doesn't even have friends. Where Sam and Natasha really come into play. You know you are in trouble with the Black Widow is trying to set you up.

I think Steve is of that mindset throughout the film. But again this isn't a negative. A character doesn't have to have an arc to be a well written character. In the end Steve doesn't change, because he doesn't really need to. He is the fixed moral point of the film. He is the shining example of a truly altruistic hero. It's everyone else around him, like Widow, who change as the film goes on.

What do you mean by set "mindset"? The guy is conflicted throughout. As he points out, he doesn't know what the "right thing" is anymore. And who says a character has to "change" to have an arc? Steve finding resolve in who he is and his role in this world is most definitely an arc. It is exactly what happens to Tony in IM3 and you love that so much.

acme level pointless explosions and damage were the main talking point of another superhero movie from last year which i shall not name..
the villains listed are not comparable with each other... darth vader is a man on a mission enduring the pain of his wrong path, the joker a crazy psychotic with no remorse, loki is more of a trickster with no clear villainous intentions, bane was just a muscle like in so many other movies but now with a mouth piece which made his hard to hear and shrouded any emotions on his face.. silva is just another bond villain, no one will remember in a few years time

So basically the problem is that they are compelling. How dare a villain be compelling.

 

[bluerayer]

If all goes as planned i'll be seeing it tomorrow!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If all goes as planned i'll be seeing it tomorrow!

Then lets all hope it goes to plan.