Chapter 39 - “Angels and Monsters” – Discussion Thread 10/13/08

[RockSP]

Sylar on the other hand I like a lot more when he's playing the good guy.

Making Sylar a "good guy" is just stupid. How do you go from a mass murdering psycho villain for the first 2 seasons to a "good guy"?

 

[chaseter]

He isn't good? He is just conflicted. But we don't know where his character is going yet so we will see. God forbid the writers add some dimension to a character that was basically a 1 dimensional linear kill and move to the next kill bad guy. Also, he was pitting Claire against HRG in the car He is still a bad guy.

 

[stillanerd]

This episode started off okay but then kept improving bit by bit. And then, by the last fifteen minutes...wow. We got some nice, patened cliffhanger like the show usually dished out (needs all the help it can get at this point).

Of course, there were a few things that seemed a bit off. For starters, the whole MohinDUH! becoming Brundlefly is just really not doing it for me. Maybe it's because the motivation of wanting to become special in the first place was a bit off from the start, or maybe it's because it appears obvious that he's rounding up these people because he's trying to find a way to reverse the effects (which, given last weeks episode we know he appears to fail). Or maybe it's because Maya still ended up being alive even after using her ability on him (yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm mean). Whatever, the sooner this plot line is over and done with, the better.

One storyline that actually had promise is the revealation that not only was Tracy was artifically given powers, but so was Nathan. Which gives rise to the question Nathan himself asked as to how many other people's powers are artifical? Also, since we see another one of Mama Petrelli's dreams that shows Nathan, Tracy, and Peter all dead and then encountering her husband, this makes me think that who we thought was Niki or Tracy in Angela's first dream this season was actually Barbara and that she's the bad one. Course, this could mean that, rather than having Ali Larter's character battle herself psychologically via multiple personalities as before, it's going to be Ali Larter playing two seperate characters battling each other physically.

The Claire storyline was pretty predictable to be quite honest. Obviously, when she met the Vortex guy to apprehend him, it would turn out that he was imprisoned due to a misunderstanding, that all he wanted was to see his family, and that, of course, he was going to die at the end (Pretty much figured he was going to use the Vortex power on himself to commit suicide the moment Claire found him at the merry go-round) all to make us feel sorry for him and to blur the lines just like Sandman in Spider-Man 3 and just as ham-fisted. However, it was the wrap up that was really impresive. Noah goading the Vortex guy to kill Sylar at gunpoint showed us another moment in the annals of HRG bad-assery. Likewise, Sylar once again using psychological manipulation to try and make Claire distrust her adoptive father to suggest he's the real bad guy, capped off with a devilish smirk after Claire and Noah left the car was another moment of bas-assness from Sylar.

Speaking of bad-ass moments, Hiro certainly made it seem like he went down the path to the dark side at the end. I mean, actually stabbing Ando? Obviously, we know that Ando survives somehow, and that Hiro is only doing this so he can figure out who has the formula and somehow get it back. Still, I totally did not see that coming. And what was interesting was that it started off comedic, such as the teleportation hijinxs with Hiro putting Adam back in the coffin to make him cooperate, their arrival in the bar complete with Hiro making a Star Wars reference, Ando trying to operate an unconscious Hiro's power by opening and closing his eyelids, and Ando going off about how much he and Hiro suck. And yes, their sucking as heroes that would explain how they didn't hear Knox sucker punch Adam and load him into a truck in the same frigging alleyway! I mean, come on, they can't be THAT stupid, can they?

Another moment that was a real surprise, however, was when we saw Peter, having come back from the future, almost kill his mom. And yet, oddly enough, Mama Petrelli still loves him, considering the way she nestles him like a Peita after Sylar knocked him out. Seems to me Peter is still her favorite with Sylar apparently being second, while Nathan (since he was artifically given powers) is dead last.

I'm hoping that the next episode with the fat guy that can apparently control other people's bodies like the Puppet Master delivers on it's creepy premise, what with that dinner scene with Claire's mom and the guy's doll collection.

Of course, the two big revelations (which to some degree were very predictable) was that "Linderman" was actually a hallucination conjoured up by Parkman's dad, and that Mr. Pettrelli is still alive, although clearly in some veggitative state and yet still very much alert. And whatever power he's got, it's obviously something which makes his own wife scared of him and a guy who can manipulate minds like Maury afraid of him as well. Another telepath? Hypnosis? Something that relates to how he told Angela that she couldn't move and she was frozen for a moment after her dream was over? Is he like that Puppet Master guy that's kidnapped Meredeth? We'll see, I guess.

 

[LadyVader]

I'm halfway with this episode and I think it's a massive drop in quality. Any bit of character development has flown out the window. Apparentely evil and goodness are spread around like they're the f**king common cold.

 

[marukisu]

...

 

[He-Man]

That was parkman's dad? i ddint recognize him are you sure it was him?

Yep. That was him.

 

[Not_Sane]

I felt that this episode was alright, could have been much better, but not worse. I just wish that for once they would just follow one character and show whats going on with them instead of going to five different characters in one episode. There is barley any character development.

Hiro is really starting to bug me, he never listens to the right people. And the whole Niki/Tracy/Barbra thing is really starting to piss me off. I think the only thing I truly like is Sylar's character development.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Farewell, Andre Royo, we barely knew thee...

 

[04nbod]

that was the best episode since the one where hiro tried to stop his father from dying. So much happened I can barely remember it all but I just have this buzz after watching it.
Ando can't be dead, he just can't. I won't have it. Angela is a good guy! You know all this episode needs? Mr Deveaux, with all the elders coming together I really miss him. Also I found myself back in love with Adam and loving Sylar so much. The season is hitting its stride! The only let down was Maya's stupidity, Neighbour missing +giant blood stain on the floor apparantly doesn't warrant police involvement

 

[Tyrinus]

I'm liking this season.

But anyone else wonder why they had to dig up Adam's coffin? Couldn't Hiro have just teleported it out of the ground...isn't that how he got it there?

 

[The Apocalypse]

i guess hiro is "badass"..wow

No..he's an *******. But he did stab Ando who is hopefully dead.

 

[04nbod]

I can see why Ando should stay dead. Season 2 really devalued death in the show but I wish it didn't have to be Ando, I'd rather it was Hiro.

 

[Primal Slayer]

To bad it seems like Meredith cant use her powers like Elle in the sense that Elle can use her powers throughout her body whereas it seems like Meredith may only be able to harness her powers through her hands. It wouldve been funny to see Meredith burn the guy with her lips when they had to kiss.

 

[The Sage]

I'm having a hard time understanding Peter's hunger for power. He automatically copies another person's abilities, why does he need to cut their head off? Peter proved in the last episode that he can figure out how the ability works when he used superspeed. Am I missing something?

 

[LadyVader]

Peter's powers have always been undermined by lousy writing. More than half the combat situations he's been in and lost would've resolved in his favour should the writers have remembered that he can freeze time, read minds, etc. Case in point, he could've easily read Mama Petrelli's mind to get to her secrets, instead of trying to get at her brain. But then again the whole thing is just so stupid the fact that Peter's powers are yet again poorly represented is just a minor detail.

 

[Steyin]

Peter's powers have always been undermined by lousy writing. More than half the combat situations he's been in and lost would've resolved in his favour should the writers have remembered that he can freeze time, read minds, etc. Case in point, he could've easily read Mama Petrelli's mind to get to her secrets, instead of trying to get at her brain. But then again the whole thing is just so stupid the fact that Peter's powers are yet again poorly represented is just a minor detail.

Matt tried reading her mind before and couldn't do it. Angela isn't some chump that doesn't know how to handle herself, she knows how to avoid that power.

Also, I'm re-upping my post to see what others think and to show how things are linking to last season now:

A lot of things are making sense now. I'd guess Arthur was the one who attacked Angela back in her cell in S2.

I'd even go out on a limb and say that perhaps he was controlling Adam to kill of the people who would get in his way. As for Maury, I have a feeling he may have been acting like he was being targeted when he was really in cahoots with Arthur the whole time to get rid of Matt (didn't plan on Nathan being with him), and since that didn't pan out hes now going to try to recruit them. This is probably not the case, but I could see it happen.

Now all I wonder is how powerful Arthur really is.

Yet it seems Arthur may be the strongest person in terms of mental power considering the attack on her in her cell (if it was him), how he seems to project himself in her dream and how he paralyzed Angela and she could do nothing about it.

 

[Dark Donnie]

Farewell, Andre Royo, we barely knew thee...

yeah WTF was that about? The only part I didn't like.

 

[Halcohol]

I'm having a hard time understanding Peter's hunger for power. He automatically copies another person's abilities, why does he need to cut their head off? Peter proved in the last episode that he can figure out how the ability works when he used superspeed. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. Now that Peter has Sylar's power, he also has the murderous hunger to cut their brain open and SEE how their power works.

 

[LadyVader]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

 

[shadowdog]

I'm not sure if Ando's dead
I'd like to imagine the death of his best friend would be the thing that got him over his fear of going back in time, so that he can grab Ando just before he stabbed him and take him back....which would change the past, but....I don't know, I'm confused, time travel is confusing

 

[GL1]

God forbid the writers add some dimension to a character that was basically a 1 dimensional linear kill and move to the next kill bad guy.

Wow...

Season 1 Sylar:
Plastered 'Forgive Me' all over his walls, serial killer style
Showed his desire to be special came from his upbringing
Showed remorse at the thought of "all those innocent people" dying
Went to Kirby Plaza, not to blow up, but knowing Peter was the bomb.

That hardly sounds one-dimensional to me.

Peter's powers have always been undermined by lousy writing. More than half the combat situations he's been in and lost would've resolved in his favour should the writers have remembered that he can freeze time, read minds, etc. Case in point, he could've easily read Mama Petrelli's mind to get to her secrets, instead of trying to get at her brain. But then again the whole thing is just so stupid the fact that Peter's powers are yet again poorly represented is just a minor detail.

I think that up until a certain point in season 2, it was pretty clearly explained why Peter didn't have control over his abilities. Season 2 was a stretch since it reset him, but they removed the thing that stopped him from mastering his powers quickly as well. Season 3 is just abusive. There's no way anywhere that Future Peter, who's quick enough to stop gunfire with Hiro's power, should ever have any problem with anything, even the Butterfly Effect. Peter's powers weren't hit by lousy writing until mid-season 2, imho.

I'm not sure if Ando's dead
I'd like to imagine the death of his best friend would be the thing that got him over his fear of going back in time, so that he can grab Ando just before he stabbed him and take him back....which would change the past, but....I don't know, I'm confused, time travel is confusing

For my money:
Pinehearst recovers Ando and Adam and uses Adam's healing blood to revive Ando and the formula to give Ando powers. Boom.

 

[shadowdog]

that's a good idea, hmmmm

 

[Exploding Boy]

Yes, you are missing something. Now that Peter has Sylar's power, he also has the murderous hunger to cut their brain open and SEE how their power works.

And more than their powers, he wants to understand whats going on in their heads.

 

[absonic93]

I actually like Maya, and I hope she's ok. I can't wait for the fight between Nathan, Tracy and Mohinder! Hopefully Maya learns more control over her power, like singling out a victim so she can kick Mohinder's ass without killing innocents.

 

[louiebling$]

This probably a given but the whole reason they kidnapped
Adam was to use his blood on Arthur Petrelli