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Chapter 42 - “Villains” – Discussion Thread 11/10/08

"Sad" or not, it's fairly simple when you know what parameters to search for, and the context they're in. I knew what I was talking about and he didn't. There's no shame in proving that, especially when it's so easy to do.

It's a TV show. Even better, it's a message board. He doesn't like the show. Who cares.
 
Wow, going back more than a year to prove a point.

Sad doesn't begin to describe it.
 
I thought this was a great episode, why the hate on it? It explained alot and was fun. Im psyched for next week and Hiro better keep his powers!
 
I thought this was a great episode, why the hate on it? It explained alot and was fun. Im psyched for next week and Hiro better keep his powers!

he can just teleport out.. leaving ando on hes own.... therefore leading to them testing the new formula on ando, giving him powers and turning him against hiro, thus giving us Hiro's vision of the future in the first ep (think it was the first?) just a theory, even if Hiro loses hes powers now the eclipse episode is the one after this, so he wil lgt them back soon, seems pointless taking them away for one episode!
 
he can just teleport out.. leaving ando on hes own.... therefore leading to them testing the new formula on ando, giving him powers and turning him against hiro, thus giving us Hiro's vision of the future in the first ep (think it was the first?) just a theory, even if Hiro loses hes powers now the eclipse episode is the one after this, so he wil lgt them back soon, seems pointless taking them away for one episode!

he isnt going to lose his powers, or as you say if he does hell just get them back

but arthur is going to erase his memory...so he cant warn anyone
 
I actually liked this episode a lot. It seemed to get back to the season one formula a bit with focusing on specific characters, and providing backstory. Not sure I dig where how the Sylar aspect went down. But it seemed to fit pretty well.

I loved the claude shoutout with the invisible man taking flint down.

This is probably the least annoying Hiro's been in an episode since mid season one. probably due to his minor supporting role. but still. a high note.

As for Matt's take on HRG and the inner workings of Primatech. He had no interaction with Angela, Arthur or Linderman in this episode. He knows of Bob, but if Bob was working under people, and it's a chain of command, and HRG is getting his orders from Thompson. I don't see how that flubs up any of his season one characterization. He was still just an agent, taking orders from the person above him. The whole point of the first few seasons was for Noah to start to question blindly taking orders. Taking a look at who and what is around him.
 
That is if the eclipse even gives people powers i mean its possible yes but it may just be a symbolism thing.
 
Arthur's a power hungry Man, he probably is trying to steal all the Heroes powers he can so no one can stop his plans .

he already has hiros powers because he has peters powers...he really doesnt need to steal any anymore
 
Finally caught this episode after forgetting it was on last night. And just like the comic books this series is inspired by, there's a lot of retconning going on. Some of it was inspired (Meredeth not only worked for the Company and is Flint's sister, but she unintentionally caused the very train accident that made Claire come to the rescue from season 1)...

Some of it was pretty bad (so now not only is Sylar not really bad because his powers can make him crazy, it was the Company--i.e. Elle under HRG orders--which pushed him over the edge to become a serial killer? I understand they're trying to have it be part of this moral ambiguity that's been going on all season, but this is turning Sylar into an anti-hero is really overdoing it now.)...

...And others just seemed totally contradictory (we've been told that Arthur's "death" was the result of "suicide," now they're saying it was a "heart-attack" from Angela's poisoned soup? Does this mean that Tim Kring, like George Lucus with Star Wars, has to go back through season 1 and redo certain key scenes in order to change this?).

Of course, it was a shocker having Arthur show up at the end and apparently absorb Hiro's ability or erase his memories like he did Angela's in the flashbacks. Although, considering how he killed the "African Issac," it pretty much goes to show that that character was nothing more than a plot device in order to have a "future" episode and a "flashback" episode. Not to mention that he turned out to be a waste of time.
 
And others just seemed totally contradictory (we've been told that Arthur's "death" was the result of "suicide," now they're saying it was a "heart-attack" from Angela's poisoned soup? Does this mean that Tim Kring, like George Lucus with Star Wars, has to go back through season 1 and redo certain key scenes in order to change this?).

Angela changed the story to suit her needs.

In the season one episode "Don't Look Back" she told Peter he died of a suicide, but in the season one episode "Six Months Ago" when Nathan goes to Peter's apartment to tell him Arthur had died, he tells Peter he died of a heart attack.
 
Uhm....if Arthur can put a thought into someone's head, why didn't just tell Nathan to leave Linderman alone? :huh:

Why did Claude work for the company a year ago when in season 1, it had been 7 years since he'd been in contact with the company? The same company that tried to kill him by the way.

I thought Elle was a bit out of character. Sure now she seems more of a good guy but back then she was crazy psycho. She didn't have any problems with killing the irish guy for instance. I found her a little too goody goody.

Other than that, excellent episode. Especially the way some scenes overlaped with scenes from season 1. Why is Kristen Bell so freakin' HOT!?
 
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I thought Elle was a bit out of character. Sure now she seems more of a good guy but back then she was crazy psycho. She didn't have any problems with killing the irish guy for instance. I found her a little too goody goody.

I think you have it a little backwards. She seemed like someone with at least a heart back then, but now she's a little bit more dark and sociopathic.
 
so all in all another episode i enjoyed very well...i dozed off between one or two parts (was deathly tired for some reason) but i dvr'ed it and am gonna watch it again tonight. i will definately be back in here to discuss things further.

side note: i am a bit annoyed by the fact the every week after heroes more time is wasted with people trying to criticize each other and make their point law(ive been guilty of it myself but am making an effort to not to do so anymore.) Let people have their opinions yes it may vary from yours and it will sometimes...hence opinion
 
My only Issue with this episode was the Sylar storyline it didn't make sense, these events from the way they set it up took place after Sylar killed that guy who asked him for help in season 1 so when did he have time to meet Elle in that time frame, I know they had other story lines going on but that seemed like it was shoe horned in there, and then if they knew each other they sure didn't act like it when Sylar was about to scalp her at the company when knox and them escaped, maybe I need to watch that epsiode again but to me it seemed like the Sylar thing was forced, I like the fact that they are trying to add depth to Sylar but it seems like they don't know what direction to take.
 
Uhm....if Arthur can put a thought into someone's head, why didn't just tell Nathan to leave Linderman alone? :huh:

Why did Claude work for the company a year ago when in season 1, it had been 7 years since he'd been in contact with the company? The same company that tried to kill him by the way.

I thought Elle was a bit out of character. Sure now she seems more of a good guy but back then she was crazy psycho. She didn't have any problems with killing the irish guy for instance. I found her a little too goody goody.

Other than that, excellent episode. Especially the way some scenes overlaped with scenes from season 1. Why is Kristen Bell so freakin' HOT!?

Good question about Arthur, why didn't he forcibly change his mind? Seems like the simple solution.

Who said the invisible man working for the company was claude? They can have more than one invisible man under their employ, I mean claire and Adam have the same abilities. So do Matt and Maury. Powers are a dime a dozen in the heroes-verse.

I agree with you on Elle, where was her sociopathic ways back in the day?

And yes...Kristen Bell is extremely freaking hot...I would love to "Ring her bell" (Hah! I had to say it!) :woot:
 
Wow, going back more than a year to prove a point.

Sad doesn't begin to describe it.

Bahaha.

You're acting like I had to break into some super-secret post archive to get the data I posted. It took less than 5 minutes to get, and post that whole thing. Also thanks for confirming that I proved my point. Matt called me out on my historical incisiveness, and I proved to him that my recollection was, indeed, relatively factual. How did I do that? By going into the history we were discussing. Imagine that.

Don't leave logic behind, in your dire need to sneer at someone you disagree with.

And know this, I analyze and program computer code by trade. If I wanted to pick apart this show like some of you do WITH YOUR EVERY POST, it wouldn't stand a chance. But then again, I know how to leave the criticism of shows to the professional critics. I am here to discuss/read about nuances - not pick apart everything I consider bad about the show, without adding anything positive to the discussion.

Please understand that nuances can be BOTH good or bad. That's the difference between a critical fan, and a critic pretending to be a fan.

I have watched Smallville from the very beginning. The last two seasons, I have found myself rolling my eyes almost every show, and fast-forwarding my DVR through the manufactured and fake melodrama. Do you see me in there annoying the ones that remain loyal to the show? I find the show not worth the discussion anymore.

Some of you who criticize Heroes have indicated as much. So why are you still here? I can only assume that you are here simply to "show up" anyone who might not agree with you, or to give an indirect F U to the show - while annoying everyone else. Please disprove my logic if I am wrong in my assumption.

This is why I called out Matt SPECIFICALLY in regards to what another poster said about those who liked the show and wanting it to go back to where it was - it took him less than ten posts after his first ever thread/post in here to express a dislike for this show. That's why I'm sitting here wondering why he's not only still here, but moderating the damned place.
 
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Please understand that nuances can be BOTH good or bad. That's the difference between a critical fan, and a critic pretending to be a fan.

Explain this concept. It sounds like semantics and wordplay from here. Nuances would almost certainly have to be subjective, which can be seen as either good or bad, depending on your perspective, right? Do I have to be in position to see a nuance as good to be a real fan? Do I, as a fan, naturally see nuances as good, because my perspective as a fan supercedes all other judgment?
 
Explain this concept. It sounds like semantics and wordplay from here. Nuances would almost certainly have to be subjective, which can be seen as either good or bad, depending on your perspective, right? Do I have to be in position to see a nuance as good to be a real fan? Do I, as a fan, naturally see nuances as good, because my perspective as a fan supercedes all other judgment?

I read complaints in here all the time from the less "passionate" about it, and believe or not, many times I agree with them. I just find it annoying when someone disagrees with the more rabid "criticize for the sake of being critical" people in here, or someone else presents an alternate take on the matter, they almost take it personally, as if by giving another side or view to the issue being discussed, they are being given some kind of personal affront. THAT'S when it gets annoying. THAT'S when it turns from a discussion about the episode, and turns into a "who can humiliate the show and those who disagree with us" competition.

I don't mind it. Just keep it in the gripes thread where that shat belongs. Have you EVER seen me post in there?

And all this by a mod, no less.

Trust me, I have questions about certain things about the show that even the Negatives in here haven't touched on yet. Then, I realize this is just a TV show, and I allow it to take me where it wants to take me. If I don't like it when I get there, then I'll get off, just as I did with Smallville. Complaining about the "trip" every step of the way just kills and makes you overlook whatever else there is that might be redeeming about the show.

I work with deep logic everyday. I'm ok with leaving some logic behind, when it comes to my entertainment. Sometimes, it just isn't supposed to be. That is, as long as it doesn't get ridiculous.

Imagine TV when you were a kid. Can you imagine being able to enjoy what you enjoyed then, if you had the same kind of critical bent Matt and others like him have had for Heroes?

I guess when I watch TV, I turn into that kid again. Think what you will of it, but isn't that the point? If you can't relax and leave the world behind when you sit in front of a show, then don't. Simple.
 
If you have a problem with a mod, take it up with them via pm or contact SHH! or Excelsior. Childish back and forth between the both of you should stop.
 

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