Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - Part 5

[Slade W]

I haven't seen CW yet, but of the five movies of the two trilogies that I have seen so far, the Batman trilogy makes up my top three, and I consider TFA to be a much lesser film than BB, TDK, TDKR and TWS. It doesn't deserve to be mentioned alongside those other movies IMO. I, personally, do not think it is anywhere near those other movies in terms of quality and it is the only one that I have had no desire to re-watch, even though I do think it was an ok-good movie.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I kept seeing TFA and kept wondering why you guys are talking about The Force Awakens - lol

 

[Erzengel]

The way I look at it is this way.

Spider-Man 1 and 2 and X-Men and X2 together, I feel are better than Iron Man 1 and 3 together. However the inclusion of Spider-Man 3 and X:TLS really bring down and make them imperfect trilogies. Iron Man Trilogy by default I would rank better just because it doesn't have the glaring misstep as the other two. But, even then I would say that it was at best a distant second to the Dark Knight Trilogy.

We've had so many lackluster 3rd acts including Blade Trinity. Even though this modern renaissance is less than 20 years old, personally, I'd like to see other trilogies try and contend in this genre.

I'd like to at least have something to be able to have a discussion despite who would win.

As a fan of CBM, I want CW, Apocalypse, Avengers: Infinity War to be stellar so we can have further discussions. I won't include Wolverine because of Origins.

It makes these forums open for debate.

Edit: I forgot about Thor: Ragnarok. However, a lot would agree that Dark World while better than Spider-Man 3 or TLS is still a very weak link.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I think TFA is pretty great, personally. It wasn't quite everything it could have been, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.

 

[InCali]

I've made the decision it's kinda pointless trying to compare other superhero films to TDK anymore. It's standard is just too different, not to mention the tone and execution of the post Avengers superhero films has gone in a different direction, making comparisons more or less useless now. Nolan's trilogy will simply be it's own thing, with TDK forever being the high point of the genre in terms of financial and critical success, as well as recognition from within the industry itself. It's frankly time to move on from Nolan's series, the landscape is now too different IMO for comparisons to continue.

These are just subjective comparisons so there's no right or wrong answer. For me CA is probably the only MCU trilogy I could even compare to the Nolan movies. Of those, I actually like BB the best. The one thing it was missing was the truly spectacular cinematography of TDK and TDKR (the third being the least of the three by far as a movie IMO). That's a shame because there was a lot of potential missed for BB in the cinematography department.

Soooooooo.....I'll have to see CW first, but if it's better than TWS, I could say it's pretty close, with a maybe slight edge to the Nolan Trilogy. I think TWS is somewhat comparable to BB and TDK and ditto for CA:TFA and TDKR. I know a lot of people will disagree with my last point, but I just didn't think TDKR was up to the level of the first 2; though I'm positively in love with Marion Cotillard and think she's one of the best actors going.

 

[ernesth100]

I'm surprised how close TFA and BB are in you guys' rankings.

I dunno, they just feel like a similar thing for some reason. Pdobably because they're both origins,

 

[Erzengel]

I like BB better than TDKR. However, BB does have Katie Holmes and I think that's most glaring misstep in that movie.

 

[Mjölnir]

It's hard to compare the trilogies but since I think Begins is probably the best Batman movie ever it's interesting how I think that trilogy goes from best to worst and Cap's trilogy might do the opposite. It's not fair to rank Civil War and Winter Soldier after only having seen the former once though.

 

[BoredGuy]

Wasn't there a whole other "best trilogy" thread?

 

[Erzengel]

Closed until the movie actually opened.

 

[BoredGuy]

ohh I see
well I still haven't seen it, but the hype is telling me Cap will have my new fave trilogy
maybe not as veryveryserious and 'adult' as the Nolan films, but consistently good-to-amazing and endlessly rewatchable

 

[DACrowe]

I've made the decision it's kinda pointless trying to compare other superhero films to TDK anymore. It's standard is just too different, not to mention the tone and execution of the post Avengers superhero films has gone in a different direction, making comparisons more or less useless now. Nolan's trilogy will simply be it's own thing, with TDK forever being the high point of the genre in terms of financial and critical success, as well as recognition from within the industry itself. It's frankly time to move on from Nolan's series, the landscape is now too different IMO for comparisons to continue.

Yes and no. I would say Nolan was the last major filmmaker to aim to make standalone cinema with each film being its own unique beast. Now, the industry by and large is moving to more episodic and even television-styled storytelling, which can lead to some pretty bad films (Iron Man 2, Avengers 2, Batman v Superman) and some pretty damn good ones too (The Avengers.... presumably Civil War).

However, the trilogy aspect I will agree is moot, because Nolan intentionally crafted a trilogy. Each film stands apart but builds part of an overall aesthetic whole. The Cap movies are much more checkered in their ambition like the "Iron Man Trilogy" before them. The first one is a period piece origin story hellbent on leading into The Avengers no matter he cost (and to me that cost was a rather weak third act where it went into montage mode). The second one felt like the Captain America movie folks really wanted to see. Now, the third is almost moving away from that and is as much a sequel to the Avengers films as it is a continuation of Cap 2... much less Cap 1.

In that way, it does not feel like a trilogy, but more like a random assortment of films with the same character. I imagine the First Class Trilogy will be closer to forming a cohesive whole that is comparable to what Nolan did than the Captain America movies have been.

 

[DACrowe]

I'm surprised how close TFA and BB are in you guys' rankings.

I mean everyone has an opinion but it does seem odd that so many would call The First Avenger (a decent origin film that plunges into mediocrity in its second half) better than Batman Begins. And calling The Winter Soldier better than The Dark Knight? Well.... we all have different opinions?

But only one in either seres is standing the test of time as great work of cinematic art. Then again, consensus should not dissuade folks one way or another.

 

[Erzengel]

I do think that CW gets a boost by not having to spend time introducing almost a dozen characters from different movies. If Cap was a standalone film, they would of had to spend some additional time introducing everyone. Fair or unfair.

 

[Tymminator]

It's hard to compare the trilogies but since I think Begins is probably the best Batman movie ever it's interesting how I think that trilogy goes from best to worst and Cap's trilogy might do the opposite. It's not fair to rank Civil War and Winter Soldier after only having seen the former once though.

I also think BB is the best in the trilogy, followed by TDK with TDKR in third.

 

[BoredGuy]

I thought Batman Begins was the best Batman movie
but TDK was the best straight up film
it just failed to present a terribly compelling Batman


and tdkr can f*** right off lol

 

[DACrowe]

I thought Batman Begins was the best Batman movie
but TDK was the best straight up film
it just failed to present a terribly compelling Batman


and tdkr can f*** right off lol

Oh The Dark Knight Rises is not that bad.

it's better than every single MCU movie after all!

Runs away!

 

[Mjölnir]

I do think that CW gets a boost by not having to spend time introducing almost a dozen characters from different movies. If Cap was a standalone facility, they would of had to spend some additional time introducing everyone. Fair or unfair.

It's just not a movie you make if it's not a sequel or part of a shared universe.

 

[Erzengel]

Oh The Dark Knight Rises is not that bad.

it's better than every single MCU movie after all!

Runs away!

Everyone has an opinion. But honestly, that whole Bane letting Bruce heal enough to return to Gotham to stop him is sooooo glaring of a plot for me. Oh and bad fight choreography. I mean I still find it as one of the better CBM, but this is how you split hairs.

 

[BoredGuy]

Oh The Dark Knight Rises is not that bad.

it's better than every single MCU movie after all!

Runs away!

Yeah you better run, muthaf***a!

blasphemy, I say!

 

[Mjölnir]

I thought Batman Begins was the best Batman movie
but TDK was the best straight up film
it just failed to present a terribly compelling Batman


and tdkr can f*** right off lol

TDK is more ambitious and had all the potential to be better than BB, and I certainly understand why so many think it is, but for me I think it has issues making some things work within the dark and realistic tone. Things like the Joker coming across as having plot immunity (Ra's Al Ghul's plan works much better) or that I don't buy Dent's transformation into Two-Face. That's just how I tend to react to that kind of tone in movies.

A less compelling lead role is a pretty big thing to me as well, and I also think there are better laid out motivations for the characters in Begins. Then I prefer what they did with the theme of fear over the theme of chaos in TDK, and I preferred how Gotham was portrayed in BB as well. Lastly I think the action in BB is less flawed than in the rest of the trilogy.

The only thing in Begins I was really disappointed with was how Scarecrow was defeated in the end. I loved the take on the character but they could have done so much more with him when he finally came into his element with Gotham being filled with fear, and then he gets tasered and literally runs away screaming like a girl.

 

[WilliamK99]

I do think that CW gets a boost by not having to spend time introducing almost a dozen characters from different movies. If Cap was a standalone film, they would of had to spend some additional time introducing everyone. Fair or unfair.

Fair, it's not Marvel's fault WB decided to go from Step 1 of universe building to step 9, trying to make Avengers money right away...

 

[Iceman]

Would be nice to get a trilogy without any weak links!

 

[Erzengel]

There's always going to be a weak link in some aspect. Jedi, Fellowship, Bourne Ultimatum, BTTF2, Temple of Doom etc.

Think the most "perfect" trilogy is probably something like Toy Story.

 

[Iceman]

I do think that CW gets a boost by not having to spend time introducing almost a dozen characters from different movies. If Cap was a standalone film, they would of had to spend some additional time introducing everyone. Fair or unfair.

Unfair in a way but there are many naturally unfair things in discussions like this. Films with succesful predecessors like Batman 89 also have the advantage of not having to bother with the origin (even though for some reason they seem to love repeating this!) and other elements as some knowledge can be assumed.