Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[wiegeabo]

LOCATION: MADRIPOOR

Madripoor is apparently based on Singapore; they are both south Asian island port nations with a single major city. Its official name is the Principality of Madripoor, and its capital and single large city is Madripoor, which is divided between wealthy Hightown and impoverished, crime-ridden Lowtown. This serves to represent the extreme social inequality in Madripoor, described as "A place for the very rich and the very poor".
Madripoor was once a haven for pirates, and that tradition is somewhat continued today with its lawless quality; the Principality does not allow other nations to extradite criminals. However, it is one of the business capitals of the Pacific Rim, with its own Trade Center.
Other locations of note in the Central Business District are the Bank of Hong Kong and the Bank of Malaysia, luxurious Sovereign Hotel, and the Prince's Palace, said to rival Versailles.

 

[hippy fascist]

Nico Minoru Vs Ben Reilly

(****ty goth vs poor substitute)

Ok, I really hate to be the guy that knocked out both the spider-men but ben is seriously outclassed here.

The usual rundown on powers:

Nico's sole weapon is the Staff of One, a magical staff which can cast any spell imaginable. There are two demonstrated limitations to the Staff of One's power. First, Nico cannot cast the same spell twice, or the spell will "misfire" and a random effect will occur. For example, the second time she tried to cast a "Fumigation" spell, the Staff teleported Nico and Karolina miles outside of Los Angeles.[1] The sole demonstrated exception to this limitation is former runaway Alex Wilder. Alex used the Staff to cast a spell off-panel to bind Karolina's parents in power-dampening chains, and then uses the same spell later on Karolina.[2] The reason for this exception is unrevealed.
The second limitation of the Staff of One is that it cannot be used to bring people back from the dead. Nico discovered this limitation when she tried to resurrect her former lover Alex Wilder off-panel, between Runaways vol. 1 #17 and Runaways vol. 2 #2. She revealed her attempt to save Alex after a future version of Gertrude Yorkes died in the Hostel due to internal injuries. [3]

Now, the key here is the part about any spell imaginable. It has been said that nico's staff is (in terms of power levels) on a par with the likes of dr strange and the living tribunal. She can do ANYTHING.

With ben being from the future he will be able to gain absolutely no information on nico. Nico however has actually faced the real spider-man in combat. Given that ben is an exact duplicate she will be fully versed in his powers and the staff of one even managed to bypass pete's spider sense catching him with a fireball and knocking him out for the count. Ben on the other hand will see a ****ty goth girl, instantly feel terrible about the dirty thoughts he is having about the young girl before him and underestimate her.

At this point she will turn him into a duck.

That may sound ridiculous but it is intended to show the kind of power nico can wield. Nico will find out about ben from the pride's database, her prep time is already done (since like anyone who watches tv or reads the papers in the marvel u she will be very well versed with spider-man and his powers). She will then spend the rest of her time reading the thesaurus. You see nico wields incalculable power but has always been held back by her lack of vocabulary. For this fight, rather than training or buidling things nico will simply cram words into her head.

She could turn him into a duck (knowing full well the effects wear off in an hour from changing old lace into a puppy for the new york arc)

She could encase him in a block of ice

She could make his webbing evaporate

She could turn a building into a giant rock monster and have it pound on ben for her.

There is literally NO LIMIT to what she can do

Ben on the other hand has always been street level and due to his untimely death, forever will be

Add to this the fact that ben wil have severe issues about taking on a child, whereas nico has a healthy distaste for adults, and it's clear we have a winner in little miss minoru

WINNER: NICO MINORU!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Scarlet Spider Vs Nico Minoru

Now I hate to do this... but the debate's gotta come, and I have to find a way to eliminate my Nico.

So first off, research goes to Nico, as she came around after Scarlet Spider, so she'll know of him, and he won't know of her. Fortunately, both are heavy on keeping people safe, so they'll eventually find each other and move away from the crowds to do battle. I figure Ben will begin by talking, and Nico will just go for the fight (as she typically does). She will summon the staff if it isn't already out. And from there, the match begins. Below are the reasons why I think Ben will win this.

1) Ben is much more experienced than Nico. He has all the memories of Spidey's fights up until the cloning process that created him, so those experiences are as good as his. Then add in his days against Kaine and other minor threats while he was on the run, and all his adventures as Scarlet Spider, and he has oodles of experience over Nico. He'll better be able to form a plan, to gracefully fight and get his way in to Nico to get his blow in to knock her out (as she's just a normal teenage girl). He will just know a dozen more ways to kindly take Nico out than she will for him.

2) Agility and Spidey Sense - He is agile enough to dodge and move around any spell she throws, or things she tries to bring down on him. He can't out manuever some spells, such as transforming spells and such, but his spidey sense will warn him of something before it happen. His spidey sense will help him dodge most physical attack spells... as well as the other type! How can his spidey sense help him against such spells as transforming, deconstruction, etc. spells? That leads to #3.

3) Webbing, Impact Webbing, and Stingers: These are tools for the Scarlet one that he used regularly. They are usually aids, but in this match they will be essential. Thing is with Nico, is that she has to actually speak her spells for them to work. Ben's Spidey sense will warn him before she speaks, and we must remember his speed. She always raises her staff before speaking a spell, and he will see this. If he sees her raise her staff and begin to speak mumbo jumbo, and his spidey sense is going off like mad.... he's smart enough to put two and two together (especially if he sees her summon the staff. He'll know she's a magic girl). All it'd take is a quick dose of Impact webbing covering the staff and her mouth. If she can't speak, she can't cast a spell, and she's just a girl holding a stick. If the impact webbing wraps around her as it does, then she's just a girl, holding a stick, stuck in a web cacoon. She will not be strong enough to break out of it, so she coudl basically be considered rendered inoperable, but if more is needed, a simple stinger to her cheek or leg or whatever should be enough to knock her out.

She may get a spell off, but Ben is Spidey quick and his reflexes, teamed with his spidey sense and Impact webbing, or regular webbing, whichever have you, shoudl be enough to intercept her before the spell is cast. If she does get some words out, chances are he'll stop her part way and it'll backfire in some method, giving Ben even more time to wrap her up and take her out.

She's a wonderful character, one of my favorates, but Ben's got the experience (and she has very very little). Another thing to remember is that she's a team player. She's never fought without her team, and so this one on one is out of her element, whereas Ben's been a loner all his life. This one on one is right up his ally. Nico's awsome, but Ben's got this match in the bag.

sniff.... sniff.....

Winner - Scarlet Spider

 

[JewishHobbit]

Nico Minoru Vs Ben Reilly

(****ty goth vs poor substitute)

Ok, I really hate to be the guy that knocked out both the spider-men but ben is seriously outclassed here.

The usual rundown on powers:



Now, the key here is the part about any spell imaginable. It has been said that nico's staff is (in terms of power levels) on a par with the likes of dr strange and the living tribunal. She can do ANYTHING.

With ben being from the future he will be able to gain absolutely no information on nico. Nico however has actually faced the real spider-man in combat. Given that ben is an exact duplicate she will be fully versed in his powers and the staff of one even managed to bypass pete's spider sense catching him with a fireball and knocking him out for the count. Ben on the other hand will see a ****ty goth girl, instantly feel terrible about the dirty thoughts he is having about the young girl before him and underestimate her.

You had me stumble for a moment with the fooling Spidey Sense thing, but then I looked it up. It still holds water, but I think it's more up to reader interpretation than fact. She threw the fire, but Spidey easily dodged it and mocked her all the while about it. It wasn't until she said the 'dreadtime' spell that got him. The spidey sense wasn't mention or shown either time, and anytime Spidey's ever been attacked and his SPidey Sense fooled, he's made a big deal about it, never just ignored it and laughed it off. I've always taken that scene as he sense the attack (since he dodged the fire ball) but that it simply wasn't shown, and she was able to tag him, since he underestimated her and was just laughing at her originally.

JH WRITE UP DEFENSE - In my write up the Spidey Sense is important, so I'm going to take this situation in two scenerios. The first is that if you believe he still sensed the attack and used it to dodge it, then my write up holds up still. Secondly, if for some reason Ben's spidey sense wouldn't register, we saw in Runaways that Spidey was able to dodge her first attack, so it goes to reason that Ben should be able to as well. The differance falls in that Spidey is sarcastic, while Ben was more buisness and to the point. He won't mock her, he'll stop her then and there, and therein lies the webbing to mouth and stick removed from her hands. Spidey just underestimated her either way. Ben may, but while he's a clone, he's a differant guy. Nico may also expect a Spidey Clone, and get surprised by how differant a mentallity Ben really does have.

At this point she will turn him into a duck.

That may sound ridiculous but it is intended to show the kind of power nico can wield. Nico will find out about ben from the pride's database, her prep time is already done (since like anyone who watches tv or reads the papers in the marvel u she will be very well versed with spider-man and his powers). She will then spend the rest of her time reading the thesaurus. You see nico wields incalculable power but has always been held back by her lack of vocabulary. For this fight, rather than training or buidling things nico will simply cram words into her head.

She could turn him into a duck (knowing full well the effects wear off in an hour from changing old lace into a puppy for the new york arc)

She could encase him in a block of ice

She could make his webbing evaporate

She could turn a building into a giant rock monster and have it pound on ben for her.

There is literally NO LIMIT to what she can do

Ben on the other hand has always been street level and due to his untimely death, forever will be

Add to this the fact that ben wil have severe issues about taking on a child, whereas nico has a healthy distaste for adults, and it's clear we have a winner in little miss minoru

WINNER: NICO MINORU!

I'll agree to the amount of power Nico whelds, but she's highly untrained in it, fairly inexperienced, and going in expecting Spidey, not Ben (thinking him to be a clone, and thus, just like Spidey). I completely agree with your take on prep-time in regards to Nico, but remember, she has all that power, but if she can't speak, she can't do squat with that power. Ben can easily see she's a sorcerous when she summons the staff, and if spidey can dodge her first attack, so too can Ben. His mentality isn't to mock her though, it's to remove the threat and in that, she wll never get a second spell out, if she even manages to find time to get the first one out. If a voter believes his Spidey sense wont' work, then the Spidey appearance shows that Ben should be able to dodge her attacks as well (and react quicker, as it's Ben and not Peter). Overall though, the Spidey Sense thing is up to the voters.

I think Speed, experience, agility, Webbing, Stingers, and Ben's experience fighting alone and not in a team will win this match for him.

Winner - Scarlet Spider

 

[kytrigger]

Stryfe vs. Sauron - Opening remarks

Stryfe is from the future and is basically a version of Nate Grey, with the same powers, yet not hindered by the organic techno-virus, so he is said to be more powerful. These powers include telepathy, telekinesis and other enhanced attributes like strength and endurance, he is also protected by full body armor.

Sauron is a mutant that can turn into a pterodactyl with enhanced strength and other attributes, and powers such as hypnosis and energy drain and on some occasions, limited power duplication.

Intel wise I don't know exactly who would know what, Stryfe being from the future and an alternate version of Nate Grey confuses things, and there is also the whole, 'from an alternate timeline' thing, I really don't know who remembers what from the events that took place.

This is a bad matchup for Sauron as Sauron has one major weakness, he is wide open to telepathy and easily manipulated. When Sauron was on a mission to capture Emma Frost for the weapon x project, she easily subdued him and eventually took control of him making him go after another subject. This subjugation continued until he captured his new subject and returned to the weapon x base. Stryfe is many times the telepath as Emma Frost is.

Any tools that Sauron has are completely nullified also. His hypnosis will not work on Stryfe, as it's basically telepathic feat, and again, Stryfe is a telepath beyond match. Also, in the comics Saurons hypnosis only worked on non-telepaths and was never shown otherwise. His power drain also will be nullified for two reasons, one he actually has to touch skin, and Stryfe wears full body armor, and as shown in the comics this isn't an instant affect, and Stryfe has many other powers including superhuman strength and telekinesis to keep him away.


A fully populated Madripoor will actually benefit Stryfe, mainly he has many subjects to manipulate to his benefit. Sauron will probably be in his human form, making him hard to find, and even though Stryfe and his high level telepahy can find people in a crowd, he might not know who Sauron is to find him. His best bet is to turn the whole city's population on eachother causing them to attack wantonly, and most likely one of those would be Sauron. This would do two things, cause damage to Sauron, but mainly bring him out in the open, and causing him to go into his pterodactyl form giving Stryfe a chance to attack him directly. Stryfe would not think twice in doing this to innocent people, as he's an evil a-hole.

This attack would really consist of one thing, a telepathic assault subduing Sauron and ending this battle.

Winner: Stryfe

The only thing I'll really rebutt here is the part about Sauron's weakness to telepaths. Yes Emma Frost tricked him with an illusion, but she is one of the most powerful and skilled telepaths on the planet. she has constantly been shown to be able ot outperform telepaths that are more powerful than her including Rachel Summers and Madelyne Pryor. Saying he has been duped by Emma isn't really the same as saying he has a major weakness to telepathy IMO. Stryfe might have more power than Emma, but that doesn't mean he can use it as good as she can.

I'll also add that voting for Stryfe is voting for Liefeld. t:

Winner- Sauron

 

[wiegeabo]

Joystick vs Korath

At first glance this looks like a very bad match up for Joystick. But it's not nearly as hopeless as it might appear.

Prep-time probably means little to both. I think Joystick, with her Thunderbolts connections, may be able to get info on Korath. But that's not to be relied on.

And the location will have little effect on them. Korath wouldn't care about the people, and neither would Joystick.

Korath's biggest advantage is likely his ability to scan the area for powers. Combined with flight boots, he can stay safely out of range while he tracks his target.

Well, he would, if Joystick didn't have superspeed. With her speed, she can keep moving around so quickly that Korath will have trouble tracking her. No doubt his technology can keep a real time lock on Joystick, but Korath can't react as fast as Joystick. So by the time he reads his device and understands that Joystick is behind him, she's either already attacked him, or moved in front of him and attacked.

And even if he's flying, Joystick can use her speed to launch herself into the air. Or just fire her baton's force beams at him from the ground and at super speed. And damaging his boots would help Joystick immensely, removing Korath's best defense against her speed.

Korath has great durability and strength. So does Joystick. It may not be as much as Korath's, but her super agility (on par with Spider-Man) combined with super speed (and multiple attacks at super speeds) helps to balance it out.

The best part of this fight is that both characters use a pair of powered batons. What are the odds of that? Granted, Korath is likely better trained in fighting and his batons are more powerful. But, again, Joystick's speed and agility givers her the ability to fight from a safe distance. Or she can quickly run in, attack a few dozen times, the run back out to safety.

This is going to be a good battle to watch. But one that Korath will have more trouble with than he was expecting. He's had trouble fighting Captain America, and he'll have even more trouble this time.

Joystick wins

 

[wiegeabo]

Korath vs. Joystick:
I don't think either will find out a lot of information about the other. Korath is definitely in different circles than Joystick, and Korath obviously could care less about regular, less-powerful superheroes on Earth 616. Joystick could find out information about Madripoor; but, it won't do her much good. As Korath's bio states, Korath "has increased advance scanners that can pick up anomalous brain patters or power levels," and will be able to find Joystick almost automatically. Comparing power levels of Korath compared to Joystick, it's like apples and oranges. His durability is much, much more than Joystick, and his ability to fly can keep him out of her grasp or range.

I agree on the prep-time and location. They may be able to find something out about each other, and the location, but probably not enough to influence the fight much.

And neither would care about the people or hurting them.

As for his scanners, power level, and flight, I've already mentioned how her speed and agility help make up for any discrepancies.

This fight is not as one-sided as it seems. Joystick has a decided advantage that Korath will have difficulty overcoming.

Joystick wins.

 

[hippy fascist]

Scarlet Spider Vs Nico Minoru

Now I hate to do this... but the debate's gotta come, and I have to find a way to eliminate my Nico.

So first off, research goes to Nico, as she came around after Scarlet Spider, so she'll know of him, and he won't know of her. Fortunately, both are heavy on keeping people safe, so they'll eventually find each other and move away from the crowds to do battle. I figure Ben will begin by talking, and Nico will just go for the fight (as she typically does). She will summon the staff if it isn't already out. And from there, the match begins. Below are the reasons why I think Ben will win this.

Agreed, neither will want innocent lives lost so they will move away from the people. However, while not that booksmart nico has plenty of street smarts, she will know the element of surprise is her greatest asset and the wand will be out alrweady so as not to give anything away.

1) Ben is much more experienced than Nico. He has all the memories of Spidey's fights up until the cloning process that created him, so those experiences are as good as his. Then add in his days against Kaine and other minor threats while he was on the run, and all his adventures as Scarlet Spider, and he has oodles of experience over Nico. He'll better be able to form a plan, to gracefully fight and get his way in to Nico to get his blow in to knock her out (as she's just a normal teenage girl). He will just know a dozen more ways to kindly take Nico out than she will for him.

no doubt but nico has faced off against demigods whereas ben is strictly street level. Also it's easy to take down villains like venom or scorpion. Beating on a little kid will be a different matter.

2) Agility and Spidey Sense - He is agile enough to dodge and move around any spell she throws, or things she tries to bring down on him. He can't out manuever some spells, such as transforming spells and such, but his spidey sense will warn him of something before it happen. His spidey sense will help him dodge most physical attack spells... as well as the other type! How can his spidey sense help him against such spells as transforming, deconstruction, etc. spells? That leads to #3.

Problem is, this will be severely compromised as nico will simply evaporate his webbing when the fight starts. Without his webbing half of bens options are gone.

Also, with regards the spider-sense, see runaways volume 2. Gert used the staff to shoot a fireball at spidey, it bypassed his spider-sense and knocked him out, so that's pretty much moot.

3) Webbing, Impact Webbing, and Stingers: These are tools for the Scarlet one that he used regularly. They are usually aids, but in this match they will be essential. Thing is with Nico, is that she has to actually speak her spells for them to work. Ben's Spidey sense will warn him before she speaks, and we must remember his speed. She always raises her staff before speaking a spell, and he will see this. If he sees her raise her staff and begin to speak mumbo jumbo, and his spidey sense is going off like mad.... he's smart enough to put two and two together (especially if he sees her summon the staff. He'll know she's a magic girl). All it'd take is a quick dose of Impact webbing covering the staff and her mouth. If she can't speak, she can't cast a spell, and she's just a girl holding a stick. If the impact webbing wraps around her as it does, then she's just a girl, holding a stick, stuck in a web cacoon. She will not be strong enough to break out of it, so she coudl basically be considered rendered inoperable, but if more is needed, a simple stinger to her cheek or leg or whatever should be enough to knock her out.

Which is exactly why the first words out of her mouth will be evaporate. As ben relies on his webbing even more than pete this just serves to give nico an even greater advantage.

She may get a spell off, but Ben is Spidey quick and his reflexes, teamed with his spidey sense and Impact webbing, or regular webbing, whichever have you, shoudl be enough to intercept her before the spell is cast. If she does get some words out, chances are he'll stop her part way and it'll backfire in some method, giving Ben even more time to wrap her up and take her out.

not really, ben has no idea of her powers, as far as he's concerned she may be holding a cosmic rod! She'll say "evaporate" and from that point on it all goes downhill for reilly.

She's a wonderful character, one of my favorates, but Ben's got the experience (and she has very very little). Another thing to remember is that she's a team player. She's never fought without her team, and so this one on one is out of her element, whereas Ben's been a loner all his life. This one on one is right up his ally. Nico's awsome, but Ben's got this match in the bag.

She's also a team leader who has a hhabit of saving her team mates butts. The team thing really doesn't apply here. And experience...she's faced a harder life than ben could imagine, this girl is ready willing and able to take him out (or turn him into a duck )


WINNER: NICO MINORU!

 

[hippy fascist]

You had me stumble for a moment with the fooling Spidey Sense thing, but then I looked it up. It still holds water, but I think it's more up to reader interpretation than fact. She threw the fire, but Spidey easily dodged it and mocked her all the while about it. It wasn't until she said the 'dreadtime' spell that got him. The spidey sense wasn't mention or shown either time, and anytime Spidey's ever been attacked and his SPidey Sense fooled, he's made a big deal about it, never just ignored it and laughed it off. I've always taken that scene as he sense the attack (since he dodged the fire ball) but that it simply wasn't shown, and she was able to tag him, since he underestimated her and was just laughing at her originally.

also, the spidey sense is great against physical or projectile attacks, with a psell there is nothing to dodge, it's like a heat seeking missile. If she tried to hit him with the staff fair enough but there's no way he could dodge a spell to make his webbing evaporate or change him into a duck.

JH WRITE UP DEFENSE - In my write up the Spidey Sense is important, so I'm going to take this situation in two scenerios. The first is that if you believe he still sensed the attack and used it to dodge it, then my write up holds up still. Secondly, if for some reason Ben's spidey sense wouldn't register, we saw in Runaways that Spidey was able to dodge her first attack, so it goes to reason that Ben should be able to as well. The differance falls in that Spidey is sarcastic, while Ben was more buisness and to the point. He won't mock her, he'll stop her then and there, and therein lies the webbing to mouth and stick removed from her hands. Spidey just underestimated her either way. Ben may, but while he's a clone, he's a differant guy. Nico may also expect a Spidey Clone, and get surprised by how differant a mentallity Ben really does have.

A fireball, like any projectile has a physical presence. having learnt from that experience nico will stick to non physical spells. Evaporate the webbing, turn him into a duck it's that simple.

I'll agree to the amount of power Nico whelds, but she's highly untrained in it, fairly inexperienced, and going in expecting Spidey, not Ben (thinking him to be a clone, and thus, just like Spidey). I completely agree with your take on prep-time in regards to Nico, but remember, she has all that power, but if she can't speak, she can't do squat with that power. Ben can easily see she's a sorcerous when she summons the staff, and if spidey can dodge her first attack, so too can Ben. His mentality isn't to mock her though, it's to remove the threat and in that, she wll never get a second spell out, if she even manages to find time to get the first one out. If a voter believes his Spidey sense wont' work, then the Spidey appearance shows that Ben should be able to dodge her attacks as well (and react quicker, as it's Ben and not Peter). Overall though, the Spidey Sense thing is up to the voters.

I think Speed, experience, agility, Webbing, Stingers, and Ben's experience fighting alone and not in a team will win this match for him.

As stated it won't be a physical attack, she'll just evaporate his webbing, or turn it into soda whichever. He can't win this fight. the webbing was his only chance and with the nature of nico's powers it's been taken away. Ben doesn't stand a chance.

Winner - Scarlet Spider

QUACK!

WINNER: NICO MINORU!

 

[Phaedrus45]

I agree on the prep-time and location. They may be able to find something out about each other, and the location, but probably not enough to influence the fight much.

And neither would care about the people or hurting them.

As for his scanners, power level, and flight, I've already mentioned how her speed and agility help make up for any discrepancies.

This fight is not as one-sided as it seems. Joystick has a decided advantage that Korath will have difficulty overcoming.

Joystick wins.

My Rebuttal:

My danger with this match is that voters do have a tendancy to vote for the underdog if given sufficient reason to, and while your argument might seem to make a few points, there are parts which need better explaining.

*First: Throughout the argument of reasoning why Joystic can defeat Korath, her "super speed" is continually brought up. Let's look at this.

"Joystick apparently possesses superhuman strength sufficient to press roughly ten tons, speed, and agility roughly equivalent to that of Spider-Man."

Now, Spider-Man is not so fast that his opponents cannot keep track of him. So, to claim "with her speed, she can keep moving around so quickly that Korath will have trouble tracking her" isn't really true. Also, one very important factor when mentioning how Joystick's speed and agility is on par with Spider-Man is the fact that Spider-Man's speed and agility is most useful because Spider-Man has a Spider Sense; obviously, Joystick does not have this.

*Second: It is mentioned that Korath had "trouble fighting Captain America, and he'll have even more trouble this time." This is actually an extreme cliff notes version of their fight from Captain America #399, and by looking at what happened in that issue, it's more true saying Korath won't have as much trouble fighting Joystick. Below is what really happened in Cap. #399.

First, Korath wasn't just fighting Captain America. He was fighting the Avengers Team Kree, which consisted of Captain America, Sersi, Crystal, Hercules, Black Knight, Iron Man, and USAgent. What happened is the Supreme Intelligence told Korath and two other Kree superpowers to locate the missing Avengers. Korath did this by pinpointing their non-kree brain patterns. Alone, he went to take them out, surprising Sersi and Crystal, knocking them unconscious. Captain American then surprised him by jumping on his back. Captain America realized he couldn't defeat Korath alone, so he disabled Korath's jet-propelled boots, making him fall; meanwhile, Cap rejoined his fellow Avengers after jumping off Korath's back.

What this shows is that:

*Captain America realized he couldn't hurt Korath enough on his own to beat him; so, he removed him from fighting.

*Korath wasn't just facing Captain America. If he was, he would have knocked Cap unconscious just as he did Sersi or Crystal.

*Korath will realize how he was defeated in the past, and it sure won't happen again...and, this can hardly be considered a defeat, as Captain America obviously isn't able to harm him physically.

*FINAL POINT: It's stressed that Joystick has super agility and super speed. I'll just point out that pretty much everyone superhero seems to have "super agility and super speed." Even Korath probably has it; it's just we don't currently have a good bio describing this. Looking at his past, though, and how he is called "Korath The Pursuer," I would be fairly certain to think he's not the slowest character in the Marvel Universe. Also, as pointed out, Korath is pursuing one person, not the entire Avenger's Kree Team. He is designed to pursue, and this is right up his alley.

Winner = Korath The Pursuer

 

[wiegeabo]

My Rebuttal:

My danger with this match is that voters do have a tendancy to vote for the underdog if given sufficient reason to, and while your argument might seem to make a few points, there are parts which need better explaining.

*First: Throughout the argument of reasoning why Joystic can defeat Korath, her "super speed" is continually brought up. Let's look at this.

"Joystick apparently possesses superhuman strength sufficient to press roughly ten tons, speed, and agility roughly equivalent to that of Spider-Man."

Now, Spider-Man is not so fast that his opponents cannot keep track of him. So, to claim "with her speed, she can keep moving around so quickly that Korath will have trouble tracking her" isn't really true. Also, one very important factor when mentioning how Joystick's speed and agility is on par with Spider-Man is the fact that Spider-Man's speed and agility is most useful because Spider-Man has a Spider Sense; obviously, Joystick does not have this.


*FINAL POINT: It's stressed that Joystick has super agility and super speed. I'll just point out that pretty much everyone superhero seems to have "super agility and super speed." Even Korath probably has it; it's just we don't currently have a good bio describing this. Looking at his past, though, and how he is called "Korath The Pursuer," I would be fairly certain to think he's not the slowest character in the Marvel Universe. Also, as pointed out, Korath is pursuing one person, not the entire Avenger's Kree Team. He is designed to pursue, and this is right up his alley.

Joystick actually has super speed greater than that of Speed Demon. This can be seen at the end of Speed Demon's bio at Marvel.com:
Joystick surprised Speed Demon by suddenly exhibiting superhuman speeds even greater than his own, and she left him defeated, both his legs broken.

Being as fast as Spider-Man likely wouldn't do Joystick much good. But the speed in question is the type she used against Speed Demon. And that is what will turn the battle in her favor.

Joystick wins

 

[Phaedrus45]

Joystick actually has super speed greater than that of Speed Demon. This can be seen at the end of Speed Demon's bio at Marvel.com:
Joystick surprised Speed Demon by suddenly exhibiting superhuman speeds even greater than his own, and she left him defeated, both his legs broken.

Being as fast as Spider-Man likely wouldn't do Joystick much good. But the speed in question is the type she used against Speed Demon. And that is what will turn the battle in her favor.

Joystick wins

Ah, but as those who remember my infamous match against Speed Demon, it was learned that Speed Demon's speed was actually quite lame. So lame, in fact, that's it's quite possible Speed Demon is slower than Spidey.

Plus, the "new and improved" joystick and Thunderbolts #107 isn't allowed for use in this contest. Thunderbolts 107 and it's storyline was released in October of 2006, the same month our little contest started. That fight between her and Speed Demon cannot be used in argument.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I looked at my original rebuttal against Speed Demon, and I stated the following:

In fact, Speed Demon is such a joke, he made the following statement in Quasar #17: "Arrgh! How can there be so many persons faster than me?" In that issue Quicksilver, Whizzer II and Makkari easily outrace him in the Runner's super-speedster marathon.

Either way, as I stated, the battle between Speed Demon and Joystick cannot be used in debate, as it and the storyline was ongoing when our contest started. I ask the judge to strike it from the record.t: (Don't you just hate that rule sometimes?)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Midnight Ice]

Korath
Sinister(yeah, I know Karima is my character, but I couldn't come up with a debate that I liked well enough against Sinster. Actually I did think of one this past weekend, but Sat was my birthday and I partied a little to hard and forgot some details, lol)
Sauron(I really think Sauron is under rated and all he has to do is touch his opponent to win this)
Nico

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Scarlet Spider - (Tough decision; but, the main thing I always come back to is that Nico can be imagined as being one of the strongest foes in the M.U.; but, she has never really shown herself to be that in truth. Ben has experience on his side.)

*Mr. Sinister

*Korath

*Stryfe - (Stryfe is covered in armor; so, it wouldn't be so easy to just touch him.)

 

[kytrigger]

Nico-good debate and a tough battle, but having faced a spider-man before definately helps her in this battle
Sinister
Sauron
Korath

 

[JewishHobbit]

Scarlet Spider
Sinister
Stryfe (If not for the full body armor, I would have been pursuaded to vote Sauron)
Joystick (Good debate, I was going back and forth on my final decision)

 

[wiegeabo]

Scarlet Spider (For all of her power, I think Ben's--and therefore Peter's--experiences are more than enough for the wall-crawler)
Mr. Sinister
Joystick
Stryfe (Sauron is just over powered. Maybe if Stryfe didn't have his armor...)

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Scarlet Spider - webbing in the mouth sounds likely

Mr. Sinister

Korath

Stryfe

 

[Harlekin]

Nico Minoru - Element of surprise/prep-time.
Mr. Sinister
Korath - Too bad T-Bolts #107 isn't admissable.
Stryfe - Touching isn't going to happen with the armor.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Scarlet Spider currently beating Nico Minoru 4-3
Mr. Sinister currently beating Karima Shapander 7-0
Korath currently beating Joystick 5-2
Stryfe currently beating Sauron 5-2

 

[primemover]

Scarlet Spider
Mr. Sinister
Korath
Stryfe

 

[hippy fascist]

Nico Minoru

Mr Sinister

Stryfe (In some instances a telepath with very little control can be more dangerous than a master)

Korath (Wieg came so close to convincing me... but korath wins by a nose)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Scarlet Spider beast Nico Minoru 5-4
Mr. Sinister beat Karima Shapander 9-0
Korath beat Joystick 7-2
Stryfe beat Sauron 7-2