Contest of Marvels II Thread 3

I didn't rebute everything towards the end because it's answered earlier.
True, Herc is mainly a one-note kinda guy, but he also has great battle experience. Knowing his opponent will definately help him out. Also, being in the same room helps him I think since Herc is basicalyl just a close range fighter. Less distance to cover to start the brawling.
Nimrod has tons of experience as well. And he can adapt his systems to better fight Hercules as the battle progresses. And all Nimrod has to do is teleport away if he needs to buy himself time.
The biggest problem with this is that SHIELD is probabyl one of the most secure technological paces there is. Even though he's from a future, there's a chance that SHIELD would recognize his hacking and the defense would turn on Nimrod.
If he has problems with the technolgoy, all Nimrod has to do is (eliminate and) disguise himself as one of the crew. This helps get him the time he would need; keeping both Hercules and the crew in the dark until the time is right. But, with a century of technology and information about the past, as well as interfacing with present day technologies, he shouldn't have too much problem with the helicarrier.
It is true that Herc will stop to protect som einnocents, but there are two major things to point out. 1. These are SHIELD trained people, they can get out of the way of most thing like falling debris and stuff without Herc's help, so he'd only need to really save a couple probably. 2. These are SHIELD trained people that were just attacked by Nimrod, that makes him an enemy. They would regroup and tear into Nimrod and help out Herc. And this Heli-carrier has some things that could definately do in Nimrod especially since his bio states that he has weaknesses to bio attacks like extreme cold. SHIELD would know this about him in their files and would hit him with freeze rays or whatever they have.
Facing off against the crew is a problem. But if Nimrod disguises himself, he can avoid detection. And if he's inside the system, he can mess all their defenses and weapons up.
The biggest problem I see here is that like you said, they start in very close quarters. Herc will be on Nimrod immediately not giving Nimrod any time at all to to and take over the computers (which still may be hack proof) The way he regenerates mostly is by reabsorbing the parts he lost back into himslef. He can't do this when Herc chucks his parts away off the Helicarrier.
Teleportation gives Nimrod all the time he'll need, and the advantage of striking Hercules from multiple directions without taking a single hit.
Well. he couldn't get too far out of range or else he is eliminated, and crashign the Helicarrier wouldn't do much to Herc. Remember, he dragged a damn heli-carrier when he was mortal, and now he is immortal again so one crashing wouldn't do anythign to him.
But knocking Herc, or teleporting Herc, off the carrier would since he can't fly and stay within range of the craft.
Nimrod is a powerful opponent that has many different attacks. The thing is though is that Herc has faced each type of attack before, and each one was more powerful than what Nimrod has at his disposal. Add this with the pissed off SHIELD guys that Nimrod attacked that will be helping Herc out and you have one messed up heli-carrier and a victorious Hercules. Also. I'll just poin tou thow he knocked out Juggernaut. Juggs helmet was off, and he used high frequency sonics to knock him unconscious. It has been shown before that sonics don't affect Hercules.
If sonics don't work, and Nimrod didn't already know that, then Nimrod will try other things, constantly upgrading his abilities. He may develop new, and more effective attacks. Maybe something we've never seen before since we've never seen all of Nimrod's weaponry or abilities.
Another thing to consider is that Nimrod was built to scan an predict mutant powers. Herc isn't a mutant, so while Nimrod can obviously figure out his powers, it could very well be impossible for him to adapt to them as he usually does since Hercules is in fact mystical.
Nimrod's wiki bio says his scanners detect superhuman powers and their type, not just mutants. Nimrod has so many resources to draw upon he'll eventually either overwhelm or outsmart Hercules.

Nimrod wins
 
There are a couple problems that I have with this opening debate.

1) I'm pretty positive your reference to Drax killing Thanos is from Annihilation, which has been stated as not being allowed to be used in the debates. The last reference you can use in regards to Drax is his miniseries, Drax The Destroyer.

2) Thanos has been killed, supposedly, before by other people. Just as I'm sure we'll discover he lives in a future comic after the events in Annihilation, he did the same a few times before.

3) Emma won't have to put up "one heck of a fight," because Drax's one weakness is his vulnerability to psychic attacks. This will be very quick; because, as I pointed out, Drax knows nothing about Emma and Emma will have a pretty damn good idea about Drax (and this location).

Winner = Emma Frost

Ok sorry, I didn't know that we couldn't use Annihilation. If that is true, then this is NOT the Drax with the Tatoos and would be the more powerful one from the past right?? It would be the "vastly more powerful and dangerous" Drax as you put it.
 
Ok sorry, I didn't know that we couldn't use Annihilation. If that is true, then this is NOT the Drax with the Tatoos and would be the more powerful one from the past right?? It would be the "vastly more powerful and dangerous" Drax as you put it.

It's the drax from the mini prior to annihilation. That mini was ruled to be admissable since it's not directly part of annihilation

note to phaed and JH: Not debating here, just answering his question...
 
No worries, you were just providing an answer to a question.

Yes, this is still the Drax you remember from Annihilation; but, you can only go up to the Drax mini, where he went through his transformation into the Drax we know and love today.
 
Freeze isn't the right word. It would really be New Sun taking away everyone's kinetic energy. They'd be motionless. Giving New Sun the time to focus on Wildside (if he didn't spot him right of the bat). So no one dies and they can continue to work on keeping the helicarrier flying.
Ah, but if he completely stops them from moving, they can't operate teh helicarrier which means it crashes and they die. Also, if he sends out a powerfve, he'll stop them from moving at all. That includes things like their heart which would most definately kill them. I still think an area wide attack on a flying fort with innocents is somethign that New Sun wouldn't risk at all, he'd go for just attacks on his opponent. Obviously you are going to think otherwise. I say it's up to the people to decide.

If Wildside uses his reality power, before New Sun stops him, and shows him some of these images, New Sun is likely to lash out in anger, rage, fear, and all of the other emotions he'll experience. Think of a wave of energy that spreads out from New Sun, taking down everyone else. It doesn't matter if he knocks the crew out. If Wildside falls, the match ends before the helicarrier falls.
Not if he is constantly making New Sun "see" Wildside in another place. If he thinks he is seeing Wildside runnign through the corridors to his east, why wouldn't he juyst follow and attack instead of using his area attack that could easily hurt/kill others?

Also, if Wildside made New Sun believe that he had detonated again and killed everything, that would majorly mess with New Sun. I mean his whole existence is basically to prevent that fomr happening again. If he saw this, then New Sun woudl either:

1. get out of there causing a disqaulification or

2. be in such shock he wouldn't really do anything. This would give Wildside time to strike him (remember he's invisible) and it only takes one strike.

New Sun could always avoid this by just unleashing a wave of energy at the start of the match. It doesn't have to kill, just incapacitate everyone, including Wildside.
this would still cause a major heli-carrier crash killing everyone.

Defenses can be 'frozen' like any thing else. Or New Sun could just detonate them. Or he can stop the fight before it gets that far by taking out Wildside nice and fast (maybe even to protect the crew from injury).
These are major defenses. Yeah he could probably take out quite a few fairly easily, but I would bet that SHIELD has prepared for mutant attacks. New Sun is a powerful mutant, but he's still a mutant. Mutant dampening technology has existed for years and I gaurantee you SHIELD has somethign liek that on board.

Another tactic is to detonate the equipment, floor, anything else around Wildside. The concussions from the blasts, or the injuries, can knock Wildside out or worse.
My whole argument is that WIldside will be messing with his mind, so he won't know where Widlside actualyl is. He might be thinking he has attacked Wildside, but in fact it was just an illusion.

Another thing to note is that while New Sun is very powerful, he isn't perfect. I mean he died because a statue fell on top of him and stabbed him. This shows that simply freezing everything thrown at him doesn't always work, so the SHIELD defenses could definately still get through.


Winner- Wildside
 
Anytime Nimrod feels threatened by Herc's strength, he can just teleport away to regroup, redesign, repair, whatever. In this case, if Hercules rushes him right off the bat, Nimrod can teleport behind Herc and attack him.
Yeah, and Herc can turn around an deasily defend himslef. Herc is much faster than Nimrod, and is one of the best combatants in the MU. Teleporting behind him isn't going to do much of anything.

Hercules will have to make contact with Nimrod. Not a guarantee. And Nimrod can always repair himself. Hercules would probably have to destroy him down to the molecular level to make sure he's stopped the sentinel.
Plenty of people have made contact with Nimrod before. He's been ripped up by Rogue before. IF she can get a hold of him, Herc definately can.

And every time Nimrod is damaged, or his forcefield is breached, he'll reconfigure himself to be stronger. If his weapons have no effect on Hercules, he'll ramp them up until they start to do something.
This is the problem. Nimrod generally doesn't make himself "stronger". He can reconfigure himslef to be better suited to his opponent, but can't get stronger like Hulk or something.

And that's the problem. He's been ripped up by powerhouses before, and then again. There is only so much he can do to strengthen his joints and machinery, and Herc is strong enough to always rip into him.

Not a bad idea, actually. But Nimrod can use pieces of the technology around him to rebuild himself (and teleport away if he needs the time).
True, but the tech he uses to repair himslef makes him weaker. it isn't as advanced as his futuristic technology, and he still has to adapt to using it. It's not like if Herc rips off his main laser gun, he can create a new one instantly by absorbing copper wiring in the wall. This is why he usually absorbs his old tech back into himslef whenever he can. Also, the bio talks about how not much is known of his teleportation abilities. That is because he doesn't use it that often. Every instance I have read about him teleporting, it has been in retreat. It wasn't somethign where he teleported five feet in the middle of battle and kept attacking. It migth be that he doesn't use it often because it takes up a lot of energy or whatever, but it has never been a major weapon of his.


I didn't rebute everything towards the end because it's answered earlier. Nimrod has tons of experience as well. And he can adapt his systems to better fight Hercules as the battle progresses. And all Nimrod has to do is teleport away if he needs to buy himself time. If he has problems with the technolgoy, all Nimrod has to do is (eliminate and) disguise himself as one of the crew. This helps get him the time he would need; keeping both Hercules and the crew in the dark until the time is right.
They atart fighting in the same room, so instantly turnign into a person in front of Hrec's eyes won't fool him. And while it states that the SHIELD people aren't fighting unoess they are brought into the fight, I gaurantee you they are watchign. SHIELD has tons of security checkpoints for all personell that would make it incredibly hard for Nimrod to get around. Especially since the Dreadnought was a major threat to a heli-carrier and is a robot. I gaurantee you since those thigns attacked, they have robotic defenses in place. Not to mention that when he does try to hack into SHIELD and take over the heli-carrier, that is an act against SHIELD which means they can attack Nimrod
Facing off against the crew is a problem. But if Nimrod disguises himself, he can avoid detection. And if he's inside the system, he can mess all their defenses and weapons up. Teleportation gives Nimrod all the time he'll need, and the advantage of striking Hercules from multiple directions without taking a single hit.
I still really think you are overplaying his teleportation ability. I haven't read a thing where he does this in battle.
But knocking Herc, or teleporting Herc, off the carrier would since he can't fly and stay within range of the craft.
But if he teleports Herc a mile away, HE has to be with Herc to teleport him, so he would be out of range as well.
If sonics don't work, and Nimrod didn't already know that, then Nimrod will try other things, constantly upgrading his abilities. He may develop new, and more effective attacks. Maybe something we've never seen before since we've never seen all of Nimrod's weaponry or abilities.
Right, and chances are any new attacks he has Herc has seen before. Herc has basicalyl gone up against every type of power or ability there is. Plus, those weapons he has won't be of use to him when Herc chucks them off the helicarrier and he can't reabsorb them. And he can't just make uber-powerful weapons by absorbing the tech in the heli-carrier, at least not instantaneously. That would take major time. The most he could do is if Herc rips off an arm, make a much weaker secondary arm form teh stuff on the Helicarrier.
Nimrod's wiki bio says his scanners detect superhuman powers and their type, not just mutants. Nimrod has so many resources to draw upon he'll eventually either overwhelm or outsmart Hercules.
It isn't easy to outsmart Herc in abttle. he might just look liek a drunk, but he is one of the best fighters in teh MU capable of going toe-to-toe with Thor and Hulk. In fact, the only thing harder to do that outsmart him in battle would be to overwhelm him. He has amazing durability and endurance and is basically immortal.

Nimrod has a great deal of attacks and can adapt, but he can only adapt so much. If he could really become that much strogner or more durable, than he would have just stuck to the upgrade long ago. All the attacks he has, Herc has seen before, and Herc has defeated before. I most cases, the attacks by the other people were stronger than what Nimrod has shown capable of. Herc will rip away at Nimrod form the start of the fight, and Nimrod's healing won't be able to keep up. Herc often holds back so he doesn't take a lifge, but against this machine he will be able ot truly let loose and destroy him.

Winner- Hercules
 
*Hercules - (Great debate. Nimrod hurts by not fighting a mutant. Plus, Hercules should have info on location and opponent; plus, if Nimrod teleports far enough away, he's out of location range.)

*Emma Frost

*New Sun - (Good job by Ky; but, New Sun is simply too powerful.)

*Fandral
 
Hercules
Wildside
Fandral
Emma Frost- Drax can brawl with the best of them, but Emma won't let it be that kind of fight.
 
Nimrod - Debates were both great, but Nimrod did just fine against Juggy, a non-mutant, so I think he can pull it off against Herc.
Fandral
New Sun - Though I will admit that I was almost 99% pursuaded the other way. I almost turned to wildside.
Emma Frost - I'd so wanted to see Drax cut this chick up and serve her as canned tuna through the space black market... but alas, I don't think it'd happen :(
 
Nimrod - It's the tech thing.
Emma Frost - Although I could've been swayed by more of a debate.
New Sun - Too much power.
Fandral
 
Hercules - he has the power and the battle knowledge

Emma Frost

New Sun - not much to say here but it will be interesting in the final rounds

Fandral
 
Emma frost (Her greatest skill is his greatest weakness)
Nimrod (Flexibility is once again the key here)
New Sun (Ky convinced me wildside had a chance of winning, but this about who would win most times, not once in a blue moon :()
Fandral (Kylun's blades don't work, there's not much he can do here)
 
Final Results:

Nimrod over Hercules 5-4
Emma Frost over Drax 8-1
New Sun over Wildside 8-1
Fandral over Kylun 8-1
 
CoM.jpg


BRACKET 5,

Match 7:

Punisher (ZOKEN) bio

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vs.

Warlock - M Tech (WIEGEABO) bio



Match 8:

Gorgon - Enemy of the State (PHAEDRUS45) bio

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vs.

Jean Grey (PHAEDRUS45) bio

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BRACKET 6,

Match 7:


Red Ghost (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

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VS.

Baldur (AHURA MAZDA) bio

th_Balder.jpg


Match 8:

Airwalker (KYTRIGGER) bio

th_Airwalker.jpg


vs.

Moonstone(HARLEKIN) bio

th_Moonstone.png
 
LOCATION: X-Mansion

Blueprints for the newly-rebuilt mansion were given in Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: X-Men 2004.
The X-Mansion is in the shape of an X. In the middle of the main courtyard is the Phoenix Memorial Statue, dedicated to the memory of Jean Grey. Notable rooms include the Danger Room and a room containing Cerebro. The Headmasters Office of Cyclops and Emma Frost is on the top floor. The basketball court is a popular hang-out; it was the site of a well-known basketball game in X-Men v2 #4 (January 1992) in which the X-Men used their mutant powers. Directly below the basketball court is the hangar, which houses many transportation vehicles, as well as aircraft such as the X-Men Blackbird.

(For more information, check out Wikipedia, which has a nice picture of the mansion.)
 
Warlock - M Tech vs Punisher

There's really not much the Punisher can do against Warlock. Any weapons he uses, Warlock can repair himself from. He can interface with the Mansion's systems and use them against Punisher. Maybe lead him into the Danger Room and turn the difficulty all the way up to 11.

If Warlock wants to, he can infect Frank with the techno-organic virus. Or he can just attack Frank physically and overwhelm him. Frank has put up a good fight so far, but is just outmatched in this battle.


Warlock wins
 
Punisher Vs. Warlock

Frank has shown long ago that he is a master of weaponry, not just guns. He is a smart soldier. He'll do his research on "Warlock" (there has to be some information on him as his death was a public spectacle). Find out that he is mart machine might inspire him to seet out an electro-magnetic type of weapon (concievable to be a part of the Danger Room after their last little tiff with it).

Frank is an adaptable soldier. he will recognize the enemy and change his tactics accordingly. Didn't the Punisher once kill demons? One mutant alien won't be that hard. Heck, Punisher lure the alien mutant into the Danger room, where the Punisher will have the advantage of ruthlessness, find the emergency kill switch and take out his alien competitor.
 
Punisher Vs. Warlock

Frank has shown long ago that he is a master of weaponry, not just guns. He is a smart soldier. He'll do his research on "Warlock" (there has to be some information on him as his death was a public spectacle). Find out that he is mart machine might inspire him to seet out an electro-magnetic type of weapon (concievable to be a part of the Danger Room after their last little tiff with it).

Warlock has access to far more information than Frank has. And I doubt Frank has access to an EMP or can build one himself. (Nor would Warlock let the Danger Room create such a device since he can control all the systems.)


Frank is an adaptable soldier. he will recognize the enemy and change his tactics accordingly. Didn't the Punisher once kill demons? One mutant alien won't be that hard. Heck, Punisher lure the alien mutant into the Danger room, where the Punisher will have the advantage of ruthlessness, find the emergency kill switch and take out his alien competitor.

Being able to access the Mansion's systems and learn the entire layout of the base, I think it's far more likely Warlock would trap Frank into the Danger Room, trapping him in simulation after simulation until Frank could no longer continue.

If Frank did trap him Warlock in there, Warlock could just take over the systems and shut the simulation down. And he can repair himself from any damage he takes.


If they face off against each other, Frank does have a good arsenal to use. And a few explosions could do some real damage. But all Warlock would have to do is snake some pieces of himself inside the mansion walls. While his primary body takes a beating, his other pieces burst out and attack Frank from behind. Even infecting him with the virus to bring him under control. Or, at the very least disarming him, making him that much easier of a target.


Warlock wins
 
BRACKET 6,

Match 7:


Red Ghost (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

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VS.

Baldur (AHURA MAZDA) bio

th_Balder.jpg

With regard to prep time, Balder could find out about the X-Mansion given the Asgardian information network which consists of 2 ravens who could find out about it. Plus Balder did spend time with the X-Men when they visited Asgard, who told him about their home.

The Red Ghost as a villain is not going to find any information on the X-Mansion. He also will not know Balder except what is in nordic mythology.

Balder is a powerful Asgardian with a few bonuses. For one, he is the God of Light and Marvel states:

"Balder has the ability to radiate unmeasured degrees of heat and light"

He also can only be harmed by mistletoe (Asgardian mistletoe), at least in Asgard. However I have never seem him harmed on Earth either.

Besides all that, he is a premier warrior with eons of skills and comes with full armour and deadly weapons.

The Red Ghost can turn intangible and become a ghost. This is all god and everything but there is nothing he can harm Balder with. So really if at any point red Ghost turns tangible and eventually he has to the match would end extremely swiftly as Balder is a class 40 warrior, with powers of light and heat and superspeed, not to mention he is ofr all intents and purposes invulnerable.

Winner - Balder
 
Gorgon vs. Jean Grey:

I still don't know who I'd want to go through. I'm going to lose an excellent character, either way I look at it. Jean Grey won't know about Gorgon, as she was dead before he appeared on the scene, I believe. Anyway, it's up to you guys....I just don't know.
 

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