Contest of Marvels II Thread 3

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Cloak vs Shadowcat

Okay, so it'd be pretty easy for either of these people to get info on the other. [...] Cloak can teleport, which is a big aid to him, and Kitty has more resources and training.

I'm in full agreeance.

The idea is that Kitty will bring a portable cerebro unit so that she can track Cloak (he is a mutant afterall). She will have a hard time finding him in the shadows of the prison, but the cerebro unit will aid him in that. Kitty has also been trained as a ninja and a shield agent. If she doesn't want to be seen, it will be difficult for Cloak to find her as well. So both can dodge one another, but Kitty has an added bonus to find her foe.

I'll give you that the mini-Cerebro will be really handy in aiding her search for Cloak, but as for her staying unseen... that's a bit of a problem. The moment she makes herself known, Cloak will be aware of it, and can employ a number of strategies. He can teleport away untill the confrontation is more in his favour, or he can teleport near her and take first blood. Thanks to his teleporation powers, he really decides when and how the fight goes down.

So she finds Cloak... what now? Both are phasing people, but something that some don't know, is that if two people are phased, they make contact. [...] This means that if it gets physical, it comes down to the best fighter... which is Kitty by far.

Yeah, I have that issue as well, which is what I based my opening argument on too. Thing is, that yes, Kitty is by far the better fighter, but Cloak can simply keep avoiding her untill he decides the time is right. Obviously, the first chance he gets, he's destroying the portable Cerebro.

Now the only saving grace that Cloak has left is his dark demention cloak, and his teleportation. If he manages to teleport away from Kitty, and surprise her, she has her cerebro unit to find him instantly. That takes away that tactic.

Like I said, his first move will be a hit and run. Destroy the Cerebro, and it's his game, because he decides where to throw down and how.

What's left... the dark force cloak. Now this is the hardest thing for Kitty to challenge, but the first thing is that when Kitty is phased, she's as good as air, and I wonder if she could even be pulled into the cloak. Not only that, but if she was managed to be sucked into the cloak... it's been seen in the past that people can overcome the cloak, such as Spiderman and Carnage. Both are strong willed people, and with all the mental training that Kitty's had, I'd think that she'd be able to do this as well, though I'm sure it'd effect her.

It's not so much about the physical properties of the cloak, but the darkness that envelops her. No amount of phasing will keep from that happening. She may be strong willed, but the main function of the darkness is still sucking the life out of her. He just needs to employ this tactic often enough, and Kitty is out of the game. As long as he can keep her disorientated and surprised, she won't be able to get in anything edgewise.

So what it comes down to, is that Kitty can overcome anything that Cloak can throw at her.

Like I said, not necessarily.

I think all it will come down to in the end is the phasing ninja moves that take Cloak out. He's physically stronger as Cloak, than as Tyrone, but he's never been a physical fighter, and Kitty will use this to her advantage. In the end, she will come out on top.

I respectfully disagree, and point out that considering Cloak really isn't much of a physical fighter, that's exactly what he'll be avoiding, a physical confrontation. Considering Kitty will only be effective in that situation, that takes away any advantage she would have.

WINNER=CLOAK

 

[Harlekin]

REBUTTAL: Hisako Ichiki vs Random

Because this is a rematch, and both opponents remember what happened the last time, Random is going to have the big advantage this time.

Like I've outlined in my opening argument, not necessarily.

Random can adapt to Hisako's mutation by becoming immune to her armor. [...] And Random has his arm-guns as an additional weapon.

Except he still would have to know what exactly to adapt too, and I'm still not sure this is actually a conscious act. Most biographies I've read (such as the one at marvel.com) say his powers "randomly deflect any mutant powers", so there's no definitive adaption to her powers.

Still, knowing that she can't confront Random in a physical match (although I still think that the old take-by-surprise-tactic should work) she's going to have to play the game by smarts, which means using the prison to her advantage. She's a smart enough girl to figure out what most of the controls would do, and from then on it's all about luring Random in a trap, using the prison's cells and armory to her advantage.

WINNER=HISAKO ICHIKI

 

[wiegeabo]

REBUTTAL: Hisako Ichiki vs Random


Like I've outlined in my opening argument, not necessarily.


Except he still would have to know what exactly to adapt too, and I'm still not sure this is actually a conscious act. Most biographies I've read (such as the one at marvel.com) say his powers "randomly deflect any mutant powers", so there's no definitive adaption to her powers.

Still, knowing that she can't confront Random in a physical match (although I still think that the old take-by-surprise-tactic should work) she's going to have to play the game by smarts, which means using the prison to her advantage. She's a smart enough girl to figure out what most of the controls would do, and from then on it's all about luring Random in a trap, using the prison's cells and armory to her advantage.

Random's wiki bio says he can reconstruct his body at will, and this is what gives him the ability to counteract any mutant ability.

As for Hisako laying out traps, Random is no idiot. He was a very good bounty hunter. And while he is impusive, that would have been during the first fight. Now he knows Hisako may prove a match for him, so he's going to be taking this fight seriously. He'll be very careful now.

What can Random do? He could become gelatinous and ooze through the air vents or other tight spaces, avoiding detection and traps, until he find Hisako. Or he could take the brute force method and just use his weapons to blast his way out of traps and to Hisako.

And there's nothing to say that Random doesn't find the controls first and use the prison against Hisako. He may even get a kick out of using all the prison defenses against her. And when she's nicely worn down, he finishes the job (or gets her close enough for his counter-acting mutation to work).


Random wins

 

[kytrigger]

Victor would bury Shaw, literally. Now the building may be made of concrete, though I would assume more likely that it is made of corragated steel and other metal, it will have metal support as well as metal equipment, and metal bars, and lots of metal. Victor, knowing that one cannot breath while intangible or phased in something would literally bury the man in the metal. either: A he crushes him or he emerges and has to solidify to breath and he hits him with metal.

Rebuttal

And if that is the case, he emerges as hard as diamond so the metal won't actually hurt him. Also, Victor can't just start demolishing the entire place, he's in it too. And you have to remember that he is still part human, and doing this would kill him.

Also, the more things he starts tossing, the more apparrent his powers are to Shaw. If Shaw starts seeing him rip apart walls and whatnot, he's going to phase of course, buthe's not going to just stand there, he's going to try and end this fight as quickly as possible. He'll just run at Victor and go straight for either the brain or the heart.

Winner- Shinobi Shaw

 

[Trigger]

REMATCH:

Microbe (TRIGGER) bio



vs.

Maxam (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio

Despite a change in setting, this fight is still no walk in the park for either contestant. While there are less people to fight, there is still just as many bacteria (if not more) in the jail for Microbe to command. For the most part, the same strategy from the last round applies. Microbe would have to hide from Maxam (which isn't that hard in a large prison facility) and simply wait for Maxam to die of some random disease in a secluded area.
What follows are just my main point on why this would still work.

1. Bacteria live everywhere. Let me say this again. Bacteria live everywhere. Unless Maxam's people (assuming he's not human) have completely different physiologies. Maxam should have some in his body like us.

2. Microbe can communicate with bacteria, and if confronted face to face by Maxam, I see no reason why he couldn't affect them too. All he has to do is tell them: Stop doing you job! and Maxam would be dead within the hour, and let me tell you, his death would not be a pleasent one. I'd love to see how tough Maxam is while his digestive tract struggles to breakdown the nutrients and carbohydrates in his body. Or even better, let's see him fight while also dealing with a nasty case of Peritonitis, a disease that proves to be fatal when not treated promptly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peritonitis

3. Regeneration and/or being impervious is useless when your body is breaking down on its own.

Winner= Microbe, by a hair.

 

[JewishHobbit]

REBUTTAL: Cloak vs Shadowcat

I'll give you that the mini-Cerebro will be really handy in aiding her search for Cloak, but as for her staying unseen... that's a bit of a problem. The moment she makes herself known, Cloak will be aware of it, and can employ a number of strategies. He can teleport away untill the confrontation is more in his favour, or he can teleport near her and take first blood. Thanks to his teleporation powers, he really decides when and how the fight goes down.

I'll agree that his teleportation is his greatest strength in this match... but remember that he's facing a girl whose faught and trained beside Nightcrawler from day one of her time with the X-Men, then directly to Excalibur after the Mutant Massacre/Fall of the Mutants, and then when Excalibur disbanned, they went together to the X-Men again, and remained ever since (save a short break in the middle). She is absolutely trained to counter teleporters, and the cerebro unit will help her get the drop on Cloak to put the fight in her favor. If he manages to get away from her first attack, as stated before, she can track him. If he gets close enough in her teleportation, she's trained to deal with it and can get away or counter. His cloak's dark demension is rough, but it doesn't suck people in, he grabs them and engulfs them. She can phase through it if it holds her, and she can counter if it gets too close.

Push come to shove, there's a move I've only seen her do once, but I can't remember when it was (I know we have other X-Men buffs, maybe someone can help me out remembering when it was). Basically, she phased through EVERYTHING, including gravity, atmosphere, etc. and she basically stood still while the earth spun around her. If she does this for a split second, she'll suddenly be on the other side of the prison (or shortly out of it), or she can phase continually until she gets all the way around the world for a quick back attack. I don't know how long that would take, but it'd only work if she has enough time to get around and not be disqualified. It may never even come to that, but it's a strategy.

Yeah, I have that issue as well, which is what I based my opening argument on too. Thing is, that yes, Kitty is by far the better fighter, but Cloak can simply keep avoiding her untill he decides the time is right. Obviously, the first chance he gets, he's destroying the portable Cerebro.

How's he going to do that? Karate chop it? He'd have to get close to do that, and she's a trained expert at hand to hand battle. Things start to fall in her favor.

It's not so much about the physical properties of the cloak, but the darkness that envelops her. No amount of phasing will keep from that happening. She may be strong willed, but the main function of the darkness is still sucking the life out of her. He just needs to employ this tactic often enough, and Kitty is out of the game. As long as he can keep her disorientated and surprised, she won't be able to get in anything edgewise.

Refer to previous idea about phasing out of everything. Quick getaway. And as stated before, strong wills can escape the cloak, and Kitty's ALWAYS had a strong will! It'd be hard, but she can avoid it.

WINNER=Kitty Pryde

 

[Harlekin]

I'll agree that his teleportation is his greatest strength in this match... [...] If he gets close enough in her teleportation, she's trained to deal with it and can get away or counter.

I'll agree that she has a measure of experience with the whole teleporting thing, which gives her an edge.

His cloak's dark demension is rough, but it doesn't suck people in, he grabs them and engulfs them. She can phase through it if it holds her, and she can counter if it gets too close.

It's not just the cloak, it's all engulfing darkness. She wouldn't even be able to see anything.

Push come to shove, there's a move I've only seen her do once, but I can't remember when it was (I know we have other X-Men buffs, maybe someone can help me out remembering when it was). [...] I don't know how long that would take, but it'd only work if she has enough time to get around and not be disqualified. It may never even come to that, but it's a strategy.

She did that in X-Treme X-Men, while captive by William Stryker, and the move was not a good one. If I remember right, it started to severely disrupt the Earth. It's not a particularly handy move, and not one she has initiated on her own. It would also constitute leaving the prison, so that wouldn't fly. It's not a particularly handy move for battle.

How's he going to do that? Karate chop it? He'd have to get close to do that, and she's a trained expert at hand to hand battle. Things start to fall in her favor.

Engulf her in darkness and take it from her, and smash it against a wall. He's also quite a bit stronger as Cloak, so he could probably just plain hit it hard enough, and get out before Kitty gets a chance to retaliate. She wouldn't have an idea of where he's coming from.

And as stated before, strong wills can escape the cloak, and Kitty's ALWAYS had a strong will! It'd be hard, but she can avoid it.

Yes, but how many times will she able to resist it? Cloak has the time, if he just chips at her lifeforce, at her will, eventually she will succumb.

WINNER=CLOAK

 

[Iceman]

Rebuttal: MAXAM Vs MICROBE

Despite a change in setting, this fight is still no walk in the park for either contestant. While there are less people to fight, there is still just as many bacteria (if not more) in the jail for Microbe to command. For the most part, the same strategy from the last round applies. Microbe would have to hide from Maxam (which isn't that hard in a large prison facility) and simply wait for Maxam to die of some random disease in a secluded area.

Prisons by definition don't tend to be built with too many potential hiding places unless the designers specifically wish to make life easy for the (super powered) inmates and impossible for the warders. Under nearly all circumstances, they have open plan designs so that occupants are visible whenever possible. Using his horizontal flight, Maxam will have covered every inch of the prison within 5-10 minutes. It will take him only seconds to kill Microbe when he sets eyes on (or more likely smells) him.

What follows are just my main point on why this would still work.

1. Bacteria live everywhere. Let me say this again. Bacteria live everywhere. Unless Maxam's people (assuming he's not human) have completely different physiologies. Maxam should have some in his body like us.

If Microbe can kill a cosmic being in mid-flight before it can manage to hit / collide with him even once (which is what the guy needs to do to stay alive here), he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel universe. Even if Microbe’s techniques could have any long term effect on Maxam (and I don’t see any evidence of Microbe being able to affect other invulnerable beings with equivalent powers), this is effectively just a super-fast game of hide and seek culminating in a speedy death way before any long term tactics have time to take effect.

2. Microbe can communicate with bacteria, and if confronted face to face by Maxam, I see no reason why he couldn't affect them too. All he has to do is tell them: Stop doing you job! and Maxam would be dead within the hour, and let me tell you, his death would not be a pleasent one. I'd love to see how tough Maxam is while his digestive tract struggles to breakdown the nutrients and carbohydrates in his body. Or even better, let's see him fight while also dealing with a nasty case of Peritonitis, a disease that proves to be fatal when not treated promptly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peritonitis

If Maxam is face to face with Microbe (as stated above) he will need only a second to kill him. I’d love to see how Microbe deals with one of Maxam’s class 100 strength blows; they prove fatal no matter how well treated. If Maxam flies in Microbe’s direction as soon as he sees him, the momentum generated by Maxam’s invulnerable body even at relatively low speed will destroy Microbe’s frail frame before he gets a chance to do anything.

3. Regeneration and/or being impervious is useless when your body is breaking down on its own.

Even if this were the case (and there is no precedent to suggest that it could be), it would still take far too long to be of any use in this fight.

All the tactics described are long term strategies and fit exactly with what Maxam would expect given his experience of the first "battle" in Transia. This time he knows that he needs to go for the kill as soon as the clock starts ticking and the path to victory is much clearer.

WINNER = MAXAM

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Harlekin]

Things just keep on getting tougher.

Scorpio
Shinobi Shaw
Cloak
Wrecker
Hisako Ichiki
Maxam

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Scorpio

*Victor Mancha

*Kitty Pryde

*Thialfi

*Hisako Ichiki

*Maxam

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Scorpio
Victor
Shadowcat
Thialif
Hisako
Maxam

 

[kytrigger]

Maxam
Random
Wrecker
Cloak
Shinobi Shaw
Scorpio

 

[hippy fascist]

Scorpio (don't know either character so checked wiki and scorpio is just too powerful)
Victor (I was with shaw till I was reminded about having to hold breath while phasing, good debating skills )
Shadowcat (too close to call but kitty's one of my all time favourite characters so...)
Wrecker (You debate you win)
Hisako (never liked random, never will)
Maxam (Too powerful to go any other way)

 

[Darthphere]

Scorpio
Victor
Shadowcat
Wrecker
Hisako
Maxam

 

[Hellstormer]

Microbe

Hisako

Kitty (Those fighting skills)

Thialfi (kinda felt more probable)

Scorpio (Just a bit more convincing)

Victor

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Scorpio currently beating Killer Shrike 7-0
Victor Mancha currently beating Shinobi Shaw 5-2
Kitty Pryde currently beating Cloak 5-2
Wrecker currently beating Thialfi 4-3
Hisako Ichiki currently beating Random 6-1
Maxam currently beating Microbe 6-1

 

[Zoken]

Scorpio
Victor "Victorious" Mancha
Kitty Pryde
Wrecker
Hisako Ichiki
Microbe

 

[JewishHobbit]

Scorpio
Victor Mancha (Good debate with Shaw though!)
Kitty Pryde
Wrecker
Hisako Ichiki (Close one for me, I really liked Random too )
Maxam

 

[Zoken]

It is a testament to how hopeless KS was that not even I am voting for that guy

 

[Darren Daring]

Scorpio
Victor Mancha
Kitty Pryde
Wrecker
Hisako Ichiki
Maxam

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Scorpio
Shaw - just because if he could hold his daimond hard form he should be able to withstand Victor, and using his phasing ability could take him out
Cloak
Wrecker
Random
Maxam

 

[Phaedrus45]

Results So Far:

Scorpio currently beating Killer Shrike 11-0
Victor Mancha currently beating Shinobi Shaw 8-3
Kitty Pryde currently beating Cloak 8-3
Wrecker currently beating Thialfi 8-3
Hisako Ichiki currently beating Random 9-2
Maxam currently beating Microbe 9-2

 

[Trigger]

Microbe
Kitty Pride
Hisako
Victor Mancha
Scorpio
Wrecker (though I thought it was my choice if it was between two of my own characters?)

 

[Midnight Ice]

Scorpio
Victor
Shadowcat
Wrecker
Hisako
Maxam