Contest of Marvels II Thread 3

[Hellstormer]

Match 12:

Toxin (HELLSTORMER) bio

vs.

Drax (HELLSTORMER) bio

Hmmm I dunno, I think I'll give it up to whoever wins by the votes.


This is actually really hard in my mind.

 

[Hellstormer]

BRACKET 6,

Match 11:

Kylun (PRIMEMOVER) bio

vs.

Man-Thing (HELLSTORMER) bio

Now this is a fairly easy battle for Man-Thing because Kylun has no abilities that can actually harm Man-Thing. Let me just make the abilities clear:

Man-Thing:Superhuman strength and durability,
Ability to secrete corrosive chemical agent
-also-

The Man-Thing's body is practically invulnerable to harm. Because his body is not entirely solid, but composed of the muck and vegetative matter of the swamp, fists, bullets, knives, energy blasts, etc. will either pass entirely through him or will harmlessly be lodged within his body. Even if a vast portion of the Man-Thing's body were to be ripped away or incinerated, he would be able to reorganize himself by drawing the necessary material from the surrounding vegetation. (which the Raft will probaly have)
-and-
Unusual psychic and mystical forces react in what passes as the "brain" cells located throughout his body. These unique forces render the Man-Thing extremely sensitive to emotions. Emotions that are mild and generally considered positive arouse curiosity and the Man-Thing will sometimes observe from a distance. However, emotions that are often viewed as negative, such as violent emotions, rage, anger, hatred and fear, cause the Man-Thing great discomfort and might provoke him to attack. Once provoked into violent actions, his body secretes highly concentrated sulfuric acid that can burn human beings to ashes within a matter of seconds. Even individuals that have high levels of superhuman durability have proven unable to withstand this potent acid

Then Kylun can reproduce any sound that he's heard with fantastic accuracy. He is also a master swordsman

This means Kylun will spend the entire time trying to harm Man-Thing which will anger him and cause his acid to start oozing causing Kylun to burn and die.

Winner=Man-Thing

 

[Harlekin]

OPENING COMMENTS: Fandral vs Electro

Electro is a powerful character that gets his ass handed to him pretty regularly by Spider-Man. Not only does Fandral have better stamina than Spidey, he's also quite a bit stronger. The only advantage he doesn't have over Spidey is the science aspect and the agility (although Fandral is quite nimble himself).

Also, I think this says enough:


Fandral is as strong as Cage and not afraid to hit this pansy either.

WINNER=FANDRAL

 

[primemover]

Kylun vs. Man-Thing - Opening remarks

Kylun is a mutant from another dimension who's power is the ability to mimic any sound perfectly. He is also a master swordsman with two mystical swords that dispel magicks and powerful enough to cleave rocks with little effort. The swords though cannot effect those 'pure of heart', as he once attacked Nightcrawler with it and it passed through him without harm. He is also a natural born leader and is fearless and brave in battle facing multi-verseal foes.

Man-Thing is a non-sentient mass of swampweed given power chemically and mystically via the swamp itself. He is basically moved by emotion and only becomes active when moved by negative emotions such as fear and hate. He also releases corrosive agents to burn those full of fear.


Kylun's native mutant power is virtually worthless in this battle, but luckily he won't need it as his mystical swords, skills with those swords, and his composure in battle will enable him to claim victory in this battle.

Man-Thing is basically a mystical construct of swamp materials, often called 'soulless', he is also motivated by emotions, mainly fear, these are the major points to bring up.

The battlefield is pretty irrevelant here, not favoring either opponent, though Man-Thing could be slightly hampered by being away from his swamp, and basically being on an island of rock and metal, almost void of life.

Prep-time would be minimal for Kylun, and non-existant for Man-Thing, as he's not really even sentient. Kylun could probably know basic information on Man-Thing, but I doubt he would know the inner workings of him.


As for the battle, Man-Thing would sense Kylun through emotions, but those emotions would not give Man-Thing anymore more than some idle curiosity, and even in the face of such a monster, Kylun wouldn't be moved to fear as he's faced much worse in his battles across the multi-verse.

Kylun's swords are what turns this battle, as they are mystical in nature and can affect and dispel magicks upon contact, and as it's mystical energies that powers Man-Thing and his swamp construct body, these weapons would tear him apart with ease, and then block Man-Things ability to reconstruct himself the same way. Since the Man-Thing has no soul, and is basically only matter, Kyluns swords would affect him.

The proof of this is in Excalibur #48 where Kylun easily destroys mystical constructs made of rock created by a Necrom mystic.

Winner: Kylun

 

[primemover]

Kylun vs. Man-Thing - Rebuttal

Now this is a fairly easy battle for Man-Thing because Kylun has no abilities that can actually harm Man-Thing. Let me just make the abilities clear:

You are mistaken, his mystical swords have every ability to hurt and effect Man-Thing. Man-Thing is a mystical construct of swamp matter and is basically soulless, his swords would cleave through him without fail, and due to their magicks dispelling abilities, keep him from reforming.

Man-Thing:Superhuman strength and durability,
Ability to secrete corrosive chemical agent
-also-

Then Kylun can reproduce any sound that he's heard with fantastic accuracy. He is also a master swordsman

This means Kylun will spend the entire time trying to harm Man-Thing which will anger him and cause his acid to start oozing causing Kylun to burn and die.

Man-Things corrosive agent is only released when fear is present in his foes, Kylun is a fearless warrior so this will not be effective.

Winner: Kylun

 

[Hellstormer]

Kylun vs. Man-Thing - Opening remarks

Kylun is a mutant from another dimension who's power is the ability to mimic any sound perfectly. He is also a master swordsman with two mystical swords that dispel magicks and powerful enough to cleave rocks with little effort. The swords though cannot effect those 'pure of heart', as he once attacked Nightcrawler with it and it passed through him without harm. He is also a natural born leader and is fearless and brave in battle facing multi-verseal foes.

Man-Thing has the innocence of a child, he's not just a pile of vegetation, at one time he was brilliant scientist, but now he's compared to being a naive child.

Man-Thing is a non-sentient mass of swampweed given power chemically and mystically via the swamp itself. He is basically moved by emotion and only becomes active when moved by negative emotions such as fear and hate. He also releases corrosive agents to burn those full of fear.

Not just the swamp but any vegetation gices him abilties, however he is strongest at the swamp. And to say he's not sentient is a huge misconception. As in my above statement Man-Thing has the innocence and mind of a child. He understands, to a degree, what is happening.

Man-Thing is basically a mystical construct of swamp materials, often called 'soulless', he is also motivated by emotions, mainly fear, these are the major points to bring up.

I'm looking through my Man-Thing issues and appearence and no one that actually understands him calls him that. Back in his first appearence townsfolk called him that because they thought he was evil.

The battlefield is pretty irrevelant here, not favoring either opponent, though Man-Thing could be slightly hampered by being away from his swamp, and basically being on an island of rock and metal, almost void of life.

There's still vegetation in the surrounding water and probaly under the prison.

Prep-time would be minimal for Kylun, and non-existant for Man-Thing, as he's not really even sentient. Kylun could probably know basic information on Man-Thing, but I doubt he would know the inner workings of him.

I doubt either opponent can get any info seeing as how very few people know of Man-Thing.

As for the battle, Man-Thing would sense Kylun through emotions, but those emotions would not give Man-Thing anymore more than some idle curiosity, and even in the face of such a monster, Kylun wouldn't be moved to fear as he's faced much worse in his battles across the multi-verse.

Kylun would be giving off aggressive vibes causing Man-Thing to find him and see what happens, when Kylun starts attacking the corrosive will start oozing from him and burn Kylun and his swords.

Kylun's swords are what turns this battle, as they are mystical in nature and can affect and dispel magicks upon contact, and as it's mystical energies that powers Man-Thing and his swamp construct body, these weapons would tear him apart with ease, and then block Man-Things ability to reconstruct himself the same way. Since the Man-Thing has no soul, and is basically only matter, Kyluns swords would affect him.

You must really not know Man-Thing well. His abilities are both magical and scientific and it is unknown what powers are caused by his mystical prescence and his scientific background. Meaning that arguement is void.

Kylun vs. Man-Thing - Rebuttal



You are mistaken, his mystical swords have every ability to hurt and effect Man-Thing. Man-Thing is a mystical construct of swamp matter and is basically soulless, his swords would cleave through him without fail, and due to their magicks dispelling abilities, keep him from reforming.

For that to work he's have to keep the swords lodges in Man-Thing which he can respond by...pulling them out. There's really no way to hurt Man-Thing if there's any vegetation nearby.

Man-Things corrosive agent is only released when fear is present in his foes, Kylun is a fearless warrior so this will not be effective.

Anger, rage, aggresion, any negative emotions cause it to come out.

Winner=Man-Thing

 

[primemover]

Man-Thing has the innocence of a child, he's not just a pile of vegetation, at one time he was brilliant scientist, but now he's compared to being a naive child.

Not just the swamp but any vegetation gices him abilties, however he is strongest at the swamp. And to say he's not sentient is a huge misconception. As in my above statement Man-Thing has the innocence and mind of a child. He understands, to a degree, what is happening.

I'm looking through my Man-Thing issues and appearence and no one that actually understands him calls him that. Back in his first appearence townsfolk called him that because they thought he was evil.

He is as close to non-sentient as you can get, even the official marvel website and handbooks consider this as fact. At some times mystical entities and forces have reverted Sallis's mind to Man-Thing, but those were temporary and under very special circumstances. The comics time and time again refers to him as 'mindless' and he has been referred to not have any thoughts of his own, and is only driven by the emotions of others.

Otherwise he is a robot that is only motivated by the emotions around him, which can make him seem sentient at a small childs level, it isn't. All emotions interest and motivate him, violent emotions bring him to violence himself, and fear itself is so unwanted he will not stop until it is quashed, oftentimes burning those who fear by touch.

There's still vegetation in the surrounding water and probaly under the prison.

Actually he is only powered by swamp environments, mainly the one he is from, as it's a mystical place. In another instance the mystical place, Sominus, aided him in replenishing his energies. Again refer to the Marvel website and handbooks, and I have seen nothing in the comics to say this isn't the case.

Kylun would be giving off aggressive vibes causing Man-Thing to find him and see what happens, when Kylun starts attacking the corrosive will start oozing from him and burn Kylun and his swords.

Anger, rage, aggresion, any negative emotions cause it to come out.

Maybe it's you that doesn't know much about Man-Thing, all of the official Marvel handbooks and website state it's only the emotion of Fear that causes those corrosives to come out, and of all the 3 dozen Man-Thing appearences I have researched back that up. Not ONCE did this corrosive element appear with any other emotion but Fear, in fact all of those times the comic itself states the victim was overcome with fear and 'Whoever knows fear burns at the Man-Things touch!'

You must really not know Man-Thing well. His abilities are both magical and scientific and it is unknown what powers are caused by his mystical prescence and his scientific background. Meaning that arguement is void.
For that to work he's have to keep the swords lodges in Man-Thing which he can respond by...pulling them out. There's really no way to hurt Man-Thing if there's any vegetation nearby.

So you state it's 'unknown what powers are caused by his mystical presence and scientific background', yet you claim my supposition is false.

He is powered mystically, the Nexus of Realities, his home swamp environment, is one of the only places he has shown the ability to replenish himself after being away from it for long periods of time, or being beaten down. The only other place has been the realm of Sominus, which is a mystical realm. All other times he has only shown the ability to rebuild his original form when away from the swamp, but over time, and duress this ability will falter.

Kyluns swords have proven to dispel magicks, and cleave through even the toughest elements like stone or metals, these things and Man-Thing being away from the Nexus will prove his undoing. Kylun would have no problem cutting off any part of Man-Thing that attacks him, as Kylun is a master swordsman and has fought quicker and tougher foes, over time he will tire Man-Thing ultimately leaving him in need of being replenished to continue, which cannot happen.

And again, he's not in a swamp environment, so the vegetation will not help him, unless you can prove that The Raft is a swamp environment.

Kylun is a great fit to take out Man-Thing, he has the skills and the tools to do so and the environment hinders Man-Thing.

Winner: Kylun

 

[Hellstormer]

He is as close to non-sentient as you can get, even the official marvel website and handbooks consider this as fact. At some times mystical entities and forces have reverted Sallis's mind to Man-Thing, but those were temporary and under very special circumstances. The comics time and time again refers to him as 'mindless' and he has been referred to not have any thoughts of his own, and is only driven by the emotions of others.

Otherwise he is a robot that is only motivated by the emotions around him, which can make him seem sentient at a small childs level, it isn't. All emotions interest and motivate him, violent emotions bring him to violence himself, and fear itself is so unwanted he will not stop until it is quashed, oftentimes burning those who fear by touch.

Fine but you said his sword doesn't effect someone of pure heart, then how can it effect someone that isn't even aware of good or bad?

Actually he is only powered by swamp environments, mainly the one he is from, as it's a mystical place. In another instance the mystical place, Sominus, aided him in replenishing his energies. Again refer to the Marvel website and handbooks, and I have seen nothing in the comics to say this isn't the case.

??? Gimme links cause I have seen no instance where he has only been able to draw form the swamp.

Maybe it's you that doesn't know much about Man-Thing, all of the official Marvel handbooks and website state it's only the emotion of Fear that causes those corrosives to come out, and of all the 3 dozen Man-Thing appearences I have researched back that up. Not ONCE did this corrosive element appear with any other emotion but Fear, in fact all of those times the comic itself states the victim was overcome with fear and 'Whoever knows fear burns at the Man-Things touch!'

Links man links! It says on the wiki, and through my own knowledge, that any negative emotions makes him attack and causes the oozing.

He is powered mystically, the Nexus of Realities, his home swamp environment, is one of the only places he has shown the ability to replenish himself after being away from it for long periods of time, or being beaten down. The only other place has been the realm of Sominus, which is a mystical realm. All other times he has only shown the ability to rebuild his original form when away from the swamp, but over time, and duress this ability will falter.

Kyluns swords have proven to dispel magicks, and cleave through even the toughest elements like stone or metals, these things and Man-Thing being away from the Nexus will prove his undoing. Kylun would have no problem cutting off any part of Man-Thing that attacks him, as Kylun is a master swordsman and has fought quicker and tougher foes, over time he will tire Man-Thing ultimately leaving him in need of being replenished to continue, which cannot happen.

And again, he's not in a swamp environment, so the vegetation will not help him, unless you can prove that The Raft is a swamp environment.

Kylun is a great fit to take out Man-Thing, he has the skills and the tools to do so and the environment hinders Man-Thing.

You must not have read the statement I took directly from the wiki so I'll give it to you again.

The Man-Thing's body is practically invulnerable to harm. Because his body is not entirely solid, but composed of the muck and vegetative matter of the swamp, fists, bullets, knives, energy blasts, etc. will either pass entirely through him or will harmlessly be lodged within his body. Even if a vast portion of the Man-Thing's body were to be ripped away or incinerated, he would be able to reorganize himself by drawing the necessary material from the surrounding vegetation.

Here's the link if you don't believe me, 3rd paragraph down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Thing#Superhuman_abilities

Man-thing is one of my favortie characters in the MU, he was number 3 on my list for this comp. I know who he is and how his powers work.

Winner=Man-Thing

EDIT: And we haven't even been debating the actual battles, Man-thing is Super strong and durable swords pass right through him because he is much and even if the sword was to ripp off a chunk the swords magial numbing won't really do anything unless its lodged in him. Kylun will be ash in seconds.

 

[primemover]

Fine but you said his sword doesn't effect someone of pure heart, then how can it effect someone that isn't even aware of good or bad?

He is just swamp matter, the swords can affect matter.

??? Gimme links cause I have seen no instance where he has only been able to draw form the swamp.

Links man links! It says on the wiki, and through my own knowledge, that any negative emotions makes him attack and causes the oozing.

I gave you the link, to the Marvel website, which reflects the handbooks.

Only FEAR causes the corrosive eooze to come, violent emotions only cause him to be violent also. Like I said, I have read almost 3 dozen of Man-Things appearances, and NOT ONCE does this corrosive ooze come without Fear being in who he is attacking.

You need to show evidence of it happening with any other emotion than Fear, as the Marvel website, the handbooks, and the actual comics himself show. I have done the research, and research beyond just looking at the Wiki, your turn.

You must not have read the statement I took directly from the wiki so I'll give it to you again.

Here's the link if you don't believe me, 3rd paragraph down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Thing#Superhuman_abilities

The Wiki is mistaken, the Marvel website and handbooks trump show, as does the countless comics I have researched, it is ridiculous that you actually are presenting otherwise. Official documents and comic events always trump the Wiki information, which is often times innacurate.

Winner: Kylun

 

[Hellstormer]

He is just swamp matter, the swords can affect matter.



I gave you the link, to the Marvel website, which reflects the handbooks.

Only FEAR causes the corrosive eooze to come, violent emotions only cause him to be violent also. Like I said, I have read almost 3 dozen of Man-Things appearances, and NOT ONCE does this corrosive ooze come without Fear being in who he is attacking.

You need to show evidence of it happening with any other emotion than Fear, as the Marvel website, the handbooks, and the actual comics himself show. I have done the research, and research beyond just looking at the Wiki, your turn.



The Wiki is mistaken, the Marvel website and handbooks trump show, as does the countless comics I have researched, it is ridiculous that you actually are presenting otherwise. Official documents and comic events always trump the Wiki information, which is often times innacurate.

Alright we're just debating Man-Things powers, i'll leave it up to the voters to decide what's going here. now explain to me why "Winner=Kylun". You've spent all this time argueing about what Man-Thing can or cannot do, which I still believe is wrong, that you haven't showed any evidence of Kylun actually being able to win.

Man-Thing has Superstrength around 1000 pounds and the sword will just go right through him. The sound power won't do...anything. Once Man-Thing senses aggression he'll attack and being he is far more durable and stronger he'll come out with Kyluns head.

There an agruement without talking about any of these powers we're argueing about. So explain why Kyllun wins.

 

[primemover]

Alright we're just debating Man-Things powers, i'll leave it up to the voters to decide what's going here. now explain to me why "Winner=Kylun". You've spent all this time argueing about what Man-Thing can or cannot do, which I still believe is wrong, that you haven't showed any evidence of Kylun actually being able to win.

Man-Thing has Superstrength around 1000 pounds and the sword will just go right through him. The sound power won't do...anything. Once Man-Thing senses aggression he'll attack and being he is far more durable and stronger he'll come out with Kyluns head.

There an agruement without talking about any of these powers we're argueing about. So explain why Kyllun wins.

I actually did, twice, you didn't read close enough I guess, here, I will quote me for you:

From my opening post:

Kylun's swords are what turns this battle, as they are mystical in nature and can affect and dispel magicks upon contact, and as it's mystical energies that powers Man-Thing and his swamp construct body, these weapons would tear him apart with ease, and then block Man-Things ability to reconstruct himself the same way. Since the Man-Thing has no soul, and is basically only matter, Kyluns swords would affect him.

The proof of this is in Excalibur #48 where Kylun easily destroys mystical constructs made of rock created by a Necrom mystic.

and now from my rebuttal:

Kyluns swords have proven to dispel magicks, and cleave through even the toughest elements like stone or metals, these things and Man-Thing being away from the Nexus will prove his undoing. Kylun would have no problem cutting off any part of Man-Thing that attacks him, as Kylun is a master swordsman and has fought quicker and tougher foes, over time he will tire Man-Thing ultimately leaving him in need of being replenished to continue, which cannot happen.

And again, he's not in a swamp environment, so the vegetation will not help him, unless you can prove that The Raft is a swamp environment.

 

[Hellstormer]

Being that Man-Thing isn't a sentient being he doesn't comprehend things like exhaustion. The swords really won't do anything to a giant pile of mud and moss. Trust me no matter how sharp a sword is and how good the swordsman a gaitn pile of mud and moss and plants is hard to cut through, don't believe me? Fine go outside get a nice pil of mud, cover it in leaves that let get some moss to grow on it, come back in a day and try to cut with it. Mud will slow down the blade the the moss will just flatout stop it. If thee's a deep enough cut and if Kylun's still alive Man-Thing can just push together the cut becuase he's basically just muck.

Booyah!

Winner=Man-Thing

 

[primemover]

Being that Man-Thing isn't a sentient being he doesn't comprehend things like exhaustion. The swords really won't do anything to a giant pile of mud and moss. Trust me no matter how sharp a sword is and how good the swordsman a gaitn pile of mud and moss and plants is hard to cut through, don't believe me? Fine go outside get a nice pil of mud, cover it in leaves that let get some moss to grow on it, come back in a day and try to cut with it. Mud will slow down the blade the the moss will just flatout stop it. If thee's a deep enough cut and if Kylun's still alive Man-Thing can just push together the cut becuase he's basically just muck.

Kyluns swords can cut through stone, ceramic and metals with ease, so your case here holds no water.

Here the sword cuts through ceramic tile, and whatever else this wall is made of with little effort:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excalibur_046_p07.jpg

Here the swords cut through creatures made of rock/stone, also with little effort:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excalibur_048_p16.jpg

Here the sword cuts the arm off a Sentinel with ease:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excaliber-67-Page25.jpg

 

[Hellstormer]

Kyluns swords can cut through stone, ceramic and metals with ease, so your case here holds no water.

Here the sword cuts through ceramic tile, and whatever else this wall is made of with little effort:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excalibur_046_p07.jpg

Please I could cut ceramic.

Here the swords cut through creatures made of rock/stone, also with little effort:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excalibur_048_p16.jpg

They look like mud whereas Man-Thing is mud, plants, moss, other various stuff.

Here the sword cuts the arm off a Sentinel with ease:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/roc4u/Excaliber-67-Page25.jpg

Who hasn't cut off a sentinel arm?

 

[primemover]

Kylun vs. The Man-Thing - rebuttal

You are being really petty here and not understanding what I am showing you, I will show you since you seem either unwilling or unable to understand.

Please I could cut ceramic.

Take another look at what's going on in this scan. This sword is thrust through the wall, as deep as halfway up the sword, and it effortlessly cuts through the ceramic tile and whatever is underneat it, which includes plaster and wood, and since this is a bathroom it probably contains metal pipes.

Now consider the type of strike here, it's a swipe by the sword, not a stab, or a hammer thrust, or even a sawing mostion, but a swift swipe, a swipe that continues through and shows no matter of slowing down.

Now you say you could cut through ceramic, the only way you could do this is with a diamond tipped ceramic rotational saw with teeth powered by a very strong motor, and even then it takes more than just a swift swipe of this saw. You try this with a machete and all you could do was crack the surface of the first few tiles as it would stop, embedded in the wall.

One more thing, this scan also shows his sword slicing through porcelain, which is an amazing feat in itself.

They look like mud whereas Man-Thing is mud, plants, moss, other various stuff.

Here are a few additional scans showing that it is indeed rock, or at least a combination of rock and earth, they are fighting:

Who hasn't cut off a sentinel arm?

Doesn't matter, this does show without a doubt that Kyluns sword can easily slice through these tough metal robots, which is without a doubt tougher than swamp matter.

These blades are akin to lightsabers, they can cut through virtually anything.

Winner: Kylun

 

[Hellstormer]

Kylun vs. The Man-Thing - rebuttal

You are being really petty here

I'M being petty? When you wouldn't even let me use the bios on wiki? The Marvel.com bios can be editted just as easily as the wiki ones so its not like they're more trustworthy.

and not understanding what I am showing you, I will show you since you seem either unwilling or unable to understand.

Great now you're insulting my intellect, fantastic.

Take another look at what's going on in this scan. This sword is thrust through the wall, as deep as halfway up the sword, and it effortlessly cuts through the ceramic tile and whatever is underneat it, which includes plaster and wood, and since this is a bathroom it probably contains metal pipes.

Now consider the type of strike here, it's a swipe by the sword, not a stab, or a hammer thrust, or even a sawing mostion, but a swift swipe, a swipe that continues through and shows no matter of slowing down.

Now you say you could cut through ceramic, the only way you could do this is with a diamond tipped ceramic rotational saw with teeth powered by a very strong motor, and even then it takes more than just a swift swipe of this saw. You try this with a machete and all you could do was crack the surface of the first few tiles as it would stop, embedded in the wall.

One more thing, this scan also shows his sword slicing through porcelain, which is an amazing feat in itself.

It wouldn't be that hard, that may not even be ceramic, I've seen bathrooms that have a plastic coating, even if it is ceramic I had to cut through ceramic tiles during my ninjaken listens. Ceramic is fairly easy to cut if your swift enough, drywall is even easier, and wood can be split with my foot. And he didn't cut through the porceline it looks like he just knocked off the top part.

Here are a few additional scans showing that it is indeed rock, or at least a combination of rock and earth, they are fighting:

I dunno they may call them rock creatures but the way they're moving looks like clay.

Doesn't matter, this does show without a doubt that Kyluns sword can easily slice through these tough metal robots, which is without a doubt tougher than swamp matter.

There is difference though, metal has nothing in the way to hinder the blade mud and sludge on the other hand slow it down enormously and pull the momentum from it. If he somehow manages to make a cut Man-Thing can just push himself back together. And there's nothing stopping Man-Thing from disarming Kylun, he easily overpowers him in strength and size.

These blades are akin to lightsabers, they can cut through virtually anything.

If you say so.

 

[wiegeabo]

Omega Red vs Emma Frost

Prep-time favors Emma. Omega Red probably know about Emma, or can get some information on her. Emma has the X-Databases full of their encounters with Omega to work from.

This is a very tough match for Omega. Emma is a very powerful telepath, and Omega is vulnerable to mental attacks. So, before touching on this problem, there are a number of ways that Omega can beat Emma when telepathy isn't involved. And this would be if Emma was in diamond form.

In diamond form, Emma doesn't have access to her telepathy. But she is virtually indestructible, doesn't need food or water, and has increased strength. The problem in this form is that it won't stop Omega from killing her (and Omega has no problem killing. It's what he was made to do.)

If Emma breathes while diamond, Omega's pheromones will kill her. If not, he can just wrap her in his carbonadium tenticles and drain the life force from her. Or he can just crush her into diamond dust with his tenticles. (It's possible because she was once destroyed by a diamond bullet, and carbonadium is stronger than diamond because it's a 'weaker' form of adamantium)

So tackling Emma in diamond form is no problem for Omega. The problem he faces is that Emma tends to use her telepathy first. And this is where location helps Omega immensely.


The Raft is designed to be a prison for super powered individuals. It contains technologies and designs to counter super powers. Whether it be super strength, energy wielding, teleportation, or telepathy.

And there's evidence that this technology is not just confined to cells. Otherwise an escaped prisoner (like a teleporter) would likely be able to free
themselves in no time. No, the designers of the Raft incorporated these defenses throughout the entire structure. That's why every wall is lined with adamantium and not just the cell walls.

So every wall likely has the ability to counter super powers. This would include telepathy. Meaning that Emma's telepathy would be limited to line of sight. She couldn't sense or influence Omega from the other side of the wall, or even around a corner, because the very walls themselves would stop her telepathic probes.

What does this mean for Omega? It buys him the time he needs to find a control room and use Raft defenses against Emma. Or track her on the monitors and ambush her. Omega could then hide around the corner and spring on Emma as she passes by, hitting her with his death spores and/or tentacles before she has a chance to control him.

And if she did get control of him in that split second, it would be too late because he'd be so close. She'd either die from the spores or tentacles or have to protect herself by going into diamond form. If she dies, her control over Omega falls, and he wins. If she goes into diamond form, she's might be protected from his spores, but again she loses control over him. And, as stated above, he can beat her if she's in diamond form. And he'd be so close, she couldn't risk going back to human form to attack him mentally.


So, what would normally be a tough, if not unwindable, battle for Omega, turn into a fight that favors him. All because of the good luck of a location draw offsetting the bad luck of an opponent draw.


Omega Red wins.

 

[primemover]

Kylun vs. The Man-Thing: final rebuttal

I'M being petty? When you wouldn't even let me use the bios on wiki? The Marvel.com bios can be editted just as easily as the wiki ones so its not like they're more trustworthy. Great now you're insulting my intellect, fantastic.

That was not my intention, but you seem to ignore any of my debate points and barely even refute them except for witty put downs. In the previous posts of mine many other things I have mentioned were ignored too.

As I said IN CONJUNCTION to pointing out the Marvel.com website is that they reflect the handbooks, which proves the information I was pointing to be official.

You are right the marvel.com bios can be edited, and it looks like they have been edited by you in the past, so I find it even more frustrating that you seem to be pushing information that even a website you helped to add information to says otherwise.

It wouldn't be that hard, that may not even be ceramic, I've seen bathrooms that have a plastic coating, even if it is ceramic I had to cut through ceramic tiles during my ninjaken listens. Ceramic is fairly easy to cut if your swift enough, drywall is even easier, and wood can be split with my foot. And he didn't cut through the porceline it looks like he just knocked off the top part.

So, you have cut through a wall that includes many tiles adhered to an actual wall with grout, two by fours and metal plumbing pipes, and cut through them like a hot knife through butter?

Or did you actually smack a single tile not attached to anything, and see it break apart in two peices?

There is a difference between these two feats.

I dunno they may call them rock creatures but the way they're moving looks like clay.

The comic calls them 'rock', his sword cuts easily through these creatures made of 'rock'. This is canon, what you 'see' this material as is irrelevent.

It's like saying I should be able to use Bounty paper towels to absorb a Green Lanterns constructs because it 'looks' like green water!

There is difference though, metal has nothing in the way to hinder the blade mud and sludge on the other hand slow it down enormously and pull the momentum from it.

I can't believe you actually say 'metal has nothing in the way to hinder the blade', especially when we are talking about Sentinels, who are more than just aluminum foil filled with air.

If he somehow manages to make a cut Man-Thing can just push himself back together. And there's nothing stopping Man-Thing from disarming Kylun, he easily overpowers him in strength and size.

First thing, in my previous posts I told you why he won't be able to reform himself as quickly as he usually does, but I will repeat. These are magic blades that have the power of disrupting magical powers, since The Man-Thing is a chemical/MAGICAL construct of swamp matter, this magic disrupting quality of the swords will hinder that from happening, and over time this will be his undoing.

Second thing, The Man Thing is a lumbering, mindless creature, who would know nothing of 'disarming' an opponent, and in the comics he has shown no feat of the sort and just swipes and punches at people. Kylun also is a master swordsman who has faced hordes of creatures great and small from a multi-verse of foes, and of all the comics I have seen of him(90% of them), he has yet to be disarmed or have anything close to it happen to him.

This will probably be my last post on this match, most of the time I am repeating myself and I don't believe I can add anything new.

Winner: Kylun

 

[Hellstormer]

Kylun vs. The Man-Thing: final rebuttal



That was not my intention, but you seem to ignore any of my debate points and barely even refute them except for witty put downs. In the previous posts of mine many other things I have mentioned were ignored too.

As I said IN CONJUNCTION to pointing out the Marvel.com website is that they reflect the handbooks, which proves the information I was pointing to be official.

You are right the marvel.com bios can be edited, and it looks like they have been edited by you in the past, so I find it even more frustrating that you seem to be pushing information that even a website you helped to add information to says otherwise.

I'll freely admit I editted the Marvel.com bios to make a point. These bios are made by people meaning they're no more dependable.

So, you have cut through a wall that includes many tiles adhered to an actual wall with grout, two by fours and metal plumbing pipes, and cut through them like a hot knife through butter?

Or did you actually smack a single tile not attached to anything, and see it break apart in two peices?

There is a difference between these two feats.

Three tiles stacked on top of eachother is what I cut through, there's no indication that he cut through anything more then that.

The comic calls them 'rock', his sword cuts easily through these creatures made of 'rock'. This is canon, what you 'see' this material as is irrelevent.

I'm not denying that they are rock, I'm just saying they're not like a rock outside that's hard. If these were solid rock they couldn't move.

I can't believe you actually say 'metal has nothing in the way to hinder the blade', especially when we are talking about Sentinels, who are more than just aluminum foil filled with air.

You just stated aluminum foil with air, I take it that your understand how weak the sentinel frame is and how easily it can be cut.

First thing, in my previous posts I told you why he won't be able to reform himself as quickly as he usually does, but I will repeat. These are magic blades that have the power of disrupting magical powers, since The Man-Thing is a chemical/MAGICAL construct of swamp matter, this magic disrupting quality of the swords will hinder that from happening, and over time this will be his undoing.

I need you to do something for me, go get some clay from out side, cut it then smash it together. Notice something? It isn't a magical property its the basic makeup of his body. The swords won't stop him form picking his arm back up and smuching it back onto his torso, that is if the swords can even cut it off somehow.

Second thing, The Man Thing is a lumbering, mindless creature, who would know nothing of 'disarming' an opponent, and in the comics he has shown no feat of the sort and just swipes and punches at people. Kylun also is a master swordsman who has faced hordes of creatures great and small from a multi-verse of foes, and of all the comics I have seen of him(90% of them), he has yet to be disarmed or have anything close to it happen to him.

This will probably be my last post on this match, most of the time I am repeating myself and I don't believe I can add anything new.

You can say what you want to, the fact is if Kylun's agressive then Man-Thing will attack, he won't sit and wait to be cut up he'll take Kylun pick him up and throw him out into the ocean, then he'll go for some physical attacks until Kylun is no longer a threat.

Winner=Man-Thing

I'm done also this battle was just a huge waste of my life.

 

[primemover]

Winner=Swamp-Thing

Interesting typo, this could explain a few things.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Omega Red vs Emma Frost

Prep-time favors Emma. Omega Red probably know about Emma, or can get some information on her. Emma has the X-Databases full of their encounters with Omega to work from.

This is a very tough match for Omega. Emma is a very powerful telepath, and Omega is vulnerable to mental attacks. So, before touching on this problem, there are a number of ways that Omega can beat Emma when telepathy isn't involved. And this would be if Emma was in diamond form.

In diamond form, Emma doesn't have access to her telepathy. But she is virtually indestructible, doesn't need food or water, and has increased strength. The problem in this form is that it won't stop Omega from killing her (and Omega has no problem killing. It's what he was made to do.)

If Emma breathes while diamond, Omega's pheromones will kill her. If not, he can just wrap her in his carbonadium tenticles and drain the life force from her. Or he can just crush her into diamond dust with his tenticles. (It's possible because she was once destroyed by a diamond bullet, and carbonadium is stronger than diamond because it's a 'weaker' form of adamantium)

Some things I agree with, others I don't. First, I want to provide the following information regarding Omega Red's death spores:

Normal humans would be killed in a matter of seconds of exposure, while beings with heightened endurance can withstand it for minutes or hours.

Now, if the voters think back to appearances of Omega Red versus the X-Men, they do not fall down dead instantly. Emma Frost will not instantly die because these spores are around her. She has time to use her telepathy on Omega Red. (Plus, Omega Red isn't exactly stealthy. There will be no problem realizing when and where he's coming from.)

Now, I also disagree with the assessment of Omega Red crushing Emma Frost to "diamond dust." After all, look at the following site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Red

You see Omega Red's coils around Psylocke and Cyclops in two seperate photos. If he's so powerful with his coils to destroy a very, very durable Emma Frost in diamond form, why doesn't his coils destroy Psylocke and Cyclops? It's because the adamantium protects Omega Red from injury, but doesn't cause the injury to others as described above. Thus, Omega Red couldn't cause Emma Frost to turn to "diamond dust."

Now, as shown above, Emma Frost could do one of two things. She wait for Omega Red, as he'll easily be known where he is and take him out instantly. Or, she can be in diamond form, and when she finds him, turn to normal, knowing the death spores won't instantly effect her, and take over his mind. End of death spores, end of match.

The Raft is designed to be a prison for super powered individuals. It contains technologies and designs to counter super powers. Whether it be super strength, energy wielding, teleportation, or telepathy.

And there's evidence that this technology is not just confined to cells. Otherwise an escaped prisoner (like a teleporter) would likely be able to free
themselves in no time. No, the designers of the Raft incorporated these defenses throughout the entire structure. That's why every wall is lined with adamantium and not just the cell walls.

That is a lot of supposition. There is one major problem in this assumption. I quote the Official Handbook:

Emma is highly skilled in electronic theory and electronics and has learned how to build devices that can amplify psionic energy and utilize psionic energy for various effects. She devised the mechanism by which her Hellfire Club cohort Mastermind projected his illusions directly into the mind of the Phoenix Force.

So, if The Raft has such widely supposed defenses, Emma will be prepared to take care of them in prep-time. She can build an electronic device to negate the Raft's inhibitors. For, if Electro can knock out The Raft's power, I would suppose someone highly skilled in electronics and building such devices would have no problem at all.

So every wall likely has the ability to counter super powers. This would include telepathy. Meaning that Emma's telepathy would be limited to line of sight. She couldn't sense or influence Omega from the other side of the wall, or even around a corner, because the very walls themselves would stop her telepathic probes.

Really? How does every wall have this ability? Where was it shown? It isn't. This is a highly supposed theory that has no proof at all. (Plus, if this is true, every fighter who is fighting this week might not have any of their powers available, because the walls supposedly stop everyone's powers to not work.) Finally, Omega Red is made of adamantium, just as the walls; but, he's succeptable to telepathy. Thus, just because the walls are made of adamantium doesn't mean it stops telepathy.

What does this mean for Omega? It buys him the time he needs to find a control room and use Raft defenses against Emma. Or track her on the monitors and ambush her. Omega could then hide around the corner and spring on Emma as she passes by, hitting her with his death spores and/or tentacles before she has a chance to control him.

Omega Red isn't one to "hide around the corner." This is a big dude with flowing tentacles. He's made of metal, which will give him away as he walks on the ground. And, it's amazing how The Raft is suppose to stop Emma's powers, but Omega Red retains all of his. Basically, this argument takes a lot of suppositions, all trying to side with Omega Red. Meanwhile, I've shown proof of 1) Emma's ability to use her knowledge of electronics to disable any possible problems the Raft might have, 2) Omega's strength not being enough to reduce Emma to dust, and 3) Omega's death spores not being enough to instantly kill Emma, thus making her telepathy and control of Omega Red instant.

And if she did get control of him in that split second, it would be too late because he'd be so close.

Wrong. Think of all the times that the X-Men have faced Omega Red, and none of them have died from these death spores. (In fact, they might even have an antidote to his spores back at the mansion, and Emma will just inject herself before she leaves for battle.) Emma can simply make Omega take the death spores back into himself.

Either way, a nice opening debate; but, as noted, it's one filled with wishes and hopes for what could be or might be without any real proof. Omega's been supposed to be far more powerful than he really is, and Emma's powers and durability has been vastly decreased. It comes down to a "bad luck of the draw" for Omega Red, because he's facing his greatest weakness.

Winner = Emma Frost

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!!!

 

[Phaedrus45]

*Emma Frost

*Drax - (Wow, great match-up. But, I'd pick Drax to advance, if I were you. If Emma gets through, she'll have her hands full next round, definitely.)

*Kylun - (Great debate, if not a little heated. Prime convinced me, and remembering Kylun, the lack of vegetation in The Raft, and wondering if Man-Thing would be smart enough to find his way outside the raft, I have to give it to Kylun. This is just a bad location for Man-Thing.)

*Fandral - (You debate....)

 

[wiegeabo]

Omega Red
Drax
Kylun (I'm surprised I voted this. Usually nothing stops Man-Thing, but this time...)
Electro (Really wanted to vote for Fandral, but I'm not sure how he could get close enough to Electro in such relatively confined spaces)

 

[Hellstormer]

Emma
Man-Thing
Fandral
draxin