Legends of Tomorrow DC'S Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 Episode 2: "Pilot, Part 2"

[DigificWriter]

I've now seen both parts of the Pilot back-to-back now, and aside from some repetition in terms of the team deciding to keep going on with their mission TWICE (once in Part 1 and again in Part 2), I really liked both episodes.

Some of my favorite bits, done bullet-point style:
* Sara dissing the biker dude who tried to come on to her

* Sara deliberately and genuinely flirting with 70s!Stein

* Old!Stein drugging Jax

* Old!Stein yelling at 70s!Stein

* Jax and Old!Stein's conversation where Old!Stein realizes that he's still as arrogant as he ever was, in spite of having believed otherwise

* Snart claiming that he's not a hero, only to subtly prove otherwise a couple of times (taking out Chronos with the car, saving Kendra, and vowing to make Vandal Savage pay for killing Carter because "nobody messes with one of his crew")

* Aldus Boardman telling Carter and Kendra about them being his parents

* Ray and Oliver's conversation (Oliver was right to be cynical about Rip Hunter)

* Laurel and Sara's conversation, and Sara's reaction to the White Canary suit

* Jax and Old!Stein absorbing the nuclear explosion

* Rip showing Old!Stein the interaction between 70!Stein and 70s!Clarissa and admitting that he was being a bit harder on the team than he should have been

* The team working together to take on Chronos

* The team working together to take on Savage's goons

* Sara stealing 70s!Stein's pot

* Carter's death and Kendra's response to it

The Pilot really is better when viewed sequentially without a break in between, and does a really good job of setting up the premise and the characters (even if I could've done without Rip Hunter spending 3/4 of it being written as a lying arrogant *****ebag), and I can't wait to see what happens next.

 

[Guard82]

Great episode. Highly entertaining, and all the characters kept me engaged and enjoying everything.

 

[Seb]

Don't think so. A more apt euphemism would be that she can't decide between "thinking/talking about sex or actually having sex".

Forgive the nerdism.

I feel like this is bit too much of a stretch, and since Sara was the one to say it, as a confirmed bisexual, it seems far more likely to be meant the way Herolee's friend heard it (which was the same way I did, btw.)

Your reading of it makes for a more exact metaphor, but the bisexuality one is far more in line with the character, and this along with Sara hitting on the bikergirl in the first episode serve as a solid way to show her bisexuality to any non-Arrow viewers without beating us over the head with it.

 

[Reaver027]

This episode was much better than the first. It did not felt rushed at all.
And i am glad someone is gone for now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dead Hawkman, Sara/Snart being awesome and some actual time travel fun. Now this was more like it. I am so happy to say bye to that piece of wood known as Hawkman.

 

[zenith16]

Dead Hawkman, Sara/Snart being awesome and some actual time travel fun. Now this was more like it. I am so happy to say bye to that piece of wood known as Hawkman.

I'd look at the other posts about him still being in the show. he's not as gone as you'd like to think.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

Just finished this episode.
Seriously loving this show.

Don't get the hate for Hawkman at all.

 

[Snow Queen]

Well this was certainly more enjoyable than the first episode, particularly the stuff with Sara, Steins and Jackson.

I got a lot of satisfaction out of watching Hawkman die. Though I know it won't last.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I wasn't the biggest fan(Not that I really disliked them) of Heatwave and Cold on Flash, but I'm actually feeling like they might be my favorite characters in this show.heh

Heat wave especially has grown on me.

 

[Nathan]

One of the things I enjoyed the most about these two Episodes, is the relationship developing between Mick and Martin.

 

[Webhead2006]

ya for me too only have minor things. but having both parts now make for a better start off.

 

[metaphysician]

I am amused by Firestorm's continuation as "I am basically the most powerful superhuman on the planet." And yet he's not a plot breaker, because Stein and Jackson wouldn't ever want to stay permanently merged. It may be a small thing, but after years of Heroes, I always appreciate when TV writers put the work into incorporating a really powerful superhuman into the plot without using really obvious and dumb nerfs.

Also, I think the fundamental difference between Rip Hunter and Hawkman is that Rip Hunter was manipulative towards everyone, and his lies have a coherent rational end. He's not a *****e, he's just an arrogant bastard. Carter Hall, meanwhile, came off as the unwanted boyfriend who is socially clueless. Its just slimy.

 

[Mysteryman]

Glad they split the episodes in two.
It worked out better that way.

 

[Mikelus]

Don't get the hate for Hawkman at all.

Well, the writing and the acting could've been better, the actor lacking charisma didn't help either. Hawkman's death was unnecessary though, we barely knew the character and they already had enough reasons to go after Savage. Hopefully the clunky exposition is over, the series has the potential to do something unique, like revealing the potential future of several characters like Oliver, Barry, Laurel, Cisco, etc.

And last but not least, Legends had Laurel's best training session so far (with Sara), they should've done that on Arrow! Marc Guggenheim is an idiot for not giving Black Canary the respect the character deserves, at least Legends' showrunner, Phil Klemmer, does.

 

[kguillou]

I gotta sayn really enjoying the show far. I like this group as a team. In fact, I hope that if theres a season 2 we keep the same roster.

 

[DigificWriter]

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue I have with Laurel's handling is that Marc Guggenheim made the mistake of publicly agreeing with a vocal minority who didn't like Laurel, which has, I think, slowed down the development and evolution of her character. They really need to do for her what Legends is now going to be able to for Sara and once again make her more than just an Ensemble player.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue I have with Laurel's handling is that Marc Guggenheim made the mistake of publicly agreeing with a vocal minority who didn't like Laurel, which has, I think, slowed down the development and evolution of her character. They really need to do for her what Legends is now going to be able to for Sara and once again make her more than just an Ensemble player.

Nothing against MG, but he should stick to his obscure comics and novels.

People like Laurel again, more than before, and he insists on pushing his wheelicity fanfic.

 

[DigificWriter]

Somebody (it was either Guggenheim or Wendy Mericle) said that Laurel is going to have a big part to play in finally taking down Darhk, so we should see her start to get some more focus, which is a good thing.

However, I don't think it's fair to blame Laurel's current 'ensemble-ness' and lack of evolution on the Oliver/Felicity thing, at least not directly.

I think the problem lies in the fact that Laurel hasn't really been given any significant storylines outside of her involvement with Team Arrow since Sara's resurrection, which actually puts her in the same boat as Sara, who has pretty much always existed merely as a 'mirror' for her.

Legends is going to give Sara the chance to truly come into her own as a character, and I'm hoping that the rest of Arrow Season 4 will provide another chance for the same thing to happen for Laurel through whatever part she plays in Darhk's downfall.

 

[Cain]

I'm enjoying it despite loathing the actors that play Jax and Carter. Stein and the Rogues make it must see tv.

 

[Dark Raven]

The young Martin Stein didn't really sound British at all. He sounded like an American doing a bad impression.

I was just thinking how bland Carter Hall was, so not sad to see him go.

 

[the dmg]

Loved this episode.

Rogues, Sara, and Stein are the best, especially Stein and Rory. They're great in their interactions with each other. That action sequence at the arms deal was pretty good, especially the Atom stuff. Speaking of Atom, I really enjoyed Ray and Snart's interactions with each other at Savage's mansion. Each character is being utilized for they're talents pretty well and that's a good thing when characters get to shine with a big cast of characters. Stein learned to tread carefully when interacting with the past, not just with his earlier self but when he blew their cover to Savage about being from the future.

Loved the Dahrk cameo.

 

[godisawesome]

Loved this episode so much! The comedic talents of pretty much everyone in the cast go a long way towards making this show addictive and keeping you focused on the screen. I'd argue that, as much as I love the ensembles on both parent shows, this actually has the best total cast of the CWDCU. Cold and Heat Wave have a great combination of raw charisma and comedic timing, Ray and Sara balance genuine and sincere altruism with a great deal of charm, barber makes Stein the steady focal point of the show's acting, and even Savage got a bit more entertaining when they let him react to Stein's slip up over time travel.

The Hawks were the only kind of discardable thing of the episode. They just don't have quite as much going for them yet.

Not to derail the discussion, but the issue I have with Laurel's handling is that Marc Guggenheim made the mistake of publicly agreeing with a vocal minority who didn't like Laurel, which has, I think, slowed down the development and evolution of her character. They really need to do for her what Legends is now going to be able to for Sara and once again make her more than just an Ensemble player.

If I can comment on this and tie it into why I watch LoT while I'm still far behind in Arrow...

I think Laurel's problem is that they kind of lost what her character archetype was supposed to be twice. Season One Laurel was pretty clearly supposed to be a fairly "safe" (read: boring to me) combination of superhero love interest and CW female lead. And in spite of the actresses skill, that direction for the character wound up screwed; the unnecessary angst of having Ollie cheat on her and get her sis killed and family ruined made any romantic arc unbelievable on both an emotional and mental level. Yet they tried for it. There's a reason there's so few supporters for the show's Laurel and Olliver pairing; it felt like an ugly mix of predictable plot patterns and utterly contradictory backstory.

Then, instead of trying to rebuild Laurel into a hero in Season Two, they gave her a devolving life path. Simulataneously, they give us a Black Canary in Sara who's attitude, skills, and chemistry with the rest of the cast is pretty much exactly from the comics Birds of Prey. And that's the remaining issue for Laurel; they hit such a good home run on Sara as a Canary that everything they do to try and get Laurel back into her job feels like a cheaper echo of her.

I mean that; nothing about Laurel's development into Black Canary really ever felt natural, and I still feel the character was crippled by the early attempts to make her a CW female lead; they held back her action girl skills until they sped them up, and had to resort to fridging a strong character and kind of defaming her after she died with the whole "Sara was a killer" talk when the purpose of Sara's initial plot line was all about proving that wrong, to get her in the bLack Canary suit. And they can't really have her act like comic Black Canary that much because the character's backstory just doesn't fit that.

So, when I watch Sara on LoT, I see the charismatic Canary from Simone's Birds of Prey and have fun. And when I watch Arrow, I see this entirely original character named Laurel going on her own, somewhat less interesting path.

 

[Nathan]

So, when I watch Sara on LoT, I see the charismatic Canary from Simone's Birds of Prey and have fun. And when I watch Arrow, I see this entirely original character named Laurel going on her own, somewhat less interesting path.

That's exactly my stance on this whole situation as well.

They simply made it impossible to root for the Laurel/Ollie pairing with that entire cheating backstory, unless the only thing you enjoy about relationships is the drama, then like you said, they lost her archetype at least twice, and introduced Sara, who's everything you wanted the Canary to be. Laurel lost her entire purpose for existing right there. And even now that she has finally become the Black Canary, she just comes across like a cheap knockoff, an inferior imitation.

 

[Dark Raven]

It would've been funny if they had a few more hours, and Sara was told to keep the young Martin Stein entertained while the older one and Jefferson stole the device. Then older Stein could be horrified to learn that Sara had sex with his younger self.

 

[Nathan]

Am I the only one wondering how they traveled between Campus and Savage's hideout? Because it didn't look like they used the ship, since it was still parked near the Campus. Or how did Snart, Mick and Ray get to Savage's house? Also didn't seem like they got dropped off. The whole adventure started out with everyone traveling to Norway, then everyone went their separate ways, to locations that I don't thing were in walking distance.