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"Destructive Testing" Season 2: Episode 15 Discussion Thread

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Okay let's start with the high points. I like what the character of Miles Warren is bringing to the show this season. I see some great things down the road with him. You can already see that villainous potential with him telling Kraven he created Spiderman just to use him as a test subject. Master Planner....nuff said. They are adapting this classic story to a cartoon. Unlike some people here, I feel that the Peter, Gwen, and Liz triangle is moving at a decent pace. I don't think Peter and Gwen should be together this soon. There should be a buildup towards their relationship and there should be obstacles first. Remember this is all leading up to to an event that is as important as Uncle Ben's death. Give it time to play out.

The only problem I really had was Kraven's tranformation. Never was a Kraven fan but I did like him in the episode when he was human. I thought the beginning rocked and his first encounter with Spiderman. It was something different. He is an extremely confident hunter and he was deeply embarassed for the first time in his life when he failed to capture Spiderman. You see that obsession with Spiderman start to form. I wasn't really feeling the Thundercat Kraven. I like that Kraven relies on his own skills, weapons, and potions. What they did with Kraven was turn him into Puma. Not a fan of Ultimate Kraven. It's like turning Norman in a real Goblin monster. Another ultimate mistake.
 
They might as well have not done an Ulitmate Kraven. He's been a joke since the start and has shown up in all of two arcs in over 8 years. I know a lot of people dont care for Kraven but he's always been a favorite of mine.
 
yea the mutation angle was cool and all though it would have been nice if he stayed human looking and just got the powers of the animals. maybe peter will get his hands on some more of the gene cleanser in the future episodes and turn kraven back to a normal human or maybe just reverse the animal look.
I really hope he changes back but retains some of his enhanced abilities. Overall I did like Kraven's appearance. The fight scenes were great. Can't wait to see the new sinister six. Anyone thinks without Doc Ock to physically be with them that they will be at each other 's throats.
 
I've always wanted to see someone do a villain based story on how they all relate to each other. Some of the Six would be at each others throats and others would get along. I was kind of surprised in the MK:SM story to see Toomes and Dillon go to a brothel together. I wouldnt have thought Max and Adrian would have much in common. The failed electrician and the genius engineer? Buddies?
 
Kraven would probably have daydreams about mounting Rhino's head on his wall and using Sandman as a litterbox. Shocker got kicked off the team because Electro felt like he was the only one who should be making shock puns.
 
After an action packed and thrilling Season Two debut last week, the storyline of SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN continues with this episode, "Destructive Testing". In it, another classic Lee/Ditko villain makes his debut, Kraven the Hunter. Will it be as successful as others, or will it reveal a chink in Wiesman, Cook & Co.'s Spider-Armor?

From this point on, there will be heavy spoilers.

What I like about SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN is that while it seeks ways to update and modernize many of the trappings of the Spider-verse, from character ethnicity (in the name of diversity) or technology that wasn't around even 5-10 years ago, they always try to go with the original source material as often as possible. In many ways they aren't eager to mine pop culture references to do this, as Bendis sometimes did in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. There, Kraven was a Reality TV star. While it still works now, in a decade it will date him. This episode, however, sees no need for such trappings for Kraven. Sergei Kravenoff is a big game hunter in Africa, pure and simple. He has a lover in Calypso (who never looked hotter) and enough raw physical prowess to be able to wrestle a lion and even a charging rhino to the ground. Obsessed with the ultimate big game, when Calypso (played by Angela Bryant) informs him of a "mysterious figure" alerting him to the presence of Spider-Man in NYC, Kravenoff naturally sets out for the "ultimate game".

Simple, pretty much the same origin as the original ASM #15, save some minor details and including Calypso from the start, something the 90's cartoon from John Semper & Co. didn't accomplish as well. Kraven is played by Eric Vesbit, who sounds fine with the rogue's deep Russian accent, although his tendency to refer to himself in third person was a bit annoying after a while, but fortunately Josh Keaton's Spidey mocks it, so I could swallow it.

As always, the life of Peter Parker seems to be just as vital if not more so than that of Spidey. Still trying to find a way to talk to Gwen about their feelings privately, Liz Allen is making her crush more apparent, cuddling with Peter after acing a Biology test due to his tutoring. While this causes Gwen to become more distant, Peter finds himself flush with the idea of Liz the cheerleader, and seeming girlfriend of Flash Thompson, genuinely liking him. Alanna Ubach has played Liz for a while but is really getting more to do with the role and she's growing on me. Peter finds himself caught between two girls; while he seems to prefer Gwen, he's still a teenage guy smitten by the idea of a cheerleader liking him. Don't a lot of us wish we had such problems in high school.

Kraven manages to examine and battle Spider-Man, but while giving it a good go with his skills, spears, bolas and knives, he ultimately is no match for Spidey, who thrashes him and leaves him webbed to a street-lamp. However, having gotten a sample of Spider-Man's scent from a bit of torn costume (the thermal quip was great) allows his lion to track the web-slinger's scent.

This leads him to Dr. Conners' lab, where Peter is interning again (and where Debra Whitman, who is African American in this show, is introduced). Dr. Miles Warren, introduced last episode and played by Brian George, sees opportunity to test out his mutagenic serum that Conners wants buried when Kraven arrives. Enhancing Kraven with DNA from various jungle beasts, Kraven gains superior strength, speed, stamina, as well as claws, and a feline-human body.

Honestly, this was part of the two absurd things about the episode, even for this show. One was Kraven walking his lion around the city on a leash and not being arrested for it; that bit would have been goofy in the 1981 Spider-Man cartoon and was no less goofy in this 2009 version. The second was turning Kraven into a "Tiger-Man". There seemed no reason to do that beyond the fact that "animal toys" sell well for kids. While some could say it was an attempt at the Ultimate Kraven, who sometimes turns into a feral beast, I thought it was a step too far. Cheeks Galloway's original design for Kraven was spot-on perfect, but the Tiger-Kraven just seemed too...pandering to kids for me. Perhaps it was an attempt to merge Kraven with Spidey's feline adversary the Puma, much as the show "merged" Shocker and Montana? While I found myself getting used to that, I am not overly thrilled with Tiger-Kraven.

On the positive side, the battle between Spider-Man and Tiger-Kraven across the city streets, a museum, and eventually Central Park were pretty damned entertaining. Spider-Man was clever with his webs, but when it got down to it, just threw Kraven a good ol' fashioned butt-kicking. I am thrilled that this show has given us a fighting Spider-Man who can lay some punches to the face as well as crafty web and acrobat moves. I am extra thrilled that unlike the MTV Spider-Man from 2003, who also kicked butt, this show has better writing.

Still, the MTV show had one thing for it, and that was making Kraven awesome. While this show is truer to the comics, the ultimate evolution into a Tiger-Man was a major con for an episode full of pro's. But, that doesn't make the episode bad; that just means instead of an A+ grade, it has to settle for an A-, which is still more than fine.

The episode ends with Calypso revealing that their "benefactor" is the Master Planner, who is assembling a new team of rogues. The fact that Peter MicNicol was voicing Master Planner was a major sign; another that he is assembling a new Sinister Six, and of course Dr. Octopus always led that group. Tiger-Man or not, what we may get is the first animated version of the OFFICIAL team roster of Doc Ock, Vulture, Sandman, Mysterio, Kraven, and Electro. That of course means Shocker and Rhino departing the team; considering Rhino's dumb as a post and Shocker may decide to stick to paid gigs, that is more than reasonable (plus, Shocker's gauntlets proved to provide some hassles the last time they battled Spidey). The big question, of course, would be how could Spider-Man hope to have a rematch with the Six when he needed the alien symbiote to basically fight them for him the last time?

I liked the reference to the Black Cat, as well as Peter's black eye; it showed that not all fights come away without injury. It was cool seeing him comfort Liz at Flash's bedside, and even some concern for the lug, who has come through for Peter at least once last season (giving him a speech that helped him realize the symbiote was making him darker and driving his friends away).

The next episode promises the return of the Sinister Six and may answer some of these questions, as the show may still be planning stories in 3-4 episode "arcs" (with lingering subplots). It is a format that is working brilliantly.

While an episode with one major hairball in it, this still was a great, vibrant and entertaining episode to the best Spider-Man cartoon yet, which may go down as one of the best comic book cartoons, ever. Bring on the Six next week!
 
As I understand it, Rhino is still a part of the Six in the next episode. Maybe Shocker too. I think Ock is sitting it out and manipulating them all from a distance.
 
Ock is only pulling strings as Master Planner. Rhino is basically taking Ock's place as the other five will be the original members. There is no Shocker.
 
Kraven would probably have daydreams about mounting Rhino's head on his wall and using Sandman as a litterbox. Shocker got kicked off the team because Electro felt like he was the only one who should be making shock puns.
Unlike the first time because of the leadership of Doc Ock, I see this group turning on one another because of clashing egos, personal motives and how to deal with Spiderman.
 
I didn't see favorable reviews about the episode, so I thought it was gonna suck. But...I liked. I liked overall.
The only thing I disliked was Kraven turning into Lion-Man, literally. I hope he comes back to normal. He was already good before turning into a freak.
Once again, a 90's villain is better. Kraven was so cool and more interesting in the 90's series and his episode was awesome. I hope I won't be disappointed by upcoming villains, and I'll certainly miss Shocker and Ock in the next Six.
7/10
 
I didn't see favorable reviews about the episode, so I thought it was gonna suck. But...I liked. I liked overall.
The only thing I disliked was Kraven turning into Lion-Man, literally. I hope he comes back to normal. He was already good before turning into a freak.
Once again, a 90's villain is better. Kraven was so cool and more interesting in the 90's series and his episode was awesome. I hope I won't be disappointed by upcoming villains, and I'll certainly miss Shocker and Ock in the next Six.
7/10
People not liking Thundercat Kraven seems to be the general consensus. I too liked him better in his human form.
 
As I understand it, Rhino is still a part of the Six in the next episode. Maybe Shocker too. I think Ock is sitting it out and manipulating them all from a distance.

Yeah, I got that drift after reading an episode synopsis. Oh, well.
 
Unlike the first time because of the leadership of Doc Ock, I see this group turning on one another because of clashing egos, personal motives and how to deal with Spiderman.
This probably will be how they are defeated. Egos.
My first bet is Sandman.
 
I agree that seeing Morbius in this show would be fantastic. As I have said, I did enjoy him in the 90' show and I thought he was awesome, but I really think this show can do him better justice.
 
Unlike the first time because of the leadership of Doc Ock, I see this group turning on one another because of clashing egos, personal motives and how to deal with Spiderman.

True. I imagine when it comes down to it, Rhino and Kraven might have differing view points on who will ultimately finish sPidey off. Sandman, Mysterio, Electro & Vulture might also hate the webhead's guts, but are driven by other motives whereas these too are obsessed with revenge and ego.

Also, Dread, sPot on review as always but I wouldn't call Rhino "dumb as a post". While no scholar by any means he's got the street smarts of an experienced thug and is probably the most intelligent incarnation of this character to date. (minus that time in the comics when he became a super genius for an issue)

And I agree about the Lion, though it WAS fun to see. As I mentioned a few pages back, it would have been a pain getting a lion through customs much less walking around the city. It reminded me of Harley Quinn rollerblading around Gotham with her hyenas. Also, Lions have all the tracking prowess of a Chihuahua and smell things through the Jacobson's organ on the roofs of their mouths like so.
funny-pictures-happy-faced-lion.jpg
 
Eh, I got my fill of Morbius in the 90's show. He showed up more often than Videoman did in SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS. No villain sucked as much space and focus than Morbius did, and FoxKids network really neutered him. While I am sure this crew could handle him better, he's not a villain I am eager to see.

That title is reserved for Scorpion. :)
 
True. I imagine when it comes down to it, Rhino and Kraven might have differing view points on who will ultimately finish sPidey off. Sandman, Mysterio, Electro & Vulture might also hate the webhead's guts, but are driven by other motives whereas these too are obsessed with revenge and ego.

Also, Dread, sPot on review as always but I wouldn't call Rhino "dumb as a post". While no scholar by any means he's got the street smarts of an experienced thug and is probably the most intelligent incarnation of this character to date. (minus that time in the comics when he became a super genius for an issue)

And I agree about the Lion, though it WAS fun to see. As I mentioned a few pages back, it would have been a pain getting a lion through customs much less walking around the city. It reminded me of Harley Quinn rollerblading around Gotham with her hyenas. Also, Lions have all the tracking prowess of a Chihuahua and smell things through the Jacobson's organ on the roofs of their mouths like so.

Thanks.

I do agree, this version of Rhino is the best we've seen so far in a cartoon. He's an enjoyable "pug" villain and he is voiced well. Still, he's hardly a genius either.

And yeah, the leashed lion part was a bit absurd, even for this show. But, I did like the episode as a whole. Tiger-Kraven or not, that final battle was damn exciting!
 
Eh, I got my fill of Morbius in the 90's show. He showed up more often than Videoman did in SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS. No villain sucked as much space and focus than Morbius did, and FoxKids network really neutered him. While I am sure this crew could handle him better, he's not a villain I am eager to see.

That title is reserved for Scorpion. :)

I actually JUST MADE a short Morbius film which is basically him asking a girl out...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50728564
 
yea greg and company like i and others have said probably would be able to do the character more justice then the censors at fox did to the character in the 90s series. Hopefully kraven does mutate back to human form with the enhanced abilities later in the season/series.
 
This is THE ultimate absolute spidey show ever made. I hope we get a 3rd, 4th, 5th seasons and why not even more.

While Spectacular Spider-Man is a great series so far and has plenty of potential to go even farther to reach BTAS. It's is by no means the ultimate spidey series . Not yet anyways . the title still belongs to Spider-Man : The Animated Series .

TSSM greatest strengths so far are

1. The Amazing animated fight choreography between Spider-Man and his Rogue Gallery Of Villains .

2. The Wise Cracks by spidey

3. Nods to the Comics, to The film trilogy & previous Spidey series

4. Story of The Character journey of Peter Parker's journey from Teenager to Adult

5. Music

6. Consistency with Continuity
 
While Spectacular Spider-Man is a great series so far and has plenty of potential to go even farther to reach BTAS. It's is by no means the ultimate spidey series . Not yet anyways . the title still belongs to Spider-Man : The Animated Series .

TSSM greatest strengths so far are

1. The Amazing animated fight choreography between Spider-Man and his Rogue Gallery Of Villains .

2. The Wise Cracks by spidey

3. Nods to the Comics, to The film trilogy & previous Spidey series

4. Story of The Character journey of Peter Parker's journey from Teenager to Adult

5. Music

6. Consistency with Continuity
All very great points and i totally agree with you. SSM is doing things alot better in many many ways then 90s series ever did. And i still do like 90s series alot. But viewing it now with knowing how tv shows work and all that. 90s series had so many things wrong with it where as ssm has alot more right. Yes they take liberties on some things like tiger kraven, monata shocker, etc.... But in the end it works great for the show.
 
The more I think about it, the mutation of Kraven actually makes sense. I mean, I didn't like how sudden it was, but as strong as Kraven is, he's still a human and Spidey has an edge above him. So, while unpopular, it also makes sense.

Except Kraven has super human strength in the comics....
 
Thank you very much. I was, too to be honest, but I was thrilled that Greg and Vic allowed me to try out for it. We're all hoping for more seasons, too. :)

amazing spectacular show cheeks. I was skeptical abt the art direction you guys went with before watching the show but i just love it now.

This is THE ultimate absolute spidey show ever made. I hope we get a 3rd, 4th, 5th seasons and why not even more.

I must admit though i was let down by kraven becoming half a lion i really wish he would regain his human form (which is badass) and keep the mutant power.

i was never a fan of ultimate kraven.
 
Thank you very much. I was, too to be honest, but I was thrilled that Greg and Vic allowed me to try out for it. We're all hoping for more seasons, too. :)

"Cheeks" Galloway? Awesome! Yeah, I'm getting a kick out of your designs. I've followed your work since the HELLBOY ANIMATED DVD's and you always come up with good stuff. My fingers are crossed for a 3rd season and beyond, too!

I actually JUST MADE a short Morbius film which is basically him asking a girl out...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=50728564

Interesting. The "vampire voice" you do is pretty cool.
 
All very great points and i totally agree with you. SSM is doing things alot better in many many ways then 90s series ever did. And i still do like 90s series alot. But viewing it now with knowing how tv shows work and all that. 90s series had so many things wrong with it where as ssm has alot more right. Yes they take liberties on some things like tiger kraven, monata shocker, etc.... But in the end it works great for the show.

Many of restrictions on The 90's series was due to the Fox kids network . But even with all the restrictions overall Spider-Man : TAS had 5 awesome seasons.

The Spectacular Spider-Man is still the new kid on the block, it had a great Season 1 . Let see how it does in Season 2 and beyond .

Many have accepted this series because it's a new fresh spin to the classic mythology of our beloved Web-Slinger . (Who currently in the comics isn't doing that well thanks to Joe Quesada "BND" load of bull. I hope someone restores spidey back to his former greatness)



 

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